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Tesco Towns in Woolwich and Dartford

Plus Bromley by Bow and Streatham but who cares.

Tesco's building 900 new homes in Woolwich Town Centre plus new civic buildings.

Good thing I say. New people moving in, spending money and might even encourage someone to open a non-£ shop.

What with Cross rail and the DLR Woolwich Town centre is going to be the place to live soon.
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Comments

  • You can't polish a turd.
  • [cite]Posted By: Sparrows Lane Lion[/cite]You can't polish a turd.

    Oh, the irony.
  • millwall have been trying for years
  • Chortle chortle.

    All well & good spending money and regenerating an area, but if people don't respect it and carry on behaving as they are, then the new people who move in will quickly move back out.

    Already happened in various developments around Woolwich according to a few stories I have heard.
  • Yet the history of London is one of constant change as "good" areas go "bad" and then turn "good" again.

    Islington was a posh suburb but then became a run down area until the Victoria Line opened.

    Notting Hill was a posh development that went downhill with the development of Metroland. It was poor in the 50s (hence the big immigrant population and the 58 riots) but has become more and more upmarket and expensive.

    Hard to imagine Woolwich as the new Notting Hill and it won't happen overnight or without problems but it might, just might.
  • Can see the Dartford one working, as its far enough out of London. Woolwich is a cack hole and always will be, no matter what you put there. Gotta agree with SLL (unfortunately).
  • In the same paper in 2007 it reported how the competition authorities were looking at Tesco due to their monopolising of certain towns....now they are actually building them!
  • [cite]Posted By: ValleyGary[/cite]Can see the Dartford one working, as its far enough out of London. Woolwich is a cack hole and always will be, no matter what you put there. Gotta agree with SLL (unfortunately).

    As said above people would have said the same of Notting Hill, Spitalfields and Hoxton a few years ago.
  • [cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: ValleyGary[/cite]Can see the Dartford one working, as its far enough out of London. Woolwich is a cack hole and always will be, no matter what you put there. Gotta agree with SLL (unfortunately).

    As said above people would have said the same of Notting Hill, Spitalfields and Hoxton a few years ago.

    Perhaps, but were they in a big a mess as Woolwich?....i thought Hoxton was still a dive.
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  • Have to agree with Sparrows Lane. I knew the Woolwich area well in the late 1960's and early '70s and back then it was a good solid working class area with decent pubs, shops and a thriving street market and local industries. Also home then to the Woolwich Building Society head office before they moved to Bexleyheath. From what I've seen and heard about it recently it's pretty grim to say the least. Maybe the opening of the first MacDonalds in the UK there in 1974 started the rot. I sincerely hope the regeneration plans work, but I have my doubts.
  • Hoxton is the new Islington. Like Islington still has big council estates but house prices have gone through the roof.

    Stratford will go the same way. And who would have thought that the Isle of Dogs or Greenwich Penisular would change the way they have in the last 30 years.

    Doubt if Woolwich will ever be Blackheath or Greenwich but history, not just some bloke SLL meet in the pub, tells us that areas change and go up and down and that often new transport links are a major factor in those changes.

    Let's have another look in 20 years time.

    Meanwhile what is good for Woolwich is good for Charlton Athletic.
  • [cite]Posted By: mistrollingin[/cite]Have to agree with Sparrows Lane. I knew the Woolwich area well in the late 1960's and early '70s and back then it was a good solid working class area with decent pubs, shops and a thriving street market and local industries. Also home then to the Woolwich Building Society head office before they moved to Bexleyheath. From what I've seen and heard about it recently it's pretty grim to say the least. Maybe the opening of the first MacDonalds in the UK there in 1974 started the rot. I sincerely hope the regeneration plans work, but I have my doubts.

    But you are proving my point. Areas change. They are not fixed as good or bad. Over decades things change.
  • I was in Woolwich on a weekday recently. The amount of police and specials patrolling the shopping area means it's obviously got some serious problems. I got the impression looking around that those who could had long gone.
  • it's an interesting idea. almost a return to industrial revolution style towns with the factory/mill owner building the houses for his workers.

    I can see a benefit in that there are always complaints with big new developments that the house go up but it takes a long time for the amenities to catch up.

    It will be interesting to see where the dartford one is planned for - there is the ghost town on the marshes on the site of Joyce green hospital or perhaps the big eastern quarry stuff near bluewater which seems to have slowed development massively in the last 18 months.
  • [cite]Posted By: Sparrows Lane Lion[/cite]Chortle chortle.

    All well & good spending money and regenerating an area, but if people don't respect it and carry on behaving as they are, then the new people who move in will quickly move back out.

    Already happened in various developments around Woolwich according to a few stories I have heard.

    Christ, there is no chance of saving me me now. When you start agreeing with a "spanner" you have no chance ; )
  • edited April 2010
    Drove through Woolwich today ( after collecting my Leeds tickets) on to Plumstead...... ehm!....
    Shipping in ' yuppie types' is not really the answer , except help flog off the flats for Berkley Homes.... nothing wrong with regeneration, and people who support the community, use the schools, and make a contribution to the community.
    I feel most of this lot would not be seen dead walking through Woolwich town center of a night, ( mind you nor would I).
    It is not the development that are the issue, but the poor planning, ridiculous council politics, and anti social behaviour of the locals ( not all) that has led to this waste ground.
    To think how the endeavours of my grandparents have gone to waste, helping form trade unionism, and the RACS, is nothing short of a disgcrace.

    Yes it can be regeneratted with vision, that does not meen smashing everything down!.
  • Henry, you really do have some issues don't you. Some bloke I met in the pub? Nope, a family I know who moved onto the old mental hospital site. Plus plenty of friends who live in Plumstead.

    I agree areas can change. But Woolwich doesn't have a lot going for it like Islington, Notting Hill & Hoxton did and what Bermondsey is now going through.

    All have very close links to central London and benefit from the overspill of better areas. Woolwich will improve, it HAS to, otherwise it's going to continue in it's rapid spiral downards. But it's not even a nice walk from there to Greenwich or Blackheath, and there is sod all going the other way.

    At least the example you keep mentioning are within an easy walk of trendy places etc and even better transport links.

    If Woolwich does improve and people start moving in, then I hope that the shit that is there now doesn't get pushed out to other areas and whilst Woolwich improves other areas suffer (like what's happened with the displacement of the Ferrier)
  • I live in the Woolwich area, and have done on and off since being dragged kicking and screaming from my Sidcup home as a 10 year old in 1973.
    Woolwich has been in decline since the late 70s when shops like Cuffs, RACS vanished, sadly Tesco will not be able to tart the dump up, it has been neglected for way too long, and despite the presence of Police and others crime is still a huge problem, the housing estates that surround the town centre are rife with a whole range of issues, that a nice new supermarket and some housing will deal with, I for one will be up and out very soon, down into the wilds of Kent, where I can live a safer life and infuriate the Gills chairman by getting a coach to the Valley.
  • Having said all that we now have a Starbucksopen and Nando opening soon, so someone must think the place is on the up, either that or there is some serious social engineering going on.
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  • [cite]Posted By: PeteF[/cite]Having said all that we now have a Starbucksopen and Nando opening soon, so someone must think the place is on the up, either that or there is some serious social engineering going on.

    Just what Woolwich needs, another Chicken joint.
  • edited April 2010
    [cite]Posted By: ken from bexley[/cite]Drove through Woolwich today ( after collecting my Leeds tickets) on to Plumstead...... ehm!....
    Shipping in ' yuppie types' is not really the answer , except help flog off the flats for Berkley Homes.... nothing wrong with regeneration, and people who support the community, use the schools, and make a contribution to the community.
    I feel most of this lot would not be seen dead walking through Woolwich town center of a night, ( mind you nor would I).
    It is not the development that are the issue, but the poor planning, ridiculous council politics, and anti social behaviour of the locals ( not all) that has led to this waste ground.
    To think how the endeavours of my grandparents have gone to waste, helping form trade unionism, and the RACS, is nothing short of a discrace.

    Yes it can be regeneratted with vision, that does not meen smashing everything down!.

    Not all locals Ken, me and Shootershillguru are fine upstanding citizens. ; )
    Edit: not forgetting PeteF ; )

    Talking of Woolwich reminded me of when I bought a car and the guy wanted cash, there I was strolling through Powis street with 5 grand in cash in my pocket.
  • i wont be convinced till i see pizza express there
  • [cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]Hoxton is the new Islington. Like Islington still has big council estates but house prices have gone through the roof.

    Stratford will go the same way. And who would have thought that the Isle of Dogs or Greenwich Penisular would change the way they have in the last 30 years.

    Doubt if Woolwich will ever be Blackheath or Greenwich but history, not just some bloke SLL meet in the pub, tells us that areas change and go up and down and that often new transport links are a major factor in those changes.

    Let's have another look in 20 years time.

    Meanwhile what is good for Woolwich is good for Charlton Athletic.


    The writers of The Long Good Friday did !!!!
  • Gawd, no one is say Woolwich is a great place NOW or that it hasn't been going downhill for a while. Tell all your horror stories if you like but you are missing the point.

    Point is that with crossrail and the DLR plus the existing lines it WILL have great transport links, it IS close to the O2 and to the Valley so there are interesting places nearby : - )

    Places do become better because as we have seen in those other places for some reason young trendy people start to take the hard to let council flats and houses that no one else wants and at some time it reaches a tipping point. The new social housing is bought by trendies and the people who live in Woolwich now complain about having to move to Sidcup or Bexley.

    Get some long term perspective. things change. Not this week or next but over decades. Or maybe not. We shall see.

    Mr One Lung, great point on the Long Good Friday. Took ages but while there is still a lot of poor, socially deprived housing on the Island it is a different place.
  • [cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite] Meanwhile what is good for Woolwich is good for Charlton Athletic.

    How exactly?
  • Well some people seem to think that Bexleyheath is the new Woolwich, but without the heritage......
    And I am not too over excited about Bexley as well!...... a couple of decent schools and a handful of buildings, is not the centre of cultural and educational excellence some might have you think!

    What did one of the past leaders of the council say about 'Danson house'. the best thing it could do is fall down..... a real visionary there, and last time I checked with the Red house they had not received much money from Bexley council to maintain one of Bexley's finest residence, worthy of retention.!

    No wonder my house is on the market at this time........
  • [cite]Posted By: Chris_from_Sidcup[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]Meanwhile what is good for Woolwich is good for Charlton Athletic.

    How exactly?

    More businesses in the area = more possible sponsorships/exec boxes/people in better paid jobs more likely to buy tickets/more use of our catering and hospitality on non-match days for company conferences.

    More and richer residents = more potential single ticket and season ticket sales/more use of the catering and hospitality facilities.

    Better transport links make it easier to reach the Valley.

    Yes, we still need to put something out on the pitch to attract people into the Stadium for some of that but that is another issue.

    It is no coincidence that as employment in Charlton and Woolwich fell in the 50s and 60s due to closures of factories and the Arsenal so did our crowds.
  • [cite]Posted By: ken from bexley[/cite]Well some people seem to think that Bexleyheath is the new Woolwich, but without the heritage......
    And I am not too over excited about Bexley as well!...... a couple of decent schools and a handful of buildings, is not the centre of cultural and educational excellence some might have you think!

    What did one of the past leaders of the council say about 'Danson house'. the best thing it could do is fall down..... a real visionary there, and last time I checked with the Red house they had not received much money from Bexley council to maintain one of Bexley's finest residence, worthy of retention.!

    No wonder my house is on the market at this time........

    Bexley is the new Woolwich. Move to Woolwich now Ken, you'll thank me in 30 years time : - )
  • Henry - problem you'll get with these new people buying tickets (if they indeed do) is that they won't be "Charlton" and will further dilute the club. Whether anyone minds or not is another issue.

    We had all this with Rabbats and her grand vision for the industrial land around Millwall. No doubt about it, they would sell, but her pitch of the Den being surrounded by wine bars and trendy shops, full of young professional couples then going to watch an entertaining game of football, while utterly laughable, was bloody worrying and sickening too!
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