didn't go but came home and watched the game on sky+ ...don't think the family were impressed with me screaming abuse at the telly at 11.30pm last night ...
richardson bombed forward well with no real end product and was at fault big time for the goal ..
i thought sam was our only real threat going forward but he is trying to find a toothless forward line atm
we have to go up this season cos that team without bailey(great player but a helmet) sam or burton will struggle to get many bums on seats or points...
still orient are on a great run and no mugs and a solid mid table team, so losing is no real shame and remember last time we lost we went on a great run ...
LLera played so brilliant long balls out of defence last night, unfortunately all the short ones he played went straight to the Oppo, the guys an enigma.
Not criticising Parky but was unsure about sending two forwards out together at the same time, both Dicko and McKenzie hadnt played much in the first team or together, at that stage of the game. Was a big throw of the dice I suppose.
I thought Richardson did well going forward but then ran into players, either Sam needs to overlap more or he needs to look inside quicker.
Would like to see McKenzie on the left, saw him do it for Coventry in a few games and looked useful, got to be worth a go.
Bailey just needs to get on with playing his football and stop going down under every challenge, he is captain, he should be setting an example, if he wants to shout and moan, do it to inspire, cajole the team, not to whinge at the ref every ten minutes. Bailey is a great player and needs to let his football do the talking not his gob.
Hopefully Swindon and Walsall can do us favours tonight but there is a long long way to go.
Just a blip, onwards and upwards and lets batter Tranmere on sat.
Lloyd did really well last night (over all), sure he lost posession a few times and annoyed some with his stepovers but he was the only threat we had all game and got in several good crosses - one or two of which should've been converted. Without him last night we would've been embarrasing. Would've been nice to see the other midfielders contribute a little bit more.
Anyway some people might be very happy soon, could be a bid or two coming in for him and maybe we aren't in a postion to turn down a good one.
[cite]Posted By: Mortimerician[/cite]
5. A final point for those blowing sunshine up Richardson's arse: if you beat 4 men then run into trouble or kick it out of play, you might look fancy, but you're really doing nothing other than impress the easily impressed. Maybe if he hadn't been so busy pointlessly running into packs of Orient players, he'd have enough puff not to be at fault for the goal.
Agree this entirely! though there was a BLATANT FOUL on Bailey just wish bailey would play to the whistle.
[cite]Posted By: DRAddick[/cite]When does a blip become we're not good enough?
I understand this is only our second loss but recently we've been lucky not to lose, not unlucky not to win and that's a big difference. I don't expect us to dominate or even play well every game, but i do expect us to look like we've got a chance and i haven't seen that for several weeks. The team just looks tired, slow and uninterested and as a result the passing, control and shooting has become poor again as it was the last few disastrous seasons.
I really have no idea what's gone wrong so quickly. Mentality of the players, management, or were the players playing above themselves at the start of the season (i don't believe that). Maybe we're just too one dimensional and have been found out and no-one knows how to change it. No players who can change games or get everyone going.
I hope this is just a blip and Parky and the players can change things round. But we just don't look strong enough, mentaly as well as physically to continually compete/win week in week out at the moment and that means in the long run no chance of promotion.
I truly hope i'm just being paranoid and am proved wrong.
The above was from post-Carlisle and we did ok after that didnt we?
didn't we lose the following game to northwich victoria in a thoroughly gutless encounter?
Can some explain to me why Charlton players are so poor at tackling, all season they have looked like iidiots to many times when tackling. We also far to often allow the oppisition players to run unchallanged for 20-30 yards only then to foil the player just out side the box why! All these traits on show last night plus lethergy from all the players.
[cite]Posted By: DRAddick[/cite]When does a blip become we're not good enough?
I understand this is only our second loss but recently we've been lucky not to lose, not unlucky not to win and that's a big difference. I don't expect us to dominate or even play well every game, but i do expect us to look like we've got a chance and i haven't seen that for several weeks. The team just looks tired, slow and uninterested and as a result the passing, control and shooting has become poor again as it was the last few disastrous seasons.
I really have no idea what's gone wrong so quickly. Mentality of the players, management, or were the players playing above themselves at the start of the season (i don't believe that). Maybe we're just too one dimensional and have been found out and no-one knows how to change it. No players who can change games or get everyone going.
I hope this is just a blip and Parky and the players can change things round. But we just don't look strong enough, mentaly as well as physically to continually compete/win week in week out at the moment and that means in the long run no chance of promotion.
I truly hope i'm just being paranoid and am proved wrong.
The above was from post-Carlisle and we did ok after that didnt we?
didn't we lose the following game to northwich victoria in a thoroughly gutless encounter?
And the one after that at Southampton...........anyway ssshhhhhhh the cups don't count.
Orient passed the ball well when they had it we did not.
Orient pressed the opposition when they had the ball we did not.
Orient put the ball in the net we sadly did not.
Bottom line is we missed out on three points, we are crying out for a natural wide left player which will I think will help solve many but not all of our problems. We look so lobsided at times it beggars belief. Still optimistic about the remainder of the season though.
[cite]Posted By: Ketman[/cite]Orient passed the ball well when they had it we did not.
Orient pressed the opposition when they had the ball we did not.
Orient put the ball in the net we sadly did not.
And Orient had found the resources to address weaknesses in their team during the transfer window. We don't have those resources as we still have millstones like Moo2's wages.
Game was one of the worst I've seen in a long time, totally clueless, shelvey was off the pace also his reactions when he didn't get a pass or someone wasn't where he wanted them didn't help, bailey did the same to not what you want from your 2 top players almost like there better than the others and can't play with the lesser talent. Think we really needed to take jonjo off and play racon, wagstaff left racon and jose centre with sam right. Give up with catering, left 2 mins early to get a pint had my first sip as they kicked off... apart from that had a blinding match pre match outside the oak, that barmaid is fit fit... then post match in the bugle by the fire.. another fitty behind the bar! Got home around 1am and slept on sofa so to not wake the mrs.
Yeah or play him left again, semedo and racon were the main reason for our recent sucess might give him abit of a wake up call, would rest jonjo again too, people might disagree with that but just my views I do have quite a bad hangover and sore neck from sleeping on the sofa so judgement might be out, I would start bailey left then if inafective swap with wagstaff or leon.
I agree that last night he was pony but he has been our best player over our winning run. I think play racon on the left. We pay his wages, he can play their.
Have only read parts of this thread so apologies for any repeats.
Sam: Didn't think it was one of his best games but he's always a threat. Sneaked a quick look at Sky when I got back and they all seemed to think he was our only menace. Simple to see why he divides opinion so myuch - he works hard and sees a lot of the ball, but often (see last night) makes the wrong decision as he gets closer to goal. At the moment we're so unbalanced that he's our only direct route to attack which, coupled with teams having done their homework from earlier games, often leaves him crowded out. We really need to sort out the left side soon - Youga's return should help.
Llera: Agree with Morti; he's an obvious scapegoat. He made some howlers last night but they stood out (a) because of his awkward size and (b) because he took it upon himself at least to try to change things when others faded away. Too many long balls from several players as we grew more desperate.
Mooney: Agree he was poor. Didn't get close enough to Burton, who won plenty. Too many times he doesn't physically threaten defenders, making life too comfortable for them. I do understand his awareness and ability to find space but that's not always enough. Would like to have seen Leon for him a little earlier.
We've often scraped decent results recently without being streets ahead of the opposition. So far our success has been built on making the very best of our still limited squad, and doing that little bit more each game. Last night too many had off games together so we weren't collectively better than Orient. Different subs / tactics might have helped but with so many having poor games, who knows?
Let's just stick together and go at it again v Tranmere. So far responses to set backs during and after games have been admirable. Onwards and hopefully upwards!
Apologies if it's been posted on another thread but a friend popped into the Club Shop just as Kelly Youga was winding up his signing session there last night. He asked Kelly when we might see him back in the squad and the answer was " Don't know, maybe 4 weeks or more. It's a bad injury and so frustrating ". So don't hold your breath ...
Just wanted to add my two pennorth re the match. Isn't it blatantly obvious that we need to keep the ball on the ground more from now on , keep the passes simple on the whole and, as everyone seems to have agreed, play 2 wide players who can take on a defender and cross a ball... not that there's anyone attacking it when they do as Chris_from_Sidcup pointed out.
And as Palarse are in such dire straits and delight in signing ex Charlton players, perhaps they'd like to take Dicko on loan ? We have no use for him....
Watched this one on the Net and it was a poor performance and we need to have a little think about where we go from here tactically.
My preference, if everyone is fit, would be to go back to the 4-4-1-1 system because, with so few good attacking options it makes the best use of our midfield/wingers.
We can then bring Mooney off the bench if needed and go back to 4-4-2, but I feel that if we make the best use of our wide men and really look to get Jonjo on the ball and picking up lay-offs from Burton that we can be effective.
I would love to see another striker come in though, preferably Akpo.
[cite]Posted By: Ormiston Addick[/cite]My preference, if everyone is fit, would be to go back to the 4-4-1-1
Bad idea. Teams have sussed it out. Burton is too isolated in this system. While he does a manful job in winning the ball he was getting instantly swarmed before he had anyone to lay it off to.
Desperately need a left side feel bit sorry for Basey as he had little support from the player who was meant to be playing in front of him defensive and attacking wise, We were exposed down that side and most teams know our weakness and our strengths, style of play by now and Orient had a solid game plan.
Sam was our main attacking threat on the night and managed on number of occasions to get beyond his marker or twist and turn there defence put a ball in the box but little movement from our forwards or midfielders to attack it who was there ready to attack the ball at front or back post.
Shelvey was having a poor game trying too much on his own I would of replaced him with Racon as Semedo and him have a good partnership in the centre of midfield move Sam out to the Left and bring Wagstaff on for Mooney to play on the right with Bailey behind Burton and try to attack in 4-4-1-1 with Bailey the license to support to Burton who is our only natural target man who can hold up the ball and play it.
Parky really surprised me with the way he used his subs and tactics Dickson & McKenzie had little effect to be fair without Semedo in the middle to break up play they still managed to just work the ball into our box though the middle.
What frustrated me the most was how our players just didnt look up for it at all! Not only frustrating but desperately worrying, what higher incentive would you need to go out and give it your all than the chance to go level on points with top of the league!If were going to be failing to up our game at this stage of the season what would it be like for us IF we was to reach the playoffs!
On a positive note, we still have plenty of time to turn it around, somehow and were only 6 points off top with a game in hand and Leeds seem to be similarly throwing games away!
I'm not sure we need such drastic changes in personnel, bring McKenzie in on the left where he has played before. This gives us a balanced side which hopefully will breed confidence. With everyone in a fixed role rather than "floaters" or people out of their natural position, perhaps we can work on the training ground for Dailly to bring the ball out like he was with 4-5-1 and give him a couple of set options to pass to. Having one less body in midfield cuts his out ball, but a bit of mobility from the side should compensate.
[cite]Posted By: Ormiston Addick[/cite]My preference, if everyone is fit, would be to go back to the 4-4-1-1
Bad idea. Teams have sussed it out. Burton is too isolated in this system. While he does a manful job in winning the ball he was getting instantly swarmed before he had anyone to lay it off to.
I agree, 4-4-1-1 worked very well for the first dozen or so games, but it became predictable and when we here could see its limitations it came as no surprise when others teams worked out how to play against it.
We have to persevere with Burton/Mooney, but they have to link better than they did against Orient.
Comments
richardson bombed forward well with no real end product and was at fault big time for the goal ..
i thought sam was our only real threat going forward but he is trying to find a toothless forward line atm
we have to go up this season cos that team without bailey(great player but a helmet) sam or burton will struggle to get many bums on seats or points...
still orient are on a great run and no mugs and a solid mid table team, so losing is no real shame and remember last time we lost we went on a great run ...
Not criticising Parky but was unsure about sending two forwards out together at the same time, both Dicko and McKenzie hadnt played much in the first team or together, at that stage of the game. Was a big throw of the dice I suppose.
I thought Richardson did well going forward but then ran into players, either Sam needs to overlap more or he needs to look inside quicker.
Would like to see McKenzie on the left, saw him do it for Coventry in a few games and looked useful, got to be worth a go.
Bailey just needs to get on with playing his football and stop going down under every challenge, he is captain, he should be setting an example, if he wants to shout and moan, do it to inspire, cajole the team, not to whinge at the ref every ten minutes. Bailey is a great player and needs to let his football do the talking not his gob.
Hopefully Swindon and Walsall can do us favours tonight but there is a long long way to go.
Just a blip, onwards and upwards and lets batter Tranmere on sat.
Anyway some people might be very happy soon, could be a bid or two coming in for him and maybe we aren't in a postion to turn down a good one.
Agree this entirely! though there was a BLATANT FOUL on Bailey just wish bailey would play to the whistle.
didn't we lose the following game to northwich victoria in a thoroughly gutless encounter?
And the one after that at Southampton...........anyway ssshhhhhhh the cups don't count.
Orient pressed the opposition when they had the ball we did not.
Orient put the ball in the net we sadly did not.
Bottom line is we missed out on three points, we are crying out for a natural wide left player which will I think will help solve many but not all of our problems. We look so lobsided at times it beggars belief. Still optimistic about the remainder of the season though.
And Orient had found the resources to address weaknesses in their team during the transfer window. We don't have those resources as we still have millstones like Moo2's wages.
Now we have been turned into a kick and rush outfit playing the long ball most of the time and we have been flattered in recent games.
Most of our recent opponents have played better football than us.Parky has got to get Racon back in as soon as poss.
I cant believe he did not bring him on last night. Shelvey is not ready to run a game yet.
Sam: Didn't think it was one of his best games but he's always a threat. Sneaked a quick look at Sky when I got back and they all seemed to think he was our only menace. Simple to see why he divides opinion so myuch - he works hard and sees a lot of the ball, but often (see last night) makes the wrong decision as he gets closer to goal. At the moment we're so unbalanced that he's our only direct route to attack which, coupled with teams having done their homework from earlier games, often leaves him crowded out. We really need to sort out the left side soon - Youga's return should help.
Llera: Agree with Morti; he's an obvious scapegoat. He made some howlers last night but they stood out (a) because of his awkward size and (b) because he took it upon himself at least to try to change things when others faded away. Too many long balls from several players as we grew more desperate.
Mooney: Agree he was poor. Didn't get close enough to Burton, who won plenty. Too many times he doesn't physically threaten defenders, making life too comfortable for them. I do understand his awareness and ability to find space but that's not always enough. Would like to have seen Leon for him a little earlier.
We've often scraped decent results recently without being streets ahead of the opposition. So far our success has been built on making the very best of our still limited squad, and doing that little bit more each game. Last night too many had off games together so we weren't collectively better than Orient. Different subs / tactics might have helped but with so many having poor games, who knows?
Let's just stick together and go at it again v Tranmere. So far responses to set backs during and after games have been admirable. Onwards and hopefully upwards!
Just wanted to add my two pennorth re the match. Isn't it blatantly obvious that we need to keep the ball on the ground more from now on , keep the passes simple on the whole and, as everyone seems to have agreed, play 2 wide players who can take on a defender and cross a ball... not that there's anyone attacking it when they do as Chris_from_Sidcup pointed out.
And as Palarse are in such dire straits and delight in signing ex Charlton players, perhaps they'd like to take Dicko on loan ? We have no use for him....
My preference, if everyone is fit, would be to go back to the 4-4-1-1 system because, with so few good attacking options it makes the best use of our midfield/wingers.
Elliott
RIchardson - Dailly - Llera/Sodje - Youga
Sam - Semedo - Bailey - Wagstaff/McKenzie
Shelvey
Burton
We can then bring Mooney off the bench if needed and go back to 4-4-2, but I feel that if we make the best use of our wide men and really look to get Jonjo on the ball and picking up lay-offs from Burton that we can be effective.
I would love to see another striker come in though, preferably Akpo.
Sam was our main attacking threat on the night and managed on number of occasions to get beyond his marker or twist and turn there defence put a ball in the box but little movement from our forwards or midfielders to attack it who was there ready to attack the ball at front or back post.
Shelvey was having a poor game trying too much on his own I would of replaced him with Racon as Semedo and him have a good partnership in the centre of midfield move Sam out to the Left and bring Wagstaff on for Mooney to play on the right with Bailey behind Burton and try to attack in 4-4-1-1 with Bailey the license to support to Burton who is our only natural target man who can hold up the ball and play it.
Parky really surprised me with the way he used his subs and tactics Dickson & McKenzie had little effect to be fair without Semedo in the middle to break up play they still managed to just work the ball into our box though the middle.
On a positive note, we still have plenty of time to turn it around, somehow and were only 6 points off top with a game in hand and Leeds seem to be similarly throwing games away!
I agree, 4-4-1-1 worked very well for the first dozen or so games, but it became predictable and when we here could see its limitations it came as no surprise when others teams worked out how to play against it.
We have to persevere with Burton/Mooney, but they have to link better than they did against Orient.