Senators are the equivalent of members of parliament, except in the US they seperate out the legislature and the Government so you can't be a member of both (with the exception of the Vice-President who has some function in the Senate).
[cite]Posted By: Jints[/cite]It never ceases to amaze me that otherwise intelligent people can believe such ridculous things. Scientology, homeopathy, 9/11 conspiracy theories.
You can add god to that list...
Being a follower of scientology is no more crazy than being a catholic/christian who believes in god (the same said for all other religions too)
I don't believe the US were behind the 9/11 attacks on the trade centres but I'm sure they knew all about them, much the same way they knew about the pending attack on Pearl Harbour hence the disappearance of the aircraft carriers shortly before the attack...
The attack on the pentagon is not so much of a mystery, many parts of the TC planes have been found but not one iota of the pentagon plane. An arms expert has stated that supposed parts of the plane are from a missile, the parts have never been allowed to be examined by an independent inspector. There are many videos showing the damage caused to that building, no way was it caused by a plane.
A week or so after the 9/11 attacks a passenger plane similar to the one that 'crashed' into the pentagon crashed in New York, practically the whole plane was reconstructed by crash investigators, planes just don't disappear, just like buildings on fire don't collapse...
Why would the US allow several thousand of it's citizens to die in such a manner, simple, they don't matter. In the greater scheme of things they are a small price to pay for what they have achieved militarily. Complete control of an Arab state, its forces, its bases, its airspace, Iraq is just one massive embarkation point for wherever they see fit to invade next, probably Iran...
Why invade Afghanistan? A few weeks after invading the Afghan government signed an agreement allowing a fuel line to be built righ across Afghanistan allowing gas to be pumped to US ships waiting in a southern port. The US army is there to guard it...
Why would the US commit the demonstrative acts of aggression? OIL...!
It's running out, the US are getting their foot in the door to protect their own interests, wherever there's oil the US will be involved, their appetite for the stuff is insatiable...
[cite]Posted By: Jints[/cite]It never ceases to amaze me that otherwise intelligent people can believe such ridculous things. Scientology, homeopathy, 9/11 conspiracy theories.
You can add god to that list...
Being a follower of scientology is no more crazy than being a catholic/christian who believes in god (the same said for all other religions too)
Absolute, utter bollocks. You can PROVE Scientology is bullshit. You can't PROVE religions that have been around for thousands of years are. I am not remotely religious, and don't believe that any of the major religions have any basis in fact. However, I can no more 'prove' that Jesus didn't rise from the dead than you can 'prove' that the moon is made of cheese. Scientology is utter bollocks - and, because it's only forty years old and all the evidence is set out before you in an irrefutable manner, you can categorically state as fact that it's utter bollocks. Empirical religious intolerance is just as dangerous as individual religious fanaticism.
[cite]Posted By: Leroy Ambrose[/cite]This thread is incredible. I am a pretty pessimistic bloke in general, but even I didn't believe that there were this many imbeciles in the world.
You've been repeating this throughout the thread without being able to give any explanation other than claim that the whole notion that something fishy may have occurred is extremely unlikely. Here's a thought, if there is more than meets the eye to this, this is the exact reaction the government would be after. To pull something as big as this off will require a lot of effort and miraculous detail, something small will have more people (non-imbecilic) wondering. Don't be daft/naive enough to think that you're more intelligent than government decision makers. It's clear from this thread that they have benefited greatly from 9/11, whether they played a part of it or not.
[cite]Posted By: Jints[/cite]It never ceases to amaze me that otherwise intelligent people can believe such ridculous things. Scientology, homeopathy, 9/11 conspiracy theories.
You can add god to that list...
Being a follower of scientology is no more crazy than being a catholic/christian who believes in god (the same said for all other religions too)
Absolute, utter bollocks. You can PROVE Scientology is bullshit. You can't PROVE religions that have been around for thousands of years are. I am not remotely religious, and don't believe that any of the major religions have any basis in fact. However, I can no more 'prove' that Jesusdidn'trise from the dead than you can 'prove' that the moon is made of cheese. Scientology is utter bollocks - and, because it's only forty years old and all the evidence is set out before you in an irrefutable manner, you can categorically state as fact that it's utter bollocks. Empirical religious intolerance is just as dangerous as individual religious fanaticism.
I disagree. The theory of evolution put forward by Darwin and Wallace, and the subsequent molecular biology shows that we have evolved over millions of years. That cannot be disputed.
If we take christianity as an example:
It states that the humans originated from adam and eve...if that was the case, I dont think we would have such a diverse population around the world
The mere fact that the bible suggests humans were put on this plaent by god is incomplete contradiction to the theory of evolution. DNA and other conserved macromolecules (proteins etc) are found right down the evolutionary chain... for example we have proteins in us that worms and flies have (with no real difference in animo acid structure, or even that DNA that encodes it).
As much as I would like to believe someone could turn water into wine, I doubt very much that is true.
I also very much doubt that a women could give birth to a child without the need for sexual intercourse
I also very much doubt that man could come back to life ...
Religious people often say "well, were did the universe come from, if God didnt make it"
Well, where did God come from?
Radiation emmited from the "Big Bang" has been recorded and its now an accepted theory that the universe was derived from this point (Rather than a man in the sky making it)
Just because something is thousands of years old, does not mean it cant be utter bollacks....
[cite]Posted By: Leroy Ambrose[/cite]This thread is incredible. I am a pretty pessimistic bloke in general, but even I didn't believe that there were this many imbeciles in the world.
In the same vein though you cannot prove that what you believe to be true is true. And what is the 'truth' anyway? The truth usually always gets discarded (in time / through history) and replaced by FACT.
It seems to me that your views are probably the type that shows that it is you that has their 'eyes closed' on this matter as you are not open to investigate different possibilities, preferring to follow the official line.
Be careful about ridiculing others, the joke could be on you one day, though you may not find it that funny.
Has anybody had a look at that Septemberclues website i posted?
just wondered what people thought about it.
I watched The Event last night, 1st episode of series 2 and i know its a tv show but i would be very suprised if the U.S government werent the same as how they are portrayed in the show
[cite]Posted By: Leroy Ambrose[/cite]This thread is incredible. I am a pretty pessimistic bloke in general, but even I didn't believe that there were this many imbeciles in the world.
In the same vein though you cannot prove that what you believe to be true is true. And what is the 'truth' anyway? The truth usually always gets discarded (in time / through history) and replaced by FACT.
It seems to me that your views are probably the type that shows that it is you that has their 'eyes closed' on this matter as you are not open to investigate different possibilities, preferring to follow the official line.
Be careful about ridiculing others, the joke could be on you one day, though you may not find it that funny.
Well I think Leroy is great, even if he hates Apple!!!
[cite]Posted By: Leroy Ambrose[/cite]This thread is incredible. I am a pretty pessimistic bloke in general, but even I didn't believe that there were this many imbeciles in the world.
Oh come on Leroy don't be like that, this thread is your baby (your comment on the Japanese Earthquake thread sparked it) and has rolled on and on in your honour ;-)
[cite]Posted By: Robert[/cite]If we take christianity as an example:
It states that the humans originated from adam and eve...if that was the case, I dont think we would have such a diverse population around the world
The mere fact that the bible suggests humans were put on this plaent by god is incomplete contradiction to the theory of evolution. DNA and other conserved macromolecules (proteins etc) are found right down the evolutionary chain... for example we have proteins in us that worms and flies have (with no real difference in animo acid structure, or even that DNA that encodes it).
Or alternatively you could appreciate that the Old Testament is basically a bunch of oral history, allegory, poetry and law that got written down eventually, and isn't claimed to be literal truth by many Christians. Even within science we use analogies, thought experiments and simplified models to help explain complex theories, so why shouldn't early Jewish society have done the same? Evolution as a process is a scientifically demonstrable fact, but the theory of evolution as the cause of the origin of species isn't (yet). It's the best answer we've got but you can't claim it as objective truth.
I also very much doubt that a women could give birth to a child without the need for sexual intercourse
A woman? Yep, happens reasonably often. That particular woman? We have no way of knowing.
I also very much doubt that man could come back to life ...
Again, happens every day.
Radiation emmited from the "Big Bang" has been recorded and its now an accepted theory that the universe was derived from this point (Rather than a man in the sky making it)
But again, this is only the best answer we have. This universe may have been derived from this point, but we don't know that there weren't other universes before that, or if there even was any "before" before that.
Just because something is thousands of years old, does not mean it cant be utter bollacks....
But when something is thousands of years old it can be more difficult to disprove that certain events associated with it did or didn't happen. Which I think was Leroy's point.
Great thread. Admin, I'd be interested in a poll of people's opinions on here if we could simplify it down to four options.
1) The US government were responsible for the 9/11 attacks
2) The US government had prior intelligence of an Al Qaida attack but allowed it to happen to justify an attack on Iraq/Afghanistan for the pursuit of oil
3) Complete load of bollocks and US retaliation (whether justifiable or not) was inevitable after a sickening act of terrorism
[cite]Posted By: Goonerhater[/cite] There is a first time for everything even at my old age---i agree with Leroy and Henry !!!! its bollox.
As a regular Guardian reader I have to agree with Goonerhater on this one. (Never thought I would see the day when I would write that sentence!) This conspiracy theory has as much credence as the various theories that support the Holocaust deniers.
[cite]Posted By: Leroy Ambrose[/cite]This thread is incredible. I am a pretty pessimistic bloke in general, but even I didn't believe that there were this many imbeciles in the world.
You've been repeating this throughout the thread without being able to give any explanation other than claim that the whole notion that something fishy may have occurred is extremely unlikely. Here's a thought, if there is more than meets the eye to this, this is the exact reaction the government would be after. To pull something as big as this off will require a lot of effort and miraculous detail, something small will have more people (non-imbecilic) wondering. Don't be daft/naive enough to think that you're more intelligent than government decision makers. It's clear from this thread that they have benefited greatly from 9/11, whether they played a part of it or not.
Let's just hope that one of the people involved in creating the great cover up doesn't have too many Bud Lights one night and spills the beans.....or are those people no longer with us..#Theme tune from the Twightlight Zone now playing#
[cite]Posted By: les_says[/cite]Great thread. Admin, I'd be interested in a poll of people's opinions on here if we could simplify it down to four options.
1) The US government were responsible for the 9/11 attacks
2) The US government had prior intelligence of an Al Qaida attack but allowed it to happen to justify an attack on Iraq/Afghanistan for the pursuit of oil
3) Complete load of bollocks and US retaliation (whether justifiable or not) was inevitable after a sickening act of terrorism
I believe in many of the conspiracy theories re 9/11 and other such events and that strings are being pulled above and beyond the governments we see . Couldnt give a flying feck whether that makes me a loon, gullible or whatever. Too many unanswered questions about too many things and would feel just as gullible taking at face value what the popular press and governments of the day told me. Isntinctively I think there is a lot that goes on behind the scenes that is engineered and manipulated by a small number of people affecting the rest of the world. Whether it is as cloak and danger and immoral as implied Im not sure but I do genuinely believe we dont know the half of it.
When it comes to money and power i wouldnt put anything past humans and thinking about the amount of corruption and wrong doing by those in power that we are privy to makes me also wonder what they dont let us know about.
I dont worry about it too much as it'll never get proved/ disproved (at least not in my lifetime) and those who speak about such matters are generally ridiculed eg David Ike (although he did lose me with the lizards and the shell suit.)
Watched a few links cited on here over the last couple of days and whilst there is an obvious agenda and anti- establishment theme, amidst some of the more sketchy allegations there are lots of things in them that aren't or can't be satisfactorily rebuked and raise serious questions/ point to elements of truth in what the "conspiracy theorists are saying.
Interesting stuff and shame it doesnt get afforded the same audience as X Factor and Corrie.
[cite]Posted By: Leroy Ambrose[/cite]This thread is incredible. I am a pretty pessimistic bloke in general, but even I didn't believe that there were this many imbeciles in the world.
Yes Leroy, everyone else is wrong and you are right. I can't believe that with so many coincidences you believe everything happened the way it is said to have.
Er Colt - I think you will find it is the overwhelming MAJORITY of the world who DONT think the USA was behind 9/11
Not sure why you say Leroy thinks EVERYONE else is wrong, when it is the tiny minority who think it was the US Government that he is referring to.
So it really is YOUR view that EVERYONE ELSE is wrong and you are right.
[cite]Posted By: MrOneLung[/cite]Er Colt - I think you will find it is the overwhelming MAJORITY of the world who DONT think the USA was behind 9/11
Not sure why you say Leroy thinks EVERYONE else is wrong, when it is the tiny minority who think it was the US Government that he is referring to.
So it really is YOUR view that EVERYONE ELSE is wrong and you are right.
No, his view is just because I disagree without someone it doesn't mean they're wrong.
Comments
You can add god to that list...
Being a follower of scientology is no more crazy than being a catholic/christian who believes in god (the same said for all other religions too)
The attack on the pentagon is not so much of a mystery, many parts of the TC planes have been found but not one iota of the pentagon plane. An arms expert has stated that supposed parts of the plane are from a missile, the parts have never been allowed to be examined by an independent inspector. There are many videos showing the damage caused to that building, no way was it caused by a plane.
A week or so after the 9/11 attacks a passenger plane similar to the one that 'crashed' into the pentagon crashed in New York, practically the whole plane was reconstructed by crash investigators, planes just don't disappear, just like buildings on fire don't collapse...
Why would the US allow several thousand of it's citizens to die in such a manner, simple, they don't matter. In the greater scheme of things they are a small price to pay for what they have achieved militarily. Complete control of an Arab state, its forces, its bases, its airspace, Iraq is just one massive embarkation point for wherever they see fit to invade next, probably Iran...
Why invade Afghanistan? A few weeks after invading the Afghan government signed an agreement allowing a fuel line to be built righ across Afghanistan allowing gas to be pumped to US ships waiting in a southern port. The US army is there to guard it...
Why would the US commit the demonstrative acts of aggression? OIL...!
It's running out, the US are getting their foot in the door to protect their own interests, wherever there's oil the US will be involved, their appetite for the stuff is insatiable...
I disagree. The theory of evolution put forward by Darwin and Wallace, and the subsequent molecular biology shows that we have evolved over millions of years. That cannot be disputed.
If we take christianity as an example:
It states that the humans originated from adam and eve...if that was the case, I dont think we would have such a diverse population around the world
The mere fact that the bible suggests humans were put on this plaent by god is incomplete contradiction to the theory of evolution. DNA and other conserved macromolecules (proteins etc) are found right down the evolutionary chain... for example we have proteins in us that worms and flies have (with no real difference in animo acid structure, or even that DNA that encodes it).
As much as I would like to believe someone could turn water into wine, I doubt very much that is true.
I also very much doubt that a women could give birth to a child without the need for sexual intercourse
I also very much doubt that man could come back to life ...
Religious people often say "well, were did the universe come from, if God didnt make it"
Well, where did God come from?
Radiation emmited from the "Big Bang" has been recorded and its now an accepted theory that the universe was derived from this point (Rather than a man in the sky making it)
Just because something is thousands of years old, does not mean it cant be utter bollacks....
In the same vein though you cannot prove that what you believe to be true is true. And what is the 'truth' anyway? The truth usually always gets discarded (in time / through history) and replaced by FACT.
It seems to me that your views are probably the type that shows that it is you that has their 'eyes closed' on this matter as you are not open to investigate different possibilities, preferring to follow the official line.
Be careful about ridiculing others, the joke could be on you one day, though you may not find it that funny.
just wondered what people thought about it.
I watched The Event last night, 1st episode of series 2 and i know its a tv show but i would be very suprised if the U.S government werent the same as how they are portrayed in the show
its not ridicule its just utter complete and total bollox. Thats a FACT
Well I think Leroy is great, even if he hates Apple!!!
Oh come on Leroy don't be like that, this thread is your baby (your comment on the Japanese Earthquake thread sparked it) and has rolled on and on in your honour ;-)
A woman? Yep, happens reasonably often. That particular woman? We have no way of knowing.
Again, happens every day.
But again, this is only the best answer we have. This universe may have been derived from this point, but we don't know that there weren't other universes before that, or if there even was any "before" before that.
But when something is thousands of years old it can be more difficult to disprove that certain events associated with it did or didn't happen. Which I think was Leroy's point.
You're absolutely right Guru.
In the whole history of steel framed buildings three of them have indeed collapsed as a result of fire.
All on the same day in New York City.
1) The US government were responsible for the 9/11 attacks
2) The US government had prior intelligence of an Al Qaida attack but allowed it to happen to justify an attack on Iraq/Afghanistan for the pursuit of oil
3) Complete load of bollocks and US retaliation (whether justifiable or not) was inevitable after a sickening act of terrorism
4) Open minded, but something smells fishy....
As a regular Guardian reader I have to agree with Goonerhater on this one. (Never thought I would see the day when I would write that sentence!) This conspiracy theory has as much credence as the various theories that support the Holocaust deniers.
Let's just hope that one of the people involved in creating the great cover up doesn't have too many Bud Lights one night and spills the beans.....or are those people no longer with us..#Theme tune from the Twightlight Zone now playing#
When it comes to money and power i wouldnt put anything past humans and thinking about the amount of corruption and wrong doing by those in power that we are privy to makes me also wonder what they dont let us know about.
I dont worry about it too much as it'll never get proved/ disproved (at least not in my lifetime) and those who speak about such matters are generally ridiculed eg David Ike (although he did lose me with the lizards and the shell suit.)
Watched a few links cited on here over the last couple of days and whilst there is an obvious agenda and anti- establishment theme, amidst some of the more sketchy allegations there are lots of things in them that aren't or can't be satisfactorily rebuked and raise serious questions/ point to elements of truth in what the "conspiracy theorists are saying.
Interesting stuff and shame it doesnt get afforded the same audience as X Factor and Corrie.
Not sure why you say Leroy thinks EVERYONE else is wrong, when it is the tiny minority who think it was the US Government that he is referring to.
So it really is YOUR view that EVERYONE ELSE is wrong and you are right.