I was going to type something about steel not needing to approach melting point to deform (blacksmith making horse shoes, for instance) but those who want to believe a conspiracy will choose to ignore facts and believe vile nonsense like Loose Change etc.
[cite]Posted By: charltonkeston[/cite]I was going to type something about steel not needing to approach melting point to deform (blacksmith making horse shoes, for instance) but those who want to believe a conspiracy will choose to ignore facts and believe vile nonsense like Loose Change etc.
It would be nice to hear the facts than to be patronised.
I dont really know what to beleive. It wouldnt suprise me if it was true, but i still find it extremely hard to accept that so many lives were taken as some sort of war plot
[cite]Posted By: charltonkeston[/cite]I was going to type something about steel not needing to approach melting point to deform (blacksmith making horse shoes, for instance) but those who want to believe a conspiracy will choose to ignore facts and believe vile nonsense like Loose Change etc.
It would be nice to hear the facts than to be patronised.
Who's being patronising?
You mentioned melting point of steel, I gave an example of metal forming at around 750C.
Sorry if I hurt your feelings.
Love it. There are an awful lot of structural engineers, aviation engineers, firemen and pilots on here. Either that or an awful lot of people who know absolutely f*** all about these subjects yet think they do because they've read a couple of demented ravings on the internet and seen some videos put together by fat geezers sat in their pants gibbering behind a computer screen. It's the exact same mentality that leads people to believe Jenny McCarthy has a legitimate point of view regarding vaccines and autism. It makes me sad.
[cite]Posted By: Leroy Ambrose[/cite] It's the exact same mentality that leads people to believe Jenny McCarthy has a legitimate point of view regarding vaccines.
To be fair she has had quite a few injections in her time.
[cite]Posted By: MrOneLung[/cite]If the plane didnt hit the pentagon, then where did it go ?
These was a conspiracy to hijack the plane on the ground at the airport. All 200-odd passengers were spirited away/killed, and the plane was then flown over the Atlantic by secret service operatives and dumped into the ocean. All the Air Traffic Control people were told to keep quiet about it - as were the ground staff, pilots, service crew, thousands of eyewitnesses, fire crews, police and everyone else who KNOWS FULL F****ING WELL THAT THE F***ING PLANE HIT THE F***ING PENTAGON.
Why do you have to prove something is total kak ? that is the reason why knob heads start all this total bollox becuase then people have to waste time "proving" their utter cobblers is just utter cobblers.
It happened, its very very sad. Some people cannot except it, but there you go!
As the oracle that is Keith Richards observed when asked about the Diana car crash theories, 'she's just another chick, that died in a car crash, thats all'!
[cite]Posted By: Goonerhater[/cite]Why do you have to prove something is total kak ? that is the reason why knob heads start all this total bollox becuase then people have to waste time "proving" their utter cobblers is just utter cobblers.
It seems those who are adamant that the theories are rubbish are more vocal than those who think something suspicious went on, why is that? Are you so sure that it all happened the way a government said it did? or shall we put it another way, do you believe everything a government tells you or is it just in this case?
Not really sure why the US government would want to do this to themselves as an excuse to go to war for the following reasons: 1) There were way too many incidents happening on this day which has caused the government a massive embarassment and 2) why would the US want to spend $5 billion per year on subsiding wars on two fronts which they knew they were in for the long term. I don't buy that it was for Iraq's oil, as this still belonged to Iraq even though the US was in occupation. Load of rubbish imo.
I have a friend (not a "friend") who was in New York and he saw the second plane.
It might have been trickery, the Government or a controlled explosion in the Towers. Whatever it was, he felt it was real and has never forgotten his feelings (or the dust) that day.
The next day he tried to give blood as there was a shortage and was told he couldn't as Brits were not allowed because of Mad Cows. Strange world eh?
QUOTE: It seems those who are adamant that the theories are rubbish are more vocal than those who think something suspicious went on, why is that? Are you so sure that it all happened the way a government said it did? or shall we put it another way, do you believe everything a government tells you or is it just in this case?
ALWAYS the way with this subject. These people get *really* angry at anyone discussing ideas and opinions (I know this always happens on messageboards/forums anyway, but much moreso with this subject). For whatever reason it seems to touch a real nerve with them if people dare to challenge the status quo.
I think you always have to be open minded and analyse the evidence put it front of you. I.e. do you think this evidence is strong or weak etc and then you can have a formal opinion.
I have watched many documentories and read numerous articles on this subject, and for me, personally, I dont think the USA government did this to themselves.
[cite]Posted By: Friend Or Defoe[/cite]Maybe up to now Leroy a truer word hasn't been spoken, but I'm about to top it.
[cite]Leroy Ambrose[/cite]I can't prove shit.
I don't have to prove shit. Do I think the US used the 9/11 atrocities as carte blanche to bomb Iraq back to the stone age and give all their contractors the nice little earner of rebuilding is? Probably. Do I think that US foreign, economic and energy policy pretty much dictates that they had to muller Iraq for it's oil sooner or later? Probably. Do I think the US are clever enough to be able to concoct and keep secret a conspiracy that claimed the lives of thousands of its own citizens when they can't keep one single bloke from pulling files off a computer and publishing their state secrets across the world for all and sundry to see? Not really!
Since all the evidence and all the facts point to it being the work of a bunch of loons, rather than a CIA-backed conspiracy - the burden of proof lies with the cretins who believe otherwise. We (and by 'we' I mean sane people) don't have to prove anything. Anybody who thinks the US did this to it's own people to justify an invasion of Afghanistan is a credulous imbecile who needs to grow up.
Do I think the US used the 9/11 atrocities as carte blanche to bomb Iraq back to the stone age and give all their contractors the nice little earner of rebuilding is? Probably
Only probably? Definitely in my opinion.
It was too good an opportunity to pass up. Immediately after Sept 11 there were stories widely reported that Saddam's head of secret police had met with Mohammed Atta in Prague, only no such meeting ever took place and there was plenty of other rhetotic from the mouths of Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Condoleeza Rice et al that Saddam was behind the hijackings and that Saddam was arming/financing/sheltering and training al Qaeda. Again no links have been proven, andneither has any evidence turned up post-invasion to support these theories. But there are numerous links between the Bush white House and contractors such as Halliburton, KKR (a division of Halliburton) and others who benefitted from contracts in Iraq and its re-construction, they all seem to have heavily contributed to the Bush election funds. For example the contract to run port at Basra went to a US company over the heads of P&O who had a lot of experience in running ports in the Middle East, had Arabic speakers on board and plenty of contacts, curiously a port that was won and maintained by British soldiers, spilling British blood and paid for by the British tax-payer, went to a US company who had never operated a port in the region before. I'm sure those links were pure coincidence.
Has anyone yet come out with a reason why America killed several thousand of its own citizens so that it could go off to war in one of the most difficult countries in the world to invade (for which they required several deals with dodgy dictators), and lose many many more citizens (soldiers) in the process?
[cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite]Do I think the US used the 9/11 atrocities as carte blanche to bomb Iraq back to the stone age and give all their contractors the nice little earner of rebuilding is? Probably
Only probably? Definitely in my opinion.
It was too good an opportunity to pass up. Immediately after Sept 11 there were stories widely reported that Saddam's head of secret police had met with Mohammed Atta in Prague, only no such meeting ever took place and there was plenty of other rhetotic from the mouths of Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Condoleeza Rice et al that Saddam was behind the hijackings and that Saddam was arming/financing/sheltering and training al Qaeda. Again no links have been proven, andneither has any evidence turned up post-invasion to support these theories. But there are numerous links between the Bush white House and contractors such as Halliburton, KKR (a division of Halliburton) and others who benefitted from contracts in Iraq and its re-construction, they all seem to have heavily contributed to the Bush election funds. For example the contract to run port at Basra went to a US company over the heads of P&O who had a lot of experience in running ports in the Middle East, had Arabic speakers on board and plenty of contacts, curiously a port that was won and maintained by British soldiers, spilling British blood and paid for by the British tax-payer, went to a US company who had never operated a port in the region before. I'm sure those links were pure coincidence.
Because the Taliban regime was sheltering al Qaeda and running training camps and when given the chance refused to hand over bin Laden. However with the job in Afghanistan all but done, and Osama bin Laden holed up in Tora Bora and apparently on a dialysis machine the US took their eye off the ball and ratchetted up the basis for an invasion of Iraq.
Here are some quotes from Bush which pretty well sum it up:
"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him." - G.W. Bush, 13/09/01
"I want justice...There's an old poster out West, as I recall, that said, 'Wanted: Dead or Alive,'" - G.W. Bush, 17/09/01
So - in the aftermath of September 11 he was going after him...
Although you should remember that he allowed bin Laden family members to leave the US immediately after - and without being questioned and furthermore despite a worldwide ban on flights.
However a few months later, he said:
"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." - G.W. Bush, 13/03/02
"I am truly not that concerned about him." - G.W. Bush, repsonding to a question about bin Laden's whereabouts, 13/03/02
Why did he allow bin Laden to escape?
There are numerous other quotes out there that demonstrate that the Bush White House was busy trying to link Saddam to al Qaeda and September 11.
That is the same Saddam that was a CIA paid informant and agent for a couple of decades and who the US happily funded and armed during the Iran-Iraq war.
Comments
I dont really know what to beleive. It wouldnt suprise me if it was true, but i still find it extremely hard to accept that so many lives were taken as some sort of war plot
Who's being patronising?
You mentioned melting point of steel, I gave an example of metal forming at around 750C.
Sorry if I hurt your feelings.
Apology accepted!
To be fair she has had quite a few injections in her time.
If things were that simple you would be able to disprove it rather than act like a lunatic! For the rest of the week I recommend you drink Decafe.
As the oracle that is Keith Richards observed when asked about the Diana car crash theories, 'she's just another chick, that died in a car crash, thats all'!
It might have been trickery, the Government or a controlled explosion in the Towers. Whatever it was, he felt it was real and has never forgotten his feelings (or the dust) that day.
The next day he tried to give blood as there was a shortage and was told he couldn't as Brits were not allowed because of Mad Cows. Strange world eh?
ALWAYS the way with this subject. These people get *really* angry at anyone discussing ideas and opinions (I know this always happens on messageboards/forums anyway, but much moreso with this subject). For whatever reason it seems to touch a real nerve with them if people dare to challenge the status quo.
I have watched many documentories and read numerous articles on this subject, and for me, personally, I dont think the USA government did this to themselves.
Since all the evidence and all the facts point to it being the work of a bunch of loons, rather than a CIA-backed conspiracy - the burden of proof lies with the cretins who believe otherwise. We (and by 'we' I mean sane people) don't have to prove anything. Anybody who thinks the US did this to it's own people to justify an invasion of Afghanistan is a credulous imbecile who needs to grow up.
Only probably? Definitely in my opinion.
It was too good an opportunity to pass up. Immediately after Sept 11 there were stories widely reported that Saddam's head of secret police had met with Mohammed Atta in Prague, only no such meeting ever took place and there was plenty of other rhetotic from the mouths of Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Condoleeza Rice et al that Saddam was behind the hijackings and that Saddam was arming/financing/sheltering and training al Qaeda. Again no links have been proven, andneither has any evidence turned up post-invasion to support these theories. But there are numerous links between the Bush white House and contractors such as Halliburton, KKR (a division of Halliburton) and others who benefitted from contracts in Iraq and its re-construction, they all seem to have heavily contributed to the Bush election funds. For example the contract to run port at Basra went to a US company over the heads of P&O who had a lot of experience in running ports in the Middle East, had Arabic speakers on board and plenty of contacts, curiously a port that was won and maintained by British soldiers, spilling British blood and paid for by the British tax-payer, went to a US company who had never operated a port in the region before. I'm sure those links were pure coincidence.
Why did they invade Afghanistan first?
Thanks...very interesting stuff.
Because the Taliban regime was sheltering al Qaeda and running training camps and when given the chance refused to hand over bin Laden. However with the job in Afghanistan all but done, and Osama bin Laden holed up in Tora Bora and apparently on a dialysis machine the US took their eye off the ball and ratchetted up the basis for an invasion of Iraq.
Here are some quotes from Bush which pretty well sum it up:
"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him."
- G.W. Bush, 13/09/01
"I want justice...There's an old poster out West, as I recall, that said, 'Wanted: Dead or Alive,'"
- G.W. Bush, 17/09/01
So - in the aftermath of September 11 he was going after him...
Although you should remember that he allowed bin Laden family members to leave the US immediately after - and without being questioned and furthermore despite a worldwide ban on flights.
However a few months later, he said:
"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
- G.W. Bush, 13/03/02
"I am truly not that concerned about him."
- G.W. Bush, repsonding to a question about bin Laden's whereabouts,
13/03/02
Why did he allow bin Laden to escape?
There are numerous other quotes out there that demonstrate that the Bush White House was busy trying to link Saddam to al Qaeda and September 11.
That is the same Saddam that was a CIA paid informant and agent for a couple of decades and who the US happily funded and armed during the Iran-Iraq war.