You might want to go back to the Egyptians you hail and ask them exactly how well its all working out for them. I think you'll find its not quite the rosy utopia they were hoping for.
really? .. where does the Grauniad (sic) find these 'economic experts'? .. probably in the snug bar of the local working man's club. If tax relief on pension contributions was to be abolished, the take up on private and public pension schemes would tumble even faster than it already is tumbling .. less pension provision paid for by the individual puts more strain on an already overstretched and hard to fund benefit system. As to the huge profits to be made from PPI schemes, inflation puts paid to a lot of this paper profit. With PPI, because of the profit motive, good quality hospitals, clinics, schools, roads and houses are being and have been built within budget and on time, whereas many state/public sector managed projects so beloved of the Tribune/Marxism Today (is it still being published) reading and leaning Grauniadistas are more often rubbish jobs completed years too late at a cost many times over estimate and are obsolete even before completion.
"Osborne appeared on TV today, dressed in his now customary fluorescent building-site jacket, as if to suggest that even if it took financial chicanery and robbing the poor, Britain would soon be working again. "I think the public is behind what the government is doing," he said. He didn't sound that convincing."
Well ......do people think that the public is actually behind what the Government is doing?
"Osborne appeared on TV today, dressed in his now customary fluorescent building-site jacket, as if to suggest that even if it took financial chicanery and robbing the poor, Britain would soon be working again. "I think the public is behind what the government is doing," he said. He didn't sound that convincing."
Well ......do people think that the public is actually behind what the Government is doing?
mmmm... the whole current system has the clichéd appearance of rearranging the Titanic's deckchairs .. radical policies are needed, first requirement ? .. OUT OF THE EEC .. then any UK/English government can rise or fall under it's own policies .. we are 'governed' by greedy bastards and cowards, party politics is corrupt, modern politicians are professional politicians first and UK citizens (although officially we are all SUBJECTS of 'Her Ugly Majesty') and patriots second
Yeah ....... but they didn't win by a clear majority, as there wasn't quite enough toady Daily Mail readers to do so. Hence jumping into bed and fornicating with Clegg & Co.
And many of the Lib-Dem voters were incensed by Clegg's treachery - and would not have voted Lib-Dem if they had any idea that was to happen. Ha, wot a larf ....shafted by their own party politicians. Who can they trust?
But still doesn't answer the question, GH ....... do people think that the public is actually behind what the Government is doing?
Or the Lib Dems could have ignored the largest SINGLE party and gone over to the Labour traitors (13 years of shafting England)
How can people be "behind" VAT at 20% , pensions being cut,a million more on the dole ? whats the alternative ? trust the c**ts who helped put us in this mess?
I dont remember being asked if it was OK for 5 million to flood England if fact i was told if wasnt happening? and that even if it was happening it wouldnt effect wages or jobs? 82% of that nice Mr Browns 2.5 million British jobs for British workers went to NONE British workers ------------------------- so your point about the country not being behind the Tories well i dont remember the country being behind mass immigation either but we got it as the party in power wanted it --- end of.
The country wanted a vote on Europe as promised by both Brown and The Tory Knob we didnt get it
Yeah ....... but they didn't win by a clear majority, as there wasn't quite enough toady Daily Mail readers to do so. Hence jumping into bed and fornicating with Clegg & Co.
And many of the Lib-Dem voters were incensed by Clegg's treachery - and would not have voted Lib-Dem if they had any idea that was to happen. Ha, wot a larf ....shafted by their own party politicians. Who can they trust?
But still doesn't answer the question, GH ....... do people think that the public is actually behind what the Government is doing?
we are all still well fed and have a roof over our collective heads (mostly), MOST PEOPLE don't give a fig about politics/backing the government, they just go along to get along ... i suspect that it will take real hardship, starvation, no petrol, total unemployment to shake the English population out of it's collective lethargy .. and many would say .. why not let sleeping dogs lie, don't rock the boat and all that stuff
Or the Lib Dems could have ignored the largest SINGLE party and gone over to the Labour traitors (13 years of shafting England)
How can people be "behind" VAT at 20% , pensions being cut,a million more on the dole ? whats the alternative ? trust the c**ts who helped put us in this mess?
I dont remember being asked if it was OK for 5 million to flood England if fact i was told if wasnt happening? and that even if it was happening it wouldnt effect wages or jobs? 82% of that nice Mr Browns 2.5 million British jobs for British workers went to NONE British workers ------------------------- so your point about the country not being behind the Tories well i dont remember the country being behind mass immigation either but we got it as the party in power wanted it --- end of.
The country wanted a vote on Europe as promised by both Brown and The Tory Knob we didnt get it
much good stuff here ... voting is a waste of time, the bankers, wankers and skankers who run this country will do what they please whatever happens in the ballot booth .. all politicians nowadays are puppets of international big business .
Would it possible for each country in the world just press a reset button and by that I mean look at the finances of each country say 4 years ago and do a system restore? At the end of the day its all about numbers and printing notes. I do have this niggling feeling though that this would be nigh impossible.
I've wondered that. Or what would be wrong with declaring all of those toxic financial instruments null and void?
as much as the Italian ex MP Bellaskoni(sic) was a knob and the Greek PM seemed to have lost the plot they were democratically elected---they were booted out because the EU banking system wanted em out. That should set alarms bells ringing---not sure why it hasnt.
They want full economic control over each countrys budget (the EU) in France and Germany they have been told that "tough choices will have to be made" do we want the EU to FULLY control the setting of the UKs budget ? i mean their track record on anything money wise stinks the World up and has for decades.
as much as the Italian ex MP Bellaskoni(sic) was a knob and the Greek PM seemed to have lost the plot they were democratically elected---they were booted out because the EU banking system wanted em out. That should set alarms bells ringing---not sure why it hasnt.
They want full economic control over each countrys budget (the EU) in France and Germany they have been told that "tough choices will have to be made" do we want the EU to FULLY control the setting of the UKs budget ? i mean their track record on anything money wise stinks the World up and has for decades.
the butch germany and it's bitch france have finally wed and got what they have been individually and collectively fighting and plotting for over the past 1,000 years .. a European Empire ... Charlemagne rules again and he did it not by the sword but by the banknote .. (and YES, I know that 'Germany' as one geopolitical entity has been united only since the mid nineteenth century)
There is always a tipping point - even if you are unemployed you can have a decent home, eat (not necessarly healthily but you don't care), have a fridge, washing machine and watch the X Factor so that tipping point is harder to get to, but it is there. There are some really greedy so and sos that ought to be worried about how things are going but seem intent on grabbing more and more of whats there, including the crumbs, and that attitude means the tipping point may some day be reached.
much good stuff here ... voting is a waste of time, the bankers, wankers and skankers who run this country will do what they please whatever happens in the ballot booth .. all politicians nowadays are puppets of international big business .
Unfortunately it has come to this ...... or has it always been like this?!
British history suggests that it has, much of the time. Same old meat, different gravy.
There is always a tipping point - even if you are unemployed you can have a decent home, eat (not necessarly healthily but you don't care), have a fridge, washing machine and watch the X Factor so that tipping point is harder to get to, but it is there. There are some really greedy so and sos that ought to be worried about how things are going but seem intent on grabbing more and more of whats there, including the crumbs, and that attitude means the tipping point may some day be reached.
much good stuff here ... voting is a waste of time, the bankers, wankers and skankers who run this country will do what they please whatever happens in the ballot booth .. all politicians nowadays are puppets of international big business .
Unfortunately it has come to this ...... or has it always been like this?!
British history suggests that it has, much of the time. Same old meat, different gravy.
Aristotle on democracy ... 'An interesting stepping stone on the path to anarchy' .. I supposed the thing is nowadays we are aware we are getting ripped off .. previous generations never had this luxury .. the Empire, beating the fuzzy wuzzies, relieving Mafeking and being 'the world's workshop' staved off political unrest .. is it time for a radical change? .. are there better ways of organising society ? .. are we all doomed ? .. answers on a p/card to ...........................
Would it possible for each country in the world just press a reset button and by that I mean look at the finances of each country say 4 years ago and do a system restore? At the end of the day its all about numbers and printing notes. I do have this niggling feeling though that this would be nigh impossible.
That's an excellent and interesting point. In 98-99 I worked for a media analyst company, and read huge numbers of articles from a myriad of sources. The hyperbole of internet gurus was laughable, they thought and printed innumerable articles on how productivity gains were infinite on the back of the internet, and the economy would only grow. On the sober side of the argument were traditional economists who were alarmed that for all of Clinton's second term expenditure per capita was higher than GDP per capita. Then the Asian markets collapsed, but LTCM's hedge fund losses were bailed, and off it went again. 2-3 years later Enron and WorldCom collapsed but Bush made MASSIVE tax cuts for the rich and flooded liquidity into the markets
By 2008, for around 12 years the US economy borrowed more than it produced. Simply in answer to your question no it would not work, debt has to be repaid, and where there's a bubble deleveraging creates more debt than value in an economy. By 2007 the derivatives market was huge. Mortgage securitisation was one complete lie. Maybe markets might have survived for a few years longer but the reckoning of the bubble wasn't a few companies now, but a whole Super-Power economy which Japan, Germany, UK, China, and France had bought shit from; and all of them had big debt problems already. So No you couldn't, they'd have had to take the market losses in 98-99 in SE Asia and Russia. There is an economic cycle for a reason.
We are going to hell in a hand cart. I detest the Tory government and everything they stand for and they are only their to line their own pockets but the trouble is the opposition are inept. I'm a labour man through and through but I wouldn't trust the labour leader to run a bath properly. As for that two faced lier Clegg - well words can't describe the contempt I have for him .
We're all Doomed!!
Well we've got a Labour Government in Australia and they've managed to turn a 20 billion inherited surplus into a 37 billion deficit in the four years since they gained power. This on the back of the biggest mining boom in our history and the intruduction of two huge new taxes. Truth of the matter is, polititions of all persuations are out to line their own pockets and protect their massive pensions. They are in bed with the Banks and financial institutions who in turn fund their political campaigns. Your average housewife could control the budget better than these fools.
OZ was destroyed by Howards Years of lining the pockets of the rich and not looking after the people. Thank goodness we had a Labor Govt in when the GFC hit, otherwise we would be lining up with the Greeks for a hand out. At last we have a Govt in OZ willing to tax the big boys.,we have been very sheltered from the GFC thanks to Labour policies.......and the Chinese.
We are going to hell in a hand cart. I detest the Tory government and everything they stand for and they are only their to line their own pockets but the trouble is the opposition are inept. I'm a labour man through and through but I wouldn't trust the labour leader to run a bath properly. As for that two faced lier Clegg - well words can't describe the contempt I have for him .
We're all Doomed!!
Well we've got a Labour Government in Australia and they've managed to turn a 20 billion inherited surplus into a 37 billion deficit in the four years since they gained power. This on the back of the biggest mining boom in our history and the intruduction of two huge new taxes. Truth of the matter is, polititions of all persuations are out to line their own pockets and protect their massive pensions. They are in bed with the Banks and financial institutions who in turn fund their political campaigns. Your average housewife could control the budget better than these fools.
OZ was destroyed by Howards Years of lining the pockets of the rich and not looking after the people. Thank goodness we had a Labor Govt in when the GFC hit, otherwise we would be lining up with the Greeks for a hand out. At last we have a Govt in OZ willing to tax the big boys.,we have been very sheltered from the GFC thanks to Labour policies.......and the Chinese.
I take it you don't live on the Gold or Sunshine Coast's? Well I agree with the last bit, we were sheltered from the GFC by the Chinese, but also the juicy surplus handed to them by Howard. If you think this Government is looking after the people, you should take a trip up to the Sunshine Coast. Businesses closing down all over the place, houses not selling despite being reduced by 30%, no jobs, every day I hear of another family breaking up. Life in the major city's is still fine if you are lucky enough to have a good job, however it's a completely different story in parts of regional Australia. The mining Tax, a nice idea at completely the wrong time, four years too late. All it has served to do is shoot the goose that laid the golden egg. Confidence was almost immediately destroyed in our stock market which has underperformed all other developed markets woefully since the mining tax was first mention in May 2010. Foreign investors (30% of our market) got out as quickly as they could. As if that didn't cause enough damage, they then hammer us with the biggest carbon tax in the world. Check out the share price of Bluescope Steel since that was announced. These companies are huge employers and many of those jobs will now shift overseas. For me and my family, life was bliss under Howard, the last four years under this mob have been worse than hell and according to the polls 70% of Australians agree with me. Minority governments of any persuasion do not work.
I live in Perth. Theer's nothing wrong with taking some petty cash from Mining Companies that are making a AUS$ 7 billion profit each year. Likewise, the carbon tax ends up being 'free' to the taxpayer. Any Company taking a minor hit now will recover. Australia, via Labour, are leading the way with their foresight. Abbott, a disgrace of a man and politicain, couldn't get in when Labour were rock bottom a couple of years ago. The UK could do worse than look at the template used by the Australian Labour Governemnt during the last GFC......it worked and was a magnificent and much undervalued, saving many, many jobs.
The Sunshine Coast boomed out of sight and was always going to have a bubble
I live in Perth. Theer's nothing wrong with taking some petty cash from Mining Companies that are making a AUS$ 7 billion profit each year. Likewise, the carbon tax ends up being 'free' to the taxpayer. Any Company taking a minor hit now will recover. Australia, via Labour, are leading the way with their foresight. Abbott, a disgrace of a man and politicain, couldn't get in when Labour were rock bottom a couple of years ago. The UK could do worse than look at the template used by the Australian Labour Governemnt during the last GFC......it worked and was a magnificent and much undervalued, saving many, many jobs.
The Sunshine Coast boomed out of sight and was always going to have a bubble
I would agree with most of that, the Mining Tax was an absolute necessity; the resources boom is totally distorting the economy in the mining states and putting huge strain on infrastructure in regional areas.
Go talk to anyone living in a mining region who does not work in the mining industry and ask them what they think of the effect of mining, the results of the miners’ dominance skews everything in the wider economy.
The Howard/Costello years may have been prosperous – built on the back of the structural changes to the economy made by Hawke/Keating (in the same way Blair profited from the economic improvement under Major) – but they pissed the boom times up against the wall and left a relatively small surplus in place.
Rather than invest in serious national infrastructure, what did they do? Give out dopey “Baby Bonuses” to everyone in a frenzy of middle-class welfare that was an embarrassment to the Liberal tradition of self-support, most serious Liberals I know were disgusted with the way they handled the economy in their last years in power.
The miners squealed like pigs about the tax and unbelievably lots of Australians supported them! Ha! How hilarious to see working class people support BHP and Rio Tinto (owned by the Brits and Chinese) making billions from Australian resources and paying no more tax than they had in the 1990’s because of the out-dated taxation rates that were in place.
Via my work over the last couple of years I have got to know several very high profile MP’s in the Liberal Party – and despite being a lifelong Labour man myself – have to say that they have all been pretty decent people but they have one interesting thing in common – they all think Tony Abbott is a ++++ of the highest order and an embarrassment to their party.
I am sorry that QA has been through a tough time these last few years but it is somewhat strange to lay the blame for his woes at the feet of the Labour government which took control in November 2007, there was the little matter of the GFC in September 2008 which was something of a game changer in terms of the global economy.
In terms of the property sector, all we are seeing is the inevitable deflating of a bubble, anyone who thought that the housing boom which started in around 2002 and just kept going was going to last forever was always going to be mistaken. People like Steve Keen from the UWS have been predicting this for ages.
Most people on regular incomes in SE QLD are going to be looking at a maximum mortgage of around A$350,000 to A$400,000 – after that it just starts to get too much for people to be able to afford, even with low interest rates.
With prices of ordinary 4+2 homes creeping up to $500,000-$550,000+ - and that’s for a very basic place in an ordinary suburb – it is inevitable that prices will have to come down to meet the financial realities of the market, that would have happened no matter which party was in charge. That’s the way markets work, they go up AND down over time.
Further, the idea that the new Mineral Resources Rental Tax will “shoot the goose that laid the golden egg” is, I am bound to say, absolute and complete bollocks of the highest order.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
There are currently a mind boggling A$80 billion of projects in the mining sector due for commencement over the next 3 years, that is an extraordinary amount of money invested in the sector from global and local miners, the idea that they are going to walk away from the industry because of a relatively minor raise in their tax rate is laughable and absurd.
Similarly, the idea that Bluescope Steel or others are going to leave the country because of the Carbon Tax is yet more Abbott-inspired bullshit, that company are being hammered by the high price of the Aussie $ and the fact that competition is heating up from Chinese and Korean producers, the Carbon Tax is only a fraction of the problems they are facing.
As for the comment about “minority governments of any persuasion do not work” well, that’s highly debatable since the current government has passed nearly 160 bills since parliament was formed and has not had any major legislation defeated in the parliament apart from the Malaysia asylum seeker deal.
QA is obviously a dyed-in-the-wool Liberal and seems to think that life here would have been permanent bliss if only Howard had stayed in power forever - perhaps what he really means is that “minority governments of any persuasion do not work” when they are led by a party of which he does not approve.
I wonder if he would be saying the same thing if Abbott had won the support of the independents to form a minority government in October 2010? I doubt it somehow.
I would be genuiely interested from people who work in the city, as to how things are going, the old man had a day off yesterday to meet up with people he used to work with in the stock exchange, I asked him how is old mates were whether they are still earning bundles.His reply, nothing seems to change in the city boozers and restaurants still heaving, money being spent in bucket loads.So is it a case of the rich unaffected and everyone else taking the hit.
It's interesting how one's political view is very often skewed according to their own personal circumstances. Labour managed to just avoid defeat at the last election due to the fact that in the southern states, house prices were still holding up well, people were still feeling pretty good. That has now changed, suddenly people across the nation are worried about the decline in their major asset, their superannuation disappearing, and industries (outside of mining) struggling. My neighbour, a staunch labour supporter with a property portfolio in Brisbane, is suddenly highly critical of the party. My guess is that this will be reflected across the nation come the next election. There is no need for people to be struggling in this country. We are closely aligned to the fastest growing region in the world, but it's highly likely that China will now increasingly import their resources from places like Africa rather than Australia. For the record, I'm pretty A-political. I'm no fan of Tony Abbott. But one thing I do know is that I have never prospered under a Labour government either in the UK or Australia. Life was bad enough under Blair, hence the reason I moved the family to Australia, where for a few years under Howard, I thought I'd died and gone to heaven. People were happy, prices were reasonable and everything was ticking along just fine. That's all changed and the mood of the people has changed to one of anger. I ask the question. why are record numbers of Brits returning to the UK where the economy is in a far worse state than Australia?
Comments
"Osborne appeared on TV today, dressed in his now
customary fluorescent building-site jacket, as if to suggest that even
if it took financial chicanery and robbing the poor, Britain would soon
be working again. "I think the public is behind what the government is
doing," he said. He didn't sound that convincing."
Well ......do people think that the public is actually behind what the Government is doing?
And many of the Lib-Dem voters were incensed by Clegg's treachery - and would not have voted Lib-Dem if they had any idea that was to happen. Ha, wot a larf ....shafted by their own party politicians. Who can they trust?
But still doesn't answer the question, GH ....... do people think that the public is actually behind what the Government is doing?
British history suggests that it has, much of the time.
Same old meat, different gravy.
I never tip ;0)
OZ was destroyed by Howards Years of lining the pockets of the rich and not looking after the people. Thank goodness we had a Labor Govt in when the GFC hit, otherwise we would be lining up with the Greeks for a hand out. At last we have a Govt in OZ willing to tax the big boys.,we have been very sheltered from the GFC thanks to Labour policies.......and the Chinese.
The mining Tax, a nice idea at completely the wrong time, four years too late. All it has served to do is shoot the goose that laid the golden egg. Confidence was almost immediately destroyed in our stock market which has underperformed all other developed markets woefully since the mining tax was first mention in May 2010. Foreign investors (30% of our market) got out as quickly as they could. As if that didn't cause enough damage, they then hammer us with the biggest carbon tax in the world. Check out the share price of Bluescope Steel since that was announced. These companies are huge employers and many of those jobs will now shift overseas. For me and my family, life was bliss under Howard, the last four years under this mob have been worse than hell and according to the polls 70% of Australians agree with me. Minority governments of any persuasion do not work.
I live in Perth. Theer's nothing wrong with taking some petty cash from Mining Companies that are making a AUS$ 7 billion profit each year. Likewise, the carbon tax ends up being 'free' to the taxpayer. Any Company taking a minor hit now will recover. Australia, via Labour, are leading the way with their foresight. Abbott, a disgrace of a man and politicain, couldn't get in when Labour were rock bottom a couple of years ago. The UK could do worse than look at the template used by the Australian Labour Governemnt during the last GFC......it worked and was a magnificent and much undervalued, saving many, many jobs.
The Sunshine Coast boomed out of sight and was always going to have a bubble
I would agree with most of that, the Mining Tax was an absolute necessity; the resources boom is totally distorting the economy in the mining states and putting huge strain on infrastructure in regional areas.
Go talk to anyone living in a mining region who does not work in the mining industry and ask them what they think of the effect of mining, the results of the miners’ dominance skews everything in the wider economy.
The Howard/Costello years may have been prosperous – built on the back of the structural changes to the economy made by Hawke/Keating (in the same way Blair profited from the economic improvement under Major) – but they pissed the boom times up against the wall and left a relatively small surplus in place.
Rather than invest in serious national infrastructure, what did they do? Give out dopey “Baby Bonuses” to everyone in a frenzy of middle-class welfare that was an embarrassment to the Liberal tradition of self-support, most serious Liberals I know were disgusted with the way they handled the economy in their last years in power.
The miners squealed like pigs about the tax and unbelievably lots of Australians supported them! Ha! How hilarious to see working class people support BHP and Rio Tinto (owned by the Brits and Chinese) making billions from Australian resources and paying no more tax than they had in the 1990’s because of the out-dated taxation rates that were in place.
Via my work over the last couple of years I have got to know several very high profile MP’s in the Liberal Party – and despite being a lifelong Labour man myself – have to say that they have all been pretty decent people but they have one interesting thing in common – they all think Tony Abbott is a ++++ of the highest order and an embarrassment to their party.
I am sorry that QA has been through a tough time these last few years but it is somewhat strange to lay the blame for his woes at the feet of the Labour government which took control in November 2007, there was the little matter of the GFC in September 2008 which was something of a game changer in terms of the global economy.
In terms of the property sector, all we are seeing is the inevitable deflating of a bubble, anyone who thought that the housing boom which started in around 2002 and just kept going was going to last forever was always going to be mistaken. People like Steve Keen from the UWS have been predicting this for ages.
Most people on regular incomes in SE QLD are going to be looking at a maximum mortgage of around A$350,000 to A$400,000 – after that it just starts to get too much for people to be able to afford, even with low interest rates.
With prices of ordinary 4+2 homes creeping up to $500,000-$550,000+ - and that’s for a very basic place in an ordinary suburb – it is inevitable that prices will have to come down to meet the financial realities of the market, that would have happened no matter which party was in charge. That’s the way markets work, they go up AND down over time.
Further, the idea that the new Mineral Resources Rental Tax will “shoot the goose that laid the golden egg” is, I am bound to say, absolute and complete bollocks of the highest order.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
There are currently a mind boggling A$80 billion of projects in the mining sector due for commencement over the next 3 years, that is an extraordinary amount of money invested in the sector from global and local miners, the idea that they are going to walk away from the industry because of a relatively minor raise in their tax rate is laughable and absurd.
Similarly, the idea that Bluescope Steel or others are going to leave the country because of the Carbon Tax is yet more Abbott-inspired bullshit, that company are being hammered by the high price of the Aussie $ and the fact that competition is heating up from Chinese and Korean producers, the Carbon Tax is only a fraction of the problems they are facing.
As for the comment about “minority governments of any persuasion do not work” well, that’s highly debatable since the current government has passed nearly 160 bills since parliament was formed and has not had any major legislation defeated in the parliament apart from the Malaysia asylum seeker deal.
QA is obviously a dyed-in-the-wool Liberal and seems to think that life here would have been permanent bliss if only Howard had stayed in power forever - perhaps what he really means is that “minority governments of any persuasion do not work” when they are led by a party of which he does not approve.
I wonder if he would be saying the same thing if Abbott had won the support of the independents to form a minority government in October 2010? I doubt it somehow.
For the record, I'm pretty A-political. I'm no fan of Tony Abbott. But one thing I do know is that I have never prospered under a Labour government either in the UK or Australia. Life was bad enough under Blair, hence the reason I moved the family to Australia, where for a few years under Howard, I thought I'd died and gone to heaven. People were happy, prices were reasonable and everything was ticking along just fine. That's all changed and the mood of the people has changed to one of anger. I ask the question. why are record numbers of Brits returning to the UK where the economy is in a far worse state than Australia?