Anyway, back to the topic. Boris, you are a disgrace for lowering yourself - and dragging London's name with you - by offering bribes like this. You have seriously messed up this time. (Whatever school you went to).
[cite]Posted By: Chizz[/cite]Anyway, back to the topic. Boris, you are a disgrace for lowering yourself - and dragging London's name with you - by offering bribes like this. You have seriously messed up this time. (Whatever school you went to).
Quite. Boris offers a bribe, presumably at London taxpayer's expense in the hope that it might sway the executive menbers. We don't get it so he welches on the promise.
Haha chizz and the red wedge give it up, he is not a disgrace? Or is Ken saying he is and FIFA have been wronged, an interesting take, but one of Kens less contentious buddies I suppose. How is the south american link getting on anyway and the connections with the palestinians, the IRA, muslim terrorists? They were disgraceful.
[cite]Posted By: Chizz[/cite]Anyway, back to the topic. Boris, you are a disgrace for lowering yourself - and dragging London's name with you - by offering bribes like this. You have seriously messed up this
Post 32 dja vu all over again
Do the organising committee of the London Olympics not receive your ire?
especially as the updated news aeems to be that Boris cant over rule their offer?
[cite]Posted By: Jints[/cite]
Quite. Boris offers a bribe, presumably at London taxpayer's expense
Where on earth have you got this from?
Seriously, inform us please of you r source, so we can change our opinion based on reality?
The BBC website you cited in the oiginal post. If the offer of free luxury hotel accommodation isn't a bribe, I don't know what is. What would you call it?
I'm sorry, but I cannot let this comment pass unquestioned. Having been to, and taught at, a number of state and public schools, the teaching differs little, if at all. Good and bad, 'left' and 'right', inspirational and bone idle, teachers at both. In both systems students are motivated to overcome barriers, whatever they might be. The main difference is in class size and student behaviour
I am astonished that anyone could write that students are taught that it is their inalienable right to be in control. If there was a shred of evidence to back this up I would love to hear it. Personally it seems like someones Dickensian fantasy. ------------------------- Have a look at what Palash Dave has to say: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8622933.stm Then when you've done that, have a look at the following list of Old Etonians and ask yourself how it could possibly be that such a list of notable world leaders could have come from one school if the main differences were nothing more than class size and discipline. I'm not discounting that they have an effect, but there is clearly something bigger going on that that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_notable_Old_Etonians_born_in_the_20th_century
As a subsequent post pointed out, the rooms were booked by the London Olympic Organising Committee, and they in turn say they were to be paid for by those who stayed in them.
[quote][cite]Posted By: Stig[/cite]that students are taught that it is their inalienable right to be in control.[/quote]
Ok, done that, cant see any mention of your statement I have highlighted. So I stand by questioning that they are ''taught'' this.
Also I would compare Prime ministers only since around 1948 when British class system is acknowledged to have started to change. I dont think anyone would argue that the 'right' school was the main deciding factor in key jobs before then
The BBC website you cited in the oiginal post. If the offer of free luxury hotel accommodation isn't a bribe, I don't know what is.[/quote] This is Ken Livingstones fêting of Hugo Chávez during his state visit here in 2006 begs the question: why should public money be lavished on one of Latin America’s last dictatorships? When Livingstone recently visited Caracas to meet Chávez, the president cancelled the meeting due to lack of time, an embarrassing snub and further waste of taxpayers’ money
If the offer is announced I don't see that as a bribe that looks more like a thank you. A bribe to me is something that is done quietly in an underhand way.
I don't see how the offer of a few hotel rooms can compete with the offer of large sums of cash, allegedly.
[cite]Steve Dowman wittered:[/cite]Or was he a (minor) public school boy and counts that as a state education! might explain the bitterness to Eton, perhaps he went to Harrow and has always had a chip about Eton. I would imagine he went to a grammar and looks down on proles, hence his comments to curb it about enjoy the ferrier, I would be very surprised if he has ever had a drink in the Watt Tyler (no it is not a student uni bar) and knows the first thing about the ferrier. Be interested to know his schooling and profession seeing as I answered his questions. My guess would be somewhere like Chis and Sid or Colfes, but defo a posh grammar if the state school claim is as it seems.
If he's who I think he is, he went to a comp, actually.
To answer your question Mr. Dowman my education was obtained at the highly prestigious Bonus Pastor RC School on the extremely up-market Downham Estate, plenty of old Etonians round there I am sure you will agree.
I do know about the Ferrier, thanks, some of my family used to live there. Nothing wrong with that, I only said that remark in response to being called a "knob" by someone I don't even know. And it was to PL54 not to Curb It. I would certainly not address that sort of comment to a long-time CL member like her.
How you can claim that I am "bitter" about anything when you don't know me from a bar of soap probably says a lot more about you than me. As does your claim that I "look down on proles" when I have already told you that I lived on a council estate in Lewisham until my mid-teens. I only "look down" on wilful ignorance.
I have never knowingly met an Old Etonian and have no strong feelings about them either way, could not give a toss about them to be honest. You seem to be ultra-keen to defend them all the time, if that's how you like to pass your time then good luck to you, I am sure they really appreciate it.
Ormiston, still no word on how you came into your millions, something to hide?
I'm not defending etonians per se, just trying to work out the bitterness towards them, seems a bit odd venting your spleen against people you say you have never met. I don't particularly care about them myself, I'm not a class warrior.
No, the student protestors just want someone else to pay for their higher education which should give them a competitive advantage in the labour market, if they choose the right degrees.
[cite]Posted By: Steve Dowman[/cite]Ormiston, still no word on how you came into your millions, something to hide?
I'm not defending etonians per se, just trying to work out the bitterness towards them, seems a bit odd venting your spleen against people you say you have never met. I don't particularly care about them myself, I'm not a class warrior.
I don't have millions and am not bothered about doing so, I am happy earning a good living.
FYI, I am an industrial analyst covering the media and telecoms sectors.
You don't seem to read people's posts very well, do you? Where have I vented my spleen against anyone? I am not bothered at all by Old Etonians and actually like Boris Johnson as an individual, despite not sharing his politics.
[cite]Posted By: Floyd Montana[/cite]The BBC website you cited in the oiginal post. If the offer of free luxury hotel accommodation isn't a bribe, I don't know what is.[qute]
This is
Ken Livingstones fêting of Hugo Chávez during his state visit here in 2006 begs the question: why should public money be lavished on one of Latin America’s last dictatorships? When Livingstone recently visited Caracas to meet Chávez, the president cancelled the meeting due to lack of time, an embarrassing snub and further waste of taxpayers’ money
How is that a bribe? What has Livingstone got out of his 'friendship' with Chavez? 'Bribery' involves a kickback for the giver, either actual or expected.
Not that I'd condone "feting" Chavez.
[cite]Posted By: Chizz[/cite]Can someone explain what Boris should be congratulated for?
He attempted a bribe; it failed; he's now withdrawn it. So why, "well done"?
Who offered the accommdation? Was it LOCOG? If it was them, why?
If it was Boris who offered the accommodation, why?
Either way, I don't see how he should be congratulated for this. If it was LOCOG who offered the accommodation, then he shouldn't be criticised either.
Fair do's ormiston, I take back saying you vented your spleen against them, you are about the only one of the left who doesn't. I just don't care about them, they are generally plummy chinless wonders, but I don't see their success as a barrier to others. I guess with it being so expensive to go there they can select the brightest and most able so the success rates will be very high. I don't take into account someones schooling when interviewing, their quals yes, but the school no, intelligence and ability are more important.Personally I would never send my kids to a private/public school, but each to their own, it is easy for me to say as I don't live in London anymore so have access to reasonable state schools where I live.
[cite]Posted By: Floyd Montana[/cite]The BBC website you cited in the oiginal post. If the offer of free luxury hotel accommodation isn't a bribe, I don't know what is.[qute]
This is
Ken Livingstones fêting of Hugo Chávez during his state visit here in 2006 begs the question: why should public money be lavished on one of Latin America’s last dictatorships? When Livingstone recently visited Caracas to meet Chávez, the president cancelled the meeting due to lack of time, an embarrassing snub and further waste of taxpayers’ money
How is that a bribe? What has Livingstone got out of his 'friendship' with Chavez? 'Bribery' involves a kickback for the giver, either actual or expected.
Not that I'd condone "feting" Chavez.
[cite]Posted By: Chizz[/cite]Can someone explain what Boris should be congratulated for?
He attempted a bribe; it failed; he's now withdrawn it. So why, "well done"?
Who offered the accommdation? Was it LOCOG? If it was them, why?
If it was Boris who offered the accommodation, why?
Either way, I don't see how he should be congratulated for this. If it was LOCOG who offered the accommodation, then he shouldn't be criticised either.
Boris has good hair.
Edited to fix the quote box
Oh dear, Mr. Montana seems to spend so much time idolising Boris Johnson - and that's entirely up to him of course - that he has rather embarrassed himself regarding President Hugo Chavez of Venezuela.
President Chavez may or may not be driving Venezuela into an economic ditch but President Chavez is most certainly not presiding over one of "Latin America’s last dictatorships."
That claim is, I am afraid to say, complete and utter bollocks as anyone who has the first clue would be well aware.
Even Chavez's fiercest critics have to admit that he has won three fair elections since his first election win in 1998, he certainly cannot be accused of running a Dictatorship.
Whether he leaves the field willingly when the electorate finally vote him out - as they look likely to do at the next election - is another matter entirely.....
[cite]Posted By: Floyd Montana[/cite]As a subsequent post pointed out, the rooms were booked by the London Olympic Organising Committee, and they in turn say they were to be paid for by those who stayed in them.
OK, so how is Bors able to withdraw an offer he hasn't made (and indeed hasn't been made by anyone).
Either he did offer a bribe and then withdrew it.
Or he didn't have anything to do with it at all.
And what does Livingstone's crappy behaviour as Mayor have to do with anything?
Apologies Orms,
I actually dont idolise Boris. (though I can see my collection of selected facts may be a tad too vigorous!)
I got drawn into this because I felt the abusive criticism of him early in this thread seemed totally unfair and in need of some factual back up.
I have never voted for the tories and hold politicians in very low regard (with one notable exception having spent a good deal of time in Korea looking after an all party committee on Welsh affairs many years ago)
For the record, my personal view is that he seems less bad than the rest of them. He amuses me and I think he has his heart in the right place, especially for a tory.
The quote I should have sourced about Ken (which I shouldnt have dragged into this thread but did only as a comparison) was from Time Out's review of Kens tenure - their words not mine. I am sorry you feel Time Out's jury are talking b$%locks and dont have the first clue.
A BBC opinion page suggests his moves against elected bodies in the country has upset some, (but clearly not you!)
Headline from BBC opinion Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has justified the effective closure of Congress as part of a quest to reform the country's corruption-riddled public institutions.
Assembly member Jorge Olavarria tells the BBC that he sees the move as another step on the road to dictatorship. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/434486.stm
Many US papers see him as one too eg
This headline from the Miami Herald Venezuela's elected dictatorship
So contrary to you strong denials that no one would see him as a dictator, it seems that many do.
Having said that I am also not embarassed by these and many other such descriptions of him, having spent a month there two years ago in the company of some long term well, informed and very pissed off expat oil workers.
[cite]Posted By: Floyd Montana[/cite]
Many US papers see him as one too eg
This headline from the Miami Herald Venezuela's elected dictatorship
I'm not going to get into this thread, because it's pointless arguing back and forth. There's right wingers and left wingers on here - and that's fine by me. However, I couldn't let the above go unremarked. The Miami Herald isn't exactly known for it's support of left-wing causes. In fact, its been on the front line in the propaganda war against Cuba for decades. They're hardly likely to be 'sympathetic' to the Chavez administration! You may as well quote a headline on the Bush administration from Fox News!
[cite]Posted By: Steve Dowman[/cite]Fair do's ormiston, I take back saying you vented your spleen against them, you are about the only one of the left who doesn't. I just don't care about them, they are generally plummy chinless wonders, but I don't see their success as a barrier to others. I guess with it being so expensive to go there they can select the brightest and most able so the success rates will be very high. I don't take into account someones schooling when interviewing, their quals yes, but the school no, intelligence and ability are more important.Personally I would never send my kids to a private/public school, but each to their own, it is easy for me to say as I don't live in London anymore so have access to reasonable state schools where I live.
That's all well and good Dowman, but you fail to see the obvious. There are a limited number of opportunities 'at the top'. The more of these chinless ponces that undeservingly get into those positions, the less opportunities there are for others. Ipso facto, the 'system' is unfairly weighted in their favour. If there were less of the old school tie shit going on, more people who genuinely deserve it would have the opportunity to aim for those positions of power that Old Etonians, Harrovians and Christ-knows-where-else-ians occupy, and will continue to occupy.
Just because you don't perceive their 'success' as a barrier to others, because of your more rounded viewpoint, doesn't mean that it isn't a barrier.
Comments
Quite. Boris offers a bribe, presumably at London taxpayer's expense in the hope that it might sway the executive menbers. We don't get it so he welches on the promise.
And people are congratulating him! WTF!
Post 32 dja vu all over again
Do the organising committee of the London Olympics not receive your ire?
especially as the updated news aeems to be that Boris cant over rule their offer?
Where on earth have you got this from?
Seriously, inform us please of you r source, so we can change our opinion based on reality?
The BBC website you cited in the oiginal post. If the offer of free luxury hotel accommodation isn't a bribe, I don't know what is. What would you call it?
I'm sorry, but I cannot let this comment pass unquestioned.
Having been to, and taught at, a number of state and public schools, the teaching differs little, if at all.
Good and bad, 'left' and 'right', inspirational and bone idle, teachers at both.
In both systems students are motivated to overcome barriers, whatever they might be.
The main difference is in class size and student behaviour
I am astonished that anyone could write that students are taught that it is their inalienable right to be in control.
If there was a shred of evidence to back this up I would love to hear it. Personally it seems like someones Dickensian fantasy.
-------------------------
Have a look at what Palash Dave has to say: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8622933.stm
Then when you've done that, have a look at the following list of Old Etonians and ask yourself how it could possibly be that such a list of notable world leaders could have come from one school if the main differences were nothing more than class size and discipline. I'm not discounting that they have an effect, but there is clearly something bigger going on that that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_notable_Old_Etonians_born_in_the_20th_century
Ok, done that, cant see any mention of your statement I have highlighted.
So I stand by questioning that they are ''taught'' this.
Also I would compare Prime ministers only since around 1948 when British class system is acknowledged to have started to change.
I dont think anyone would argue that the 'right' school was the main deciding factor in key jobs before then
This is
Ken Livingstones fêting of Hugo Chávez during his state visit here in 2006 begs the question: why should public money be lavished on one of Latin America’s last dictatorships? When Livingstone recently visited Caracas to meet Chávez, the president cancelled the meeting due to lack of time, an embarrassing snub and further waste of taxpayers’ money
I don't see how the offer of a few hotel rooms can compete with the offer of large sums of cash, allegedly.
Anyway, well done Boris.
To answer your question Mr. Dowman my education was obtained at the highly prestigious Bonus Pastor RC School on the extremely up-market Downham Estate, plenty of old Etonians round there I am sure you will agree.
I do know about the Ferrier, thanks, some of my family used to live there. Nothing wrong with that, I only said that remark in response to being called a "knob" by someone I don't even know. And it was to PL54 not to Curb It. I would certainly not address that sort of comment to a long-time CL member like her.
How you can claim that I am "bitter" about anything when you don't know me from a bar of soap probably says a lot more about you than me. As does your claim that I "look down on proles" when I have already told you that I lived on a council estate in Lewisham until my mid-teens. I only "look down" on wilful ignorance.
I have never knowingly met an Old Etonian and have no strong feelings about them either way, could not give a toss about them to be honest. You seem to be ultra-keen to defend them all the time, if that's how you like to pass your time then good luck to you, I am sure they really appreciate it.
He attempted a bribe; it failed; he's now withdrawn it. So why, "well done"?
You really dont get it do you?
good old bozza
I'm not defending etonians per se, just trying to work out the bitterness towards them, seems a bit odd venting your spleen against people you say you have never met. I don't particularly care about them myself, I'm not a class warrior.
is that what the student protestors are?
I don't have millions and am not bothered about doing so, I am happy earning a good living.
FYI, I am an industrial analyst covering the media and telecoms sectors.
You don't seem to read people's posts very well, do you? Where have I vented my spleen against anyone? I am not bothered at all by Old Etonians and actually like Boris Johnson as an individual, despite not sharing his politics.
How is that a bribe? What has Livingstone got out of his 'friendship' with Chavez? 'Bribery' involves a kickback for the giver, either actual or expected.
Not that I'd condone "feting" Chavez.
Who offered the accommdation? Was it LOCOG? If it was them, why?
If it was Boris who offered the accommodation, why?
Either way, I don't see how he should be congratulated for this. If it was LOCOG who offered the accommodation, then he shouldn't be criticised either.
Boris has good hair.
Edited to fix the quote box
Oh dear, Mr. Montana seems to spend so much time idolising Boris Johnson - and that's entirely up to him of course - that he has rather embarrassed himself regarding President Hugo Chavez of Venezuela.
President Chavez may or may not be driving Venezuela into an economic ditch but President Chavez is most certainly not presiding over one of "Latin America’s last dictatorships."
That claim is, I am afraid to say, complete and utter bollocks as anyone who has the first clue would be well aware.
Even Chavez's fiercest critics have to admit that he has won three fair elections since his first election win in 1998, he certainly cannot be accused of running a Dictatorship.
Whether he leaves the field willingly when the electorate finally vote him out - as they look likely to do at the next election - is another matter entirely.....
OK, so how is Bors able to withdraw an offer he hasn't made (and indeed hasn't been made by anyone).
Either he did offer a bribe and then withdrew it.
Or he didn't have anything to do with it at all.
And what does Livingstone's crappy behaviour as Mayor have to do with anything?
I actually dont idolise Boris. (though I can see my collection of selected facts may be a tad too vigorous!)
I got drawn into this because I felt the abusive criticism of him early in this thread seemed totally unfair and in need of some factual back up.
I have never voted for the tories and hold politicians in very low regard (with one notable exception having spent a good deal of time in Korea looking after an all party committee on Welsh affairs many years ago)
For the record, my personal view is that he seems less bad than the rest of them. He amuses me and I think he has his heart in the right place, especially for a tory.
The quote I should have sourced about Ken (which I shouldnt have dragged into this thread but did only as a comparison) was from Time Out's review of Kens tenure - their words not mine. I am sorry you feel Time Out's jury are talking b$%locks and dont have the first clue.
A BBC opinion page suggests his moves against elected bodies in the country has upset some, (but clearly not you!)
Headline from BBC opinion
Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has justified the effective closure of Congress as part of a quest to reform the country's corruption-riddled public institutions.
Assembly member Jorge Olavarria tells the BBC that he sees the move as another step on the road to dictatorship.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/434486.stm
Many US papers see him as one too eg
This headline from the Miami Herald
Venezuela's elected dictatorship
So contrary to you strong denials that no one would see him as a dictator, it seems that many do.
Having said that I am also not embarassed by these and many other such descriptions of him, having spent a month there two years ago in the company of some long term well, informed and very pissed off expat oil workers.
Just because you don't perceive their 'success' as a barrier to others, because of your more rounded viewpoint, doesn't mean that it isn't a barrier.