Croydon is a prime example of the affect of gentrification of an area (Brixton), doing areas up just pushes the problems outwards. In 30 years time the countryside could be a nightmare! Serious investment is needed in giving these kids something better to do with themselves and improving the current policing techniques, as sweeping the problems under the carpet is highly irresponsible.
Friend or Defoe - it's not just Croydon, but the outskirts of SE London & N Kent are going through huge changes now as well.
You hit on a point that gets ignored a lot though, about more than just policing & coming down hard, but providing an outlet and something to do for the kids.
Far too many undeveloped plots of land or wasted fields around my area that should be developed on and provide sports facilities or youth centres, somewhere for kids to go and stuff to do.
Not the only answer, but it's better than having even more kids roaming the streets & parks if their parents can't control 'em.
I have seen close to me a basketball/football court provided, and for a few months it was supervised and great, now it is a meeting point for the gangs. My local community centre is nothing more than a base for various church's that seem to meet there, 25 or so years ago when Greenwich Council gave a toss about the local community this facilty hosted the local air scouts and a few youth clubs, none of them are there now, the Scouts were told someone else had offered more money for their slot, so they had to move since then one of these church's has moved in, its no longer a community centre as the local community cannot get near the place. Its high time Greenwich Council's ruling party got the elbow, saldy that will not happen as the locals keep voting the buggers in!
[cite]Posted By: Sparrows Lane Lion[/cite]Let's make it simpler; Woolwich's problem is the amount of warring somali gangs that not only fight eachother but travel to Charlton, Plumstead, Welling, Eltham, Kidbrooke, Lee etc and have caused a lot of problems.
Sort them out and the fear & crime that goes along with it and you may have a chance.
Thats twice I've agreed with you now ; )
Sorry Henry, but when an ugly B******* like me wont venture into Woolwich after dark then somethings not right. And Yes, its Somalli gangs. Thats the facts if they were white I'd say they were white. As everyone knows I live on Shootershill when using Woolwich Arsenal train station after dark I pay 8 quid to get a black cab up the hill rather than walk or getting the bus, after nine o/clock you cant get one because they wont take a chance on someone holding a knife to their throats for a couple of quid.
Those are the facts Henry its not rumour/gossip/hearsay.
I'll tell you what Henry, at 10.30 saturday night meet me at the cashpoints by Somerfields. Draw a tenner out of the hole in wall, then look me in the eye and tell me not s******* yourself ; )
What T.C.E. said. It's quite amazing to think that I used to work in a club in Spray Street in 1967/68 on Saturday nights called The Ska Bar looking after the cloakroom, drinks etc. The club was almost 100% attended by young (and not so young) Jamaicans just there to dance to the music and enjoy a joint or three. I'd finish my shift around midnight when I'd walk to roughly where the market used to be and wait for a 96 bus home to Bexleyheath. Never once did I ever felt concerned about my own safety.
I played football for Dartford U18s and we had 5 or 6 black kids from Woolwich playing in our team (5 Somali, 1 Nigerian....our manager, Dave Scott, thought we had to give them a 'fair chance' cos of their background).
We had a really good side on the pitch, but off it there was a big divide. They stole a mobile phone of one of our players and didnt even deny doing it. To say there was a few rows after is an understatement. The club ended up kicking them out, and we ended up with a new side halfway through the season. Wrongen's.
[quote][cite]Posted By: T.C.E[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: Sparrows Lane Lion[/cite]Let's make it simpler; Woolwich's problem is the amount of warring somali gangs that not only fight eachother but travel to Charlton, Plumstead, Welling, Eltham, Kidbrooke, Lee etc and have caused a lot of problems.
Sort them out and the fear & crime that goes along with it and you may have a chance.[/quote]
Thats twice I've agreed with you now ;
Sorry Henry, but when an ugly B******* like me wont venture into Woolwich after dark then somethings not right. And Yes, its Somalli gangs. Thats the facts if they were white I'd say they were white. As everyone knows I live on Shootershill when using Woolwich Arsenal train station after dark I pay 8 quid to get a black cab up the hill rather than walk or getting the bus, after nine o/clock you cant get one because they wont take a chance on someone holding a knife to their throats for a couple of quid. Those are the facts Henry its not rumour/gossip/hearsay. I'll tell you what Henry, at 10.30 saturday night meet me at the cashpoints by Somerfields. Draw a tenner out of the hole in wall, then look me in the eye and tell me not s******* yourself ; )[/quote]
I am going to agree with this, I am 6 ft + and pretty large and I live 5 minutes walk from Woolwich Arsenal Station, there is no way I would wander around Woolwich at night, it can be a seriously scary place, as for the cash machine I feel safer using my local shop and being charged nearly £2 for the privelige, I am not a racist in anyway and anyone who wants to call me that will find themselves in allsorts of bother, but I am afraid the gangs that are hanging around are Somali gangs.
[cite]Posted By: Sparrows Lane Lion[/cite]Let's make it simpler; Woolwich's problem is the amount of warring somali gangs that not only fight eachother but travel to Charlton, Plumstead, Welling, Eltham, Kidbrooke, Lee etc and have caused a lot of problems.
Sort them out and the fear & crime that goes along with it and you may have a chance.
Thats twice I've agreed with you now ;
Sorry Henry, but when an ugly B******* like me wont venture into Woolwich after dark then somethings not right. And Yes, its Somalli gangs. Thats the facts if they were white I'd say they were white. As everyone knows I live on Shootershill when using Woolwich Arsenal train station after dark I pay 8 quid to get a black cab up the hill rather than walk or getting the bus, after nine o/clock you cant get one because they wont take a chance on someone holding a knife to their throats for a couple of quid.
Those are the facts Henry its not rumour/gossip/hearsay.
I'll tell you what Henry, at 10.30 saturday night meet me at the cashpoints by Somerfields. Draw a tenner out of the hole in wall, then look me in the eye and tell me not s******* yourself ; )
I am going to agree with this, I am 6 ft + and pretty large and I live 5 minutes walk from Woolwich Arsenal Station, there is no way I would wander around Woolwich at night, it can be a seriously scary place, as for the cash machine I feel safer using my local shop and being charged nearly £2 for the privelige, I am not a racist in anyway and anyone who wants to call me that will find themselves in allsorts of bother, but I am afraid the gangs that are hanging around are Somali gangs.
6' 3" .............do me favour, meet Henry down Woolwich saturday night. I'm only 5'9" and too old and fat for fighting ; )
It is a sad state of affairs when people cannot walk around their local town after dark. What I will say is no area is perfect, only before the xmas just gone a friend of mine got a beating in Sidcup High Street late one night without any motive.
Regarding Woolwich, ever since I was at school i have heard that it is not the nicest place to live, however this is only a sign that it needs regeneration and any money that is spent on the town can only be positive. Places like this cannot be given up on and even though it will take time, it is possible for bad places to go good and vice versa!
[cite]Posted By: Sparrows Lane Lion Not the only answer, but it's better than having even more kids roaming the streets & parks if their parents can't control 'em.
From what I have seen and heard its not the kids you need worry about, the parents are doing a pretty good job themselves.
I have a mate who is a fireman in the area, you do not want to know the stories he tells me about the Woolwich, Plumstead & Thamesmede areas, he very rarely gets called out to fight a fire, nowadays its all about sorting out the chaos these imigrants are causing i.e. violence, domestic disputes, drug growing, people smuggling, its not kids I can assure you, some of the cases he tells me about involve Grandparents, you would have thought these are all issues for the Police but the brigade get dragged in too.
I have a 4 year old grandson growing up in Belvedere and I am very concerned about his future if they don't get out.
[quote][cite]Posted By: eaststandmike[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: Sparrows Lane Lion Not the only answer, but it's better than having even more kids roaming the streets & parks if their parents can't control 'em.[/cite][/quote][cite]
From what I have seen and heard its not the kids you need worry about, the parents are doing a pretty good job themselves. I have a mate who is a fireman in the area, you do not want to know the stories he tells me about the Woolwich, Plumstead & Thamesmede areas, he very rarely gets called out to fight a fire, nowadays its all about sorting out the chaos these imigrants are causing i.e. violence, domestic disputes, drug growing, people smuggling, its not kids I can assure you, some of the cases he tells me about involve Grandparents, you would have thought these are all issues for the Police but the brigade get dragged in too.
I have a 4 year old grandson growing up in Belvedere and I am very concerned about his future if they don't get out.[/cite][/quote]
In fairness I have seen a fire engine turn up to a fire and be pelted by white kids as well. I have a 14 year old he is a sensible lad and sticks to meeting his mates from school, but I do worry about him when he goes out, cannot wait to leave.
[cite]Posted By: cafcdan18[/cite]It is a sad state of affairs when people cannot walk around their local town after dark. What I will say is no area is perfect, only before the xmas just gone a friend of mine got a beating in Sidcup High Street late one night.
Regarding Woolwich, ever since I was at school i have heard that it is not the nicest place to live, however this is only a sign that it needs regeneration and any money that is spent on the town can only be positive. Places like this cannot be given up on and even though it will take time, it is possible for bad places to go good and vice versa!
Nice idea, maybe we could spend a couple of million quid illuminating General Gordon place making it into a nice area to sit and maybe install a fountain or two. The wino's appreciate a nice garden.
Unfortunately, until the rubbish is removed from the area you can chuck as much money as you like at it.
Then of course the problem will evolve somewhere else.
These gangs (and to be fair they are a large percentage somali) are beginning to spread further from Woolwich. You only have to go up Bexleyheath broadway at 3:45 on a week day and see it for yourself....... I think that was part of what I was getting at yesterday Gary..... The rundown boarded up shops is a precursor to a town loosing it's soul and heartbeat. Wether you like multi national chain stores or not, an empty high street leads to dead areas, which become no go areas after a while..... Having an anti- business council in the past did nothing for Woolwich town centre , which would have struggled due tolarge department stores closing during the 90s.
The question is why did the council not try and regenerate the empty shops into an enterprise zone for small businesses, and creative workshops as other areas rundown over the UK have done. Not turn it into another council run' advice shop'... Dodgey fake goods in the market hardly helped as well,The markets were good value, fresh produce and long standing tradespeople who were there next month, not later day 'delboys'.... Quite what the trading standards were doing besides sleeping is a mystery!. Amazes me that Shepherds Bush and other markets in London still offer good value for money as well as selling new ethnic products and foodstuff for the wider community!
Comments
You hit on a point that gets ignored a lot though, about more than just policing & coming down hard, but providing an outlet and something to do for the kids.
Far too many undeveloped plots of land or wasted fields around my area that should be developed on and provide sports facilities or youth centres, somewhere for kids to go and stuff to do.
Not the only answer, but it's better than having even more kids roaming the streets & parks if their parents can't control 'em.
No idea B, Cherry Orchard isn't Greenwich council anymore as far as I know, it's housing association owned
Thats twice I've agreed with you now ; )
Sorry Henry, but when an ugly B******* like me wont venture into Woolwich after dark then somethings not right. And Yes, its Somalli gangs. Thats the facts if they were white I'd say they were white. As everyone knows I live on Shootershill when using Woolwich Arsenal train station after dark I pay 8 quid to get a black cab up the hill rather than walk or getting the bus, after nine o/clock you cant get one because they wont take a chance on someone holding a knife to their throats for a couple of quid.
Those are the facts Henry its not rumour/gossip/hearsay.
I'll tell you what Henry, at 10.30 saturday night meet me at the cashpoints by Somerfields. Draw a tenner out of the hole in wall, then look me in the eye and tell me not s******* yourself ; )
We had a really good side on the pitch, but off it there was a big divide. They stole a mobile phone of one of our players and didnt even deny doing it. To say there was a few rows after is an understatement. The club ended up kicking them out, and we ended up with a new side halfway through the season. Wrongen's.
Sort them out and the fear & crime that goes along with it and you may have a chance.[/quote]
Thats twice I've agreed with you now ;
Sorry Henry, but when an ugly B******* like me wont venture into Woolwich after dark then somethings not right. And Yes, its Somalli gangs. Thats the facts if they were white I'd say they were white. As everyone knows I live on Shootershill when using Woolwich Arsenal train station after dark I pay 8 quid to get a black cab up the hill rather than walk or getting the bus, after nine o/clock you cant get one because they wont take a chance on someone holding a knife to their throats for a couple of quid.
Those are the facts Henry its not rumour/gossip/hearsay.
I'll tell you what Henry, at 10.30 saturday night meet me at the cashpoints by Somerfields. Draw a tenner out of the hole in wall, then look me in the eye and tell me not s******* yourself ; )[/quote]
I am going to agree with this, I am 6 ft + and pretty large and I live 5 minutes walk from Woolwich Arsenal Station, there is no way I would wander around Woolwich at night, it can be a seriously scary place, as for the cash machine I feel safer using my local shop and being charged nearly £2 for the privelige, I am not a racist in anyway and anyone who wants to call me that will find themselves in allsorts of bother, but I am afraid the gangs that are hanging around are Somali gangs.
6' 3" .............do me favour, meet Henry down Woolwich saturday night. I'm only 5'9" and too old and fat for fighting ; )
Regarding Woolwich, ever since I was at school i have heard that it is not the nicest place to live, however this is only a sign that it needs regeneration and any money that is spent on the town can only be positive. Places like this cannot be given up on and even though it will take time, it is possible for bad places to go good and vice versa!
From what I have seen and heard its not the kids you need worry about, the parents are doing a pretty good job themselves.
I have a mate who is a fireman in the area, you do not want to know the stories he tells me about the Woolwich, Plumstead & Thamesmede areas, he very rarely gets called out to fight a fire, nowadays its all about sorting out the chaos these imigrants are causing i.e. violence, domestic disputes, drug growing, people smuggling, its not kids I can assure you, some of the cases he tells me about involve Grandparents, you would have thought these are all issues for the Police but the brigade get dragged in too.
I have a 4 year old grandson growing up in Belvedere and I am very concerned about his future if they don't get out.
From what I have seen and heard its not the kids you need worry about, the parents are doing a pretty good job themselves.
I have a mate who is a fireman in the area, you do not want to know the stories he tells me about the Woolwich, Plumstead & Thamesmede areas, he very rarely gets called out to fight a fire, nowadays its all about sorting out the chaos these imigrants are causing i.e. violence, domestic disputes, drug growing, people smuggling, its not kids I can assure you, some of the cases he tells me about involve Grandparents, you would have thought these are all issues for the Police but the brigade get dragged in too.
I have a 4 year old grandson growing up in Belvedere and I am very concerned about his future if they don't get out.[/cite][/quote]
In fairness I have seen a fire engine turn up to a fire and be pelted by white kids as well. I have a 14 year old he is a sensible lad and sticks to meeting his mates from school, but I do worry about him when he goes out, cannot wait to leave.
Nice idea, maybe we could spend a couple of million quid illuminating General Gordon place making it into a nice area to sit and maybe install a fountain or two. The wino's appreciate a nice garden.
Unfortunately, until the rubbish is removed from the area you can chuck as much money as you like at it.
Then of course the problem will evolve somewhere else.
I think that was part of what I was getting at yesterday Gary..... The rundown boarded up shops is a precursor to a town loosing it's soul and heartbeat. Wether you like multi national chain stores or not, an empty high street leads to dead areas, which become no go areas after a while..... Having an anti- business council in the past did nothing for Woolwich town centre , which would have struggled due tolarge department stores closing during the 90s.
The question is why did the council not try and regenerate the empty shops into an enterprise zone for small businesses, and creative workshops as other areas rundown over the UK have done. Not turn it into another council run' advice shop'...
Dodgey fake goods in the market hardly helped as well,The markets were good value, fresh produce and long standing tradespeople who were there next month, not later day 'delboys'.... Quite what the trading standards were doing besides sleeping is a mystery!. Amazes me that Shepherds Bush and other markets in London still offer good value for money as well as selling new ethnic products and foodstuff for the wider community!