Unless you were born or live in Woolwich you cannot say a word against it.
It's a real poo hole! Pete F got it right.
Greenwich Council killed off Woolwich, when they hiked up business rates and failed to build the massive shopping centre where General Gordon Square now stands.
Ask Rothko and Inspector Sands about the lack of investment into Woolwich by a council that has sat on their collective backsides and collected their tidy Councillor allowances. Selling their collective souls to Tesco's won't help or heal the problems.
What I am sure of Henry is that, there is already potential for the young and prosporous to venture into Woolwich via the housing that available flats by the Woolwich ferry I believed were priced in excess of 350/500k, The refurbished office block now flats next to Sainsbury still mainly empty. The Woolwich Arsenal still with plenty of apartments available. The facts are Henry people dont want to live there. The 3 housing estates local to Woolwich are responsible for my housing insurance being so high, as quoted by my insurance company we live in a high risk area! One of those housing estates we had our first council house, I went to school a 100yards from where I'm sitting so I have seen the change and it is not good. Thats not to say every person in Woolwich is a bad one, but walk through the town centre in daylight and your hassled by women using children to beg for money, surrounded by rubbish and closed down shops/£ shops.
If I want a pair shoes and have £75 to spend |Woolwich cant accomodate me.
but I hope your right and the new railway increases the property prices and makes me a small fortune, then we're out of here ; )
[cite]Posted By: ken from bexley[/cite]Well some people seem to think that Bexleyheath is the new Woolwich, but without the heritage......
And I am not too over excited about Bexley as well!...... a couple of decent schools and a handful of buildings, is not the centre of cultural and educational excellence some might have you think!
What did one of the past leaders of the council say about 'Danson house'. the best thing it could do is fall down..... a real visionary there, and last time I checked with the Red house they had not received much money from Bexley council to maintain one of Bexley's finest residence, worthy of retention.!
No wonder my house is on the market at this time........
Bexley is the new Woolwich. Move to Woolwich now Ken, you'll thank me in 30 years time : - )
Woooaaahh, Bexleyheath is not the new Woolwich!!!...well, not just yet. A StarBurger gets built, then you can call it the new Woolwich.
[cite]Posted By: BDL[/cite]Unless you were born or live in Woolwich you cannot say a word against it.
It's a real poo hole! Pete F got it right.
Greenwich Council killed off Woolwich, when they hiked up business rates and failed to build the massive shopping centre where General Gordon Square now stands.
Ask Rothko and Inspector Sands about the lack of investment into Woolwich by a council that has sat on their collective backsides and collected their tidy Councillor allowances. Selling their collective souls to Tesco's won't help or heal the problems.
BDL,
Greenwich Council were aided and abetted by the government and the MOD when they finally shut the Royal Arsenal and a number of defence establishments in the area in the late 80s/early 90s. That took about 3500 jobs from the local economy.
The transfer of the University of Greenwich away from Woolwich also affected the local rented accommodation sector as well as taking jobs.
I am with Jorge on that, the Government of the day have to take part of the blame, but can you really blame the University moving to where they did? Greenwich Councils lack of ambition or any ideas for the past 20 years is what has failed Woolwich. the place was vibrant when I was growing up there in the 70s, The market was alive, the top names inthe high street were in Powis Street and in Cuffs and RACS you had two huge department stores.
[cite]Posted By: ValleyGary[/cite]Can see the Dartford one working, as its far enough out of London. Woolwich is a cack hole and always will be, no matter what you put there. Gotta agree with SLL (unfortunately).
As said above people would have said the same of Notting Hill, Spitalfields and Hoxton a few years ago.
Thing is they are all a doable walk home from the West End. Kings Cross is going the same way as well. London is becoming much more like Paris with the central areas being gentrified.
Woolwich just doesn't have that much to offer, it might improve and become more expensive to buy a house but it will take a lot to make it desirable.
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]yes the doable walk theory is correct but that makes you think why were these areas ever 'bad' in the first place if that is such an important factor.
And docklands and north greenwich are not that close to the west end yet have been regenerated albeit at great cost.
I agree that woolwich has a number of strucural issues to overcome but just dont be so quick to right it off.
Henry, as you are no doubt moving to Woolwich, I presume you will let us know when the house warming is :-)
Docklands and the marshes offered a blank canvas and still lack a bit of soul in my opinion. I'd still rather live in the two up two down I grew up in East Greenwich than most of the luxury apartments on Bugsbys with one local boozer and a sainsburys as the only 5 minute walk options.
Woolwich will be a good place to invest in a house, a bit like Stratford pre Olympics but as a place to live, not for me. Would love to be proved wrong though.
Would love to have the house in st marys st where my dad grew up in the 20s and 30s but im happy with bromley for now.
No doubt our children will move from the boring suburbs to the exciting boom town near the valley in a few years time ; - )
My mother-in-law lives in St Mary St and has for 40 plus years, my wife obviously grew up there. I know it very very well. I prefer Bromley and won't be moving over there.
Problem with the Isle of Dogs and North Greenwich is that they are completely soulless and characterless. I don't like it much around there at all as there is a such a lack of a buzz about the place.
Woolwich certainly doesn't lack a buzz....just not the one you want!
The regeneration of Kings Cross is owed to many factors. But they haven't solved the problems that plagued Kings Cross. They've merely forced them further up the road. It's unrecognisable to even 5 years ago and has a lot more planned for the area, but places further up like Kentish Town & Camden are suffering more problems.
Would love to have the house in st marys st where my dad grew up in the 20s and 30s but im happy with bromley for now.
No doubt our children will move from the boring suburbs to the exciting boom town near the valley in a few years time ; - )
Thats the point Henry,would you rather bring your children up in woolwich or leafy bromley?
A lot of the children that appear to live in gentrified islington, notting hill and docklands most probably got to private schools or schools that are further away from their home and are probably sheltered from the immediate world on their doorstep to a high degree.
Ive lived in elephant, bermondsey and bow in my time and I always thought id bring my children up in inner london but nowdays by the time i get round to having them wouldnt even want to send them to school in the outer london borough of bromley where i grew up as its changing all the time for youngsters and not for the better as i see it.
No disrespect to anyone from woolwich on here but from your description of what it is like now i dont think the yuppies that are going to be able to afford the gentrified houses etc would necessarily want to send their children to the local comps the way they are (im ignorant to schools in that area though so please correct me if they are good)
Bromley, which is one of the reasons I live there but that's not to say that those children won't want to move to somewhere that they see as more "interesting" and almost certainly cheaper when they are older. And if the quite common pattern is followed they will move out again when they are older.
Covered End, Maybe your mother in Law knew the Sims family. There were alot of them around but maybe before her time.
Buzz or not, and that is subjective, the places have been redeveloped and gone up market. How many people would look at Eltham and say "what a great buzz"
IMHO Woolwich's biggest problem will not be housing (plenty of that), the shops (loads of space) or transport (all getting better) but employment. Having lost the barracks, the Arsenal, Morgan Grampian, The Uni, The Woolwich Building society and more there aren't enough employed people in the town centre during the week to support shops and business by spending on food, drink, clothes, shoes, stationary. If the new home owners all commute then the town centre will find it that much harder to sustain the types of shops and restaurants that will give it a lift (ie pizza express rather than Southern Fried Chicken) and draw people in from the surrounding areas.
Let's make it simpler; Woolwich's problem is the amount of warring somali gangs that not only fight eachother but travel to Charlton, Plumstead, Welling, Eltham, Kidbrooke, Lee etc and have caused a lot of problems.
Sort them out and the fear & crime that goes along with it and you may have a chance.
[cite]Posted By: Sparrows Lane Lion[/cite]Let's make it simpler; Woolwich's problem is the amount of warring somali gangs that not only fight eachother but travel to Charlton, Plumstead, Welling, Eltham, Kidbrooke, Lee etc and have caused a lot of problems.
Sort them out and the fear & crime that goes along with it and you may have a chance.
Showing your true colours now, I see.
It was a sensible if light hearted debate but to you it is all the blacks' fault. No surprise as you really can't construct an argument beyond "you can't polish a turd" and repeating a few clichés and other people's stories in any case.
[cite]Posted By: Sparrows Lane Lion[/cite]Let's make it simpler; Woolwich's problem is the amount of warring somali gangs that not only fight eachother but travel to Charlton, Plumstead, Welling, Eltham, Kidbrooke, Lee etc and have caused a lot of problems.
Sort them out and the fear & crime that goes along with it and you may have a chance.
You are really beging to annoy me now
so far i have agreed with virtually every thing you have said even on the thread where you smashed us 4 nowt
please pish off i feel dirty
Henners as a Woolwich lad and one that still has a mother living in the area the amount of trouble these Somali gangs are causing especially down near the new build is extreemly worrying i have had more tahn my fair share of run ins with these people and i am only travelling through,
i dont think the point made was at all inflamatary
True colours? You keep making stuff up Henry. On countless threads you make unjustified jibes and insults.
You've only gone and twisted and lied yet again in the above post. If you want to twist things & inflame a debate that is up to you. You probably don't even realise the twisting you've done either, you're so blinkered.
What clichés have I come out with?
Can I not use my friends comments or family members experiences? Does it all have to be first hand experience? Do you know what first hand experience I have? Or are you just assuming things?
You live in Bromley. What do you know about Islington, Kings Cross, Eltham, etc that I don't?
Have a read of my post & yours and I'll await your apology for your Alastair Campbell-esque spin and twisting of ONE word in my post that makes a MASSIVE difference.
These gangs (and to be fair they are a large percentage somali) are beginning to spread further from Woolwich. You only have to go up Bexleyheath broadway at 3:45 on a week day and see it for yourself.
It's a cause and effect thing, the cause is losing 1,000s and 1,000s of high quality skilled manual and administive jobs from the town in the last 25 years, it's like the coal mining towns in the north, if you take that much out of an area it will die on it's arse. Also a less obvious legacy is that Woolwich wasn't included in the LDDC area, while on the north of the river, Beckton was, that investment would have had at least stopped the decline in the mid 80's early 90's.
The effect is a gang problem (mainly somali), 3 big sink estates, and a council who's focus has been on keeping a Labour MP in Eltham at the expense of the rest of the borough.
Can it be turned about? Of course, Henry is right about Notting Hill, Islington and parts of Hackney, the DLR has had a positive effect north of the Plumstead Road, however, that needs to be reflected in the rest of SE18. Demolition will begin this year on the Connaught Estate (the real problem area) for a new housing development which will change the demographics of the area, Crossrail (election result has a massive effect) will transform the area beyond recognition, and the Tescos Village will make a difference. However these changes need strong leadership from the council leadership, which I think is lacking, and or a willing housing association which is more likely (18 have declared interest in delivering the estates redevelopment).
In an odd way, a massive Tory win in Eltham might be good for Woolwich, as the council will be less likely to gerrymander that part of the borough, and Nick Raynsford will more then lilkely stand down in 2015, causing an almight fight in the local Labour party for the seat.
Connaught Estate is that the one just off of anglesea road ( i think it is) If so it should have been pulled down years a ago stinking hole of a place where most of the Somali gangs congregate and buy that amphet leaf in the somali cafe and resturant on anglesea road,
[cite]Posted By: nth london addick[/cite]Connaught Estate is that the one just off of anglesea road ( i think it is) If so it should have been pulled down years a ago stinking hole of a place where most of the Somali gangs congregate and buy that amphet leaf in the somali cafe and resturant on anglesea road,
Will make visiting mum a much nicer turn
Are we not missing the bigger picture here?
I was born in Calderwood St, moved to Kingsman St, then had a flat in Angelsea Rd before finally buying my first house in Welling at the age of 25, as you can see I spent the first 25 years of my life, living, working, shopping & socialising in Woolwich.
In addition to the above I was a member of a group/gang, call it what you like and I knew and mixed with some people that could do you some serious damage if need be, however it never got out of hand to the extent it has now and I can say hand on heart that none of the actions that I did, witnessed, or heard about ever caused a person or persons to want to leave their home or the area.
I still have reletives in the area and of course they are elderly now, however they are in the minority of decent folk, afraid to walk the streets in the day let alone the night, and why, because the police and local councils have lost the streets to these gangs of imigrants.
I agree with a lot of what has already been said on here, we can all dream but times move on so we could never expect to still be buying things from the likes of the Market or Cuffs etc, however until the councils, police and soppy PC brigade "grow some balls" and start standing up to these people nothing will improve, it will just get worse.
I have just moved from Bexleyheath to the Sevenoaks area after 20 years in the same home because of the same problems starting to develop in the Bexley area I can only hope that house prices draw a line somewhere to contain these gangs of low lifes from spreading because if it doesn't I dread to think where it will lead to in another 20 years.
To be fair to the police, they are now policing the area very hard at the moment, and upsetting the operation of the gangs in the area, huge stop and search was happening in Angelsea Road over the last few nights.
What will also help, is the army moving more troops into Woolwich, it'll mean that a lot of the army housing in the area will come back on stream, and more families will be back in the area.
Comments
It's a real poo hole! Pete F got it right.
Greenwich Council killed off Woolwich, when they hiked up business rates and failed to build the massive shopping centre where General Gordon Square now stands.
Ask Rothko and Inspector Sands about the lack of investment into Woolwich by a council that has sat on their collective backsides and collected their tidy Councillor allowances. Selling their collective souls to Tesco's won't help or heal the problems.
If I want a pair shoes and have £75 to spend |Woolwich cant accomodate me.
but I hope your right and the new railway increases the property prices and makes me a small fortune, then we're out of here ; )
Woooaaahh, Bexleyheath is not the new Woolwich!!!...well, not just yet. A StarBurger gets built, then you can call it the new Woolwich.
BDL,
Greenwich Council were aided and abetted by the government and the MOD when they finally shut the Royal Arsenal and a number of defence establishments in the area in the late 80s/early 90s. That took about 3500 jobs from the local economy.
The transfer of the University of Greenwich away from Woolwich also affected the local rented accommodation sector as well as taking jobs.
Thing is they are all a doable walk home from the West End. Kings Cross is going the same way as well. London is becoming much more like Paris with the central areas being gentrified.
Woolwich just doesn't have that much to offer, it might improve and become more expensive to buy a house but it will take a lot to make it desirable.
And docklands and north greenwich are not that close to the west end yet have been regenerated albeit at great cost.
I agree that woolwich has a number of strucural issues to overcome but just dont be so quick to right it off.
Henry, as you are no doubt moving to Woolwich, I presume you will let us know when the house warming is :-)
Woolwich will be a good place to invest in a house, a bit like Stratford pre Olympics but as a place to live, not for me. Would love to be proved wrong though.
Would love to have the house in st marys st where my dad grew up in the 20s and 30s but im happy with bromley for now.
No doubt our children will move from the boring suburbs to the exciting boom town near the valley in a few years time ; - )
My mother-in-law lives in St Mary St and has for 40 plus years, my wife obviously grew up there. I know it very very well. I prefer Bromley and won't be moving over there.
I'll be sticking with Bromley too as its where all true Charlton fans live but just expect the next generation to see it differently.
Woolwich certainly doesn't lack a buzz....just not the one you want!
The regeneration of Kings Cross is owed to many factors. But they haven't solved the problems that plagued Kings Cross. They've merely forced them further up the road. It's unrecognisable to even 5 years ago and has a lot more planned for the area, but places further up like Kentish Town & Camden are suffering more problems.
Thats the point Henry,would you rather bring your children up in woolwich or leafy bromley?
A lot of the children that appear to live in gentrified islington, notting hill and docklands most probably got to private schools or schools that are further away from their home and are probably sheltered from the immediate world on their doorstep to a high degree.
Ive lived in elephant, bermondsey and bow in my time and I always thought id bring my children up in inner london but nowdays by the time i get round to having them wouldnt even want to send them to school in the outer london borough of bromley where i grew up as its changing all the time for youngsters and not for the better as i see it.
No disrespect to anyone from woolwich on here but from your description of what it is like now i dont think the yuppies that are going to be able to afford the gentrified houses etc would necessarily want to send their children to the local comps the way they are (im ignorant to schools in that area though so please correct me if they are good)
Covered End, Maybe your mother in Law knew the Sims family. There were alot of them around but maybe before her time.
Buzz or not, and that is subjective, the places have been redeveloped and gone up market. How many people would look at Eltham and say "what a great buzz"
IMHO Woolwich's biggest problem will not be housing (plenty of that), the shops (loads of space) or transport (all getting better) but employment. Having lost the barracks, the Arsenal, Morgan Grampian, The Uni, The Woolwich Building society and more there aren't enough employed people in the town centre during the week to support shops and business by spending on food, drink, clothes, shoes, stationary. If the new home owners all commute then the town centre will find it that much harder to sustain the types of shops and restaurants that will give it a lift (ie pizza express rather than Southern Fried Chicken) and draw people in from the surrounding areas.
Sort them out and the fear & crime that goes along with it and you may have a chance.
Showing your true colours now, I see.
It was a sensible if light hearted debate but to you it is all the blacks' fault. No surprise as you really can't construct an argument beyond "you can't polish a turd" and repeating a few clichés and other people's stories in any case.
Might as well sink it now Admin.
You are really beging to annoy me now
so far i have agreed with virtually every thing you have said even on the thread where you smashed us 4 nowt
please pish off i feel dirty
Henners as a Woolwich lad and one that still has a mother living in the area the amount of trouble these Somali gangs are causing especially down near the new build is extreemly worrying i have had more tahn my fair share of run ins with these people and i am only travelling through,
i dont think the point made was at all inflamatary
You've only gone and twisted and lied yet again in the above post. If you want to twist things & inflame a debate that is up to you. You probably don't even realise the twisting you've done either, you're so blinkered.
What clichés have I come out with?
Can I not use my friends comments or family members experiences? Does it all have to be first hand experience? Do you know what first hand experience I have? Or are you just assuming things?
You live in Bromley. What do you know about Islington, Kings Cross, Eltham, etc that I don't?
Have a read of my post & yours and I'll await your apology for your Alastair Campbell-esque spin and twisting of ONE word in my post that makes a MASSIVE difference.
The effect is a gang problem (mainly somali), 3 big sink estates, and a council who's focus has been on keeping a Labour MP in Eltham at the expense of the rest of the borough.
Can it be turned about? Of course, Henry is right about Notting Hill, Islington and parts of Hackney, the DLR has had a positive effect north of the Plumstead Road, however, that needs to be reflected in the rest of SE18. Demolition will begin this year on the Connaught Estate (the real problem area) for a new housing development which will change the demographics of the area, Crossrail (election result has a massive effect) will transform the area beyond recognition, and the Tescos Village will make a difference. However these changes need strong leadership from the council leadership, which I think is lacking, and or a willing housing association which is more likely (18 have declared interest in delivering the estates redevelopment).
In an odd way, a massive Tory win in Eltham might be good for Woolwich, as the council will be less likely to gerrymander that part of the borough, and Nick Raynsford will more then lilkely stand down in 2015, causing an almight fight in the local Labour party for the seat.
Be decanted all over the borough, probably where people from the Ferrier are currently going (according to the council report on this).
The displacement of the Ferrier hasn't done many surrounding areas any favours! Hopefully this isn't the same. Something to look into I think.
Will make visiting mum a much nicer turn
Are we not missing the bigger picture here?
I was born in Calderwood St, moved to Kingsman St, then had a flat in Angelsea Rd before finally buying my first house in Welling at the age of 25, as you can see I spent the first 25 years of my life, living, working, shopping & socialising in Woolwich.
In addition to the above I was a member of a group/gang, call it what you like and I knew and mixed with some people that could do you some serious damage if need be, however it never got out of hand to the extent it has now and I can say hand on heart that none of the actions that I did, witnessed, or heard about ever caused a person or persons to want to leave their home or the area.
I still have reletives in the area and of course they are elderly now, however they are in the minority of decent folk, afraid to walk the streets in the day let alone the night, and why, because the police and local councils have lost the streets to these gangs of imigrants.
I agree with a lot of what has already been said on here, we can all dream but times move on so we could never expect to still be buying things from the likes of the Market or Cuffs etc, however until the councils, police and soppy PC brigade "grow some balls" and start standing up to these people nothing will improve, it will just get worse.
I have just moved from Bexleyheath to the Sevenoaks area after 20 years in the same home because of the same problems starting to develop in the Bexley area I can only hope that house prices draw a line somewhere to contain these gangs of low lifes from spreading because if it doesn't I dread to think where it will lead to in another 20 years.
What will also help, is the army moving more troops into Woolwich, it'll mean that a lot of the army housing in the area will come back on stream, and more families will be back in the area.
It'll take time, but it can be turned round