No, never applied for legal aid but part of my job is working with Legal Aid Solicitors so I know you can get legal aid for some employment cases as well as for family, housing and crime . Last one I saw an individual won an unfair dismissal claim v a major supermarket chain. Something that person would have had no chance of without legal aid.
Is the system perfect? No, but there needs to be some state funding to counter the very thing you are complaining about.
Rules also changed on ETs a few years back to make it harder for individuals to bring cases without any substance as too many (in the eyes of the govt) were applying when they had no case in the hope of getting a freebie.
It would send the pc police on this forum into a cardigan ripping frenzy if I was to point you towards the statistics for unsuccessful wrongful dismissal claim based on race discrimination and the costs to the public purse. I have seen no evidence that such cases (which are usually accomanied by a personal injury claim for stress) clog up the Court system and show no sign whatsover of slowing down or being stopped. In fact I would wager my dog that in the alst 5 years civil cases have increased many fold.
In my opinion, cases of race discrimination almost always get a 'hearing' in some court or another, no matter how frivoulous or vexatious they are. Such is the claomour for justice to be seen to be done. I have a unchallengable right to question the legitimacy of making such claims and the Court being powerless to award costs to stop this abuse and explotation of our legal system.
I do of course reserve my position on Mr McCameron.
Reading the report MM will have to name names to substaniate his claim -- if Scally did throw a wobley in the office at him --reckon MM is a good foot and 5 stone bigger ...know who my money would be on.
Reading it -- it does look like he has been victimised and if he can prove it with support from the white players(as he calls them ) then that is good.
However can you imagine the uproar if the players he states gave him the information deny such things ...then we do have a major storm -as he will have to bear the costs.
Reading the report MM will have to name names to substaniate his claim -- if Scally did throw a wobley in the office at him --reckon MM is a good foot and 5 stone bigger ...know who my money would be on.
Reading it -- it does look like he has been victimised and if he can prove it with support from the white players(as he calls them ) then that is good.
However can you imagine the uproar if the players he states gave him the information deny such things ...then we do have a major storm -as he will have to bear the costs.
It was Hessanthaler that 'threw the wobbly' not Scally.
Ummm, if he's released three seasons after signing a three year contract, how can that be unfair dismissal? It's just his contract expiring, surely?
Terminating a fixed term contract constitutes a dismissal in employment law even if the fixed term has expired and therefore it follows that an employee can bring a claim for unfair dismissal.
Is that right? Surely if proper notice is given he has no statutory rights at all. He was given a dismissal letter which i understand is deemed to be suffiecient notice and the real issue is not one of wrongful dismissal through inadequate notice.
I can't believe a race card argument is being played out two weeks before terry goes to trial. What a coincidence eh.
I'll give you an example. If a company employs 4 people at the same time on one year fixed contracts and when it comes to the end of the year they renew 3 of them and the person whose contract is not renewed is black and the other three are white, he could have grounds to claim unfair dismissal on grounds of racial discrimination. He would have to prove that the reason his contract was not renewed was because of his race.
What if the company renewed just one contract, the black person, & terminated the 3 white people. Would they also have a case?
Ummm, if he's released three seasons after signing a three year contract, how can that be unfair dismissal? It's just his contract expiring, surely?
Terminating a fixed term contract constitutes a dismissal in employment law even if the fixed term has expired and therefore it follows that an employee can bring a claim for unfair dismissal.
Is that right? Surely if proper notice is given he has no statutory rights at all. He was given a dismissal letter which i understand is deemed to be suffiecient notice and the real issue is not one of wrongful dismissal through inadequate notice.
I can't believe a race card argument is being played out two weeks before terry goes to trial. What a coincidence eh.
I'll give you an example. If a company employs 4 people at the same time on one year fixed contracts and when it comes to the end of the year they renew 3 of them and the person whose contract is not renewed is black and the other three are white, he could have grounds to claim unfair dismissal on grounds of racial discrimination. He would have to prove that the reason his contract was not renewed was because of his race.
What if the company renewed just one contract, the black person, & terminated the 3 white people. Would they also have a case?
Surely in both scenarios it should turn on the ability of the employer to demonstrate and justify the commercial case firstly for reducing the workforce and secondly choosing the person (s) he /she has.
It would send the pc police on this forum into a cardigan ripping frenzy if I was to point you towards the statistics for unsuccessful wrongful dismissal claim based on race discrimination and the costs to the public purse. I have seen no evidence that such cases (which are usually accomanied by a personal injury claim for stress) clog up the Court system and show no sign whatsover of slowing down or being stopped. In fact I would wager my dog that in the alst 5 years civil cases have increased many fold.
In my opinion, cases of race discrimination almost always get a 'hearing' in some court or another, no matter how frivoulous or vexatious they are. Such is the claomour for justice to be seen to be done. I have a unchallengable right to question the legitimacy of making such claims and the Court being powerless to award costs to stop this abuse and explotation of our legal system.
I do of course reserve my position on Mr McCameron.
oH, a PC police and a cardigan reference in the same post. Cliche or what?
Funny how you have all those stats to hand and seem to post only on race related issues.
I said I could point you to stats, not that I had them to hand. Again your making an allegation that I have an agenda, based on assumptions and ignorance, you got all prammy and menstruel last night when you thought I was patronising you. Perhaps, we can draw a line under this now.
I heard an inteview with Matt Lawrence who was a fairly senior player treated pretty badly, training with the kids after an injury. His contract wasn't renewed, but none of this was racially motivated. I think Scally is either quite a hateful character or very business focussed depending on your world view.
I heard an inteview with Matt Lawrence who was a fairly senior player treated pretty badly, training with the kids after an injury. His contract wasn't renewed, but none of this was racially motivated. I think Scally is either quite a hateful character or very business focussed depending on your world view.
A black footballer is suing his former club after claiming he was dismissed after being racially discriminated against. Mark McCammon, 33, alleges that he and other black players at League Two club Gillingham were treated differently from white footballers. The 6ft 2in striker claims he was ordered to come into the ground amid 'treacherous', snowy driving conditions while some white players were told they were not required. McCammon has also alleged that the Kent club tried to 'frustrate him out' by refusing to pay private medical bills to help him regain his fitness following injury. He said was instead offered the choice of undergoing the same operation on the NHS rather than privately, a move he described as 'completely out of character' for a Football League club. By comparison, the former Charlton, Swindon, Millwall and Brighton player said that a white player was flown to Dubai for treatment by an eminent physiotherapist at the club’s expense. He claims that after leaving the club, Gillingham 'were effectively campaigning covertly against me' by trying to sabotage his career. Strong interest was shown following his departure by 11 clubs but talks with all collapsed, often at a late stage, he said. 'It soon became known that the chairman had been interfering,' McCammon said in his witness statement. 'My agent was told by other agents that the job he was doing was an impossible one as they were aware that GFC were effectively campaigning covertly against me with the intention of sabotaging my career.' Barbados international McCammon signed a three-year contract with Gillingham in 2008 on £2,500 a week and was the club's highest paid player. The first campaign went well but by his third season with the club, they had been relegated to League Two and he suffered an injury that needed an operation. In his statement, McCammon said: 'The way the chairman approached the matter was that he saw my injury as a way to get rid of any financial obligations, such as my wages, he might have as a result of my contract. 'Effectively, he preferred to offer me some money to get out of the contract rather than have to pay for my injury and help me back to recuperation. 'There was at least eight months left on my contract. 'It was essential that I completed the operation as soon as possible so that I could get my fitness to the right level and start with the team again.' Instead, it is alleged, McCammon was 'stalled for as long as possible' and eventually offered money to terminate his contract. He is suing Gillingham and its chairman Paul Scally for race discrimination, breach of contract, unfair dismissal and failure of his ex-employer to pay him. The case comes at a time of concern about racism in football, particularly at the Euro 2012 championships. It also comes ahead of the trial of England star John Terry on charges of racially abusing QPR’s Anton Ferdinand. Terry denies the charges. Gillingham has said it 'wholly rejects' McCammon’s allegations. McCammon said that during his injury spell, he had to stay behind at the club for four hours longer than the other injured and non-injured players. He claimed this was on the 'strict instructions' of Mr Scally. 'Once the players had all left, I sat there watching mind-numbing daytime TV and Britain’s Got Talent,' he said. 'The process of waiting was designed to inflict maximum levels of frustration on me and it certainly had that impact. 'Sitting at the club instead of progressing with my operation was like watching paint dry.' The events which led up to McCammon’s dismissal were triggered on November 30, 2010, when south-east England had heavy snowfall. On that day, McCammon claims that he and two other black players - Josh Gowling and Curtis Weston - were told to make the four-mile drive from the house they shared to the club's medical rooms. 'One of my housemates had contacted another player who lived about two miles nearer to the club who was also due to attend the medical centre with us on that day,' McCammon's statement said. 'He was a white player who had informed us that the club physiotherapist had told him that he was not required to come in on that day because of the snow. 'There was a further player we contacted who was in the same boat - ie he needed to attend the club for physio on the same day. He lived further down in Kent in Maidstone and had a longer drive in. 'He was white and had been informed by the club staff that he also did not need to come in for the day because of the snowy conditions.' Later, McCammon said one of them received a text message threatening to dock them two weeks' wages unless they made it to the stadium by midday. When he arrived at the club, McCammon said he headed to manager Andy Hessenthaler's room to confront him about being 'racially intolerant' over the decision to order them in. He claimed that Hessenthaler reacted angrily. 'He lost his temper and flayed the contents of his table. He pushed the table over, throwing overboard the computer on it and all its other contents. 'It was the most aggressive and temperamental physical display of tantrum I had ever seen. 'The body poise in his language as he stood up to address me was a stance that stated, "How dare you talk to me". 'I was concerned he was going to attack me and I asked whether he was planning to hit me.' McCammon was subsequently ordered to attend a disciplinary hearing and later received a letter saying he was dismissed for aggressive conduct towards the manager and racism, it is claimed. After the club's demotion to League Two at the end of the 2009/10 season, Mr Scally sacked the management team and brought in Hessenthaler, who had been manager at Dover FC. During Mr Scally's initial discussions with Hessenthaler, they talked about McCammon who was 'regarded as a player who didn't have the best attitude and who had clashed with the previous manager'. Despite this, Mr Scally asked his new manager to focus on getting McCammon back playing regularly as he was the club's highest-paid player and one of its main strikers. Mr Scally's witness statement said: 'I wanted Andy and the rest of the management team to get the best out of him performance-wise as, for whatever reason, his playing record for the club and his goal ratio was poor and he appeared to be very injury-prone.' Regarding events on November 30, 2010, Mr Scally said McCammon was being aggressive, physically and verbally, after he confronted Hessenthaler in his room. The decision to dismiss McCammon was a unanimous one by all three members of the club's panel. Mr Scally said the allegation of racism by McCammon was 'maliciously made and without any merit' as a way of deflecting from the fact that he and his two black team-mates had been caught 'lying'. Mr Scally said that not to dismiss him would have sent the wrong message to the players and the management team about the type of behaviour tolerated at the club. The employment tribunal is being heard in Ashford over the next four days.
Reading the report MM will have to name names to substaniate his claim -- if Scally did throw a wobley in the office at him --reckon MM is a good foot and 5 stone bigger ...know who my money would be on.
Reading it -- it does look like he has been victimised and if he can prove it with support from the white players(as he calls them ) then that is good.
However can you imagine the uproar if the players he states gave him the information deny such things ...then we do have a major storm -as he will have to bear the costs.
It was Hessanthaler that 'threw the wobbly' not Scally.
Mr Brown Strides appeared not long after his demise and as far as I can see this thread is the only one he's posted on remotely connected to football.
I am none of the above, I have only been on here three days!!!!. I do think however that I have walked onto the set of The Villiage or the pub The Slaughtered Lamb in that film 'American Werewolf in London'.
God it is scarey if you dont tow the party line on here.
Mr Brown Strides appeared not long after his demise and as far as I can see this thread is the only one he's posted on remotely connected to football.
I am none of the above, I have only been on here three days!!!!. I do think however that I have walked onto the set of The Villiage or the pub The Slaughtered Lamb in that film 'American Werewolf in London'.
God it is scarey if you dont tow the party line on here.
Erm way too many clues that you have at least been a 'lurker' on here for many a year. Though I heartily agree about 'the party line' comment.
I can honestly say I have never posted on here before in any guise. It is incredibly worrying how closed some discusions are and how frightening some subjects are for you all. If anyone re-read this thread it is clear that I was not starting an 'agenda' but merely responding with opinion and facts and standing my corner.
Comments
Is the system perfect? No, but there needs to be some state funding to counter the very thing you are complaining about.
Rules also changed on ETs a few years back to make it harder for individuals to bring cases without any substance as too many (in the eyes of the govt) were applying when they had no case in the hope of getting a freebie.
In my opinion, cases of race discrimination almost always get a 'hearing' in some court or another, no matter how frivoulous or vexatious they are. Such is the claomour for justice to be seen to be done. I have a unchallengable right to question the legitimacy of making such claims and the Court being powerless to award costs to stop this abuse and explotation of our legal system.
I do of course reserve my position on Mr McCameron.
Reading it -- it does look like he has been victimised and if he can prove it with support from the white players(as he calls them ) then that is good.
However can you imagine the uproar if the players he states gave him the information deny such things ...then we do have a major storm -as he will have to bear the costs.
That said it's been handled appallingly and it's easy to see why it could be interpreted differently.
Funny how you have all those stats to hand and seem to post only on race related issues.
Just as well you don't have an agenda
Good question Yes lets. Since you've had to resort to silly insults like "prammy" and "menstruel" it's not really worth my effort.
Bye bye
A black footballer is suing his former club after claiming he was dismissed after being racially discriminated against.
Mark McCammon, 33, alleges that he and other black players at League Two club Gillingham were treated differently from white footballers.
The 6ft 2in striker claims he was ordered to come into the ground amid 'treacherous', snowy driving conditions while some white players were told they were not required.
McCammon has also alleged that the Kent club tried to 'frustrate him out' by refusing to pay private medical bills to help him regain his fitness following injury.
He said was instead offered the choice of undergoing the same operation on the NHS rather than privately, a move he described as 'completely out of character' for a Football League club.
By comparison, the former Charlton, Swindon, Millwall and Brighton player said that a white player was flown to Dubai for treatment by an eminent physiotherapist at the club’s expense.
He claims that after leaving the club, Gillingham 'were effectively campaigning covertly against me' by trying to sabotage his career.
Strong interest was shown following his departure by 11 clubs but talks with all collapsed, often at a late stage, he said.
'It soon became known that the chairman had been interfering,' McCammon said in his witness statement.
'My agent was told by other agents that the job he was doing was an impossible one as they were aware that GFC were effectively campaigning covertly against me with the intention of sabotaging my career.'
Barbados international McCammon signed a three-year contract with Gillingham in 2008 on £2,500 a week and was the club's highest paid player.
The first campaign went well but by his third season with the club, they had been relegated to League Two and he suffered an injury that needed an operation.
In his statement, McCammon said: 'The way the chairman approached the matter was that he saw my injury as a way to get rid of any financial obligations, such as my wages, he might have as a result of my contract.
'Effectively, he preferred to offer me some money to get out of the contract rather than have to pay for my injury and help me back to recuperation.
'There was at least eight months left on my contract.
'It was essential that I completed the operation as soon as possible so that I could get my fitness to the right level and start with the team again.'
Instead, it is alleged, McCammon was 'stalled for as long as possible' and eventually offered money to terminate his contract.
He is suing Gillingham and its chairman Paul Scally for race discrimination, breach of contract, unfair dismissal and failure of his ex-employer to pay him.
The case comes at a time of concern about racism in football, particularly at the Euro 2012 championships.
It also comes ahead of the trial of England star John Terry on charges of racially abusing QPR’s Anton Ferdinand. Terry denies the charges.
Gillingham has said it 'wholly rejects' McCammon’s allegations.
McCammon said that during his injury spell, he had to stay behind at the club for four hours longer than the other injured and non-injured players.
He claimed this was on the 'strict instructions' of Mr Scally.
'Once the players had all left, I sat there watching mind-numbing daytime TV and Britain’s Got Talent,' he said.
'The process of waiting was designed to inflict maximum levels of frustration on me and it certainly had that impact.
'Sitting at the club instead of progressing with my operation was like watching paint dry.'
The events which led up to McCammon’s dismissal were triggered on November 30, 2010, when south-east England had heavy snowfall.
On that day, McCammon claims that he and two other black players - Josh Gowling and Curtis Weston - were told to make the four-mile drive from the house they shared to the club's medical rooms.
'One of my housemates had contacted another player who lived about two miles nearer to the club who was also due to attend the medical centre with us on that day,' McCammon's statement said.
'He was a white player who had informed us that the club physiotherapist had told him that he was not required to come in on that day because of the snow.
'There was a further player we contacted who was in the same boat - ie he needed to attend the club for physio on the same day. He lived further down in Kent in Maidstone and had a longer drive in.
'He was white and had been informed by the club staff that he also did not need to come in for the day because of the snowy conditions.'
Later, McCammon said one of them received a text message threatening to dock them two weeks' wages unless they made it to the stadium by midday.
When he arrived at the club, McCammon said he headed to manager Andy Hessenthaler's room to confront him about being 'racially intolerant' over the decision to order them in.
He claimed that Hessenthaler reacted angrily.
'He lost his temper and flayed the contents of his table. He pushed the table over, throwing overboard the computer on it and all its other contents.
'It was the most aggressive and temperamental physical display of tantrum I had ever seen.
'The body poise in his language as he stood up to address me was a stance that stated, "How dare you talk to me".
'I was concerned he was going to attack me and I asked whether he was planning to hit me.'
McCammon was subsequently ordered to attend a disciplinary hearing and later received a letter saying he was dismissed for aggressive conduct towards the manager and racism, it is claimed.
After the club's demotion to League Two at the end of the 2009/10 season, Mr Scally sacked the management team and brought in Hessenthaler, who had been manager at Dover FC.
During Mr Scally's initial discussions with Hessenthaler, they talked about McCammon who was 'regarded as a player who didn't have the best attitude and who had clashed with the previous manager'.
Despite this, Mr Scally asked his new manager to focus on getting McCammon back playing regularly as he was the club's highest-paid player and one of its main strikers.
Mr Scally's witness statement said: 'I wanted Andy and the rest of the management team to get the best out of him performance-wise as, for whatever reason, his playing record for the club and his goal ratio was poor and he appeared to be very injury-prone.'
Regarding events on November 30, 2010, Mr Scally said McCammon was being aggressive, physically and verbally, after he confronted Hessenthaler in his room.
The decision to dismiss McCammon was a unanimous one by all three members of the club's panel.
Mr Scally said the allegation of racism by McCammon was 'maliciously made and without any merit' as a way of deflecting from the fact that he and his two black team-mates had been caught 'lying'.
Mr Scally said that not to dismiss him would have sent the wrong message to the players and the management team about the type of behaviour tolerated at the club.
The employment tribunal is being heard in Ashford over the next four days.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2164968/Mark-McCammon-suing-club-race-discrimination-says-offered-NHS-op-private-care.html#ixzz1yzkPeTiI
Mr Brown Strides appeared not long after his demise and as far as I can see this thread is the only one he's posted on remotely connected to football.
God it is scarey if you dont tow the party line on here.
Though I heartily agree about 'the party line' comment.