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Leyton Orient fear extinction

This just doesn't sit easy with me................................ any thoughts?

Leyton Orient say the club could go out of business if Tottenham or West Ham are awarded use of the nearby Olympic Stadium after the 2012 Games.
The Premier League sides are battling to be named as preferred bidder to take over the £500m east London venue.
With a decision due on Friday, Orient believe their future is under threat.
"It is tragic to think the true legacy of the Olympic Games could be the death of one of football's most-established community clubs," said a statement.
Tottenham, together with the AEG Group, want to turn the stadium at Stratford into a football-only venue while West Ham, in conjunction with Newham Council, would keep the running track.
The Olympic Park Legacy Company is due to decide on Friday which is its preferred bidder.
But Orient, whose Brisbane Road ground is about two miles by road from Stratford and four miles from West Ham's current home at Upton Park, believe they could be endangered by either plan.
The statement from the board of directors said any such move would place "a huge question mark over our long-term viability at Brisbane Road".
Orient, whose home was originally built in 1937, are worried the prospect of a larger stadium nearby which allowed for cheaper Premier League tickets would rob them of casual fans.
West Ham have indicated cheaper tickets will be made available to schools in an effort to fill a 60,000-capacity venue should the Hammers take over.
"The prospect of excess capacity leading to discounted tickets and the broader appeal of floating fans of a more high-profile club threatens to swamp us," the statement said.
Orient pointed to Premier League and Football League rules which state that consent shall only be given for clubs to move if it "would not adversely affect clubs having their registered grounds in the immediate vicinity of the proposed location".
Their statement added: "The club has appealed to the Premier League and the Football League, both of whom would be in breach of their own regulations if they were to sanction a move for either West Ham United or Tottenham Hotspur, but the silence is deafening...

DISTANCES BY ROAD
Orient-Stratford: 2.1 miles
Orient-West Ham: 4.2 miles
Upton Park-Stratford: 2.4 miles
Spurs-Stratford: 7.1 miles
(Distances: AA route planner)
"Brisbane Road sits one long goal-kick from the Olympic Park, there is no question that it is within the 'immediate vicinity'.
"Surely their boards will recognise this at their respective meetings when the application to move ground comes in from either West Ham United or Tottenham Hotspur?
"All parties must endeavour to find a solution which will satisfy all parties and whilst we are sure there will always be a Leyton Orient we can't take it for granted, sit back and be steamrollered out of existence. At this time, our voice must be heard."
The battle to take over at the Olympic Stadium has been fiercely fought.
In October, West Ham co-chairman David Sullivan reportedly said a Tottenham move would prompt "real problems that could easily lead to civil unrest".
But Leyton Orient chairman Barry Hearn accused Sullivan of hypocrisy.
"If [Sullivan] is worried about Tottenham then he can only begin to have sleepless nights about the aggravation I'm going to give him if he moves on my doorstep," Hearn told the Evening Standard.
"This is total hypocrisy on his part. This is a case of Tescos moving next to the little sweet shop on the corner. It means a death knell for Leyton Orient, London's second-oldest club."
Leyton Orient were founded in 1881, two years after Fulham.
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Comments

  • I think its a load of old tosh, do you really think west ham moving 2 miles up the road could end Orient fc? They already do kids for a quid on lots of games so i really cant see it makes any difference. If they are going to go under they will anyway, think its Hearn just trying to get a little ompensation payout. Lets face it he's never cared who's toes he's trod on to get where he is.
  • What Uncle said, Chelsea, Fulham and QPR all play in the same borough.
  • West Ham or Spurs using the Olympic Stadium alone, regardless of its location, would halve Orient's attendance, since 1/2 of their season ticket holders would then be able to get a seat at their first choice club every week...
  • [cite]Posted By: liamhappe[/cite]West Ham or Spurs using the Olympic Stadium alone, regardless of its location, would halve Orient's attendance, since 1/2 of their season ticket holders would then be able to get a seat at their first choice club every week...
    Tough shit. if a club exists as a going concern solely as a 'second choice' for fans of an other club, then that club doesn't have much of a sound footing to begin with.
  • edited January 2011
    I hope whenever who ever it is takes it over and they pay to get the site all the london council tax payers can get a little rebate on all the money that has gone in some small way to aid it's construction.
  • I'm not so unsympathetic to the O's , they have survived not thrived since the golden decade in the 70's and early 80's when they spent 10 years in the old Second Division ( same level as the Championship ) .

    Even then they were well known as being people's 'second team' not many support them probably a hardcare of 3 or 4k . Their fan base is supplemented by casual Arsenal , Spurs and Wham fans who have been priced out of the Prem .

    In the last five years they have completely renovated Brisbane Road by selling off the corners to property developers and sharing the main stand with the local NHS Poly Clinic to both obtain the funding but also to make a genuine contribution to the local community . Therefore they have been extremely creative in creating different revenues and funding ground improvements .
  • [quote][cite]Posted By: Friend Or Defoe[/cite]What Uncle said, Chelsea, Fulham and QPR all play in the same borough.[/quote]

    True - but how would we react if West Ham (or Spurs) wanted to move to the Dome area (which is about as far from Upton Park as the Olympic Stadium)?
  • Sounds like a negotiating position being set up to me.

    Orient will want some kind of compensation so as not create waves.
  • [cite]Posted By: micks1950[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: Friend Or Defoe[/cite]What Uncle said, Chelsea, Fulham and QPR all play in the same borough.

    True - but how would we react if West Ham (or Spurs) wanted to move to the Dome area (which is about as far from Upton Park as the Olympic Stadium)?

    It might be about the same distance but its a different part of London so that to me is a big difference. Orient have always been the club down the road from west ham and have not complained when west ham supporters turn up to watch when there is an away game they couldn't get tickets for.
  • Perhaps Orient could share with yer actual 'ammers?!!
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  • How do Leyton FC survive with Orient around the corner?

    The fixture list will be arranged so that the Olympic Stadium side and Orient don't play home games on the same day.

    Orient have a loyal fan base, don't punch above their weight and make money each season. They don't just exist to be a fan's second team, how patronising.
  • edited January 2011
    [cite]Posted By: uncle[/cite]Orient have always been the club down the road from west ham and have not complained when west ham supporters turn up to watch when there is an away game they couldn't get tickets for.

    This is of course true. This is why I can see Hearn that this stance is more getting some dosh out of West Ham, than anything else.

    Football is littered with clubs in very close proximity to one another. How far apart are Liverpool and Everton for example?

    I can't see how this is going to make much difference to the Os.

    I know that Orient were originally looking into the possibility of moving to the Olympic Stadium but something changed their minds or went wrong. I would have thought though that suggesting a share of the Stadium with West Ham would remove even more of their identity. I can't see them going for that.
  • « The joy that was, and may yet again be, the Abbey StadiumThe Olympic stadium, the small matter of distance, and the Premier League
    Posted by John Beech on January 21, 2011

    By the time you read this, it may well be that the post-2012 fate of the Olympic stadium has been decided, with the decision going to one contentious bid rather than the other (I won’t rehearse the pros and cons of Tottenham and West Ham, taking a detour via Crystal Palace – they have been very well summarised by Paul Kelso in The Daily Telegraph). What does interest me is how either can in fact move there without breaking Premier League rules.

    West Ham are currently the closer of the two to the Olympic Stadium, although not as close as Leyton Orient – see Google Maps and enter ‘football stadium London’; Spurs are pin G and West Ham pin F; Orient are the red dot just above Leyton; a scale of distance is shown at the bottom left).

    If West Ham or Spurs are to make the move, it’s worth looking at the Premier League rules (the Premier League handbook 2010/11 is downloadable here) on club moves. In the section on Ground Criteria on page 152 you will find the following:

    Ground Registration

    5. Each Club shall register its ground with the Secretary and no Club shall remove to another ground without first obtaining the written consent of the Board, such consent not to be unreasonably withheld.

    6. In considering whether to give any such consent, the Board shall have regard to all the circumstances of the case and shall not consent unless reasonably satisfied that such consent:

    6.1 would be consistent with the objects of the Company as set out in the Memorandum;

    6.2 would be appropriate having in mind the relationship (if any) between the locality with which by its name or otherwise the applicant Club is traditionally associated and that in which such Club proposes to establish its ground;

    6.3 would not adversely affect such Club’s Officials, Players, supporters, shareholders,sponsors and others having an interest in its activities;

    6.4 would not have an adverse effect on Visiting Clubs;

    6.5 would not adversely affect Clubs (or Football League clubs) having their registered grounds in the immediate vicinity of the proposed location; and

    6.6 would enhance the reputation of the League and promote the game of association football generally.

    (The emboldening of para 6.5 is my own little mischief)

    The corresponding Rules of the Football League (thus applicable to Orient, and either currently Premier League club should they be relegated before a move takes place) state:

    13.6 Each Club shall register its ground with the Executive and no Club shall remove to another ground without first obtaining the written consent of the Board, such consent not to be unreasonably withheld.

    13.7 In considering whether to give any such consent, the Board shall have regard to all the circumstances of the case and shall not grant consent unless it is reasonably satisfied that such consent:

    13.7.1 would be consistent with the objects of The League as set out in the Memorandum of Association;

    13.7.2 would be appropriate having in mind the relationship (if any) between the locality with which by its name or otherwise the applicant Club is traditionally associated and that in which such Club proposes to establish its ground;

    13.7.3 would not adversely affect such Club’s Officials, players, supporters, shareholders, sponsors and others having an interest in its activities;

    13.7.4 would not have an adverse effect on visiting Clubs;

    13.7.5 would not adversely affect Clubs having their registered grounds in the immediate vicinity of the proposed location; and

    13.7.6 would enhance the reputation of The League and promote the game of association football generally.


    Virtually the same as it happens.

    Now, much would hang on the interpretation of ‘immediate vicinity‘ I grant you, but I would have thought that the average fan on the top of a Clapham, or perhaps even Clapton, omnibus might just see the Olympic stadium as in the immediate vicinity of Brisbane Road. (Yes, I appreciate they themselves moved from Clapton, but that was in 1937 and I haven’t heard any complaints about this recently).

    If either Spurs or West Ham move, it would be a headlong rush towards one another as well as towards Orient. Currently they are less than seven miles apart as the crow flies. Orient is just three miles from Upton Park and just under four from White Hart Lane.

    Will any of this geography be taken into account? My guess is that it won’t. The Premier League will enforce their own rules with their usual opportunistic pragmatism driven by a revenues motive. Mind you, the same Premier League document states on page 9:

    The Chairman’s Charter sets out our commitment to run Premier League football to the highest possible standards and with integrity.

    We will ensure that our Clubs:

    • Behave with the utmost good faith and honesty to each other, do not unjustly criticise or disparage one another and maintain confidences.
    • Will comply with the laws of the game and take all reasonable steps to ensure that the Manager, his staff and Players accept and observe the authority and decisions of Match Officials at all times.
    • Follow Premier League and FA Rules not only to the letter but also to their spirit, and will ensure that our Clubs and Officials are fully aware of such rules and that we have effective procedures to implement the same.
    • Will respect the contractual obligations and responsibilities of each other’s employees and not seek to breach these or to make illegal approaches.
    • Will discharge their financial responsibilities and obligations to each other promptly and fully and not seek to avoid them.
    • Will seek to resolve differences between each other without recourse to law.

    But of course!
  • Mixed feelings on this. I'd have plenty of sympathy for Orient if Spurs move there, as I would for West Ham - it's West Ham and Orient territory. I don't see how they can have any complaints if West Ham get it though - not really any different in principle from West Ham increasing the capacity of Upton Park, which they are obviously well within their rights to do.

    Can't believe Spurs or contemplating this. It may only be 7 miles, but that is massive in London terms - not much different from moving to Milton Keynes, the catchment area is different and it represents a complete abandonment of the community which founded and has supported Spurs for over a century. Financial gain above all else, as usual.
  • Fastforward i'm not sure of your point, how would they be breaking premier league rules? Rule 6.5 say's about it adversly affecting clubs in the immediate vacinity. There is absolutely no proof it would, apart of course from their chairman saying it will.
  • Orient will be fine if it's West Ham move round the corner but I would fear for them if it's Spurs. Who are future generations going to prefer to go and see play? League One/Two players or Champions League football?
  • I'd prefer it stayed outside of football. I'm sure with the infrastucture it could be viable as an athletics arena that could also stage other events such as pop concerts etc... Don't understand why a football club has to have it. Can understand why they would want it but not why it would be given to them. Also, West Ham fans are not going to enjoy the running track.
  • [cite]Posted By: MrLargo[/cite]Mixed feelings on this. I'd have plenty of sympathy for Orient if Spurs move there, as I would for West Ham - it's West Ham and Orient territory. I don't see how they can have any complaints if West Ham get it though - not really any different in principle from West Ham increasing the capacity of Upton Park, which they are obviously well within their rights to do.

    Can't believe Spurs or contemplating this. It may only be 7 miles, but that is massive in London terms - not much different from moving to Milton Keynes, the catchment area is different and it represents a complete abandonment of the community which founded and has supported Spurs for over a century. Financial gain above all else, as usual.
    Spurs aren't considering it seriously. It's a sly ploy to get the local council to stop dragging their heels over redevelopment plans for White Hart Lane. They know full well that the running track won't be removed from that stadium.
  • [cite]Posted By: Leroy Ambrose[/cite]
    Spurs aren't considering it seriously. It's a sly ploy to get the local council to stop dragging their heels over redevelopment plans for White Hart Lane. They know full well that the running track won't be removed from that stadium.

    I have thought that all the way along, not so convinced now though - it's a hefty bluff to take it this far. Presumably submitting a bid must commit them to it in some way if they are awarded it, and if they lose on Friday that puts Haringey Council in a stronger position than before, knowing that Spurs have no longer got a back up plan?
  • [cite]Posted By: MrLargo[/cite]it's a hefty bluff

    If it was just all noise and no substance, the council would know that it was a bluff. If this is a hard nosed negotiation, they must know that Spurs are seriously contemplating this. If Spurs win the bid, which I have to say doesn't seem likely, then I assume they can go back to Haringey with all the cards in their hand.
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  • [cite]Posted By: MrLargo[/cite] Can't believe Spurs or contemplating this. It may only be 7 miles, but that is massive in London terms - not much different from moving to Milton Keynes, the catchment area is different and it represents a complete abandonment of the community which founded and has supported Spurs for over a century.


    Whilst i see your point, i wonder just how many Spurs fans are actually from the local community?
  • [cite]Posted By: Leroy Ambrose[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: MrLargo[/cite]Mixed feelings on this. I'd have plenty of sympathy for Orient if Spurs move there, as I would for West Ham - it's West Ham and Orient territory. I don't see how they can have any complaints if West Ham get it though - not really any different in principle from West Ham increasing the capacity of Upton Park, which they are obviously well within their rights to do.

    Can't believe Spurs or contemplating this. It may only be 7 miles, but that is massive in London terms - not much different from moving to Milton Keynes, the catchment area is different and it represents a complete abandonment of the community which founded and has supported Spurs for over a century. Financial gain above all else, as usual.
    Spurs aren't considering it seriously. It's a sly ploy to get the local council to stop dragging their heels over redevelopment plans for White Hart Lane. They know full well that the running track won't be removed from that stadium.
    It's a legit bid, they wouldn't have spent as much time and money on it, enough to make them favourite to win the bid, if it was a ploy. I realise that money has to be spent in order for a ploy to work but they've hired some of the best PR men in the business who's reputation are on the line.

    The reason why Haringey are playing hard ball is because Levy is a very difficult person to deal with. Opinion.
  • [cite]Posted By: bingaddick[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: MrLargo[/cite]it's a hefty bluff

    If it was just all noise and no substance, the council would know that it was a bluff. If this is a hard nosed negotiation, they must know that Spurs are seriously contemplating this. If Spurs win the bid, which I have to say doesn't seem likely, then I assume they can go back to Haringey with all the cards in their hand.

    which the powers which are deciding this know full well. Why would they give it to Spurs when Spurs themselves haven't even committed to moving there?
  • If a Premiership team does take over the Olympic Stadium it wont be only the O's that would suffer.Us and Millwall would both be negatively impacted having Premiership football 5 minutes up the Blackwall Tunnel.The only consolation would be if the running track is not removed.That would kill some of the footballing atmosphere and put a lot of people off.
  • Leyton Orient were effectively offer the stadium two years ago, when the plan was to go for 25,000, they then acted like massive pricks when quite rightly the OPLC went looking for a rugby club to get in to help balance the books. They're games are already matched with West Ham so it won't be a huge problem.

    If Spurs get the site, it will be a shambles
  • [cite]Posted By: Chris_from_Sidcup[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: MrLargo[/cite]Can't believe Spurs or contemplating this. It may only be 7 miles, but that is massive in London terms - not much different from moving to Milton Keynes, the catchment area is different and it represents a complete abandonment of the community which founded and has supported Spurs for over a century.


    Whilst i see your point, i wonder just how many Spurs fans are actually from the local community?
    Loads of them, they love the High Road so much they sleep on it at night.

    Seriously though, I doubt many of the residents could afford the ticket prices Spurs charge, the majority must live in the Home Counties.
  • edited January 2011
    [cite]Posted By: Chris_from_Sidcup[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: MrLargo[/cite]Can't believe Spurs or contemplating this. It may only be 7 miles, but that is massive in London terms - not much different from moving to Milton Keynes, the catchment area is different and it represents a complete abandonment of the community which founded and has supported Spurs for over a century.


    Whilst i see your point, i wonder just how many Spurs fans are actually from the local community?

    Don't think that's particularly relevant, most of the 16k at The Valley on Saturday don't actually live in the local community - at a guess maybe 5-6k live within 5 miles and the rest mainly from all over Kent. I doubt many of them would be happy if someone decided to move us 7 miles from Charlton just for the sake of a new stadium, I certainly wouldn't.
  • Decision on hold...
    BBC
  • [cite]Posted By: MrLargo[/cite]Don't think that's particularly relevant, most of the 16k at The Valley on Saturday don't actually live in the local community - at a guess maybe 5-6k live within 5 miles and the rest mainly from all over Kent. I doubt many of them would be happy if someone decided to move us 7 miles from Charlton just for the sake of a new stadium, I certainly wouldn't.

    Or indeed to the Tonbridge/Maidstone area.........ducks for cover!
  • 7 miles away - like selhurst park? now where have i heard that idea before?

    seriously though anybody who thinks it won't affect orient if BOTh suds and hamsters are so close is in fantasy. However not sure what if anything can/will be done about it. it can't be left to rot just to appease orient.
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