[cite]Posted By: Goonerhater[/cite]She gave us stealth tax
she asset striped industry (cars,ships,utilities,oil,mines) anything they could was sold and the rest (mainly the people) dumped
it was called a "Free Market where everything is on a level playing field" except for most of us we wasnt even at the ground when they were on the playing field. Yet the Tories wave the Union flag ??
[cite]Posted By: Cordoban Addick[/cite]I despised her at the time, but now after 20 years maturity and an appreciation of politics, people and economics learnt through life, experience and study. Well now I really fucking hate her. I will be throwing a street party when she dies.
Couldn't have put it better. My old man was one of the 1 in 10 back then and, as a result, towards the end of some weeks we could only afford to eat toast. I kid you not. That cow's policies ruined a large part of my childhood on a personal level and was responsible for ripping out the heart of our manufacturing industry, selling off cheaply our national assets to make a quick buck (which are now of course owned by the Fench, Germans, etc and we'll never get control back), was largely responsible for runaway house prices followed by huge debts and repossessions, (15% interest rates anyone?), wasted the North Sea oil income....and so on and so on...
[cite]Posted By: gilbertfilbert[/cite]I worked as an NHS doctor throughout her term, and saw the service virtually collapse around me. In essence, her politics was mean-spirited, even callous. She introduced the cult of macho-managerialism into the NHS, which was later to prevent the investment between 1997-2010 from having as much impact as it should have, Labour politicians having, for some reason, swallowed all the management consultancy gibberish. Nevertheless, the NHS is much better -- MUCH better -- now.
In that case the success must be down to Thatcher because Bliar, despite telling the British public he was going to reverse the 'Internal Market' within the NHS, he then told us he was going to strengthen the internal market as part of HIS plan to 'modernise' the NHS....
[cite]Posted By: CatAddick[/cite]Under Maggie I got to go to University where all my tuition fees were paid, and I got a full maintenance grant to live on. It was possible to get a good further education, regardless of your financial background
So it is really the Tories that supported socialism.
And there I was, always thinking that it was Labour!
I loathed Thatcher then and all that the old crone stood for. My opinion of her has not changed. Her and Ronald Reagan remember that ghastly little love in? Best line over their views on nuclear weapons- " She said she would follow him to the ends of the earth and he promised to help organise it" I hated the dreadful old bat just as much as she despised the likes of me. But still, it was a long time ago and we've all moved on .... ;-)
[cite]Posted By: Chunes[/cite]GH - I'm wondering how, given all that you said, did she ever manage to win 3 general elections?
Probably because there are a lot of people who think like RedZed333 ;-)
In 79 she won because Labour had messed up big time.
83 was solely down to the Falklands factor - prior to that her party's standing was at an all time low as her harsh "medicine" had upset and alienated millions and unemployment had soared.
I'm no expert but I do think some of the issues she attacked did need addressing ; overmaning; abuse of union power; Britains standing as "the sick man of Europe"
However, as someone said, she took a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
She was ruthless with her own citizens in her quest to improve Britains standing in the world.
Whilst certain issues had popular appeal, she created a widespread mentality of everyone for himself and sod anybody else which I believe endures to this day.
[cite]Posted By: Goonerhater[/cite]She gave us stealth tax
she asset striped industry (cars,ships,utilities,oil,mines) anything they could was sold and the rest (mainly the people) dumped
it was called a "Free Market where everything is on a level playing field" except for most of us we wasnt even at the ground when they were on the playing field. Yet the Tories wave the Union flag ??
Don't forget the asset stripping of the NHS, Pensions, Gold...
[cite]Posted By: gilbertfilbert[/cite]I worked as an NHS doctor throughout her term, and saw the service virtually collapse around me. In essence, her politics was mean-spirited, even callous. She introduced the cult of macho-managerialism into the NHS, which was later to prevent the investment between 1997-2010 from having as much impact as it should have, Labour politicians having, for some reason, swallowed all the management consultancy gibberish. Nevertheless, the NHS is much better -- MUCH better -- now.
In that case the success must be down to Thatcher because Bliar, despite telling the British public he was going to reverse the 'Internal Market' within the NHS, he then told us he was going to strengthen the internal market as part of HIS plan to 'modernise' the NHS....
No. The internal market has wasted a proportion of the extra money that has been invested in the NHS. The bureaucracy it requires is massive, it actually prevents the rational distribution of resources and arrangement of services; and money is wasted by slavishly pursuing the latest ill-informed but modish suggestions of the afore-mentioned management consultants. A market in cars or fruit and veg may be the best way of marrying demand with supply. In health-care, markets simply don't work: look at the USA. In any case, the NHS internal market is, in reality, a simulation of a market, replete with unproductive gaming and the waste of disproportionate amounts of effort on trifling matters. The stories I could tell....
[cite]Posted By: gilbertfilbert[/cite]I worked as an NHS doctor throughout her term, and saw the service virtually collapse around me. In essence, her politics was mean-spirited, even callous. She introduced the cult of macho-managerialism into the NHS, which was later to prevent the investment between 1997-2010 from having as much impact as it should have, Labour politicians having, for some reason, swallowed all the management consultancy gibberish. Nevertheless, the NHS is much better -- MUCH better -- now.
In that case the success must be down to Thatcher because Bliar, despite telling the British public he was going to reverse the 'Internal Market' within the NHS, he then told us he was going to strengthen the internal market as part of HIS plan to 'modernise' the NHS....
No. The internal market has wasted a proportion of the extra money that has been invested in the NHS. The bureaucracy it requires is massive, it actually prevents the rational distribution of resources and arrangement of services; and money is wasted by slavishly pursuing the latest ill-informed but modish suggestions of the afore-mentioned management consultants. A market in cars or fruit and veg may be the best way of marrying demand with supply. In health-care, markets simply don't work: look at the USA. In any case, the NHS internal market is, in reality, a simulation of a market, replete with unproductive gaming and the waste of disproportionate amounts of effort on trifling matters. The stories I could tell....
So where has the success that you speak of come from then...?
Shooters Hill Guru is saying it all for me. As Southerners we have no idea of the misery Thatcher inflicted on the North, which is why the tories can't even win up there today.
[cite]Posted By: thewolfboy[/cite]Shooters Hill Guru is saying it all for me.
As Southerners we have no idea of the misery Thatcher inflicted on the North, which is why the tories can't even win up there today.
Not as wide a gap as you'd expect.
In the NW Lab scored 1.292m votes.
Con scored 1.038m votes
In the Yorks & Humber Lab scored 821k
Con scored 769k
East Mids Lab scored 661k
Con scored 915k
West Mids Lab scored 808k
Con scored 1.044m votes
Was only the North East that Lab comprehensively beat the tories. Difference is of course when you look at how the votes are dispersed within those areas, with the inner city areas heavily in support of Labour.
[cite]Posted By: RedZed333[/cite] ...No, that would be the 3,000,000 that were left in the shite by a hopeless Labour government that led us into a worldwide recession...
What an utterly stupid comment! So the worldwide recession was caused by Gordon Brown and the Labour party? It had nothing to do with Cameron's and Osbourne's mates in the City and their banker mates in the rest of the world?
[cite]Posted By: RedZed333[/cite]...No, that would be the 3,000,000 that were left in the shite by a hopeless Labour government that led us into a worldwide recession...
What an utterly stupid comment! So the worldwide recession was caused by Gordon Brown and the Labour party? It had nothing to do with Cameron's and Osbourne's mates in the City and their banker mates in the rest of the world?
[cite]Posted By: RedZed333[/cite] When Thatcher took power in 1979 it was on the back of the worst worldwide recesion since the war, Labour led us into that...
I'm not saying Labour caused it, but they led it us headlong into without a clue of how to get out of it, Thatcher did know and she did succeed in making the Britain one of the most strongest and competitive nations in the world, until Bliar et al came along and fcuked it all up again...
If you'd read on you'd have seen the above quote..
[cite]Posted By: Sparrows Lane Lion[/cite]When the country was booming I thought the bankers were everyone's mates?
Brown certainly claimed plenty of credit when things were good.
When a few mistakes, mainly made in the US, exploded, it's all down to Cameron & Osborne mates? hahaha
And those mistakes in the US were made by Gordon Brown?
When things were going well Brown used to brag about how Britain was at the forefront of global financial success and how everyone else followed his model...
Soon as things went shit shaped it was bugger all to do with him...
she won 3 elections by movingher party from the Tory right to main stream. She did this by identifying what was called the P2s this was basically people in the middle ground and she won them over. She gave people that chance to buy shares (in companys they already owned !!) and gave them the chance to own their own hse--------the word is chance its was the carrot. Most people want to move up the social mobility ladder the chance was there.
[cite]Posted By: Sparrows Lane Lion[/cite]When the country was booming I thought the bankers were everyone's mates?
Brown certainly claimed plenty of credit when things were good.
When a few mistakes, mainly made in the US, exploded, it's all down to Cameron & Osborne mates? hahaha
And those mistakes in the US were made by Gordon Brown?
When things were going well Brown used to brag about how Britain was at the forefront of global financial success and how everyone else followed his model...
Soon as things went shit shaped it was bugger all to do with him...
His model? He came up with mortgage backed securities and hedge funds etc?
[cite] RedZed333[/cite] ...No, that would be the 3,000,000 that were left in the shite by a hopeless Labour government that led us into a worldwide recession...
Steady on "blue" eyes.
When Thatcher took over unemployment was 700,000.
3,000,000 was the price we had to pay for her "remedy".
2,300,000 don't suddenly become scroungers and the best her minions could offer was "get on your bike".
By the en of her reign she had become such a meglomaniac she did't even bother with cabinet but was guided by her inner circle of advisers; hence she was "stabbed" i nthe back by her own party.
Yes, you could argue she restored Britain's standing, but at the expense of real people.
[cite]Posted By: Sparrows Lane Lion[/cite]When the country was booming I thought the bankers were everyone's mates?
Brown certainly claimed plenty of credit when things were good.
When a few mistakes, mainly made in the US, exploded, it's all down to Cameron & Osborne mates? hahaha
And those mistakes in the US were made by Gordon Brown?
When things were going well Brown used to brag about how Britain was at the forefront of global financial success and how everyone else followed his model...
Soon as things went shit shaped it was bugger all to do with him...
His model? He came up with mortgage backed securities and hedge funds etc?
I think your mind is playing tricks on you.
It was Brown's mind that was playing tricks on him, he was deluded to think he was at the forefront of the global successes...
In reality he was just a pimple on the arse of macro finances that no one person/company/government/country/continent can control...
When things went pear shape he never had a clue how to deal with it, just like his predecesors...
[cite]RedZed333[/cite]...No, that would be the 3,000,000 that were left in the shite by a hopeless Labour government that led us into a worldwide recession...
Steady on "blue" eyes.
When Thatcher took over unemployment was 700,000.
3,000,000 was the price we had to pay for her "remedy".
2,300,000 don't suddenly become scroungers and the best her minions could offer was "get on your bike".
By the en of her reign she had become such a meglomaniac she did't even bother with cabinet but was guided by her inner circle of advisers; hence she was "stabbed" i nthe back by her own party.
Yes, you could argue she restored Britain's standing, but at the expense of real people.
When Thatcher took to power the world recession was still steam rollering on, unemployment was bound to increase, just like it will do now...
[cite]RedZed333[/cite]...No, that would be the 3,000,000 that were left in the shite by a hopeless Labour government that led us into a worldwide recession...
Steady on "blue" eyes.
When Thatcher took over unemployment was 700,000.
3,000,000 was the price we had to pay for her "remedy".
2,300,000 don't suddenly become scroungers and the best her minions could offer was "get on your bike".
By the en of her reign she had become such a meglomaniac she did't even bother with cabinet but was guided by her inner circle of advisers; hence she was "stabbed" i nthe back by her own party.
Yes, you could argue she restored Britain's standing, but at the expense of real people.
When Thatcher took to power the world recession was still steam rollering on, unemployment was bound to increase, just like it will do now...
As a matter of interest RedZed333, how old are you?
[cite]RedZed333[/cite]...No, that would be the 3,000,000 that were left in the shite by a hopeless Labour government that led us into a worldwide recession...
Steady on "blue" eyes.
When Thatcher took over unemployment was 700,000.
3,000,000 was the price we had to pay for her "remedy".
2,300,000 don't suddenly become scroungers and the best her minions could offer was "get on your bike".
By the en of her reign she had become such a meglomaniac she did't even bother with cabinet but was guided by her inner circle of advisers; hence she was "stabbed" i nthe back by her own party.
Yes, you could argue she restored Britain's standing, but at the expense of real people.
When Thatcher took to power the world recession was still steam rollering on, unemployment was bound to increase, just like it will do now...
As a matter of interest RedZed333, how old are you?
Comments
Oh yes. And what he said.
Couldn't have put it better. My old man was one of the 1 in 10 back then and, as a result, towards the end of some weeks we could only afford to eat toast. I kid you not. That cow's policies ruined a large part of my childhood on a personal level and was responsible for ripping out the heart of our manufacturing industry, selling off cheaply our national assets to make a quick buck (which are now of course owned by the Fench, Germans, etc and we'll never get control back), was largely responsible for runaway house prices followed by huge debts and repossessions, (15% interest rates anyone?), wasted the North Sea oil income....and so on and so on...
So it is really the Tories that supported socialism.
And there I was, always thinking that it was Labour!
My opinion of her has not changed.
Her and Ronald Reagan remember that ghastly little love in?
Best line over their views on nuclear weapons-
" She said she would follow him to the ends of the earth and he promised to help organise it"
I hated the dreadful old bat just as much as she despised the likes of me.
But still, it was a long time ago and we've all moved on .... ;-)
Probably because there are a lot of people who think like RedZed333 ;-)
In 79 she won because Labour had messed up big time.
83 was solely down to the Falklands factor - prior to that her party's standing was at an all time low as her harsh "medicine" had upset and alienated millions and unemployment had soared.
I'm no expert but I do think some of the issues she attacked did need addressing ; overmaning; abuse of union power; Britains standing as "the sick man of Europe"
However, as someone said, she took a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
She was ruthless with her own citizens in her quest to improve Britains standing in the world.
Whilst certain issues had popular appeal, she created a widespread mentality of everyone for himself and sod anybody else which I believe endures to this day.
Hold on, sorry that was Labour...
No. The internal market has wasted a proportion of the extra money that has been invested in the NHS. The bureaucracy it requires is massive, it actually prevents the rational distribution of resources and arrangement of services; and money is wasted by slavishly pursuing the latest ill-informed but modish suggestions of the afore-mentioned management consultants. A market in cars or fruit and veg may be the best way of marrying demand with supply. In health-care, markets simply don't work: look at the USA. In any case, the NHS internal market is, in reality, a simulation of a market, replete with unproductive gaming and the waste of disproportionate amounts of effort on trifling matters. The stories I could tell....
As Southerners we have no idea of the misery Thatcher inflicted on the North, which is why the tories can't even win up there today.
Not as wide a gap as you'd expect.
In the NW Lab scored 1.292m votes.
Con scored 1.038m votes
In the Yorks & Humber Lab scored 821k
Con scored 769k
East Mids Lab scored 661k
Con scored 915k
West Mids Lab scored 808k
Con scored 1.044m votes
Was only the North East that Lab comprehensively beat the tories. Difference is of course when you look at how the votes are dispersed within those areas, with the inner city areas heavily in support of Labour.
What an utterly stupid comment! So the worldwide recession was caused by Gordon Brown and the Labour party? It had nothing to do with Cameron's and Osbourne's mates in the City and their banker mates in the rest of the world?
Brown certainly claimed plenty of credit when things were good.
When a few mistakes, mainly made in the US, exploded, it's all down to Cameron & Osborne mates? hahaha
And those mistakes in the US were made by Gordon Brown?
Soon as things went shit shaped it was bugger all to do with him...
I didn't say they were. Nor am I linking them as best mates of Cameron and Osborne am I.
How can Brown take the credit for them when things are good, then you pin the mistakes on Cameron?
How long have Labour had time to apply taxes on bankers bonuses or implement tighter financial controls?
Not saying they should have, but why pin the blame on Cameron etc as well? Just silly.
Labour / Blair learnt this and copied it.
His model? He came up with mortgage backed securities and hedge funds etc?
I think your mind is playing tricks on you.
Labour = Working man's party. Conservatives = Posh c***s. Simples.
Nowadays, they're all shite - no socialist alternative, just shades of free-marketeering. F*** 'em all.
Steady on "blue" eyes.
When Thatcher took over unemployment was 700,000.
3,000,000 was the price we had to pay for her "remedy".
2,300,000 don't suddenly become scroungers and the best her minions could offer was "get on your bike".
By the en of her reign she had become such a meglomaniac she did't even bother with cabinet but was guided by her inner circle of advisers; hence she was "stabbed" i nthe back by her own party.
Yes, you could argue she restored Britain's standing, but at the expense of real people.
In reality he was just a pimple on the arse of macro finances that no one person/company/government/country/continent can control...
When things went pear shape he never had a clue how to deal with it, just like his predecesors...
As a matter of interest RedZed333, how old are you?