Well I am an Orient fan and if Tottenham or West Ham move into a 60,000 seater stadium right on top of us it's obviously going to hurt the club. If Tottenham get it, I think it would kill us because then we would have two premiership clubs within five miles of Brisbane Road, one of whom play Champions League football. The problem if West Ham move in is that it will seriously hinder our ability to attract future fans and therefore will result in our attendances dropping even further below what they are now.
By the way there have some stupid comments on here, the reason we didn't move into the Olympic stadium is mainly because of the running track being crap for watching football also there is little point in having 5,000 people in a 25,000 seater stadium. As for the last comment by Uncle I don't like Barry Hearn but the circumstances of Leyton FC folding are totally different they aren't a league club and therefore have essentially no fanbase, also it is hardly Leyton Orient's fault they went bankrupt as we have been operating in close proximity for years and we are hardly stealing their fanbase so I don't see why Barry Hearn should make a fuss about Leyton FC folding due to their own mismanagement.
[cite]Posted By: TheoTheWyvern[/cite]The problem if West Ham move in is that it will seriously hinder our ability to attract future fans and therefore will result in our attendances dropping even further below what they are now.
By the way there have some stupid comments on here, the reason we didn't move into the Olympic stadium is mainly because of the running track being crap for watching football
West Ham have said that if they move in they will sell really cheap tickets or give schools free tickets to fill the stadium, if people can watch football at a higher level at a cheaper price or even for free why are they going to go and watch Orient. Somebody made a comment that we were offered the olympic stadium and didn't move in becuase we were massive pricks, but the reason was that fans can't get a good view of the game with a running track around the pitch like Brighton fans have had for a decade at the Withdean. At this point there had to be an athletics legacy so we didn't pursue the interest.
[cite]Posted By: TheoTheWyvern[/cite]The problem if West Ham move in is that it will seriously hinder our ability to attract future fans and therefore will result in our attendances dropping even further below what they are now.
Do you really think this will be a huge problem? West Ham have always been the big beast in Orients back yard yet the club has survived. Surely Orient need to differentiate their offering to their local market and beyond? Friendly club, family atmosphere, good value prices, turn up and watch most games.
London clubs, especially the smaller ones always have to contend with the bigger beasts around them.
Despite what I have said, the whole thing is a mess and sharply points up the problems of the London football scene.
Yes we have survived but West Ham are now moving closer, so close that we'll probably the closest two clubs in the league, and they are also doubling in size giving them the chance to vastly reduce ticket prices and still make a bigger profit than they do at the moment. Do you understand this?
[cite]Posted By: TheoTheWyvern[/cite]West Ham have said that if they move in they will sell really cheap tickets or give schools free tickets to fill the stadium, if people can watch football at a higher level at a cheaper price or even for free why are they going to go and watch Orient. Somebody made a comment that we were offered the olympic stadium and didn't move in becuase we were massive pricks, but the reason was that fans can't get a good view of the game with a running track around the pitch like Brighton fans have had for a decade at the Withdean. At this point there had to be an athletics legacy so we didn't pursue the interest.
1) If it's a viable financial model for West Ham to sell cheap tickets, why couldn't Orient do it?
b) If watching football over a running track is bad, why would new fans stay with West Ham (who are keeping the track)?
[cite]Posted By: TheoTheWyvern[/cite]West Ham are now moving closer, so close that we'll probably the closest two clubs in the league
[cite]Posted By: TheoTheWyvern[/cite]Yes we have survived but West Ham are now moving closer, so close that we'll probably the closest two clubs in the league, and they are also doubling in size giving them the chance to vastly reduce ticket prices and still make a bigger profit than they do at the moment. Do you understand this?
Liverpool and Everton have to be closer. Nottingham Forest and Notts County have to be pretty close as well. If they were able to develop the Boleyn ground or moved to Docklands which was another plan at one stage, and increased their capacity, they would still cause Orient problems though.
I don't see them reducing ticket prices to be honest, I see them trying to attract premium support from across London due to the excellent transport links to Stratford.
I do empathise though. Do you think Hearn can stop it happening or is he trying to get some compensation lined up?
I think he wants to stop it happening I don't think he'll be able to though, I think if he can't stop it he'll definitely want major compensation that he'll probably pocket.
[cite]Posted By: IA[/cite]
1) If it's a viable financial model for West Ham to sell cheap tickets, why couldn't Orient do it?
[cite]
Not receiving a minimum of £30 million a year tv money and having to pay the bills and wages from their income through the gate is probably the main reason.
[cite]Posted By: IA[/cite]
1) If it's a viable financial model for West Ham to sell cheap tickets, why couldn't Orient do it?
Not receiving a minimum of £30 million a year tv money and having to pay the bills and wages from their income through the gate is probably the main reason.
... but West Ham are competing with other clubs who also receive £30m a year in TV money. If they were planning on being the lowest payers in their division, then it's likely they'd be waving goodbye to the TV money pretty soon.
[cite]Posted By: TheoTheWyvern[/cite]West Ham have said that if they move in they will sell really cheap tickets or give schools free tickets to fill the stadium, if people can watch football at a higher level at a cheaper price or even for free why are they going to go and watch Orient. Somebody made a comment that we were offered the olympic stadium and didn't move in becuase we were massive pricks, but the reason was that fans can't get a good view of the game with a running track around the pitch like Brighton fans have had for a decade at the Withdean. At this point there had to be an athletics legacy so we didn't pursue the interest.
As i said earlier west ham already sell tickets to kids for a quid and have many games where you can get in for between £10 and £15. If you think West ham moving 2 miles is going to affect you that much you are deluded. Also regarding your comment about why should Barry Hearn be concerned with them folding due to mismanagement, let me put it to you. West Ham have been operating in close proximity to Orient for many years and they have not been stealing your fan base (so why should gold/sullivan be concerned with you folding)in actual fact on many occasions they have enhanced it. Be careful not to bite the hand that feeds you.
What you're forgetting Theo is that Orient won't be playing home games when the Olympic Stadium team is playing there. People in the area may support them instead of Orient but might go to the Os when that side are playing away. If West Ham get it some hammers may start going to Orient instead. Surely like around here the majority of people in the Leyton area support a big London team instead of Orient. I think we have more to worry about as we'll end up playing the same time as the Olympic team.
To be fair to Orient, they never did receive the compensatory friendly matches they were promised when Woolwich Arsenal moved north so they need to make the most of this one ;-)
The FSF poll in December found that only 1 in 5 West Ham supporters backed the move to the OS, and the 'We are N17' petition has just gone over the 7000 mark, it was 5,000 2 days ago, so it's picked up a lot in the last couple of days. I don't know how accurate the poll results are, or who is signing the petition, but there's clearly renewed interest. Plus, if the ordinary 'voter' plus London Council tax payers realise what's going on and decide that they don't want their taxes going to pornographers, it could get quite murky.
The Metro today stated that the third option of a 25,000 legacy athletics stadium at Stratford is still on the table.
Personally I would like that and the geographical balance of London football is maintained with the iconic venues of Upton Park and White Hart Lane remaining .
In terms of previous London Olympic Stadiums I find it interesting that QPR never settled at our last venue in White City and noone set up a big campaign to save it when the BBC demolished it in the early 80's.
The Olympic stadium should be a legacy for the Olympics it should stay as a Athletics complex and be used for nothing else.
It should be used as a centre of excellence for the up and coming young athletes of our nation, inbetween it should be used for domestic athletics competions and school comps.
West Ham should stay at Upton Park they are a big London club unarguably that will always Yo yo between the Prem and the Chumpionship but they are not too big for their current location they advertise virtually every game on the radio that there are tickets available.
Tottingham are a big London Club like it or not they are, they have outgrown their stadium and have in excess of 30k on a waiting list for season tickets,
However they are a North London Club and that is where they should stay,
they are whinging about moving so that their fan base can gain easier access,
if thats the case move to Herfordshire and relocate,
They have planning permission at WHL to improve the stadium and make it bigger, the transport links are the issue.
Absolute ball ox, The train station is a 5 minute walk and there are 2 others walking distance within 10 mins,
There is a long walk for the tube agreed but if you get off at seven sisters and go upstairs you can get a train to the ground.
The issue is parking not trains and buses, yet again i know of loads of spaces but it takes ages to get out on to the A406 and the A10, So What if it annoys you that much get a train.
Orient are one of the oldest clubs in football but they are at a good ground for a team their size, Yet the snooker man has been talking for years of moving up A12 before all this came out.
The area needs to stay athletics based and have something that can be utilised during non events for the smaller sized entertainments,i.e Bands, outdoor proms that sort of thing but ultimately it should be somewhere that over the next 20 years aids our young prospects to excel at their chosen sport, there is enough football stadiums in London and we certainly dont need another.
So to Wet Spam (sorry Unc) Tottingham (sorry John Boy) and to the O's
Do one and sort your own clubs out without jepordising the most underfunded under tapped into sports in this country, and by the way pay for it yourselves dont expect us to pay for it for you.
Me too - I think for the credibility of the bid - this approach needs to be taken - this was always my understanding what was going to happen. The stadium should be athletics first and foremost, it will have lots of revenue generation opportunities, but also should hold non profit community and development events with local schools. The london tax payers should see the benefit of the facilities, not football clubs.oney.It is also correct that West Ham have difficulty filling Upton Park, so the move can only be about cashing in on tax payers money and the Spurs bid has been a joke from the start which undermines the promises given to get the games.
Gut feeling is that the process has swung towards Spurs, if only because they have to be seen to have taken everything into consideration to avoid the threat of a judicial review if Spurs don't win.
If I was a betting man, given the financial state of the nation and the need for the Govt to recoup what it can following the public investment that has gone into the Olympics, my money would be on a West Ham/Athletics/Rugby/Cricket/others multi purpose stadium winning the bid.
If somebody can come up with a retro fit moveable seats near/further away solution so that a 60,000 football stadium with the seats close to the pitch can be temporarily changed to an athletic stadium with a running track, like as I understand it the Stad De France, that would nail the whole thing.
[cite]Posted By: bingaddick[/cite]
If somebody can come up with a retro fit moveable seats near/further away solution so that a 60,000 football stadium with the seats close to the pitch can be temporarily changed to an athletic stadium with a running track, like as I understand it the Stad De France, that would nail the whole thing.
Very easy to do, it's just surprisingly and almost prohibitively expensive and time consuming to implement each time they want to use it.
Wembley has part of the lower tier at one end like this, so they can put stages in etc. and having seen it close up and the mechanisms that enable it, it's a bodge job at best. Imagine the rows of seating that you get in some school halls and gyms that fold away into a vertical stack, it's basically that.
In an ideal world that would be the answer, but it makes no sense at all.
Stratford is EAST London. Tottenham is NORTH London.
Although Stratford is only 30 mins away from me on public transport compared to the 90 mins that WHL is...and the fact that I work only one tube stop away from Stratford, Spurs MUST stay in Tottenham. Yes, its a shithole, we all know that, but its our shithole. Stratford is not.
I've signed the We are N17 petition. It took a lot of soul searching but I done so eventually after I slept on it for a good few weeks.
NLA, absolutely agree with you that the Olympic Stadium should stay as a legacy for the Olympics, reduce it to 25,000 capacity as per the original plan and be done with it. However, I dont agree with you over the reasons why Levy wants to move the club. Its money pure and simple. Haringey Council have offered no help to Spurs for years now. MP Lammy had done bugger all too and now they are both panic now Levy has said enough is enough. Had they been a little more supportive in the first place (and not seen Spurs at their meal ticket to improve the whole community) then we might not even be in this predicament now.
ENIC will sell up soon. Tottenham with preffered bidder status will be worth a shed load more money than Tottenham remaining at WHL, new stadium or not.
When West Ham get it, good luck to them. I say when as I know that Newham Council have provisonally approved planning permission in the last month for a supermarket on the plot of land which is Upton Park. Read into that what you will.
I find it strange that they delayed the decision. Makes me think it was a damn site closer than everyone thought it was...
Johnboy there are not many times we will agree and although i really dont want west ham to get it i feel that if it goes to a football club then it has to be west ham. Its just wrong that your lot play in stratford, its a bit like manu building a stadium in Stanley Park. Somethings are not meant to be. I hope they can find a way of doing it without using it for football West Ham can build on the chicken run and spurs can move in north london. I have a bad feeling that wont happen because if it was going to then i dont think the 2 daves would have bought us. They didn't do it because they are west ham fans they did it to develop upton park and then pay what will be no more than minimal rent (for the loan) for the olympic stadium until they can sell west ham at a huge profit and they will
Comments
By the way there have some stupid comments on here, the reason we didn't move into the Olympic stadium is mainly because of the running track being crap for watching football also there is little point in having 5,000 people in a 25,000 seater stadium. As for the last comment by Uncle I don't like Barry Hearn but the circumstances of Leyton FC folding are totally different they aren't a league club and therefore have essentially no fanbase, also it is hardly Leyton Orient's fault they went bankrupt as we have been operating in close proximity for years and we are hardly stealing their fanbase so I don't see why Barry Hearn should make a fuss about Leyton FC folding due to their own mismanagement.
??
Do you really think this will be a huge problem? West Ham have always been the big beast in Orients back yard yet the club has survived. Surely Orient need to differentiate their offering to their local market and beyond? Friendly club, family atmosphere, good value prices, turn up and watch most games.
London clubs, especially the smaller ones always have to contend with the bigger beasts around them.
Despite what I have said, the whole thing is a mess and sharply points up the problems of the London football scene.
1) If it's a viable financial model for West Ham to sell cheap tickets, why couldn't Orient do it?
b) If watching football over a running track is bad, why would new fans stay with West Ham (who are keeping the track)?
Try Nottingham, mate
But both those clubs grounds are quite close in terms of size too.
Liverpool and Everton have to be closer. Nottingham Forest and Notts County have to be pretty close as well. If they were able to develop the Boleyn ground or moved to Docklands which was another plan at one stage, and increased their capacity, they would still cause Orient problems though.
I don't see them reducing ticket prices to be honest, I see them trying to attract premium support from across London due to the excellent transport links to Stratford.
I do empathise though. Do you think Hearn can stop it happening or is he trying to get some compensation lined up?
... but West Ham are competing with other clubs who also receive £30m a year in TV money. If they were planning on being the lowest payers in their division, then it's likely they'd be waving goodbye to the TV money pretty soon.
As i said earlier west ham already sell tickets to kids for a quid and have many games where you can get in for between £10 and £15. If you think West ham moving 2 miles is going to affect you that much you are deluded. Also regarding your comment about why should Barry Hearn be concerned with them folding due to mismanagement, let me put it to you. West Ham have been operating in close proximity to Orient for many years and they have not been stealing your fan base (so why should gold/sullivan be concerned with you folding)in actual fact on many occasions they have enhanced it. Be careful not to bite the hand that feeds you.
Well there's a surprise, this is where he asks for a bit of money. So predictable of the twat.
Personally I would like that and the geographical balance of London football is maintained with the iconic venues of Upton Park and White Hart Lane remaining .
In terms of previous London Olympic Stadiums I find it interesting that QPR never settled at our last venue in White City and noone set up a big campaign to save it when the BBC demolished it in the early 80's.
The Olympic stadium should be a legacy for the Olympics it should stay as a Athletics complex and be used for nothing else.
It should be used as a centre of excellence for the up and coming young athletes of our nation, inbetween it should be used for domestic athletics competions and school comps.
West Ham should stay at Upton Park they are a big London club unarguably that will always Yo yo between the Prem and the Chumpionship but they are not too big for their current location they advertise virtually every game on the radio that there are tickets available.
Tottingham are a big London Club like it or not they are, they have outgrown their stadium and have in excess of 30k on a waiting list for season tickets,
However they are a North London Club and that is where they should stay,
they are whinging about moving so that their fan base can gain easier access,
if thats the case move to Herfordshire and relocate,
They have planning permission at WHL to improve the stadium and make it bigger, the transport links are the issue.
Absolute ball ox, The train station is a 5 minute walk and there are 2 others walking distance within 10 mins,
There is a long walk for the tube agreed but if you get off at seven sisters and go upstairs you can get a train to the ground.
The issue is parking not trains and buses, yet again i know of loads of spaces but it takes ages to get out on to the A406 and the A10, So What if it annoys you that much get a train.
Orient are one of the oldest clubs in football but they are at a good ground for a team their size, Yet the snooker man has been talking for years of moving up A12 before all this came out.
The area needs to stay athletics based and have something that can be utilised during non events for the smaller sized entertainments,i.e Bands, outdoor proms that sort of thing but ultimately it should be somewhere that over the next 20 years aids our young prospects to excel at their chosen sport, there is enough football stadiums in London and we certainly dont need another.
So to Wet Spam (sorry Unc) Tottingham (sorry John Boy) and to the O's
Do one and sort your own clubs out without jepordising the most underfunded under tapped into sports in this country, and by the way pay for it yourselves dont expect us to pay for it for you.
Gut feeling is that the process has swung towards Spurs, if only because they have to be seen to have taken everything into consideration to avoid the threat of a judicial review if Spurs don't win.
If I was a betting man, given the financial state of the nation and the need for the Govt to recoup what it can following the public investment that has gone into the Olympics, my money would be on a West Ham/Athletics/Rugby/Cricket/others multi purpose stadium winning the bid.
If somebody can come up with a retro fit moveable seats near/further away solution so that a 60,000 football stadium with the seats close to the pitch can be temporarily changed to an athletic stadium with a running track, like as I understand it the Stad De France, that would nail the whole thing.
Very easy to do, it's just surprisingly and almost prohibitively expensive and time consuming to implement each time they want to use it.
Wembley has part of the lower tier at one end like this, so they can put stages in etc. and having seen it close up and the mechanisms that enable it, it's a bodge job at best. Imagine the rows of seating that you get in some school halls and gyms that fold away into a vertical stack, it's basically that.
In an ideal world that would be the answer, but it makes no sense at all.
Stratford is EAST London. Tottenham is NORTH London.
Although Stratford is only 30 mins away from me on public transport compared to the 90 mins that WHL is...and the fact that I work only one tube stop away from Stratford, Spurs MUST stay in Tottenham. Yes, its a shithole, we all know that, but its our shithole. Stratford is not.
I've signed the We are N17 petition. It took a lot of soul searching but I done so eventually after I slept on it for a good few weeks.
NLA, absolutely agree with you that the Olympic Stadium should stay as a legacy for the Olympics, reduce it to 25,000 capacity as per the original plan and be done with it. However, I dont agree with you over the reasons why Levy wants to move the club. Its money pure and simple. Haringey Council have offered no help to Spurs for years now. MP Lammy had done bugger all too and now they are both panic now Levy has said enough is enough. Had they been a little more supportive in the first place (and not seen Spurs at their meal ticket to improve the whole community) then we might not even be in this predicament now.
ENIC will sell up soon. Tottenham with preffered bidder status will be worth a shed load more money than Tottenham remaining at WHL, new stadium or not.
When West Ham get it, good luck to them. I say when as I know that Newham Council have provisonally approved planning permission in the last month for a supermarket on the plot of land which is Upton Park. Read into that what you will.
I find it strange that they delayed the decision. Makes me think it was a damn site closer than everyone thought it was...