Sectarianism throughout history has not been restricted to Ireland and the singing of songs at football matches by morons who know no better. It is an evil that has blighted civilisation in it's many forms and guises whether that be Bosnia, Iraq, Nazi Germany or indeed in Ireland and should be condemned at every opportunity.
I agree with your anti sectarianism, I presume that is why you are against islam, being that they are so sectarian, against different parts of islam as well as christians and jews.
What I don't understand is why you are blaming ulster loyalists for everything. Give the guys a break SHG, just what is your beef with them? Were you run by rangers fans once?
Besides, you forgot to mention communist countries in your rant against sectarianism, though I would imagine it is all the fault of the right wing capitalist pigs anyway in your mind.
[cite]Posted By: Steve Dowman[/cite]I agree with your anti sectarianism, I presume that is why you are against islam, being that they are so sectarian, against different parts of islam as well as christians and jews.
What I don't understand is why you are blaming ulster loyalists for everything. Give the guys a break SHG, just what is your beef with them? Were you run by rangers fans once?
Besides, you forgot to mention communist countries in your rant against sectarianism, though I would imagine it is all the fault of the right wing capitalist pigs anyway in your mind.
I just can't be arsed to respond to be honest. Lifes too short.
Because you have nothing worthwhile to say. Irish catholics don't need your support thanks, go support a minority that does, only get youself better briefed beforehand, listen to a few first rather than reading the old left rhetoric or you will end up looking a fool again.
Because you have nothing worthwhile to say. Irish catholics don't need your support thanks, go support a minority that does, only get youself better briefed beforehand, listen to a few first rather than reading the old left rhetoric or you will end up looking a fool again.
[cite]Posted By: Steve Dowman[/cite]Because you have nothing worthwhile to say. Irish catholics don't need your support thanks, go support a minority that does, only get youself better briefed beforehand, listen to a few first rather than reading the old left rhetoric or you will end up looking a fool again.
You know nothing about my family history or anything about why I hold my views. As for your views well let's just say they are born of ignorance at best or out of hatred at worst I suspect the former.
[cite]Posted By: Steve Dowman[/cite]Because you have nothing worthwhile to say. Irish catholics don't need your support thanks, go support a minority that does, only get youself better briefed beforehand, listen to a few first rather than reading the old left rhetoric or you will end up looking a fool again.
[cite]Posted By: Steve Dowman[/cite]Because you have nothing worthwhile to say. Irish catholics don't need your support thanks, go support a minority that does, only get youself better briefed beforehand, listen to a few first rather than reading the old left rhetoric or you will end up looking a fool again.
Why don't you take off your 'Rangers' goggles and your 'Everyone who disagrees with me is a 'woolly Guardian reading left wing do gooder' goggles once in a while. You respond to everthing with the same rant like a Thacherite blue rinsed old woman!
[cite]Posted By: leftbehind[/cite]
Red_in_SE8
Are you for real
I pulled a poster up on an outragious racist post i.e. it was fine by him that negroes were refused service in restaurants in the Southern Staes of the USA in the early 60's. Maybe you hold the same view. Fine, you are entitled to it. But if you post it on here you have to agree I am entitled to react to it.
In addition to pulling him up on the racist comment I referred to the avatar he uses. This symbol forms a major part of the iconography of several terrorist groups who are responsible for the murder of 100's if not 1000's of innocent UK citizens over the last 30 years. I find that sick. Again, maybe you don't.
Is it flown by Belfast City Council? It's definitely not used in any official capacity by the government of Northern Ireland. I'm sure the Union Jack is flown by Belfast City Council, but doubt the Ulster Banner is used. If you have a link/pic, please share. I googled Belfast City Hall and can't see any flags in the images.
Sporting events? Yeah, cos Wales and Faroe Islands are real countries nowadays if sporting events say so... Besides, nationalists in Northern Ireland tend to avoid Windsor Park and the NI football team.
Are you for real[/quote] I pulled a poster up on an outragious racist post i.e. it was fine by him that negroes were refused service in restaurants in the Southern Staes of the USA in the early 60's. Maybe you hold the same view. Fine, you are entitled to it. But if you post it on here you have to agree I am entitled to react to it.
In addition to pulling him up on the racist comment I referred to the avatar he uses. This symbol forms a major part of the iconography of several terrorist groups who are responsible for the murder of 100's if not 1000's of innocent UK citizens over the last 30 years. I find that sick. Again, maybe you don't.[/quote]
Also part of the flag of the country so you only see the bad side
Wow a picture how many pictures of other flags other groups could we post up
Oh well are parkhead the lad with the tri colour with IRA on it does not mean all Irish are that way
How many times does it have to be said? The Ulster Banner is NOT the flag of Northern Ireland. It stopped being the flag of Northern Ireland in 1972. That's 38 years ago.
Repeat: It is not the flag of Northern Ireland.
In the meantime, it's been taken by Loyalist groups as a symbol for them. Making it a political symbol.
That said, Red_in_SE8 is wrong about the red hand being just a symbol for the Loyalist side. Tyrone GAA use the red hand on their crest. And it's not just nationalists who get offended at it. Unionists do too. Same story, but more info.
It's the combination of the red hand, the crown and the six pointed star that makes D_F_T's avatar a loyalist symbol, as well as the context.
Context is important as to why some people get offended. Many nationalists see the Ulster Banner as a symbol of the pre-72 NI government that rigged elections, colluded with loyalist paramilitaries and generally oppressed catholics. Many unionists see the GAA as a hostile nationalist organisation that flies the Irish flag and plays the Irish national anthem before every match (even in Northern Ireland). Some would see the GAA as the IRA's sporting wing.
[cite]Posted By: leftbehind[/cite]
So do us a favour and fuck off
Wow! I am the victim of cyber abuse! I feel like Stephen Fry. Maybe now you are going to launch a homophobic rant.
In trying to understand your apoplectic rage on this matter (racism and use of terrorist group icons) I researched some of your previous posts and now realise that you are one of the fanatical Rangers supporters who always insist on posting on here.
[cite]Posted By: IA[/cite]How many times does it have to be said? The Ulster Banner is NOT the flag of Northern Ireland. It stopped being the flag of Northern Ireland in 1972. That's 38 years ago.
Repeat: It is not the flag of Northern Ireland.
In the meantime, it's been taken by Loyalist groups as a symbol for them. Making it a political symbol.
That said, Red_in_SE8 is wrong about the red hand being just a symbol for the Loyalist side. Tyrone GAA use the red hand on their crest. And it's not just nationalists who get offended at it.Unionists do too.Same story, but more info.
It's the combination of the red hand, the crown and the six pointed star that makes D_F_T's avatar a loyalist symbol, as well as the context.
Context is important as to why some people get offended. Many nationalists see the Ulster Banner as a symbol of the pre-72 NI government that rigged elections, colluded with loyalist paramilitaries and generally oppressed catholics. Many unionists see the GAA as a hostile nationalist organisation that flies the Irish flag and plays the Irish national anthem before every match (even in Northern Ireland). Some would see the GAA as the IRA's sporting wing.
IA you make some interesting points, and more importantly, present some facts which I was not aware of. However, I would contest one point. I have never believed, and I don't think I posted the view in this thread (intentionally anyway), that the Red Hand of Ulster is solely a Loyalist icon. As you say, it is the context that determines how you should view its use.
[cite]Posted By: Red_in_SE8[/cite]In addition to pulling him up on the racist comment I referred to the avatar he uses. This symbol forms a major part of the iconography of several terrorist groups who are responsible for the murder of 100's if not 1000's of innocent UK citizens over the last 30 years. I find that sick. Again, maybe you don't.
This was what I was referring to. My wording was clumsy, I'm sorry. It's just that when people refer to 'loyalist symbol', they usually mean the red hand rather than the combination of the hand, star and crown.
Symbols, flags and words cause a huge amount of controversy and deeply held resentment on both sides of the divide in Northern Ireland, according to people I know from there. As a result, I don't think Northern Ireland has any intention of developing a flag of its own any time soon. And both the UK and Irish flags can be seen as controversial, despite the fact that both of them are inclusive in their design and meaning (the red X in the former signifies Ireland, while the orange in the latter signifies the orange/unionist community and the white means peace between the two groups). It would probably be better if people with no real connection to Northern Ireland avoided throwing about these symbols on either side, and almost definitely for the best if Celtic and Rangers were just football teams rather than pseudo-political movements.
Also, and this isn't to you, it's a bit lazy to assume that protestants are unionist and catholics are nationalist. Plenty of people aren't religious any more, and besides, I've met a few unionist catholics and nationalist protestants from various parts of Northern Ireland.
Comments
What I don't understand is why you are blaming ulster loyalists for everything. Give the guys a break SHG, just what is your beef with them? Were you run by rangers fans once?
Besides, you forgot to mention communist countries in your rant against sectarianism, though I would imagine it is all the fault of the right wing capitalist pigs anyway in your mind.
why hasnt this tread been sunk already? its 10 mins old and top of the forum ;-)
Lol it took 5 days!!!
I just can't be arsed to respond to be honest. Lifes too short.
You know nothing about my family history or anything about why I hold my views. As for your views well let's just say they are born of ignorance at best or out of hatred at worst I suspect the former.
Why not pop in and ask them
"Maybe he could just tell us instead of doing the usual thing him and his con club cronies do, post something offensive then leg it."
Red_in_SE8
Are you for real
easy there tiger
I pulled a poster up on an outragious racist post i.e. it was fine by him that negroes were refused service in restaurants in the Southern Staes of the USA in the early 60's. Maybe you hold the same view. Fine, you are entitled to it. But if you post it on here you have to agree I am entitled to react to it.
In addition to pulling him up on the racist comment I referred to the avatar he uses. This symbol forms a major part of the iconography of several terrorist groups who are responsible for the murder of 100's if not 1000's of innocent UK citizens over the last 30 years. I find that sick. Again, maybe you don't.
Sporting events? Yeah, cos Wales and Faroe Islands are real countries nowadays if sporting events say so... Besides, nationalists in Northern Ireland tend to avoid Windsor Park and the NI football team.
Link
Seriously, if the Union Jack is 'at risk', there's no way the Ulster Banner is flown. Link needed before I'd believe you
Red_in_SE8
Are you for real[/quote]
I pulled a poster up on an outragious racist post i.e. it was fine by him that negroes were refused service in restaurants in the Southern Staes of the USA in the early 60's. Maybe you hold the same view. Fine, you are entitled to it. But if you post it on here you have to agree I am entitled to react to it.
In addition to pulling him up on the racist comment I referred to the avatar he uses. This symbol forms a major part of the iconography of several terrorist groups who are responsible for the murder of 100's if not 1000's of innocent UK citizens over the last 30 years. I find that sick. Again, maybe you don't.[/quote]
Also part of the flag of the country so you only see the bad side
Wow a picture how many pictures of other flags other groups could we post up
Oh well are parkhead the lad with the tri colour with IRA on it does not mean all Irish are that way
So do us a favour and fuck off
Repeat: It is not the flag of Northern Ireland.
In the meantime, it's been taken by Loyalist groups as a symbol for them. Making it a political symbol.
That said, Red_in_SE8 is wrong about the red hand being just a symbol for the Loyalist side. Tyrone GAA use the red hand on their crest. And it's not just nationalists who get offended at it. Unionists do too. Same story, but more info.
It's the combination of the red hand, the crown and the six pointed star that makes D_F_T's avatar a loyalist symbol, as well as the context.
Context is important as to why some people get offended. Many nationalists see the Ulster Banner as a symbol of the pre-72 NI government that rigged elections, colluded with loyalist paramilitaries and generally oppressed catholics. Many unionists see the GAA as a hostile nationalist organisation that flies the Irish flag and plays the Irish national anthem before every match (even in Northern Ireland). Some would see the GAA as the IRA's sporting wing.
East Stirlingshire myself !
;-)
And, I do find any form of racism Wrong.
Wow! I am the victim of cyber abuse! I feel like Stephen Fry. Maybe now you are going to launch a homophobic rant.
In trying to understand your apoplectic rage on this matter (racism and use of terrorist group icons) I researched some of your previous posts and now realise that you are one of the fanatical Rangers supporters who always insist on posting on here.
IA you make some interesting points, and more importantly, present some facts which I was not aware of. However, I would contest one point. I have never believed, and I don't think I posted the view in this thread (intentionally anyway), that the Red Hand of Ulster is solely a Loyalist icon. As you say, it is the context that determines how you should view its use.
This was what I was referring to. My wording was clumsy, I'm sorry. It's just that when people refer to 'loyalist symbol', they usually mean the red hand rather than the combination of the hand, star and crown.
Symbols, flags and words cause a huge amount of controversy and deeply held resentment on both sides of the divide in Northern Ireland, according to people I know from there. As a result, I don't think Northern Ireland has any intention of developing a flag of its own any time soon. And both the UK and Irish flags can be seen as controversial, despite the fact that both of them are inclusive in their design and meaning (the red X in the former signifies Ireland, while the orange in the latter signifies the orange/unionist community and the white means peace between the two groups). It would probably be better if people with no real connection to Northern Ireland avoided throwing about these symbols on either side, and almost definitely for the best if Celtic and Rangers were just football teams rather than pseudo-political movements.
Also, and this isn't to you, it's a bit lazy to assume that protestants are unionist and catholics are nationalist. Plenty of people aren't religious any more, and besides, I've met a few unionist catholics and nationalist protestants from various parts of Northern Ireland.