A tackle from behind (definite yellow) and a raised boot to an opposing players head (yellow).
Atwell obviously realised the media frenzy that would await him if he sent off another West Ham player, hence only a yellow for Neill. The guy is in a no win situation and shouldn't have to put up with it.
[cite]Posted By: valleyman[/cite]zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, blame the ref, its always their fault.
It's hardly as if he cares one way or the other about the result. I think it's very valid that a football fan to express disgust about a ref, particularly when they're doing it as a neutral.
Your attitude is why we have such appalling refs in this country
If refs are so appalling - who do you suggest we replace them with?
Better refs?
Not all of them are bad, but there are some like the currently suspended Clatty, Shatwell and Styles that are always poor. Why do they continue. Why does the FA select the likes of Poll to represent the country at world cups (he did this twice and made a string of horrific errors both times). Too many of these guys enjoy the attention. Controversial decisions = attention, which gives the Rennies and Ellerys of this world a thrill. If the FA permanently kicked out the grand standers the rest would stop doing it.
The fact that most people know the name of refs by sight, is a bad thing. It's an old truism, but the best refs are the ones you just never notice.
Better refs? That means fast tracking those at level 2 and 3 to Premier League and you run the risk of doing what has happened with Atwell when he's been fast tracked too quickly. It is simply far too easy to say better refs when they are the best we've got. Don't forget what they've had to go through to get where they are, how fit and committed they are, what strain they put on their private relationships having to travel the length and breadth of the country week in, week out. You can moan all you like but unfortunately we're stuck with them and let's face it most of them do a very good job indeed and it's very easy to critisize them. As for them enjoying the attenion has no proof behind it. Most of these officials will referee in front of thousands of people in the ground, millions watching world wide so they will get attention whether they want it or not. I just think it's common thought that referees love attention but other than doing their job to the best of their ability and little else to gain attention.
[cite]Posted By: Spankie[/cite]I certainly agree it does no one any good to slaughter Atwell and totally ignore the disgusting behaviour of the players...
I agree the players deserve blame, but atwell's failings helped it escalate. If he did his job properly then the players wouldn't have started taking matters into their own hands. Players shouldn't do that, but they are always going to.
BTW, Parker's rolling around screaming after cattermole's tackle on him was embarassing. What a waste.
Attwell only got two decisions wrong. And that might've been on purpose so the players didn't kick his head in.
First was not to send off Lucas Neill for the challenge halfway up the opposition player's shin. The second was to not give Parker a second yellow for his behaviour after the Carlton Cole sending off because I believe Brown was booked for behaviour in the same incident. Added to that, he could've gone for his acting after Cattermole's tackle (who was right to be sent off, a very stupid thing to do).
I can see why he didn't send Parker & Neill off though after that, and partly why he was so eager to give Cattermole the red.
I think the biggest problem was that Atwell let the game get Out of Control
He rightly sent Cole off
He should have Sent Parker Off and he should have sent Neal off
all before Catermole would have even fouled Parker
if ever you want to teach people why it is important for the Ref to be in control of the game that was it the 3 incidents above all warrented Red cards
I found Parkers reaction to the cole sending off hilarious he was nearly going to cry i havent seen him that aggitated since fat pat called him spotty parker in the gents at a POTY do.
Cole's 2nd yellow was harsh. He was facing the ball and the defender came from behind. Cole's eye's were always on the ball and there was no intent from him to even foul the opponent. Common sense should have prevailed.
I think the FA/FIFA have made a rod for their own back by retiring referee's when they are more than capable of continuing. Years and years of experience just severed because their DOB doesn't fit the criteria. If they can pass the fitness test let them continue. At his age Attwell should be doing Southern League or Conference fottball and gaining valuable experience and comon sense skills.
Total agree with that re the Cole challenge, even Rob Styles showed that refs are capable of showing a bit of common sense the other night with the late challenge from Racon.
the fact that there was 'no intent' by Cole is immaterial in my eyes, what if he'd made full contact with the guy's head, still no intent, but causing a serious injury. Would that still not be a yellow? Of course it would, maybe even a red, so the ref had to book him.
Seem to remember Van Persie being sent off for Arsenal in a European game, where he did same thing as Cole but left the other bloke bleeding badly.
[cite]Posted By: Talal[/cite]the fact that there was 'no intent' by Cole is immaterial in my eyes, what if he'd made full contact with the guy's head, still no intent, but causing a serious injury. Would that still not be a yellow? Of course it would, maybe even a red, so the ref had to book him.
Seem to remember Van Persie being sent off for Arsenal in a European game, where he did same thing as Cole but left the other bloke bleeding badly.
Players get broken legs in quite legitimate tackles. If a legitimate tackle results in a broken leg does that mean the player should be sent off?
Playing devils advocate........ A player has his back to goal on in the box and the ball is at head height that he does an overhead kick and a defender is behind him. Should that be allowed? If so, should we ban overhead kicks?
[cite]Posted By: Spankie[/cite]Better refs? That means fast tracking those at level 2 and 3 to Premier League and you run the risk of doing what has happened with Atwell when he's been fast tracked too quickly. It is simply far too easy to say better refs when they are the best we've got. Don't forget what they've had to go through to get where they are, how fit and committed they are, what strain they put on their private relationships having to travel the length and breadth of the country week in, week out. You can moan all you like but unfortunately we're stuck with them and let's face it most of them do a very good job indeed and it's very easy to critisize them. As for them enjoying the attenion has no proof behind it. Most of these officials will referee in front of thousands of people in the ground, millions watching world wide so they will get attention whether they want it or not. I just think it's common thought that referees love attention but other than doing their job to the best of their ability and little else to gain attention.
I appreciate it is all too easy to say and difficult to do, but if people are just going to wring their hands and shrug and claim that the Styleses and Clattenburgs have a difficult job, it's not good enough. Nobody makes them do it. On the point of them being attention whores - there is proof. Look at Poll's pathetic newspaper wankfest or Rennie's agent. These things didn't just happen to them. Better recruitment is in order. Who interviewed Atwell and deemed him worthy of promotion? I''d take one look at his spotty mug and his weak, quivering lip and I'd just know that this guy is a little bitch who's been bullied and wants his own back on the world. It's not an easy job but I think that it is made more difficult by incompetent refs rather than mardy fans and critical managers.
Just to be clear: I've said it a couple of times but you're not listening (you're reaching for your yellow card now, aren't you)- I'm talking about a particular brand of ref, not the good old boys doing their best to control a bunch of hungover thugs in a mudbath or even the decent pros, I'm talking about scum who screw up constantly in a comedic manner that I just cannot believe is accidental. And if it is they should be removed as any other employee who is incapable of performing their duties.
Refs are like goalkeepers, one mistake and they are pilloried. I saw Attwell ref at Exeter City on Saturday and thought he did well. If I had one critisism of him, its that he makes his decisions too quickly. I know quick decision making is important, but I think he'd benefit from taking a second or two to consider the decision before he gives it. He gave a pen on Saturday for handball, before the crowd had even appealed. This after an Exeter player fired the ball in at 90 miles an hour and it hit the darlo player as he put his arm up instictively to protect his face. IMO not a penalty, though I'm not complaining, I was on Exeter at 5/4 :-)
I had an interesting conversation with one of the QPR fans at work this morning (after he'd apologised for their abject failure to beat Barnsley and Norwich). Their ref on Tuesday night was officiating his first Championship game, and made a couple of reasonably high profile "errors" - he awarded a penalty to Norwich, then consulted with his Assistant and changed his mind, and then later on one of the QPR players was fouled, but managed to stay on his feet and get clear, but the ref had been a bit quick to whistle so pulled the play back. In both cases the players were a pretty aggrieved with the decisions, but the ref literally put his hands up to say "ok, sorry, my mistake" and calmed the situation down. My colleague said he would have happily had the ref for the rest of the season - he didn't get everything right, but he was fair, and didn't let his ego get in the way of the game, which is where I think Atwell goes wrong.
And I'm beginning to think the main thought of the football fans towards them is one of apathy, ridicule and disrespect. In what other sport does this happen other than football??? I personally think Mortimericain's attitude and words about referees are nothing short of appalling and if that's indicative of even 1% of the supporting public in this country than that's very sad indeed.
[cite]Posted By: Stone[/cite]Playing devils advocate........ A player has his back to goal on in the box and the ball is at head height that he does an overhead kick and a defender is behind him. Should that be allowed? If so, should we ban overhead kicks?
It should be allowed yes, if the player was to miss the ball and hit the defender then it should be a foul.
The main difference for me is the way the player's boot is facing. When doin an overhead kick the defender would most likely be stuck with the front of the boot,laces part. With Cole incident, defender would've been hit by the studs which is more likely to result in a more serious injury.
Thats just how i see it.
[quote][cite]Posted By: valleyman[/cite]zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, blame the ref, its always their fault. [/quote]
It's hardly as if he cares one way or the other about the result. I think it's very valid that a football fan to express disgust about a ref, particularly when they're doing it as a neutral.
Your attitude is why we have such appalling refs in this country [/quote]
Don't really get you. All I was saying was how fed up I am with people blaming refs for everything. Attwell from the little I have seen and heard is not one of the better refs and does make mistakes, however he is young and inexperienced and we all make mistakes.
True, there are good refs & bad refs but ultimately the problem is that it is an impossible job, especially in countrys like the UK where you get scrutinised so carefully for every single decision. This has balooned over the last 3-4 years and you can not watch match of the day without some argument about refs mistakes, they love to highlight them and say how terrible they were, but VERY rarely ever give credit.
If you ask me it is actually people like you, Mortimerican, who will cause the quality of refereeing in this country to fall. When refs are constantly abused by idiotic big headed players who think they are untouchable, idiotic conceited pundits who are ex players, fans who are caught up in the moment and journos who want to sell papers and go with popularist thoughts, the pool of high quality, competant people who want to go into that career is bound to fall. Speaking as someone who has just retired from playing Sunday League and is now looking for something else to do sunday mornings I would much rather become a coach or even take up golf than go out and take a load of abuse for making the occasional mistake as a ref.
That nonsense at Anfield is just unforgiveable. Atwells either thick as a thousand planks or he's getting paid off. The guy should'nt be allowed to referee at any level.
To be honest my thoughts were what was Turner thinking. He could have just left the ball where is was if he wanted the goalie to take the free kick. Thats not to say i agree with the decision to let the goal stand but you can see why the ref and linesman felt the ball had been brought into play by passing it back, The rubbish response from Turner after the match saying that he was putting the ball back to where it should be taken was a joke, because originally he took it 10 yards further up and was told to retake it. The ref told him exactly where to put the ball and Turner did. Then he back heels it another 10 yards to the keeper? Techincally he took the kick where the ref told him to take it. The problem is common sense should have prevailed here and the ref and linesman should have had it retaken.
Wait a minute "Common Sense" from officials..... never gonna happen.
Looked to me as if he was moving the ball back from where it was originally taken, not 10 yards back. Could be wrong. Either way it's clear he wasn't taking the free kick.
As said common sense says he wasn't taking the kick. But he did kick the ball away from where the ref specifically told him to take it from after making him retake it once already for taking it in the wrong place further up the pitch. Its not as though he picked it up and rolled it back to the keeper. It was misinterpretted by the officials and shouldn't have stood i agree. All i am saying is considering the ref had his back turned at the time all he saw was the ball moving away from the player who had kicked it. The linesman should have stopped play. The Ref looked to the linesman for support as he knows he didn't see it and couldn't rule. But the linesman didn't. Thats what they are there for to be the refs other eyes.
Had the ref blown the whistle before he turned his back? That's a key point. Nonetheless, it was a ridiculous scenario. Happy for Darren though, scoring proper goals to keep his club in it.
I’ve just seen this incident discussed on Goals on Sunday and thought I’d add a comment. Common sense says that the goal should have been disallowed because it is very clear that Michael Turner had not intended to take the free-kick. The problem for the referee and his linesman though was that technically the free-kick had been taken; the ball was in the right place, the whistle had been blown [hence Atwell is running away from play] and Turner kicked it. Technically, the officials were right to give a goal. Whether or not they should have given it depends on whether we are interested in fair play. That brings me to Fernando Torres.
Last week Alex Ferguson accused him of cheating. What do you think he’d have said this week if he’d scored yesterday’s goal against Manchester United?!! Of course, the ex players on Goals on Sunday refused to blame the player. They never do. The fact is though that Torres knew full well that Turner hadn’t meant to put the ball in play, but took advantage anyway. That’s gamesmanship in my view. Cheating in less polite language.
The standard of refereeing does seem to be getting worse for some reason, but the players really don’t help. As their reaction to Thierry Henry’s infamous goal confirmed, as far as the players are concerned cheating is OK provided you get away with it. We can’t always attack the referee, managers and players really have to take much more responsibility.
Why is it that cheating, diving, play-acting, simulation and overreacting is allowed in the game of football? You don't get it in other sports to anything like the same degree. What happened to the campaign to respect the referee?
Comments
A tackle from behind (definite yellow) and a raised boot to an opposing players head (yellow).
Atwell obviously realised the media frenzy that would await him if he sent off another West Ham player, hence only a yellow for Neill. The guy is in a no win situation and shouldn't have to put up with it.
Not all of them are bad, but there are some like the currently suspended Clatty, Shatwell and Styles that are always poor. Why do they continue. Why does the FA select the likes of Poll to represent the country at world cups (he did this twice and made a string of horrific errors both times). Too many of these guys enjoy the attention. Controversial decisions = attention, which gives the Rennies and Ellerys of this world a thrill. If the FA permanently kicked out the grand standers the rest would stop doing it.
The fact that most people know the name of refs by sight, is a bad thing. It's an old truism, but the best refs are the ones you just never notice.
I agree the players deserve blame, but atwell's failings helped it escalate. If he did his job properly then the players wouldn't have started taking matters into their own hands. Players shouldn't do that, but they are always going to.
BTW, Parker's rolling around screaming after cattermole's tackle on him was embarassing. What a waste.
First was not to send off Lucas Neill for the challenge halfway up the opposition player's shin. The second was to not give Parker a second yellow for his behaviour after the Carlton Cole sending off because I believe Brown was booked for behaviour in the same incident. Added to that, he could've gone for his acting after Cattermole's tackle (who was right to be sent off, a very stupid thing to do).
I can see why he didn't send Parker & Neill off though after that, and partly why he was so eager to give Cattermole the red.
He rightly sent Cole off
He should have Sent Parker Off and he should have sent Neal off
all before Catermole would have even fouled Parker
if ever you want to teach people why it is important for the Ref to be in control of the game that was it the 3 incidents above all warrented Red cards
I found Parkers reaction to the cole sending off hilarious he was nearly going to cry i havent seen him that aggitated since fat pat called him spotty parker in the gents at a POTY do.
I think the FA/FIFA have made a rod for their own back by retiring referee's when they are more than capable of continuing. Years and years of experience just severed because their DOB doesn't fit the criteria. If they can pass the fitness test let them continue. At his age Attwell should be doing Southern League or Conference fottball and gaining valuable experience and comon sense skills.
Seem to remember Van Persie being sent off for Arsenal in a European game, where he did same thing as Cole but left the other bloke bleeding badly.
Players get broken legs in quite legitimate tackles. If a legitimate tackle results in a broken leg does that mean the player should be sent off?
Just to be clear: I've said it a couple of times but you're not listening (you're reaching for your yellow card now, aren't you)- I'm talking about a particular brand of ref, not the good old boys doing their best to control a bunch of hungover thugs in a mudbath or even the decent pros, I'm talking about scum who screw up constantly in a comedic manner that I just cannot believe is accidental. And if it is they should be removed as any other employee who is incapable of performing their duties.
It should be allowed yes, if the player was to miss the ball and hit the defender then it should be a foul.
The main difference for me is the way the player's boot is facing. When doin an overhead kick the defender would most likely be stuck with the front of the boot,laces part. With Cole incident, defender would've been hit by the studs which is more likely to result in a more serious injury.
Thats just how i see it.
[/quote]
It's hardly as if he cares one way or the other about the result. I think it's very valid that a football fan to express disgust about a ref, particularly when they're doing it as a neutral.
Your attitude is why we have such appalling refs in this country [/quote]
Don't really get you. All I was saying was how fed up I am with people blaming refs for everything. Attwell from the little I have seen and heard is not one of the better refs and does make mistakes, however he is young and inexperienced and we all make mistakes.
True, there are good refs & bad refs but ultimately the problem is that it is an impossible job, especially in countrys like the UK where you get scrutinised so carefully for every single decision. This has balooned over the last 3-4 years and you can not watch match of the day without some argument about refs mistakes, they love to highlight them and say how terrible they were, but VERY rarely ever give credit.
If you ask me it is actually people like you, Mortimerican, who will cause the quality of refereeing in this country to fall. When refs are constantly abused by idiotic big headed players who think they are untouchable, idiotic conceited pundits who are ex players, fans who are caught up in the moment and journos who want to sell papers and go with popularist thoughts, the pool of high quality, competant people who want to go into that career is bound to fall. Speaking as someone who has just retired from playing Sunday League and is now looking for something else to do sunday mornings I would much rather become a coach or even take up golf than go out and take a load of abuse for making the occasional mistake as a ref.
Mind you I thought his assistant could have got him out of jail as he had (wrongly) turned his back on play.
Wait a minute "Common Sense" from officials..... never gonna happen.
I’ve just seen this incident discussed on Goals on Sunday and thought I’d add a comment. Common sense says that the goal should have been disallowed because it is very clear that Michael Turner had not intended to take the free-kick. The problem for the referee and his linesman though was that technically the free-kick had been taken; the ball was in the right place, the whistle had been blown [hence Atwell is running away from play] and Turner kicked it. Technically, the officials were right to give a goal. Whether or not they should have given it depends on whether we are interested in fair play. That brings me to Fernando Torres.
Last week Alex Ferguson accused him of cheating. What do you think he’d have said this week if he’d scored yesterday’s goal against Manchester United?!! Of course, the ex players on Goals on Sunday refused to blame the player. They never do. The fact is though that Torres knew full well that Turner hadn’t meant to put the ball in play, but took advantage anyway. That’s gamesmanship in my view. Cheating in less polite language.
The standard of refereeing does seem to be getting worse for some reason, but the players really don’t help. As their reaction to Thierry Henry’s infamous goal confirmed, as far as the players are concerned cheating is OK provided you get away with it. We can’t always attack the referee, managers and players really have to take much more responsibility.