[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]didn't make the bench tonight. Flatters to deceive. He can leave as we have Harriott anyway.
The time has come to stop dismissing talented players in this way. The same was said about Jerome Thomas and Ambrose to name but two. Perhaps it's time we looked at ourselves as a club rather than the players. Why can we never get the best out of such players, whilst they invariably go on to thrive at other clubs?
I also think it's very unreasonable to judge a players season when he's only played the odd 15 minutes here and there and has not had a prolonged run in a settled team.
We will never progress as a club until we start rectifying the cause of why players like Reid are not performing to their true ability. The downward spiral will continue so long as we keep offloading our most talented players whilst bringing in 4th rate "donkeys" to replace them. If Powell wants to make any progress he will need to identify the best players and start building the squad around them.
Couldn't agree more. Why is that so many players go on to do better elsewhere? Thomas is now a prem regular, Ambrose one of the championships top midfielders. You can add Bothroyd to that list as well, total rubbish for us but now one of the champs top strikers and even got an England call up. Hudson a championship regular too but wasn't very good for us. Varney is doing well in the prem week in week out. Even Campbell-ryce is doing well at a higher level than us.
[cite]Posted By: Six-a-bag-of-nuts[/cite]I still think your "Charlton eyes" are rose-tinted.
You may have seen something in Ambrose (I'm sure most did) but I'd contend he didn't deliver in Charlton shirt
No, he didn't deliver in a Charlton shirt consistently enough but most didn't see ANYTHING in Ambrose and repeatedly said so.
He wasn't Charltonised, he just was what he was when we bought him but people couldn't see that.
It's not rose tinted, it's balanced. Charlton Eyes are the opposite of Rose-tinted ie every player is bad, lazy, poor attitude, lacks talent and fight/passion and that is because they play for us and some mythical "Charltonised" process.
Christ!
At the risk of labouring the point.
Ambrose was largely ineffectual at Charlton in a way he isn't at Palace.
That has nothing to do with your proverbial "Charlton eyes"
[cite]Posted By: Six-a-bag-of-nuts[/cite]I still think your "Charlton eyes" are rose-tinted.
You may have seen something in Ambrose (I'm sure most did) but I'd contend he didn't deliver in Charlton shirt
No, he didn't deliver in a Charlton shirt consistently enough but most didn't see ANYTHING in Ambrose and repeatedly said so.
He wasn't Charltonised, he just was what he was when we bought him but people couldn't see that.
It's not rose tinted, it's balanced. Charlton Eyes are the opposite of Rose-tinted ie every player is bad, lazy, poor attitude, lacks talent and fight/passion and that is because they play for us and some mythical "Charltonised" process.
Christ!
At the risk of labouring the point.
Ambrose was largely ineffectual at Charlton in a way he isn't at Palace.
That has nothing to do with your proverbial "Charlton eyes"
From what I've read Ambrose isn't that different to what he was here. He's just playing with more freedom, so he scores/creates goals and others cover for his weaknesses.
We usually played him in midfield in a 4-4-2, often with another player that couldn't or wouldn't defend.
Where/how they play him I don't know (I've read both on the left in a 4-3-3 and just off the striker) but in the Prem we expected him to track back and defend (probably understandable at the top level), in the Championship as I said he was alongside midfielders with similar weaknesses. That clearly didn't get the best out of him, he was less of a goal threat and wasn't strong defensively.
We've all seen Kyle Reid's strengths and - when he's on form, he can be unplayable.
But surely we've seen his weaknesses too? For example, quite often static on his touchline as the game passes him by,
and reluctant to track back and cover his full back, when opponents attack....... plus frequently poor decision making when he does have the ball, running into trouble and losing possession too easily.
With the players we have, whenever he played the team has looked defensively vulnerable
He has also been a bit unlucky, as the system changed to accomodate 3 CM's.
I can understand his frustration - but IMO, when he has played he hasn't really looked like he wanted it enough.
Prove me wrong, Kyel?
My guess as with most talented individuals who fail to perform Kyle Reid's problem is Kyle Reid. He knows where his game is weak - but he just doesn't want to do anything about it. Anyone see any improvement in his getting back to defend, decision making or passing in recent times. My guess is that at long last someone in management has been brutally honest with him and that is why he is currently in "sulk" mode - and possibly a few others as well.
Ambrose scored goals for us and did nothing else. He scores for Palace and does nothing else...he has not changed one bit since he left us, kicking around in a team 4th bottom in the Champ is where he was when he played for us...why do you think Warnock did not take him to QPR with him. All this Charltonised talk is utter rubbish - we have just bought garbage players recently thats all
The biggest issue with Reid is not skill, attitude or work ethic. He just doesn't possess a football brain. It means he often makes the wrong decisions, holds onto the ball too long, shoots when he should cross, cross when he should shoot etc. There's so rarely an end product.
Powell will know whether or not any of this can be coached into him. He's rarely been effective this season, and if you can only pull out one or two games in this long season in which he's been effective, well perhaps them's the exceptions proving the rule.
[cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]We've all seen Kyle Reid's strengths and - when he's on form, he can be unplayable.
But surely we've seen his weaknesses too? For example, quite often static on his touchline as the game passes him by,
and reluctant to track back and cover his full back, when opponents attack....... plus frequently poor decision making when he does have the ball, running into trouble and losing possession too easily.
With the players we have, whenever he played the team has looked defensively vulnerable
He has also been a bit unlucky, as the system changed to accomodate 3 CM's.
I can understand his frustration - but IMO, when he has played he hasn't really looked like he wanted it enough.
Prove me wrong, Kyel?
Think that's a fair assessment Oggy. For all his direct running and pace and power, Reidy is severly lacking in football brains at times. When you look at an out of form reidy, it highlights how good some aspects of Lloyd Sam's game were - he didn't have the explosive pace that Reidy has, but he was a much more well rounded footballer and another who was booed out of the place for 'not putting it in'.
At Charlton we seem to idolise hard working limited players but expect miracles from anyone with the tiniest bit of natural talent.
[cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]We've all seen Kyle Reid's strengths and - when he's on form, he can be unplayable.
But surely we've seen his weaknesses too? For example, quite often static on his touchline as the game passes him by,
and reluctant to track back and cover his full back, when opponents attack....... plus frequently poor decision making when he does have the ball, running into trouble and losing possession too easily.
With the players we have, whenever he played the team has looked defensively vulnerable
He has also been a bit unlucky, as the system changed to accomodate 3 CM's.
I can understand his frustration - but IMO, when he has played he hasn't really looked like he wanted it enough.
Prove me wrong, Kyel?
Think that's a fair assessment Oggy. For all his direct running and pace and power, Reidy is severly lacking in football brains at times. When you look at an out of form reidy, it highlights how good some aspects of Lloyd Sam's game were - he didn't have the explosive pace that Reidy has, but he was a much more well rounded footballer and another who was booed out of the place for 'not putting it in'.
At Charlton we seem to idolise hard working limited players but expect miracles from anyone with the tiniest bit of natural talent.
Some of us will boo hardworking perceived limited players too. No problem!
Comments
Couldn't agree more. Why is that so many players go on to do better elsewhere? Thomas is now a prem regular, Ambrose one of the championships top midfielders. You can add Bothroyd to that list as well, total rubbish for us but now one of the champs top strikers and even got an England call up. Hudson a championship regular too but wasn't very good for us. Varney is doing well in the prem week in week out. Even Campbell-ryce is doing well at a higher level than us.
Christ!
At the risk of labouring the point.
Ambrose was largely ineffectual at Charlton in a way he isn't at Palace.
That has nothing to do with your proverbial "Charlton eyes"
Disagree.
We usually played him in midfield in a 4-4-2, often with another player that couldn't or wouldn't defend.
Where/how they play him I don't know (I've read both on the left in a 4-3-3 and just off the striker) but in the Prem we expected him to track back and defend (probably understandable at the top level), in the Championship as I said he was alongside midfielders with similar weaknesses. That clearly didn't get the best out of him, he was less of a goal threat and wasn't strong defensively.
I suspect if he was playing for anyone else in this league that he'd be playing every week and being raved about....just my hunch
I personally don't think he's had a fair crack with us, with a consistant run of games.
But surely we've seen his weaknesses too? For example, quite often static on his touchline as the game passes him by,
and reluctant to track back and cover his full back, when opponents attack....... plus frequently poor decision making when he does have the ball, running into trouble and losing possession too easily.
With the players we have, whenever he played the team has looked defensively vulnerable
He has also been a bit unlucky, as the system changed to accomodate 3 CM's.
I can understand his frustration - but IMO, when he has played he hasn't really looked like he wanted it enough.
Prove me wrong, Kyel?
Powell will know whether or not any of this can be coached into him. He's rarely been effective this season, and if you can only pull out one or two games in this long season in which he's been effective, well perhaps them's the exceptions proving the rule.
Think that's a fair assessment Oggy. For all his direct running and pace and power, Reidy is severly lacking in football brains at times. When you look at an out of form reidy, it highlights how good some aspects of Lloyd Sam's game were - he didn't have the explosive pace that Reidy has, but he was a much more well rounded footballer and another who was booed out of the place for 'not putting it in'.
At Charlton we seem to idolise hard working limited players but expect miracles from anyone with the tiniest bit of natural talent.
Some of us will boo hardworking perceived limited players too. No problem!
Exhibit A Kish!