[cite]Posted By: Valley11[/cite]I think it's fairly obvious what most fans want from a kit - simplicity.
We basically want a plain-ish red shirt with white shorts (perhaps some red trim) and reds socks.
It's all the naff collars (that rubbish 'vicar' collar a couple of seasons back), swishes and asymmetric lines that balls it up!
It was "fairly obvious" to you that no one liked the new kits but that proved not to be the case. It would be my preference but don't assume that everyone thinks the same as you.
F
Dear Valley 11
Thanks for your enquiry.
A change of the planned new kits is completely out of the question given
that new kit designs take months of planning with a kit supplier ahead
of a public release. Selected designs are put forward by, in our case
Joma, and are then agreed by the Board, the Management, and the First
Team Manager.
The design of professional sports kits at our level is a commercially
sensitive business and extremely time crucial, and Joma would not be
willing to show four exclusive designs for our Professional First Team
to the general public for other brands to potentially copy.
I really urge you to wait until the kits are released, and you can see
them close at hand, on the pitch, or even in-store, before you decide
that these kits are not to your liking. The photographs released were to
announce our new sponsor, JD Sports, and a proper kit launch will be
staged shortly.
Thank you for your communication. I hope this explains the situation.
Kind Regards
Michael Rea
Head of Retail
as you said Valley 11 it was a full and speedy response.
Just a couple of things Henry - how did you get hold of the email I sent Michael Rea?
I thought my email was a private exchange between myself and Mr Rea? Also, I had the courtesy to ask Mr Rea if I could post his response on Charlton Life - so why didn’t you when it came to my original email – presumably you have my contact details from the email I sent Mr Rea? And why did you feel the need to post my email to M.R. in the first place? I'd already posted his reply in another thread.
Secondly, you seem to be a bit aggrieved ever since I brought up the subject of kit change/choice/design and I can't work out why. I merely offered the suggestion but the tone of your emails seem to be that I'm insane or shouldn't be questioning the new designs. Why's that? Surely I'm allowed to voice my opinion. Admittedly I've made one sweeping statement with "fairly obvious" - but by the mere use of the word 'fairly' and 'most fans' I've kept the suggestion open. I just don't get the animosity. I'm a whole hearted backer of all things CAFC - I just don’t like the kit. From your responses anyone would think I'm the new Reams!
You are quite right and I apologise. I've deleted your e-mail.
I thought it was useful as it puts the reply in context but you are quite right that I should have asked you first.
I posted the reply in this thread as it follows on from the discussion so makes more sense.
I'm not "aggrieved" just pointing out that you are assuming that people don't like the new kit and what they would prefer when you have no evidence for that and in fact the poll and the response to your first statement have proved that it was an incorrect assumption.
Sorry if you read that as animosity as it wasn't. If you read back you'll see I took the effort to reply in full to your post and gave you Mike Rea's e-mail.
You are right that you are allowed to voice YOUR opinion. However by claiming that your views are shared by most or all fans on no evidence you are going beyond voicing YOUR opinion.
Apology accepted - but it does concern me that a private email to someone at Charlton has been divulged to you. That seems a touch suspect to me. I know you're a trustworthy fellow and a decent chap - you helped get a message to Bristol City-supporting friends of mine broadcast over The Valley tannoy last season, which was much appreciated. But Mr Rea shouldn't be passing my private email on to you, surely?
And I take your point about the 'shared views' - but I've never claimed to know the opinion of 'all' fans.
[cite]Posted By: Valley11[/cite]Apology accepted - but it does concern me that a private email to someone at Charlton has been divulged to you. That seems a touch suspect to me. I know you're a trustworthy fellow and a decent chap - you helped get a message to Bristol City-supporting friends of mine broadcast over The Valley tannoy last season, which was much appreciated.
But Mr Rea shouldn't be passing my private email on to you, surely?
And I take your point about the 'shared views' - but I've never claimed to know the opinion of 'all' fans.
You did say "I'll stick my neck out here but I reckon most, if not all, supporters would prefer the kit above - "
OK it is a semantic point but that is normally meant as all fans or very close. In any case the your were speaking about, at the very least, "most" fans.
To be fair your e-mail did mention me by name and it was on a topic that you yourself had said in the e-mail both you and I had been discussing. Personally in those circumstances I don't think Mike was in the wrong to copy me in although, as I've said, I was wrong to post it here without asking you.
Well it's nice to see that peace has broken out at last..:-).
Getting back to the question of whether the fans should be asked to vote on which design they favour, I am all for democracy and for the involvement fo fans but I think leaving this decision to fans is not a very sensible approach and given that Valley11 is already saying that quite likes them now suggests that our first thoughts do not always represent our settled views. Also as has been pointed out by the club, you really need to see them at close hand to make an informed judgement. For something as commercially important as this should be left to the clubs officials to decide, (and of course you would expect the manager to have a say, otherwise you may end up with the Man U grey kit scenario).
I would imagine the real reason is that when you are a prem club you can call the shots a bit more, when not you have to be 'more flexible' to the requirements of the manufacturer, or am I a just being a cynical git again?
[cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]I would imagine the real reason is that when you are a prem club you can call the shots a bit more, when not you have to be 'more flexible' to the requirements of the manufacturer, or am I a just being a cynical git again?
If anything, i'd say the reverse.
Love how the spin machine creeps in !! Shirts get a mixed reaction on their first outing, and all of a sudden its 'oh no, you didn't think that was the shirts did you ? That was just to announce the sponsor, honest. Oh you won't see the shirts for another couple of weeks'
Really ? Because it looked like a shirt launch to me !!
What Lookie said, no matter what options or how people vote, you still get people whining away.
The last set of banners were a prime example, despite asking no one designed anything, then when it goes to a vote, people moan about the designs. Whine whine whine.
Its not whine whine whine, and nor should it be bracketed with that everytime people don't fully agree with something. Feedback is never useful if its only allowed to be one way.
What Valley11 raised was a valid point in my eyes, encompassed with a suggestion for the future. That is not whining, its constructively adding to the debate with the intention of improving things in the future.
There are three groups involved in football shirts. The manufacturer, the club, and the supporters who decide whether to buy them.
If they do, both the manufacturer and the club benefit. At present, only two of those three groups are involved in the design process.
Does it not make business sense that some form of representation from the group who will ultimately prove whether the release is successful or not, would be anything but beneficial ?
Certainly makes more sense to me than the shirts having to pass the 'Alan Pardew liking it' test.
Comments
It was "fairly obvious" to you that no one liked the new kits but that proved not to be the case. It would be my preference but don't assume that everyone thinks the same as you.
F
Dear Valley 11
Thanks for your enquiry.
A change of the planned new kits is completely out of the question given
that new kit designs take months of planning with a kit supplier ahead
of a public release. Selected designs are put forward by, in our case
Joma, and are then agreed by the Board, the Management, and the First
Team Manager.
The design of professional sports kits at our level is a commercially
sensitive business and extremely time crucial, and Joma would not be
willing to show four exclusive designs for our Professional First Team
to the general public for other brands to potentially copy.
I really urge you to wait until the kits are released, and you can see
them close at hand, on the pitch, or even in-store, before you decide
that these kits are not to your liking. The photographs released were to
announce our new sponsor, JD Sports, and a proper kit launch will be
staged shortly.
Thank you for your communication. I hope this explains the situation.
Kind Regards
Michael Rea
Head of Retail
as you said Valley 11 it was a full and speedy response.
I thought my email was a private exchange between myself and Mr Rea?
Also, I had the courtesy to ask Mr Rea if I could post his response on Charlton Life - so why didn’t you when it came to my original email – presumably you have my contact details from the email I sent Mr Rea?
And why did you feel the need to post my email to M.R. in the first place? I'd already posted his reply in another thread.
Secondly, you seem to be a bit aggrieved ever since I brought up the subject of kit change/choice/design and I can't work out why. I merely offered the suggestion but the tone of your emails seem to be that I'm insane or shouldn't be questioning the new designs. Why's that? Surely I'm allowed to voice my opinion. Admittedly I've made one sweeping statement with "fairly obvious" - but by the mere use of the word 'fairly' and 'most fans' I've kept the suggestion open.
I just don't get the animosity. I'm a whole hearted backer of all things CAFC - I just don’t like the kit. From your responses anyone would think I'm the new Reams!
I thought it was useful as it puts the reply in context but you are quite right that I should have asked you first.
I posted the reply in this thread as it follows on from the discussion so makes more sense.
I'm not "aggrieved" just pointing out that you are assuming that people don't like the new kit and what they would prefer when you have no evidence for that and in fact the poll and the response to your first statement have proved that it was an incorrect assumption.
Sorry if you read that as animosity as it wasn't. If you read back you'll see I took the effort to reply in full to your post and gave you Mike Rea's e-mail.
You are right that you are allowed to voice YOUR opinion. However by claiming that your views are shared by most or all fans on no evidence you are going beyond voicing YOUR opinion.
But Mr Rea shouldn't be passing my private email on to you, surely?
And I take your point about the 'shared views' - but I've never claimed to know the opinion of 'all' fans.
You did say "I'll stick my neck out here but I reckon most, if not all, supporters would prefer the kit above - "
OK it is a semantic point but that is normally meant as all fans or very close. In any case the your were speaking about, at the very least, "most" fans.
To be fair your e-mail did mention me by name and it was on a topic that you yourself had said in the e-mail both you and I had been discussing. Personally in those circumstances I don't think Mike was in the wrong to copy me in although, as I've said, I was wrong to post it here without asking you.
Let's 'cyber shake' on it and call it a day.
LOL Yes, but it was fun why it lasted. Shall we do that little fingers shake?
I probably shouldn't say this but I'm actually warming to the kits now.
*ducks to avoid flying tea cup*
As Mike and I said wait till you see them close up you'll love quite like them
Getting back to the question of whether the fans should be asked to vote on which design they favour, I am all for democracy and for the involvement fo fans but I think leaving this decision to fans is not a very sensible approach and given that Valley11 is already saying that quite likes them now suggests that our first thoughts do not always represent our settled views. Also as has been pointed out by the club, you really need to see them at close hand to make an informed judgement. For something as commercially important as this should be left to the clubs officials to decide, (and of course you would expect the manager to have a say, otherwise you may end up with the Man U grey kit scenario).
:D
LOL! Great pic. Is that a David Bailey original.
If anything, i'd say the reverse.
Love how the spin machine creeps in !! Shirts get a mixed reaction on their first outing, and all of a sudden its 'oh no, you didn't think that was the shirts did you ? That was just to announce the sponsor, honest. Oh you won't see the shirts for another couple of weeks'
Really ? Because it looked like a shirt launch to me !!
Sounds like you're becoming cynical too mate?
The last set of banners were a prime example, despite asking no one designed anything, then when it goes to a vote, people moan about the designs. Whine whine whine.
What Valley11 raised was a valid point in my eyes, encompassed with a suggestion for the future. That is not whining, its constructively adding to the debate with the intention of improving things in the future.
There are three groups involved in football shirts. The manufacturer, the club, and the supporters who decide whether to buy them.
If they do, both the manufacturer and the club benefit. At present, only two of those three groups are involved in the design process.
Does it not make business sense that some form of representation from the group who will ultimately prove whether the release is successful or not, would be anything but beneficial ?
Certainly makes more sense to me than the shirts having to pass the 'Alan Pardew liking it' test.