The kid who got shot

Chris_from_Sidcup

Whilst i appreciate it's not exactly a great way to die and obviously so young as well, can we really be expected to have sympathy. The latest kid was a convicted burglar, was on a tag, ran in a gang, and graffited his tag all over the place so he was no angel. These kids all think they're big time gangsters and who's to say he wouldn't have been the killer himself a few years down the line. But the thing that gets me the most is one gang member wrote 'we'll miss you, heaven has another fallen soldier'. SOLDIER! Kids running around with guns aren't f*cking soldiers. They should send some of these real tough kids away with the army then see what soldiers do. Rant over!

ThreadKiller

you said it a few times there......he was just a kid.

Ledge

yeah but the mum will still say "he was a good boy who went to church"

Stu_of_Kunming

[cite]Posted By: Ledge Knows[/cite]yeah but the mum will still say "he was a good boy who went to church"

She actually did come out and say 'he was such a nice boy' I can't deny my first reaction to this was 'apart from when he's out committing crime, right'.

I would be rather harsh of me to say that I have no sympathy for the kid and he had it coming because that's just not the case, however surely he must have known what he was getting involved in living the life he did.

Ledge

listen people don't get shot for no reason or very very rarely - they are either involved in something or it is retribution for something they have done.

i have no doubt themothers of these little angels see their kids at home who are very good kids indoors. You will normally find caribbean background families the mothers rule the house with an iron fist and the kids are as good as gold at home. Get the little fuckers out side and a minority of them are no angels.

the saddest thing about these killings are they are NEVER going to stop. These black on black killings are getting totally out of hand - most of them are done over god damn trivial things like laughing at someone and dissing them or direspecting my family.

AFKABartram

lets not get ahead of ourselves here.

I reckon there must be a fair few people on here like me who did things at 15-16 that they are not proud of, if not ashamed of, yet left it behind to become what they are now.
Granted, some go further down the wrong route, but for most its a case of falling in with the wrong crowd at a vulnerable age, which they later learn from and leave behind.

No one deserves to die at 15.

LenGlover

[cite]Posted By: AFKA Bartram[/cite]lets not get ahead of ourselves here.

I reckon there must be a fair few people on here like me who did things at 15-16 that they are not proud of, if not ashamed of, yet left it behind to become what they are now.
Granted, some go further down the wrong route, but for most its a case of falling in with the wrong crowd at a vulnerable age, which they later learn from and leave behind.

No one deserves to die at 15.

Well said.

Henry Irving

Well put AFKA. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" as the Rabbi said.

Off_it

[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]Well put AFKA. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" as the Rabbi said.

Just don't mention Jehova!

Henry Irving

[quote][cite]Posted By: Off_it[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]Well put AFKA. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" as the Rabbi said.[/quote]

Just don't mention Jehova![/quote]

That was his Dad

3blokes

I think the tragedy is that these young kids are getting access to guns and that a culture has developed in their lives that somehow it is ok to go and kill someone over minor disagreements and that misused issue of 'disrespect'
It seems to me that in parts of our society we have lost the notion of what it means to be an adult and what it should mean to be a child.
Adults should lead and direct their children. That is what being a parent means. It is a huge responsibility but if you have kids then that is what you take on. Parents should manage their children in all ways, they are less emotionally mature and less experienced than their parents, but how often now do you hear kids ruling their parents because they never can seem to be able to say no to them?
It seems to me that the distinction between adult and child has blurred in a worrying way.
But what do we show them on tv for example?
Jade Goody. The epitome of the adult who conducts herself like a child. Not just picking on her, but she is a good example.
Unless we start to get a grip on our kids, and I mean those who are clearly out of control, (not the many who are great and well on their way to being good adults), we are going to have more misery, and more pointless deaths like we have been seeing.
It's not easy being a parent, and we all get stuff wrong, but it is time we really started to address this as the major issue in this country.

Right. Rant over. I think we should go 442 against the hammers :)

Ledge

I agree AFKA - but I knew where the line was because if I crossed it I was more fearful of getting a right hander off the old man then some kid.

That is the difference nowadays these kids don't give a fuck about what their parenss think.

Ketman

I blame the parents ! Seriously, though surely it all down to discipline surely? Not so long ago you played up at home you got a whack from your parents. You played up at school the teacher/headmaster gave you a bloody good whack with a slipper or the cane. Don't seem to remember kids wielding guns at school & the only gangs were those when rival schools met up in fields for a tear up with their fists. Now the kids have the power, they goad their parents & teachers knowing that they cannot get punished & if they do they scream for social services FFS. I am sorry that a kid has died, but if it is proved later that he owned a gun threatened or had shot at someone (You don't get shot for no reason), have very little sympathy for anyone who yields a gun & ends up getting shot (Disclaimer - Not to say any of these boys owned a gun).

razil

Bring back national service )of some kind) - I am fairly left wing but this has to be the only way to sort out these social problems.

ThreadKiller

freakanomics.it has all the answers.

Rothko

[cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]Bring back national service )of some kind) - I am fairly left wing but this has to be the only way to sort out these social problems.

So they learn to be better shots?

Ledge

or shoot the old septics in friendly fire incidents

Henry Irving

I think that like in most generations 95% of teenage kids, including black kids in inner cities are OK most of the time even if they get drunk, stoned, lary and cocky and act up. And as I said before all generations look back thirty years to the good old days. The big difference is the easier access to guns things that only major criminals were likely to have a few years back.

I do think that we as a culture pay too much attention to bling. lapels, non-celebrities and worship material sucess over all things and this leads people to become more and more desperate to get money and "respect" however they can be that with a gun or by going on a trash "reality" show.

Also while I don't think you can blame pop music for everything there is an element of glorifying gun culture in US hip hip/rap music. That's not to say that black and white kids weren't violent in the past but maybe a bit more love and unity roots music would be better.

razil

yeah if nothing else, but no it doesnt have to be army service..

razil

there shouldnt be no go areas for the police, that really isnt fair on anyone..

Rothko

Wouldn't even say it's US hip hop culture, the gun culture is ingrained into the Grime/UK Hip hop scene, if hearing some of the stuff coming out of London's finest sink estates at the moment.

Sco

There is also shed loads more money around these days and our throw away, don't give a s**t, what's next to buy culture is bulls**t. I'm not saying you have to be poor to be happy as that clearly isn't the case, but more and more we are seeing that material culture is unsatisfying. Status is all these days and when you care little about anything, how do you have an effect? By destruction. Ramp that up a few notches and where do you get to ultimately - things like this. I am sure I could put this better but I have a belter of a hangover, but self, self, self is the modern mantra I fear. Do people that go down this route really want thier (and our) world to be such a s**tty place?

We can't go back now, but I hope we can find some better way of going forward.

Off_it

Some good points here - but man, isn't all of this a bit heavy for a friday? (Although I guess that's what happens when we haven't got a game to look forward to/discuss - so I blame Charlton!!!)

Can't someone start a thread about going to the pub lunchtime or something???

InspectorSands

[cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]Bring back national service )of some kind) - I am fairly left wing but this has to be the only way to sort out these social problems.

National service needn't be military - a year/ six months helping out in your community?

Ledge

I would love to go to the pub lunchtime -

but got the bike. i blame ken livingstone for forcing me off public transport -

Off_it

[cite]Posted By: Ledge Knows[/cite]I would love to go to the pub lunchtime -

but got the bike. i blame ken livingstone for forcing me off public transport -

Lol - I like that!
(nothing to do with the knowledge tho, eh?)

Ledge

that's his fault as well -

SantaClaus

The reasons for / solutions to this problem are obvious to most. The great problem is that gun culture and youth criminality are disproportionaly Black issues so seriously tackling them will inevitably leave politicians/police open to charges of racism. Personally i can't see any politician with the bollox to grasp this nettle so i expect that these kind of cases will become more common and raise fewer and fewer headlines over time. All in all very depressing.

S.

Off_it

[cite]Posted By: Ledge Knows[/cite]that's his fault as well -

Global warming?
Charltons lack of form this season?
My train being late this morning?
My missus going potty with the credit card?

All down to Red Ken. The sooner we kick him out the better!
)

Ketman

[cite]Posted By: Off_it[/cite]

[cite]Posted By: Ledge Knows[/cite]that's his fault as well -

Global warming?
Charltons lack of form this season?
My train being late this morning?
My missus going potty with the credit card?

All down to Red Ken. The sooner we kick him out the better!
)

Surely this is Andrew Mills responsibility ?

Henry Irving

I saw Ken on Wednesday. I was working at the GLA and he was having a photoshoot with some Chinese dignataries (no sigh of ZZ).

I was going to go up to him and say "oi, Livingstone! I respect your attempts to improve transport in London but if you ever come down the Valley and start supporting the other team then I'd say Livingstone NO!"

However I didn't.