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best player in the world
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Generational thing but for me Pele takes a lot of beating.
No votes for Albie I notice!
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Messi & Ronaldo have also had to compete against faster, fitter, stronger athletes.
I imagine Messi and Ronaldo would have been burned at the stake back in Maradona, Pele or Cruyff's times.
They would be the Ivan Drago's to the Apollo Creed's of the previous generations of greats.2 -
I’m not in favour of a World Cup at this time of year for a number of reasons. However what ever time of year you play it there will be some who benefit and some who are hampered. That is the nature of sport and the unpredictability of injuries, illness and form. I recall at the 1986 Mexico World Cup a number of players suffering from hay fever at a time when most effective treatments often caused considerable drowsiness, those players might have preferred to play at a different time of year. The key thing in all sport is the conditions are the same for all as far as possible and hopefully the best or those who adapt the best will win.SELR_addicks said:
True but the hope is that you have the best nations playing at their peak.North Lower Neil said:
Can only beat what's in front of you.SELR_addicks said:cafctom said:
Rich coming from someone who tried to legitimately push a narrative that tonight’s game was fixed after about 30 minutes.SELR_addicks said:
shh, narratives remember?MrOneLung said:
The first one was the worst decision everCallumcafc said:
The first man to do so.paulie8290 said:
Make that 2 Fifa World Cup Golden Ballspaulie8290 said:The GOAT debate is over
Messi winning the World Cup confirms GOAT status, never want to hear anyone say Ronaldo is better again
First player to score in every knockout game of a World Cup as well
France national team had a huge virus outbreak in their camp in the last week. The fact Argentina couldn't beat them in 120 minutes is pretty funny, they did their best to give it away in the end.
I very much doubt Argentina will give a sh*t, while they get pissed and pass the World Cup around for photos etc
A winter World Cup meaning that multiple top stars miss out through injury, and the final played under a cloud of an illness isn't my idea of the peak of football.
Some people like Messi so don't care either way. Good for them.1 -
I hate Maradona with a passion but he had every one kicking lumps out of him when there’s nothing like the protection players receive today and he went and done it in Italy with Napoli who weren’t one of the two teams in a two horse race and with a team blessed with talent like Messi has had all his club career .
Different eras so not easy to call I’d say they’re joint 2nd behind the most silky footballer of all time , our very own Paul Mortimer a genuine Rolls Royce of a player .
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the three most shown clips of Pele are him missing from the halfway line, him missing after dummying the goalkeeper and him missing an open goal header against Gordon Banks. . Boosted his goals tally internationally by including goals in friendlies against club teams and at club level by including goals in friendly games and junior football1
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The Pele belief is a bit odd, 99.9% of football fans saw him play a few hours every four years. He was probably a great player, but with Messi there’s no probably about it, his every kick was broadcast worldwide. I think older people want to believe Pele is the greatest because that’s what they’ve always believed and change is hard.MrOneLung said:the three most shown clips of Pele are him missing from the halfway line, him missing after dummying the goalkeeper and him missing an open goal header against Gordon Banks. . Boosted his goals tally internationally by including goals in friendlies against club teams and at club level by including goals in friendly games and junior football3 -
I would say Pelé and Brazil revolutionised how we view football: the dominance of association football vs rugby football for entertainment was not guaranteed and they helped to make it the most democratic, accessible and international sport.0
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They would have been athletes themselves if they were around today.Dazzler21 said:Can't help but laugh people think Pele, Maradona and Ronaldo Nazario would have competed against the athletes of today.
Sure they'd be world class, but better than Messi and Ronaldo?
They'd be alongside Neymar, Benzema & Henry etc
Plus they wouldn't be hacked to pieces every time they had possession and would be playing on carpet pitches.
And maradona, the greatest of all time, did it all coked up. Imagine what a player he'd have been sober and living clean.
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Exactly. I never got this thing about only players now are best and wouldn't cut it today. A good player is a good player in any era. Stanley Matthews would walk into teams today and Messi the same back in the 30sRodneyCharltonTrotta said:
They would have been athletes themselves if they were around today.Dazzler21 said:Can't help but laugh people think Pele, Maradona and Ronaldo Nazario would have competed against the athletes of today.
Sure they'd be world class, but better than Messi and Ronaldo?
They'd be alongside Neymar, Benzema & Henry etc
Plus they wouldn't be hacked to pieces every time they had possession and would be playing on carpet pitches.
And maradona, the greatest of all time, did it all coked up. Imagine what a player he'd have been sober and living clean.2 -
There are, at least, two different conversations, the answer to both might be the same though.
As whole careers body of work Messi probably now stands alone but that's when people like Pele (4 world cups and winning 3 of them is remarkable, how ever you spin it) and Ronaldo (C) come into the conversation.
Then you have got the how good was their best. Which is very different. I don't think anyone has ever been as much better than everyone else than Maradona was in 86. Even though he played in 4 (should have been 5) world cups 86 was his zenith. Best, Rolando (OG), Van Basten, maybe Baggio come into this one, and probably others.
The answer may well be Messi, or someone else, to both.
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Messi is easily clear of Maradona.2
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If Hayesey can get Fraser back to his MKD form..
It’s Mbappe now . Messi is the best of all time, regardless of what happened yesterday0 -
It's all opinion - nobody is correct in naming the GOAT because it is impossible to compare other than stats, and stats cannot accurately identify who was the best at the beautiful game - football is art rather than science.So no correct answer (unless the answer is George Best).1
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Dazzler21 said:Can't help but laugh people think Pele, Maradona and Ronaldo Nazario would have competed against the athletes of today.
Sure they'd be world class, but better than Messi and Ronaldo?
They'd be alongside Neymar, Benzema & Henry etc
Pele and chubby Ronaldo were power players will skill where both Messi and winker Ronaldo are mesmeric on the ball with their magic feet. Winker is far superior to Messi in the air but the wee one has the vision and scanning ability of a hawk where winker isn't looking to pass as much.
Pele won the WC in 58-62-70 and what would have happened if a weak referee had given him more protection in 66 ?
Pele never tested himself in Europe, only playing in the USA at the end to top up his pension.
Pele, Cruyff, both Ronaldo's, Maradona and Mbappé are in the top 6
Neymar and Henry both superb players but below the top 6.
My personal favourite was/is Messi but subjective; also how good were their team mates. Pele had many World class colleagues in all the Three wins even though he was a sublime player from 17 to 30 years of age.
Mbappé if he doesn't lose his love of football as he go near to being a billionaire can continue to be brilliant but by the time he is 30 he may lose some of his speed which would negate so much of his main weapon.
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Apart of me does hope Ronaldo will push aside his internal moan, and he will strive to fight back for the GOAT argument.
He will at least throw another punch for the argument.
Ronaldo could have one good season somewhere and then retire for club and Country. He has to end his career on a high, otherwise it is a complete regretful waste and everyone will mostly remember how it all finished.
Ronaldo certainly struggles to accept he is no where near as good as he used to be.
Messi clearly adjusted to the development of old age as he decided to be a team player and not shoot from 40 yards everytime he gets the ball.
The argument will be further concluded when messi is aged 38/39.2 -
What makes Messi’s story extra special is that he saved the crown jewel of trophies until the end.Had us all debating about whether he is this or that for so long - and then just goes and puts a massive exclamation mark on it all just when retirement came into view.1
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Ryan Inniss is out of the running...1
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It was Maradona before the World Cup and it's still Maradona afterwards.
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It's impossible to compare players from different eras in a meaningful way and invariably players in certain positions always have a higher profile.
Players before a certain date such as DiStefano, Garrincha etc seem to be forgotten about.1 -
Always find it hard to compare players from different generations as you have to wonder what players like Pele, Best and Cruyff would like if they had the same diets/scientific benefits today's players enjoy. Think Maradonna would have been insanely good but he is still a coked up, cheating midget so he'll never get my vote as the best.
Purely based on the players I've been able to see enough of live or on TV it has to be Messi. Ronaldo may be a more complete player but it's what Messi brings to the overall team that separates those 2.0 -
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That date is the introduction of colour TV. Its one of the reasons the answer to the question is often Pele.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:It's impossible to compare players from different eras in a meaningful way and invariably players in certain positions always have a higher profile.
Players before a certain date such as DiStefano, Garrincha etc seem to be forgotten about.0 -
Garrincha seems to have been largely forgotten about but as you say Colour TV has a huge role.Cafc43v3r said:
That date is the introduction of colour TV. Its one of the reasons the answer to the question is often Pele.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:It's impossible to compare players from different eras in a meaningful way and invariably players in certain positions always have a higher profile.
Players before a certain date such as DiStefano, Garrincha etc seem to be forgotten about.
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Edwards, Wright, Matthews, Di Stefano, Puskus all pre colour. Then you have got the 100ish years of players before them.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
Garrincha seems to have been largely forgotten about but as you say Colour TV has a huge role.Cafc43v3r said:
That date is the introduction of colour TV. Its one of the reasons the answer to the question is often Pele.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:It's impossible to compare players from different eras in a meaningful way and invariably players in certain positions always have a higher profile.
Players before a certain date such as DiStefano, Garrincha etc seem to be forgotten about.0 -
Also very hard to compare attacking players with defensive ones - how would you compare a player like Virgil Van Dike with KDB for instance. Let alone compare players from different eras
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At the risk of stating the obvious - Putting the ball in the net is the most important thing to do in football, hence why attacking players will always get the most plaudits (and the most money). And rightfully so IMO.jacob_CAFC said:Also very hard to compare attacking players with defensive ones - how would you compare a player like Virgil Van Dike with KDB for instance. Let alone compare players from different eras1 -
The art of defending is never really appreciated...cafctom said:
At the risk of stating the obvious - Putting the ball in the net is the most important thing to do in football, hence why attacking players will always get the most plaudits (and the most money). And rightfully so IMO.jacob_CAFC said:Also very hard to compare attacking players with defensive ones - how would you compare a player like Virgil Van Dike with KDB for instance. Let alone compare players from different eras1 -
Sorry, are you saying that in the 50’s rugby was close to topping football in terms of popularity?Arthur_Trudgill said:I would say Pelé and Brazil revolutionised how we view football: the dominance of association football vs rugby football for entertainment was not guaranteed and they helped to make it the most democratic, accessible and international sport.I have never heard anything remotely like that0 -
Pele (57-71), Maradona (77-94) and now Messi (05-22+) are undoubtedly the greatest of their respective generations. It is difficult to compare across generations and I fully understand the fact that Maradona and Pele had lumps kicked out of them game after game, a problem that Messi didn't have to deal with to the same extent.
With that said, if either of those two were better than Messi, they must've been an incredible watch. There are so many magical and memorable moments from throughout this bloke's career, multiple at this World Cup alone (goal vs Mexico, assists vs Netherlands and Croatia)...
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Maradona also did it in a country/league everyone said was low scoring & too defensive.0
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There is a flaw in your logic. The fact that there is considerably less footage of the older players does not in any way mean that Messi is a better player than them. It simply means that there is less evidence to go by. Messi is without a doubt the greatest player of the current generation. We will never know if he is, in any objective way, better or worse than Pele or Maradona.se9addick said:It’s now, objectively, completely undoubted that it’s Messi. People claiming that it’s Maradona even though they really only saw about ten hours of him actually playing or, even weirder, Pele who could have gone four years without Europeans seeing him play. Messi’s every kick in his career was broadcast worldwide. We saw all of it - we saw how it started, we saw the almost unbelievable things that happened at Barcelona, we saw the highs and the lows for Argentina until that Copa America win. Then we all saw him orchestrate a World Cup win, almost unimaginable.You can pretend that any of you saw those things for Pele or Maradona, but I’m very, very confident it’s not true.
Messi is, now, the greatest of all time.1
