[quote][cite]Posted By: nth london addick[/cite]Class A as well
Not looking good for the lad
He will be dead before long such a shame someone should scetion him and get him sorted out this is a real tragedy unfolding before us
Come on Gazza
Sort yourself out son
I feel like kidnapping him and handcuffing him to my radiator until he dries out[/quote]
I'm surprised this bloke still has the sympathy of so many. He's a woman beating, drug taking drunk, who recently came out in support of a man who had just killed, maimed & blinded innocent people.
[cite]Posted By: nth london addick[/cite]Class A as well
Not looking good for the lad
He will be dead before long such a shame someone should scetion him and get him sorted out this is a real tragedy unfolding before us
Come on Gazza
Sort yourself out son
I feel like kidnapping him and handcuffing him to my radiator until he dries out
I'm surprised this bloke still has the sympathy of so many. He's a woman beating, drug taking drunk, who recently came out in support of a man who had just killed, maimed & blinded innocent people.
I've got a huge deal of sympathy for him. Ok, its somewhat different for me as I spent years idolising him at WHL but its not just the alcoholism with him. His mental health has been in decline for years. I'm pretty sure he is Bipolar as he has been showing the symptoms for years. I know the cynics of you out there will go, "yeah, bipolar, that's the new fashionable excuse nowadays etc", but Bipolar is a bloody evil illness. Dont get drawn in by the media hype and by what Stacey on Eastenders suffers from. Thats one of the most unreallistic portrayals you could imagine but anyway... I wont go into length about Bipolar disorder here but if you want more info about it, check out the MIND website, or the Institute of Psychiatry at the Maudsley website, both very valuable resources.
What works for one doesnt necessarily work for another and its a very lengthy process to get the levels of support and medication right. When I say lengthy, the process can be endless.
No-one chooses to be an alcoholic, no-one chooses to be mentally ill. Sorry, he deserves sympathy and support.
[cite]Posted By: nth london addick[/cite]Class A as well
Not looking good for the lad
He will be dead before long such a shame someone should scetion him and get him sorted out this is a real tragedy unfolding before us
Come on Gazza
Sort yourself out son
I feel like kidnapping him and handcuffing him to my radiator until he dries out
I'm surprised this bloke still has the sympathy of so many. He's a woman beating, drug taking drunk, who recently came out in support of a man who had just killed, maimed & blinded innocent people.
I've got a huge deal of sympathy for him. Ok, its somewhat different for me as I spent years idolising him at WHL but its not just the alcoholism with him. His mental health has been in decline for years. I'm pretty sure he is Bipolar as he has been showing the symptoms for years. I know the cynics of you out there will go, "yeah, bipolar, that's the new fashionable excuse nowadays etc", but Bipolar is a bloody evil illness. Dont get drawn in by the media hype and by what Stacey on Eastenders suffers from. Thats one of the most unreallistic portrayals you could imagine but anyway... I wont go into length about Bipolar disorder here but if you want more info about it, check out the MIND website, or the Institute of Psychiatry at the Maudsley website, both very valuable resources.
What works for one doesnt necessarily work for another and its a very lengthy process to get the levels of support and medication right. When I say lengthy, the process can be endless.
No-one chooses to be an alcoholic, no-one chooses to be mentally ill. Sorry, he deserves sympathy and support.
All well and good but were he Joe Bloggs and not a famous footballer would you have the same sympathy for him.
Didn't Moat and others have mental health issues? So maybe does Andy Carroll but there is little sympathy shown to him on another thread on here.
I'm not saying that mental health issues excuses or negates any behaviour but a lot of people currently in prison will have had the same problems and issues as Gazza but without any of the same opportunities, money or support.
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]All well and good but were he Joe Bloggs and not a famous footballer would you have the same sympathy for him.
Most definitely. Let me go some way to justifying that.
My brother is Bipolar. Was diagnosed 7 years ago. I'm not going to discuss in great detail what has happened over the last 7 years but the illness has destroyed my brothers life. When a sufferer has a manic episode, absolutely anything can happen and I mean anything. Can you remember back to that news story where Gazza done nothing but play on his Wii in his hotel room for 5 days without sleeping or whatever it was? Thats a prime example of a manic episode. The body just goes on and on, the energy levels are absolutely incredible and they feel absolutely indestructable. Some of the stories my brother could tell you about what he has experienced when he's having an episode would shock you. Would probably frighten you too. Quite frankly, he's still very lucky to be alive. Very lucky indeed. Then of course, after the manic episode, the mood swing goes the other way to a level of Manic Depression.
My brother has struggled for 7 years. As a result of his illness, he lost his well paid job but he now works part-time on a fraction of the money he was on before. He is lucky because he still has a job. Others dont.
So yes, I can sympathise with Gazza. I sympathise with my brother too. My brother is lucky as he has received fantastic treatment from the NHS and has got a strong family around him. Unfortunately, Gazza's family seem to have lost patience with him which is sad. There's a huge stigma attached to mental illness down to a general misunderstanding which really does need to be put right. My brother has suffered discrimination from it and many others like him do too. Very sad indeed. Check out the Time to Change website, very informative indeed.
Trust me, if anyone has any doubts, go and spend an hour in a psychaitric unit. You might maybe understand then.
when you know someone with mental illness, and you see it destroy them and have a lasting affect on the family and friends you tend to view these issues very differently.
Gazza is ill, he is an acoholic which on its own is a terrible illness and a real sad illness to be around.
as said above he is bipolic it is obvious he needs help.
i too had someone close not family who was bipolic and the level of depression caused them to eventually take their own life
mental illness has long lasting affects on those with it and those who are around them
[cite]Posted By: nth london addick[/cite]when you know someone with mental illness, and you see it destroy them and have a lasting affect on the family and friends you tend to view these issues very differently.
Gazza is ill, he is an acoholic which on its own is a terrible illness and a real sad illness to be around.
as said above he is bipolic it is obvious he needs help.
i too had someone close not family who was bipolic and the level of depression caused them to eventually take their own life
mental illness has long lasting affects on those with it and those who are around them
Alcoholism is NOT an illness, nor is it a disease. Calling it such is one of the main reasons people continue to abuse alcohol - by calling it a 'disease' you are placing an enormous barrier in front of alcoholics to overcome if they are to beat their addiction. Telling someone they have an 'out' by blaming their addiction on some unseen outside force is pulling the wool over their eyes - they CHOOSE to be an alcoholic - whether they, you, I or anyone else thinks that way is neither here nor there. It's not a palatable truth - it implies that they have to take a good, hard look at themselves - one of the main reasons people start drinking in the first place is self-examination and not liking what they see.
As someone who has dealt with the effects of alcoholism first-hand, I find it extremely upsetting when people refer to it as a disease.
[cite]Posted By: Leroy Ambrose[/cite]Alcoholism is NOT an illness, nor is it a disease. Calling it such is one of the main reasons people continue to abuse alcohol - by calling it a 'disease' you are placing an enormous barrier in front of alcoholics to overcome if they are to beat their addiction. Telling someone they have an 'out' by blaming their addiction on some unseen outside force is pulling the wool over their eyes - they CHOOSE to be an alcoholic - whether they, you, I or anyone else thinks that way is neither here nor there. It's not a palatable truth - it implies that they have to take a good, hard look at themselves - one of the main reasons people start drinking in the first place is self-examination and not liking what they see.
As someone who has dealt with the effects of alcoholism first-hand, I find it extremely upsetting when people refer to it as a disease.
This. Unfortunately AA alhtough well meaning still peddles the crap that it is a disease and they are unlucky with their genes rather than explaining it is alcohol addiction and dependency brought on by emotional and mental problems.
Absolute bollocks it is a disease...you dont get to choose to get cancer but you can choose whether or not you pick up a drink.
Whilst I feel sorry for Gazza he is a selfish cnut and has probably had more help than the average alcoholic. He had a loving wife and a family and he has been too selfish to get help and see t through.
Say what you like folks, i have had first hand experience of an alcholic and i believe its an illness everyone in the medical proffesion think its an illness most of it mental illness the inability to over come.
i have had to watch my maritial family fall apart due to alcholism and i know that the person who had it was ill, ill because the drink took over their life and they could not over come the addiction and in the end the drink killed them
I understand feelings run high on this, and people have different viewpoints. Not to belittle anything you say NLA - but everyone in the medical profession does NOT think it's an illness. Most of them don't. It's just that when the US AMA classified it as a 'disease' back in the sixties, it was fashionable to do so. Many millions of people across the world have received completely the wrong kind of treatment for alcohol addiction as a result. Alcoholism meets NONE of the criteria for classification as a disease.
If alcoholism is a 'disease', why then are smoking and eating copious quanities of fatty foods not classed as such?
before i had first hand exposure toit, i thought it was a weakl minded person who failed to beat the drink, i still do have this perception i can not understand it as i am not one. but i know that she tried so hard but failed so many times, demons we all have but the majority of us can overcome them, an alcoholic cant thats why those that get dry can only do so by stopping all toghether not one sip can pass their lips
There is a distinction between disease and illness, and the two are being muddled IMO. Illness is accepted to be more than the absence of a pathological process or processes ( disease). Illness may be thought of as more a condition or state of mind where there needs to exist a feeling of physical and mental well being. Illness exists where these conditions are not met. Gazza, being bi-polar, having obsessive-compulsive disorder together with an inability to stop drinking, had an illness which led to disease. Interestingly, research is now strogly suggesting that there is a genetic problem - the 'addiction' gene. It doesn't make people drink, but it is thought to make it much more difficult for a person to stop drinking, smoking, drugs etc.
Seems that it's now a given that he's "bi-polar". Does anyone know this as a fact? I think that the only reference in this thread is a poster saying that they are "pretty sure" that he is. That sounded like an opinion to me, rather than an official diagnosis. Back to the X-Factor. Groan!
I was in Jesmond a few weeks ago, attending an AA meeting asa matter of fact. Whether it's a "disease" or not AA is more than well-meaning. AA saves people from, lets call it a "condition", over which they have previously demonstrated no control. If as some here have said it is simply a matter of choice why would people choose to indulge in something which they no longer enjoy, is wrecking their health, leaving them in misery and destroying their sense of purpose and hope? Oh, hang on, I forgot, we support Charlton Athletic, don't we?
Some people can eat nuts others have anaphylactic shock which can prove fatal. It may not be an illness or a disease as such but it certainly affects sufferers adversely.
So it is with alcohol. Some people can drink without it significantly impacting on their lives others cannot and they and sometimes people around them are affected adversely.
Whether you call it an illness or not an alcoholic needs support and encouragement to control and eliminate the problem although ultimately he has to want it for his or herself.
The support from others helps build up sufficient self esteem and willpower in the sufferer to enable him or her to fight the addiction.
Gazza has been surrounded by too many hangers on who want the reflected glory of saying they are drinking buddies with an England footballer. Somehow he has to remove himself from that environment to survive. However football is and was his life. Those hangers on remind him of the good times. Hence it is a vicious spiral for him.
[cite]Posted By: Leroy Ambrose[/cite]I understand feelings run high on this, and people have different viewpoints. Not to belittle anything you say NLA - but everyone in the medical profession does NOT think it's an illness. Most of them don't. It's just that when the US AMA classified it as a 'disease' back in the sixties, it was fashionable to do so. Many millions of people across the world have received completely the wrong kind of treatment for alcohol addiction as a result. Alcoholism meets NONE of the criteria for classification as a disease.
Yes. The majority of people who drink to an unhealthy extent simply stop doing so at some point, often because other things become a priority - career, family etc. That doesn't mean it is easy for some people to give up but 'disease' and 'cure' are unhelpful terms.
[cite]Posted By: stilladdicted[/cite]Interestingly, research is now strongly suggesting that there is a genetic problem - the 'addiction' gene. It doesn't make people drink, but it is thought to make it much more difficult for a person to stop drinking, smoking, drugs etc.
There is however almost certainly no gene 'for' addiction, it's way more complicated than that and it is as misleading - and potentially dangerous - in terms of treatment as the 'disease' mindset. I agree of course that some people are more prone to addiction than others but it doesn't mean they are simply victims either of a disease or their genes (not that I think you were suggesting that).
[cite]Posted By: Wheresmeticket?[/cite]Whether it's a "disease" or not AA is more than well-meaning.
Some researchers think AA works as a form of peer pressure. That sounds right to me and it is a useful lesson in how to deal with addiction in that it shows how important the social context is for encouraging and dealing with addiction. Weight Watchers works in a similar way.
Thank you John Boy, Leroy, NLA as this is a good informed thread. I think its about susceptibility. Some people can drink copious ammounts of alcohol but not beome addicted; other a few drinks and they are caught. Same with heroin and cocaine and prescription drugs. Gazza has the additional problem of dealing with depression when away from the adrenalin highs of being a world class footballer. Somehow he has to learn to stay in control and he will manage it some days but then the demons take over and then anything can happen. Bless him. What a weird life eh? From a national treasure to being wholly pitiful.
24 red said - 'There is however almost certainly no gene 'for' addiction, it's way more complicated than that and it is as misleading - and potentially dangerous - in terms of treatment as the 'disease' mindset. I agree of course that some people are more prone to addiction than others but it doesn't mean they are simply victims either of a disease or their genes (not that I think you were suggesting that).
Some researchers think AA works as a form of peer pressure. That sounds right to me and it is a useful lesson in how to deal with addiction in that it shows how important the social context is for encouraging and dealing with addiction. Weight Watchers works in a similar way.'
...........
You are right, I certainly wasn't suggesting this and I agree with your comments about the potential dangers There is an undoubted highly complex interaction of genetics and social environment, and it will certainly not be fully understood in my lifetime, if ever. The problem with AA and WW is that they only seem to work provided people keep going. Certainly the failure rate from WW is quite alarming in that it seems to turn the majority of its members into yo yo dieters, with the added consequences of adding yet more feelings of failure. Very vicious cycles. If it did become possible to 'turn on' a gene, or repair a 'faulty' one, then I would see this as a useful extra tool, nothing more than that. But I fear it's all too late for Gazza, Len Glover #88, was spot on.
The sentencing of former footballer Paul Gascoigne for drink-driving has been adjourned after he failed to show up at court.
Newcastle Magistrates' Court was told that Gascoigne had checked himself into a rehab clinic in the south of England.
He had previously admitted driving while more than four times the legal alcohol limit, after being stopped by police in Newcastle on 8 October.
District Judge Stephen Earl adjourned proceedings until 9 December.
He said: "He is not here because he has decided to put himself in for treatment, that's the bit that causes me concern."
"Who's running the show?"
He warned Gascoigne's solicitor that if he failed to show up he would be sentenced without a probation report, or locked up in order to get a report.
"The court will have its process," he added.
Stephen Andrews, defending, said he first became aware of the difficulties about attendance when a meeting, pre-arranged for his Darlington office on Tuesday, did not take place.
"The situation is that I received information through the course of the last 48 hours advising me that Mr Gascoigne has been readmitted into a rehabilitative institution in the south of the country," he said.
"This information came to me via a representative of his management company."
The 43-year-old Tyneside-born former England midfielder is due to stand trial next month for allegedly drinking and driving in North Yorkshire in February, a charge he denies
Comments
I'll bring me slippers!
Shall I use the front door, or....
Not looking good for the lad
He will be dead before long such a shame someone should scetion him and get him sorted out this is a real tragedy unfolding before us
Come on Gazza
Sort yourself out son
I feel like kidnapping him and handcuffing him to my radiator until he dries out[/quote]
I'm surprised this bloke still has the sympathy of so many. He's a woman beating, drug taking drunk, who recently came out in support of a man who had just killed, maimed & blinded innocent people.
Raol Moat Gazza again was not exactly making the decision of a man in full control of his facalties
the wife Beating there was and is no excuse for
but this is Gazza my hero and idol as a child
No mate all entries round the back
I've got a huge deal of sympathy for him. Ok, its somewhat different for me as I spent years idolising him at WHL but its not just the alcoholism with him. His mental health has been in decline for years. I'm pretty sure he is Bipolar as he has been showing the symptoms for years. I know the cynics of you out there will go, "yeah, bipolar, that's the new fashionable excuse nowadays etc", but Bipolar is a bloody evil illness. Dont get drawn in by the media hype and by what Stacey on Eastenders suffers from. Thats one of the most unreallistic portrayals you could imagine but anyway... I wont go into length about Bipolar disorder here but if you want more info about it, check out the MIND website, or the Institute of Psychiatry at the Maudsley website, both very valuable resources.
What works for one doesnt necessarily work for another and its a very lengthy process to get the levels of support and medication right. When I say lengthy, the process can be endless.
No-one chooses to be an alcoholic, no-one chooses to be mentally ill. Sorry, he deserves sympathy and support.
John Boy
you are bang on my man absolutely bang on
Didn't Moat and others have mental health issues? So maybe does Andy Carroll but there is little sympathy shown to him on another thread on here.
I'm not saying that mental health issues excuses or negates any behaviour but a lot of people currently in prison will have had the same problems and issues as Gazza but without any of the same opportunities, money or support.
All very sad.
Most definitely. Let me go some way to justifying that.
My brother is Bipolar. Was diagnosed 7 years ago. I'm not going to discuss in great detail what has happened over the last 7 years but the illness has destroyed my brothers life. When a sufferer has a manic episode, absolutely anything can happen and I mean anything. Can you remember back to that news story where Gazza done nothing but play on his Wii in his hotel room for 5 days without sleeping or whatever it was? Thats a prime example of a manic episode. The body just goes on and on, the energy levels are absolutely incredible and they feel absolutely indestructable. Some of the stories my brother could tell you about what he has experienced when he's having an episode would shock you. Would probably frighten you too. Quite frankly, he's still very lucky to be alive. Very lucky indeed. Then of course, after the manic episode, the mood swing goes the other way to a level of Manic Depression.
My brother has struggled for 7 years. As a result of his illness, he lost his well paid job but he now works part-time on a fraction of the money he was on before. He is lucky because he still has a job. Others dont.
So yes, I can sympathise with Gazza. I sympathise with my brother too. My brother is lucky as he has received fantastic treatment from the NHS and has got a strong family around him. Unfortunately, Gazza's family seem to have lost patience with him which is sad. There's a huge stigma attached to mental illness down to a general misunderstanding which really does need to be put right. My brother has suffered discrimination from it and many others like him do too. Very sad indeed. Check out the Time to Change website, very informative indeed.
Trust me, if anyone has any doubts, go and spend an hour in a psychaitric unit. You might maybe understand then.
I think many of us, myself included, can be quick to look at certain behaviour and condemn without considering what lies behind it.
Condom ? LMAO
Gazza is ill, he is an acoholic which on its own is a terrible illness and a real sad illness to be around.
as said above he is bipolic it is obvious he needs help.
i too had someone close not family who was bipolic and the level of depression caused them to eventually take their own life
mental illness has long lasting affects on those with it and those who are around them
RIP Lee
Ditto. RIP Clare.
mate alcholism is an illness, drinking is not an illness being an alcholic is they are sick people who need help like it or not ask any doctor
As someone who has dealt with the effects of alcoholism first-hand, I find it extremely upsetting when people refer to it as a disease.
This. Unfortunately AA alhtough well meaning still peddles the crap that it is a disease and they are unlucky with their genes rather than explaining it is alcohol addiction and dependency brought on by emotional and mental problems.
Absolute bollocks it is a disease...you dont get to choose to get cancer but you can choose whether or not you pick up a drink.
Whilst I feel sorry for Gazza he is a selfish cnut and has probably had more help than the average alcoholic. He had a loving wife and a family and he has been too selfish to get help and see t through.
i have had to watch my maritial family fall apart due to alcholism and i know that the person who had it was ill, ill because the drink took over their life and they could not over come the addiction and in the end the drink killed them
If alcoholism is a 'disease', why then are smoking and eating copious quanities of fatty foods not classed as such?
shame a real real shame
So it is with alcohol. Some people can drink without it significantly impacting on their lives others cannot and they and sometimes people around them are affected adversely.
Whether you call it an illness or not an alcoholic needs support and encouragement to control and eliminate the problem although ultimately he has to want it for his or herself.
The support from others helps build up sufficient self esteem and willpower in the sufferer to enable him or her to fight the addiction.
Gazza has been surrounded by too many hangers on who want the reflected glory of saying they are drinking buddies with an England footballer. Somehow he has to remove himself from that environment to survive. However football is and was his life. Those hangers on remind him of the good times. Hence it is a vicious spiral for him.
Yes. The majority of people who drink to an unhealthy extent simply stop doing so at some point, often because other things become a priority - career, family etc. That doesn't mean it is easy for some people to give up but 'disease' and 'cure' are unhelpful terms.
There is however almost certainly no gene 'for' addiction, it's way more complicated than that and it is as misleading - and potentially dangerous - in terms of treatment as the 'disease' mindset. I agree of course that some people are more prone to addiction than others but it doesn't mean they are simply victims either of a disease or their genes (not that I think you were suggesting that).
Some researchers think AA works as a form of peer pressure. That sounds right to me and it is a useful lesson in how to deal with addiction in that it shows how important the social context is for encouraging and dealing with addiction. Weight Watchers works in a similar way.
Some researchers think AA works as a form of peer pressure. That sounds right to me and it is a useful lesson in how to deal with addiction in that it shows how important the social context is for encouraging and dealing with addiction. Weight Watchers works in a similar way.'
...........
You are right, I certainly wasn't suggesting this and I agree with your comments about the potential dangers There is an undoubted highly complex interaction of genetics and social environment, and it will certainly not be fully understood in my lifetime, if ever. The problem with AA and WW is that they only seem to work provided people keep going. Certainly the failure rate from WW is quite alarming in that it seems to turn the majority of its members into yo yo dieters, with the added consequences of adding yet more feelings of failure. Very vicious cycles. If it did become possible to 'turn on' a gene, or repair a 'faulty' one, then I would see this as a useful extra tool, nothing more than that. But I fear it's all too late for Gazza, Len Glover #88, was spot on.
Newcastle Magistrates' Court was told that Gascoigne had checked himself into a rehab clinic in the south of England.
He had previously admitted driving while more than four times the legal alcohol limit, after being stopped by police in Newcastle on 8 October.
District Judge Stephen Earl adjourned proceedings until 9 December.
He said: "He is not here because he has decided to put himself in for treatment, that's the bit that causes me concern."
"Who's running the show?"
He warned Gascoigne's solicitor that if he failed to show up he would be sentenced without a probation report, or locked up in order to get a report.
"The court will have its process," he added.
Stephen Andrews, defending, said he first became aware of the difficulties about attendance when a meeting, pre-arranged for his Darlington office on Tuesday, did not take place.
"The situation is that I received information through the course of the last 48 hours advising me that Mr Gascoigne has been readmitted into a rehabilitative institution in the south of the country," he said.
"This information came to me via a representative of his management company."
The 43-year-old Tyneside-born former England midfielder is due to stand trial next month for allegedly drinking and driving in North Yorkshire in February, a charge he denies