What is never mentioned is that 'THE MUSLIMS STARTED IT' by conquering Spain and part of France, after conquering and subjugating the Middle East and North Africa in the 8th century. It took the Christian Spanish almost 500 years to 'get their country back'. Later, the Ottomans imposed 'Islam' on the Balkans for hundreds of years. The history of Spain and the Balkans during these occupations consists of many many years of enslavement to Islamic rulers and Islamic ideology. To say that some Islamists are only 'violent' and politicised because of US/UK/European exploitation is simply wrong. Islam is and always has been a warrior type religion and there has been a Constant Christian/Islam tension since the time of Mohammed. Only the Shia/Sunni split has weakened the power of the Islamic nations, else they could possibly be the overwhelming superpowers of today. There is a great deal of tension between Muslim nations, tension brought about by differing religious doctrines and economic matters. Iraq/Kuwait ? .. Muslim v Muslim .. Iraq v Iran ? .. you get the picture. George Galloway has jumped on the Islamist bandwagon because, I suspect, he is a narcissist and will advocate and preach any doctrine so long as he is in the limelight and has a contrary view to the majority.
Completely blinkered opinion.
If we're asking "who started it" what about the Roman Empire and the Byzantine Empire? "Imposing" their religion (christianity) on the middle east throughout the middle ages. What about the crusades? Saladin famously ordered a ceasefire and sent fruit and medicine to Richard the lionheart when he was ill. Just like christianity, if you look in the right places in their holy book, islam is a beautifully peaceful and loving religion, just in the same way it can be seen as horribly violent and "warrior" like. I suppose you've never read the Qu'ran or even read a history textbook of the early middle ages? It's only in the last 50 years that "christian europe" has actually had any prolonged period of peace.
I also find it ironic that you use Spain as an example of a country that were "taken over" by the muslims and then go on about how islam is the reason there is stunted growth and war in the middle east. Spain has been probably the most war torn christian country in existance. Civil wars and "tribal" areas like the basque country have been part of the country's history for centuries, all of them die hard christians. It's only through the spread of atheistic thought in the western world that has brought about dangerous fundamentalism in the islamic world and the prolonged peace in the west. If anything it's religion in general rather than Islam.
I think Lincs was trying to put straight the opinion that Islam is not and has never ever been expansionist and very prepared to use conflict in order to progress it's cause. Which given history it clearly is and has.
Super post Lincs. Fully agree. I am a paid up member of the SNP. I fully agree with Scottish Independance and the rebuilding of the wall. Galloway is a major twat. We are all struggling to get through this current crisis with what will probably be remembered as the worst of all governments. This idiot and the people of Bradford deserve each other.
What worse than Thatcher? Blair? Really. Wow, big call
i would agree tbh. Considering we're in the worst position economically since the great depression through Blair's gung ho spending policies. He sold out the working class and made immigration a huge problem. Sent us to war because god told him to, telling the people of my generation to get into debt and go to university no matter what because it's "socialism".
I think Lincs was trying to put straight the opinion that Islam is not and has never ever been expansionist and very prepared to use conflict in order to progress it's cause. Which given history it clearly is and has.
but so has christianity and religion in general. Picking on Islam and not putting the others in the same boat is just thilly.
Super post Lincs. Fully agree. I am a paid up member of the SNP. I fully agree with Scottish Independance and the rebuilding of the wall. Galloway is a major twat. We are all struggling to get through this current crisis with what will probably be remembered as the worst of all governments. This idiot and the people of Bradford deserve each other.
What worse than Thatcher? Blair? Really. Wow, big call
i would agree tbh. Considering we're in the worst position economically since the great depression through Blair's gung ho spending policies. He sold out the working class and made immigration a huge problem. Sent us to war because god told him to, telling the people of my generation to get into debt and go to university no matter what because it's "socialism".
Your view Kentaddick is blinkered to use your phrase back at you. What would be your view of the Thatcher years ?
Super post Lincs. Fully agree. I am a paid up member of the SNP. I fully agree with Scottish Independance and the rebuilding of the wall. Galloway is a major twat. We are all struggling to get through this current crisis with what will probably be remembered as the worst of all governments. This idiot and the people of Bradford deserve each other.
What worse than Thatcher? Blair? Really. Wow, big call
i would agree tbh. Considering we're in the worst position economically since the great depression through Blair's gung ho spending policies. He sold out the working class and made immigration a huge problem. Sent us to war because god told him to, telling the people of my generation to get into debt and go to university no matter what because it's "socialism".
Your view Kentaddick is blinkered to use your phrase back at you. What would be your view of the Thatcher years ?
Thatcher brought us kicking and screaming into the 21st century. Shame that what the 21st century so far has been mostly a load of old crap. She took us from being the sick man of europe to giving us a "Golden economy" which blair gleefully spent pretty quickly. A lot of people seem to use the fact she was a bitch as a reason why those years were "so awful". I wonder why she was also voted as one of the greatest prime ministers this country's ever had?
Super post Lincs. Fully agree. I am a paid up member of the SNP. I fully agree with Scottish Independance and the rebuilding of the wall. Galloway is a major twat. We are all struggling to get through this current crisis with what will probably be remembered as the worst of all governments. This idiot and the people of Bradford deserve each other.
What worse than Thatcher? Blair? Really. Wow, big call
i would agree tbh. Considering we're in the worst position economically since the great depression through Blair's gung ho spending policies. He sold out the working class and made immigration a huge problem. Sent us to war because god told him to, telling the people of my generation to get into debt and go to university no matter what because it's "socialism".
Your view Kentaddick is blinkered to use your phrase back at you. What would be your view of the Thatcher years ?
Thatcher brought us kicking and screaming into the 21st century. Shame that what the 21st century so far has been mostly a load of old crap. She took us from being the sick man of europe to giving us a "Golden economy" which blair gleefully spent pretty quickly. A lot of people seem to use the fact she was a bitch as a reason why those years were "so awful". I wonder why she was also voted as one of the greatest prime ministers this country's ever had?
Super post Lincs. Fully agree. I am a paid up member of the SNP. I fully agree with Scottish Independance and the rebuilding of the wall. Galloway is a major twat. We are all struggling to get through this current crisis with what will probably be remembered as the worst of all governments. This idiot and the people of Bradford deserve each other.
What worse than Thatcher? Blair? Really. Wow, big call
i would agree tbh. Considering we're in the worst position economically since the great depression through Blair's gung ho spending policies. He sold out the working class and made immigration a huge problem. Sent us to war because god told him to, telling the people of my generation to get into debt and go to university no matter what because it's "socialism".
Your view Kentaddick is blinkered to use your phrase back at you. What would be your view of the Thatcher years ?
Thatcher brought us kicking and screaming into the 21st century. Shame that what the 21st century so far has been mostly a load of old crap. She took us from being the sick man of europe to giving us a "Golden economy" which blair gleefully spent pretty quickly. A lot of people seem to use the fact she was a bitch as a reason why those years were "so awful". I wonder why she was also voted as one of the greatest prime ministers this country's ever had?
Oh SHG you are hilarious! Is there one thread on here that you do not try and bring Thatcher into? How old are you? Were you around pre-Thatcher/Thatcher/post-Thatcher or all your opinons formed in the student bar along with BlackForestRed?
Old enough to remember life before Thatcher Chirpy. My comments in this particular thread were in response the Kentaddicts rant at Blair which may or maybe not be justified but I had a sneaky feeling that behind that rant was a Mrs T worshipper and I was right. Got accused of trolling too :0)
Old enough to remember life before Thatcher Chirpy. My comments in this particular thread were in response the Kentaddicts rant at Blair which may or maybe not be justified but I had a sneaky feeling that behind that rant was a Mrs T worshipper and I was right. Got accused of trolling too :0)
Since when did i say i worshipped thatcher? I think she is a horrible woman 0_o
Thatcher brought us kicking and screaming into the 21st century. Shame that what the 21st century so far has been mostly a load of old crap. She took us from being the sick man of europe to giving us a "Golden economy" which blair gleefully spent pretty quickly. A lot of people seem to use the fact she was a bitch as a reason why those years were "so awful". I wonder why she was also voted as one of the greatest prime ministers this country's ever had?
Sorry I must have misread this as being in favour of Mrs T. My apoogies.
Chirpy !!!! You'll be asking what I'm wearing next ;0)
Thatcher brought us kicking and screaming into the 21st century. Shame that what the 21st century so far has been mostly a load of old crap. She took us from being the sick man of europe to giving us a "Golden economy" which blair gleefully spent pretty quickly. A lot of people seem to use the fact she was a bitch as a reason why those years were "so awful". I wonder why she was also voted as one of the greatest prime ministers this country's ever had?
She was voted one of the greatest PM's we've had because in fact she was. Whether you agree or not is irrelevent
HURR DURR EVERYTHING TO DO WITH THATCHER IS BAD DURRP
this is what i mean, you're trolling. You're claiming because I thought she did well by Britain I am a thatcher worshipper? Riiight... Some one's a bit ignorant.
When Mrs. Thatcher came to the throne I had been married three years and been a Valley regular for 18 years. Not a fan of Mrs T as you can guess. As for my age I am a sprightly 56
HURR DURR EVERYTHING TO DO WITH THATCHER IS BAD DURRP
this is what i mean, you're trolling. You're claiming because I thought she did well by Britain I am a thatcher worshipper? Riiight... Some one's a bit ignorant.
Think expressing my opinions and querying yours is hardly trolling. More debate I would have thought. But then again as I'm a bit ignorant what would I know. As for her doing well by Britain as you put it. That's why I made my PMSL comment.
I punched Galloway once! He swore in front of my old nan and my mate's 7 year old little girl, when I asked him to stop, he said "Make me!" So I did......Got a newpaper clipping somewere, I'll look for it and post it upon here if you like?
Amazing result. The ability of the Muslim community to get the block vote out is exactly why Ken has been so vocal about the Jews recently. If he wins the Mayoral election by galvanising the Muslim vote people are going to start getting very nervous about the UK's future demographics.
The ability of the Muslim community to get the block vote out is exactly why Ken has been so vocal about the Jews recently. If he wins the Mayoral election on the Muslim vote people are going to start getting very nervous about the UK's future demographics.
I punched Galloway once! He swore in front of my old nan and my mate's 7 year old little girl, when I asked him to stop, he said "Make me!" So I did......Got a newpaper clipping somewere, I'll look for it and post it upon here if you like?
Written, presciently in 1990 by Roy Harper (on the same album is a critique of fundamentalist christianity entitled 'if'). Sums up how I feel about what is happening in my community:
"I'm sick to the teeth of the news on the screen of hisbollah scum and jihad the obscene whose men plant the bombs and then live feeling free to watch women and children be killed on T.V.
which satan delivers a child a death curse in the name of a worn out collection of verse I've not read the book so I cannot recite but I'd bet Salman Rushdie is just about right underneath the black cloud of islam
What kind of publicity needs so much blood that's not for some sad diabolical god selling himself as a two-bit Macbeth as the expert in sentencing dozens to death
and what kind of god can this be anyway that you gotta prostrate to him five times a day with hate in your heart and a gun in your hand is force the only thing to understand underneath the black cloud of islam?
and the butchers who've got all this blood on their hands are the ones who need god to be stood where he stands blessing this kidnapping, murder and war with books written hundreds of ages before
and women in veils walking paces behind doesn't sit easy in my kind of mind it speaks of oppression and no other choice that rigid compliance with the loudest voice underneath the black cloud of islam
You can put a lead bullet clean through this guitar 'cos I'm not overjoyed with the story so far sharing a world with the nutters of god is as good as being six feet under the sod
words that are written are all here to stay and these are the latest there are anyway and I am the prophet so don't believe me I'm the same as the old ones except that I'm free to give you a piece of my mind which is this you're the worst of jehovas blind witlessnesses with your feet in the door of the deepest abyss which is underneath, which is underneath, which is underneath the black cloud of islam"
It was, and still is, the shape of things to come. For the first time since 'the Liverpool Protestant Party' we have sectarian politics in mainland Britain. I suppose we had better get used to it.
And no-one will investigate the postal vote fraud which most probably delivered this election victory. So, If it is anywhere like this place (which I know well), then we can also look forward to having a democratic system that is as free from voting fraud as Pakistan: 'The possibility of corruption has been eased by reforms to postal voting which have made electoral fraud "childishly simple" in the UK according to a European watchdog. The number of postal votes registered in Blackburn in 2005 was 20,000, compared to 7,600 in 2001' (The Guardian, Tuesday 22 January 2008). I can't find the percentage for the last election anywhere, but I know that it was reported that the numbers went up yet further. Be assured, our politicians won't rest until we are firmly a third world country in ways that you couldn't possibly imagine - this is just the start. Better get your Dhimmi practice in now.....
HURR DURR EVERYTHING TO DO WITH THATCHER IS BAD DURRP
this is what i mean, you're trolling. You're claiming because I thought she did well by Britain I am a thatcher worshipper? Riiight... Some one's a bit ignorant.
Think expressing my opinions and querying yours is hardly trolling. More debate I would have thought. But then again as I'm a bit ignorant what would I know. As for her doing well by Britain as you put it. That's why I made my PMSL comment.
You're not expressing your opinion, you're belittling other people's without any reason. Fine. I'm wrong? Then why? Don't just laugh at people who you don't agree with.
My response was to your summation of Blair as Prime Minister which opinions you are of course perfectly entitled to have. From that I merely requested that you inform us of your opinion of MT which I rightly guessed. I was I admit amused to read the glowing appraisal of her leadership but then I accept that's just my view. I doubt another thread on the relative merits or otherwise of Thatcherism would be productive.
Comments
If we're asking "who started it" what about the Roman Empire and the Byzantine Empire? "Imposing" their religion (christianity) on the middle east throughout the middle ages. What about the crusades? Saladin famously ordered a ceasefire and sent fruit and medicine to Richard the lionheart when he was ill. Just like christianity, if you look in the right places in their holy book, islam is a beautifully peaceful and loving religion, just in the same way it can be seen as horribly violent and "warrior" like. I suppose you've never read the Qu'ran or even read a history textbook of the early middle ages? It's only in the last 50 years that "christian europe" has actually had any prolonged period of peace.
I also find it ironic that you use Spain as an example of a country that were "taken over" by the muslims and then go on about how islam is the reason there is stunted growth and war in the middle east. Spain has been probably the most war torn christian country in existance. Civil wars and "tribal" areas like the basque country have been part of the country's history for centuries, all of them die hard christians. It's only through the spread of atheistic thought in the western world that has brought about dangerous fundamentalism in the islamic world and the prolonged peace in the west. If anything it's religion in general rather than Islam.
I think Lincs was trying to put straight the opinion that Islam is not and has never ever been expansionist and very prepared to use conflict in order to progress it's cause. Which given history it clearly is and has.
Sorry I must have misread this as being in favour of Mrs T. My apoogies.
Chirpy !!!! You'll be asking what I'm wearing next ;0)
How old are you btw SHG?
Good pointSorry, I mean...This!"I'm sick to the teeth of the news on the screen
of hisbollah scum and jihad the obscene
whose men plant the bombs and then live feeling free
to watch women and children be killed on T.V.
which satan delivers a child a death curse
in the name of a worn out collection of verse
I've not read the book so I cannot recite
but I'd bet Salman Rushdie is just about right
underneath the black cloud of islam
What kind of publicity needs so much blood
that's not for some sad diabolical god
selling himself as a two-bit Macbeth
as the expert in sentencing dozens to death
and what kind of god can this be anyway
that you gotta prostrate to him five times a day
with hate in your heart and a gun in your hand
is force the only thing to understand
underneath the black cloud of islam?
and the butchers who've got all this blood on their hands
are the ones who need god to be stood where he stands
blessing this kidnapping, murder and war
with books written hundreds of ages before
and women in veils walking paces behind
doesn't sit easy in my kind of mind
it speaks of oppression and no other choice
that rigid compliance with the loudest voice
underneath the black cloud of islam
You can put a lead bullet clean through this guitar
'cos I'm not overjoyed with the story so far
sharing a world with the nutters of god
is as good as being six feet under the sod
words that are written are all here to stay
and these are the latest there are anyway
and I am the prophet so don't believe me
I'm the same as the old ones except that I'm free
to give you a piece of my mind which is this
you're the worst of jehovas blind witlessnesses
with your feet in the door of the deepest abyss
which is underneath, which is underneath, which is underneath
the black cloud of islam"
It was, and still is, the shape of things to come. For the first time since 'the Liverpool Protestant Party' we have sectarian politics in mainland Britain. I suppose we had better get used to it.
And no-one will investigate the postal vote fraud which most probably delivered this election victory. So, If it is anywhere like this place (which I know well), then we can also look forward to having a democratic system that is as free from voting fraud as Pakistan: 'The possibility of corruption has been eased by reforms to postal voting which have made electoral fraud "childishly simple" in the UK according to a European watchdog. The number of postal votes registered in Blackburn in 2005 was 20,000, compared to 7,600 in 2001' (The Guardian, Tuesday 22 January 2008). I can't find the percentage for the last election anywhere, but I know that it was reported that the numbers went up yet further. Be assured, our politicians won't rest until we are firmly a third world country in ways that you couldn't possibly imagine - this is just the start. Better get your Dhimmi practice in now.....