Don't forget the language that a lot of the school and college leavers speak with,
It does genuinely seem to be
Innit blud, wa go onin
Let's be honest how many people would you employ who can't even pull their trousers up over their arse or who wear trackie bottoms under jeans and can't pull either up over their arse
I am the furthest thing from a regular poster on this forum, I usually just read threads to find out what fellow Charlton fans are talking about, but some of the outrageous and ignorant codswallop spewing across this thread has infuriated me to such an extent that I am forced to post.
Let’s just deal with each point made one by one:
1. Build more prisons.
You want to base job creation on the incarceration of thousands of young people if they do not accept jobs which are forced upon them? Sorry, but I don’t really want to live in a Nazi police state.
2. Young people are too lazy to apply for lowly paid jobs.
I got 9 As in my GCSEs, I got AAB at A Level and I got a 2:1 at English Law, French Law and French Language at university. During this time I did more than my fair share of part time jobs and a bit of work experience. I’ve worked at a supermarket, at a builders merchants, as a pizza delivery driver, as a student ambassador, as a shoes salesman, as an administrator and on the census. Hard working? Maybe not, because I’ve had a good life so far.
And guess what job I’m currently doing - scanning, printing and shredding for a company for piss poor money despite having applied for in excess of 50 graduate positions since finishing uni in July.
Have I been lazy?
Have I got unrealistic expectations?
If someone had told me that, once I graduated, I’d be shredding paper I would have left school at 16 and become a trainee electrician. WE NEED BETTER ADVICE.
Admittedly the 10 most popular degrees do include design studies and psychology. But it also has nursing, business management, law, medicine, computer science, english studies and social work.
What areas are you interested in working in? Send me a private message on here and I will send you details of my firm's graduate entry scheme.
I am the furthest thing from a regular poster on this forum, I usually just read threads to find out what fellow Charlton fans are talking about, but some of the outrageous and ignorant codswallop spewing across this thread has infuriated me to such an extent that I am forced to post.
Let’s just deal with each point made one by one:
1. Build more prisons.
You want to base job creation on the incarceration of thousands of young people if they do not accept jobs which are forced upon them? Sorry, but I don’t really want to live in a Nazi police state.
2. Young people are too lazy to apply for lowly paid jobs.
I got 9 As in my GCSEs, I got AAB at A Level and I got a 2:1 at English Law, French Law and French Language at university. During this time I did more than my fair share of part time jobs and a bit of work experience. I’ve worked at a supermarket, at a builders merchants, as a pizza delivery driver, as a student ambassador, as a shoes salesman, as an administrator and on the census. Hard working? Maybe not, because I’ve had a good life so far.
And guess what job I’m currently doing - scanning, printing and shredding for a company for piss poor money despite having applied for in excess of 50 graduate positions since finishing uni in July.
Have I been lazy?
Have I got unrealistic expectations?
If someone had told me that, once I graduated, I’d be shredding paper I would have left school at 16 and become a trainee electrician. WE NEED BETTER ADVICE.
Admittedly the 10 most popular degrees do include design studies and psychology. But it also has nursing, business management, law, medicine, computer science, english studies and social work.
The point is that building the prisons will provide the apprenticeships you require. What happens when the job seekers allowance runs out? Petty crime, drugs etc etc. That is the section of the community i'm talking about, not you who is clearly wanting to work. Nazi state is different to a state where people are allowed to turn down work because they don't fancy it. Where is their money coming from to survive?
Well for a start GH you are not comparing like for like are you. Contract work is always at a premium due to its short term nature for starters. Maybe the extra dough given to the NHS/LA jobs reflects the additional responsibility of looking after complex multi, multi million facilities in a political environment and not a row of retail outlets ultimately?
I also sure if you look you could find many jobs that would support the exact opposit argument so not sure what point you are making.
This issue is not about private v public sector no matter how the gov try to spin it.
BA yes its not 100% apples for apples but all those 3 are temp contracts in the last two years the Public sector temp contracts are fewer but the rate has stayed much higher.
Westminster City Council had at least 1 temp contract on £1,000 a day. In the dept where i was at least 3 were on £400 a day(1 for 4 years !). Other councils are worse.
Remember the ID card bollox i worked with a lady who was on £500 a day on that project and in her dept there was at least 4 on a £1,000 a day---all wasted.
I worked with her at a PCT and three of us where on £275 a day
I am the furthest thing from a regular poster on this forum, I usually just read threads to find out what fellow Charlton fans are talking about, but some of the outrageous and ignorant codswallop spewing across this thread has infuriated me to such an extent that I am forced to post.
Let’s just deal with each point made one by one:
1. Build more prisons.
You want to base job creation on the incarceration of thousands of young people if they do not accept jobs which are forced upon them? Sorry, but I don’t really want to live in a Nazi police state.
2. Young people are too lazy to apply for lowly paid jobs.
I got 9 As in my GCSEs, I got AAB at A Level and I got a 2:1 at English Law, French Law and French Language at university. During this time I did more than my fair share of part time jobs and a bit of work experience. I’ve worked at a supermarket, at a builders merchants, as a pizza delivery driver, as a student ambassador, as a shoes salesman, as an administrator and on the census. Hard working? Maybe not, because I’ve had a good life so far.
And guess what job I’m currently doing - scanning, printing and shredding for a company for piss poor money despite having applied for in excess of 50 graduate positions since finishing uni in July.
Have I been lazy?
Have I got unrealistic expectations?
If someone had told me that, once I graduated, I’d be shredding paper I would have left school at 16 and become a trainee electrician. WE NEED BETTER ADVICE.
Admittedly the 10 most popular degrees do include design studies and psychology. But it also has nursing, business management, law, medicine, computer science, english studies and social work.
What did you want to do once you graduated? If Law, have you not picked one of the hardest careers to get in to? I know several people who have had to pack that plan in & pursure other careers. Sad but true.
I agree kids need more advice, more options, more work based learning, more vocational courses at a younger age etc.
I went to Uni mainly for the reason I did well enough at school to do so and we were pushed by the school & parents to go. Didn't enjoy it, wasn't for me & sadly not many kids are told that. You just get told to go no matter what.
BA yes its not 100% apples for apples but all those 3 are temp contracts in the last two years the Public sector temp contracts are fewer but the rate has stayed much higher.
Westminster City Council had at least 1 temp contract on £1,000 a day. In the dept where i was at least 3 were on £400 a day(1 for 4 years !). Other councils are worse.
Remember the ID card bollox i worked with a lady who was on £500 a day on that project and in her dept there was at least 4 on a £1,000 a day---all wasted.
I worked with her at a PCT and three of us where on £275 a day
My last contract rate was £480 per day. I had no leave, no sick pay, no benefits, no lunch hour and couldn't take a day off until the project was finished (four months). This was in the private sector, not public. It also took me six weeks to find another role at the end of it. Contract work is paid well, but is extremely insecure and, by its very nature, temporary.
I agree sparrows, vocational degrees and apprenticeships are the way forward. The degree system was the preserve of the rich or extremely gifted years ago - so you were either going to be sought after or had parents who could support you once you finished. Now, every Tom, Dick and Harry does a degree just for the sake of doing it and i agree with errbody that there should be better advice given and maybe that advice should come from people in industry because teachers tend to see things from an educational viewpoint and the reality is that your first concern should be about being able to pay your way, not expanding your mind with a load of topics that really aren't going to lead to anything. We have a graduate who has started here with a degree in french, spanish and german - not sure who advised that and it may be useful in the long run - just lucky he's from a well to do family. I'm not saying that it is right that the degree system shouldn't be available to more than just the rich but there are consequences if your joe average and you ain't rich.
@ Bexley Dan - you're a QS, or I presume you still are based on a previous post in this thread or somewhere recently....my old firm & current firm take on a dozen or so plus graduates each summer, mainly from Reading (good QS reputation) with a RICS accredited degree, they are 22 years old, seem to mainly come from wealthy backgrounds, come into the office thinking they know it all, have a lack of site experience, took a career in QS because long term they'd rather do property development/management with daddys or daddys friends money and start off on a decent wage & are paid to study for their APC which you required the accredited degree for (unless you go the experience route)
My big idea is fuck all that. I'd rather see QS firms developing a work based learning scheme in tandem with a college and liaise with contractors for kids from 16-19 to get site based experienceand office experience. Take kids from GCSE & A-Level, develop them, train them and RICS should recognise this & allow them to sit their APC based on reaching the same competencies without having a outdated accredited degree.
But the RICS won't go for that, senior management won't like it, firms won't like it, and it's bloody shame cos I'd rather see young kids given a go, who are raw and eager to develop.
BA yes its not 100% apples for apples but all those 3 are temp contracts in the last two years the Public sector temp contracts are fewer but the rate has stayed much higher.
Westminster City Council had at least 1 temp contract on £1,000 a day. In the dept where i was at least 3 were on £400 a day(1 for 4 years !). Other councils are worse.
Remember the ID card bollox i worked with a lady who was on £500 a day on that project and in her dept there was at least 4 on a £1,000 a day---all wasted.
I worked with her at a PCT and three of us where on £275 a day
My last contract rate was £480 per day. I had no leave, no sick pay, no benefits, no lunch hour and couldn't take a day off until the project was finished (four months). This was in the private sector, not public. It also took me six weeks to find another role at the end of it. Contract work is paid well, but is extremely insecure and, by its very nature, temporary.
Holiday pay has been paid by law to contract workers for at least the last 7 years. It's paid either into a separate fund or included in the hourly rate unless you are working as an individual provider of services and not as an employee. As you know, the taxman is very hot on such arrangements No-one gets paid for their lunch hour except perhaps for city b-ankers. At your last rate of pay you picked up over £30,000 before stoppages and I presume you were working as a limited company and not paying PAYE and A rate NI. After four months continuous work I would have thought you'd be glad of a six week break. I have worked in similar roles to the one you outline and I know a long break after an arduous contract was just what I needed.
As to the new legislation which treats contract workers the same as full time employess, this acts as a DISINCENTIVE FOR EMPLOYERS. Employing people nowadays is very expensive. Even huge companies like Tesco and M&S, the new 'work factories' are not replacing staff when they leave and depending on student cover over holiday periods. The increase in pension age means that fewer jobs are freed up due to retirements and expensive to implement EEC legislation, although well intended and aimed at improving the lot of the workers, is having the reverse affect. Most companies are not charities they are out to make a profit and if that means employing fewer staff after paying increased utility bills, taxes, fuel bills and rents, that is what they will do.
My big idea is fuck all that. I'd rather see QS firms developing a work based learning scheme in tandem with a college and liaise with contractors for kids from 16-19 to get site based experienceand office experience. Take kids from GCSE & A-Level, develop them, train them and RICS should recognise this & allow them to sit their APC based on reaching the same competencies without having a outdated accredited degree.
But the RICS won't go for that, senior management won't like it, firms won't like it, and it's bloody shame cos I'd rather see young kids given a go, who are raw and eager to develop.
I do some work with a firm in Croydon who have done just that. Took a school leaver thru Btec and HND and is now doing degree via Reading. Also converted an administrator into a QS/project manager and she is doing degree via Reading too. She was already a graduate in another field. There not the biggest firm but as a group employ a couple of 100 people.
RICS and the other bodies didn't seem to have any problems.
Few years ago when it was hard to get project managers and engineers they took non-coms ie graduates in different fields (one had a classics degree) and trained them up. Fewer vacancies now so not so common.
"II went to Uni mainly for the reason I did well enough at school to do so and we were pushed by the school & parents to go. Didn't enjoy it, wasn't for me & sadly not many kids are told that. You just get told to go no matter what".
This is so true. To those saying "what are you gonna do with your degree?", you ask that question because you don't know about the pressure you are put under to go in the first place. At my sixth form and most, the attitude is "go to uni or you ain't gonna be shit". After a few months of graduating I wanted to go back to my sixth form teachers and say "Here's my 2:1, what now?". They don't tell you that bit
"II went to Uni mainly for the reason I did well enough at school to do so and we were pushed by the school & parents to go. Didn't enjoy it, wasn't for me & sadly not many kids are told that. You just get told to go no matter what".
This is so true. To those saying "what are you gonna do with your degree?", you ask that question because you don't know about the pressure you are put under to go in the first place. At my sixth form and most, the attitude is "go to uni or you ain't gonna be shit". After a few months of graduating I wanted to go back to my sixth form teachers and say "Here's my 2:1, what now?". They don't tell you that bit
Most degrees are the new 'O' levels .. everyone seems to have one so the value of a degree (mostly) gets less and less .. Check out Greshams Law, it's about money but applies to all gluts and availabilities.
I think anyone who signs on should be used by the council and spend every day sweeping up leaves, emptying bins, cleaning graffiti, picking up litter, doing volunteer work at nurseries, schools, hospitals, drop in centres, etc.
Seems stupid paying people to do nothing.
uhmm. I was employed from June 1980 to January 2011 when I was made redundant. I was determined to sign on as I had certainly paid enough in and felt I was owed something back. Whilst signing on I spent at least four hours a day looking for jobs, applying for jobs, talking to agencies etc. Through this I am now employed again and paying taxes again. How would I have done this had I been sweeping leaves, emptying bins, cleaning graffiti etc ? I'd still be on benefits and not paying taxes again. Not everyone unemployed is a scrounger and unwilling to work.
My big idea is fuck all that. I'd rather see QS firms developing a work based learning scheme in tandem with a college and liaise with contractors for kids from 16-19 to get site based experienceand office experience. Take kids from GCSE & A-Level, develop them, train them and RICS should recognise this & allow them to sit their APC based on reaching the same competencies without having a outdated accredited degree.
But the RICS won't go for that, senior management won't like it, firms won't like it, and it's bloody shame cos I'd rather see young kids given a go, who are raw and eager to develop.
I do some work with a firm in Croydon who have done just that. Took a school leaver thru Btec and HND and is now doing degree via Reading. Also converted an administrator into a QS/project manager and she is doing degree via Reading too. She was already a graduate in another field. There not the biggest firm but as a group employ a couple of 100 people.
RICS and the other bodies didn't seem to have any problems.
Few years ago when it was hard to get project managers and engineers they took non-coms ie graduates in different fields (one had a classics degree) and trained them up. Fewer vacancies now so not so common.
They still need their RICS accredited degree though, both firms I spoke about take on trainees, but it's day release. I'd rather see a more integrated work based learning scheme as the stuff you learn at college & uni is very out-dated for what you do in the office.Certain firms are still very stuffy about where they recruit from etc and who will be future partners etc.
I think anyone who signs on should be used by the council and spend every day sweeping up leaves, emptying bins, cleaning graffiti, picking up litter, doing volunteer work at nurseries, schools, hospitals, drop in centres, etc.
Seems stupid paying people to do nothing.
uhmm. I was employed from June 1980 to January 2011 when I was made redundant. I was determined to sign on as I had certainly paid enough in and felt I was owed something back. Whilst signing on I spent at least four hours a day looking for jobs, applying for jobs, talking to agencies etc. Through this I am now employed again and paying taxes again. How would I have done this had I been sweeping leaves, emptying bins, cleaning graffiti etc ? I'd still be on benefits and not paying taxes again. Not everyone unemployed is a scrounger and unwilling to work.
I doubt anyone is suggesting a 40 hour week for the unemployed. Even a couple of days a week or a few hours a day would still leave plenty of time for job searching.
something to do with us being in/at the end/at the beginning, of a huge recession creating a large number of unemployed - who normally suffers in this situation?
*part time workers, who tend to be women and young people
*new employees (cut as companies tighten their belts) who tend to be young people
*UK born workers who aren't or can't afford to, take low paid crap jobs, as they don't sleep 20 to a room then piss of back to their poor Eastern European country where the cost of living is far lower?
similar situation under Thatcher, she just didn't have the nicey nicey PR, right kids?
Or is it the lunchtime pints I just got back from?
Not sure there is an answer other than get them working somehow somewhere even if not paid much
@ Bexley Dan - you're a QS, or I presume you still are based on a previous post in this thread or somewhere recently....my old firm & current firm take on a dozen or so plus graduates each summer, mainly from Reading (good QS reputation) with a RICS accredited degree, they are 22 years old, seem to mainly come from wealthy backgrounds, come into the office thinking they know it all, have a lack of site experience, took a career in QS because long term they'd rather do property development/management with daddys or daddys friends money and start off on a decent wage & are paid to study for their APC which you required the accredited degree for (unless you go the experience route)
My big idea is fuck all that. I'd rather see QS firms developing a work based learning scheme in tandem with a college and liaise with contractors for kids from 16-19 to get site based experienceand office experience. Take kids from GCSE & A-Level, develop them, train them and RICS should recognise this & allow them to sit their APC based on reaching the same competencies without having a outdated accredited degree.
But the RICS won't go for that, senior management won't like it, firms won't like it, and it's bloody shame cos I'd rather see young kids given a go, who are raw and eager to develop.
We (large QS / PM etc consultancy) take more and more kids on at 16 and 17 now. I don't believe there are any degrees that give you an RICS accreditation as you still have to do your APC but certainly i've always been of the opinion that you are a much better surveyor, much more quickly if you leave at 16 join a firm, do day release OND / HND or todays equivalent and then finish your degree part time whilst i think starting your APC dary etc in the last year of that. I did a QS degree after A levels, partly part time and then spent 4 years (failed first time after 3 and re took a year later) doing my diary / APC. It was a bloody hard slog and i hated doing it to be honest but knew it had to be done and, as i say, has stood me in good stead.
The graduate i was talking about above actually has a french and Spanish degree but not German. He finished one, then did a masters or bridging thing or something. I think i read on here that somebody had a son who was 32 and never been to work but has this degree and that masters etc. What's the point other than avoiding work?
Comments
I wish you the best of luck and I hope you one day get a dream job as I reckon you have worked hard enough for it.
It does genuinely seem to be
Innit blud, wa go onin
Let's be honest how many people would you employ who can't even pull their trousers up over their arse or who wear trackie bottoms under jeans and can't pull either up over their arse
Great post Errbody, keep posting as it's good to have some balance from the like of you and MattD who are actually living it.
I also sure if you look you could find many jobs that would support the exact opposit argument so not sure what point you are making.
This issue is not about private v public sector no matter how the gov try to spin it.
What did you want to do once you graduated? If Law, have you not picked one of the hardest careers to get in to? I know several people who have had to pack that plan in & pursure other careers. Sad but true.
I agree kids need more advice, more options, more work based learning, more vocational courses at a younger age etc.
I went to Uni mainly for the reason I did well enough at school to do so and we were pushed by the school & parents to go. Didn't enjoy it, wasn't for me & sadly not many kids are told that. You just get told to go no matter what.
@ Bexley Dan - you're a QS, or I presume you still are based on a previous post in this thread or somewhere recently....my old firm & current firm take on a dozen or so plus graduates each summer, mainly from Reading (good QS reputation) with a RICS accredited degree, they are 22 years old, seem to mainly come from wealthy backgrounds, come into the office thinking they know it all, have a lack of site experience, took a career in QS because long term they'd rather do property development/management with daddys or daddys friends money and start off on a decent wage & are paid to study for their APC which you required the accredited degree for (unless you go the experience route)
My big idea is fuck all that. I'd rather see QS firms developing a work based learning scheme in tandem with a college and liaise with contractors for kids from 16-19 to get site based experienceand office experience. Take kids from GCSE & A-Level, develop them, train them and RICS should recognise this & allow them to sit their APC based on reaching the same competencies without having a outdated accredited degree.
But the RICS won't go for that, senior management won't like it, firms won't like it, and it's bloody shame cos I'd rather see young kids given a go, who are raw and eager to develop.
Holiday pay has been paid by law to contract workers for at least the last 7 years. It's paid either into a separate fund or included in the hourly rate unless you are working as an individual provider of services and not as an employee. As you know, the taxman is very hot on such arrangements No-one gets paid for their lunch hour except perhaps for city b-ankers. At your last rate of pay you picked up over £30,000 before stoppages and I presume you were working as a limited company and not paying PAYE and A rate NI. After four months continuous work I would have thought you'd be glad of a six week break. I have worked in similar roles to the one you outline and I know a long break after an arduous contract was just what I needed.
As to the new legislation which treats contract workers the same as full time employess, this acts as a DISINCENTIVE FOR EMPLOYERS. Employing people nowadays is very expensive. Even huge companies like Tesco and M&S, the new 'work factories' are not replacing staff when they leave and depending on student cover over holiday periods. The increase in pension age means that fewer jobs are freed up due to retirements and expensive to implement EEC legislation, although well intended and aimed at improving the lot of the workers, is having the reverse affect. Most companies are not charities they are out to make a profit and if that means employing fewer staff after paying increased utility bills, taxes, fuel bills and rents, that is what they will do.
RICS and the other bodies didn't seem to have any problems.
Few years ago when it was hard to get project managers and engineers they took non-coms ie graduates in different fields (one had a classics degree) and trained them up. Fewer vacancies now so not so common.
This is so true. To those saying "what are you gonna do with your degree?", you ask that question because you don't know about the pressure you are put under to go in the first place. At my sixth form and most, the attitude is "go to uni or you ain't gonna be shit". After a few months of graduating I wanted to go back to my sixth form teachers and say "Here's my 2:1, what now?". They don't tell you that bit
uhmm. I was employed from June 1980 to January 2011 when I was made redundant. I was determined to sign on as I had certainly paid enough in and felt I was owed something back. Whilst signing on I spent at least four hours a day looking for jobs, applying for jobs, talking to agencies etc. Through this I am now employed again and paying taxes again. How would I have done this had I been sweeping leaves, emptying bins, cleaning graffiti etc ? I'd still be on benefits and not paying taxes again. Not everyone unemployed is a scrounger and unwilling to work.
something to do with us being in/at the end/at the beginning, of a huge recession creating a large number of unemployed - who normally suffers in this situation?
*part time workers, who tend to be women and young people
*new employees (cut as companies tighten their belts) who tend to be young people
*UK born workers who aren't or can't afford to, take low paid crap jobs, as they don't sleep 20 to a room then piss of back to their poor Eastern European country where the cost of living is far lower?
similar situation under Thatcher, she just didn't have the nicey nicey PR, right kids?
Or is it the lunchtime pints I just got back from?
Not sure there is an answer other than get them working somehow somewhere even if not paid much
We (large QS / PM etc consultancy) take more and more kids on at 16 and 17 now. I don't believe there are any degrees that give you an RICS accreditation as you still have to do your APC but certainly i've always been of the opinion that you are a much better surveyor, much more quickly if you leave at 16 join a firm, do day release OND / HND or todays equivalent and then finish your degree part time whilst i think starting your APC dary etc in the last year of that. I did a QS degree after A levels, partly part time and then spent 4 years (failed first time after 3 and re took a year later) doing my diary / APC. It was a bloody hard slog and i hated doing it to be honest but knew it had to be done and, as i say, has stood me in good stead.
The graduate i was talking about above actually has a french and Spanish degree but not German. He finished one, then did a masters or bridging thing or something. I think i read on here that somebody had a son who was 32 and never been to work but has this degree and that masters etc. What's the point other than avoiding work?