t I am in favour of moving to a new stadium on the Greenwich Peninsula, if it allows us to progress, and would allow us to build on our fanbase , and obviously made financial sense.
I agree but they are some very big ifs.
The historical and sentimental ties to the Valley are important and should not IMHO be dismissed out of hand. If we don't have our history then what are we?
A wish to retain the Club's history and tradition does not make someone "an ostrich". Nor does pointing out the many problems that a new stadium would bring make someone a "luddite".
On the other hand sometimes people and institutions need to move to move forward.
You said on the other thread that it was " a 40,000 stadium effectively given to us" but none of that is accurate.
There has been vague talk of an arena that might be built, funding, shape, capacity, roof, usage not specified. Nowhere has it officially been said it will have 40k seats or that anyone is going to be giving it to anyone.
Charlton, quite rightly, have taken an interest because they need to be aware of what is happening on their doorstep for both the opportunities (a new state of the art stadium perhaps) and the threats (another team moving in) such an arena might offer. That is because the Club have heard of negotiation and want to be round the table from the start to know about and influence what might happen.
Nothing is agreed and most likely the arena won't be built for many years, if ever.
Personally I have no problem moving to another stadium but there are certain caveats on that. The Stadium would have -
- to be owned or under our control,
- to be significantly better in size and facilities that is potentially available at the Valley
- have to have the potential to generate significantly more income than the Valley
- to be designed primarily for football (ie no running track and with proper ends)
- to have road and public transport links from SE London and Kent as good if not better than for the Valley
- Substantial and affordable parking available. Most likely this would have to be part of the planning application and may mean the cost of the stadium would be much higher. Just saying "negotiate with the car park owners to get free parking" is nonsense. To negotiate with the owners you have to have something to offer them. They give us £100,000s of free parking a season and we give them what exactly? A free executive box? No, they would want paying.
- pricing in a significant part of the stadium would have to be in line with current Valley pricing.
Great post Henry - that pretty much nails it for me!
I would like to point out that The Valley is beginning to look tired for a relatively new stadium. The red seats come in about 4 shades of pink, rust all over, scrubby concourses etc
I would like to point out that The Valley is beginning to look tired for a relatively new stadium. The red seats come in about 4 shades of pink, rust all over, scrubby concourses etc
You should see some other grounds makes the Valley look like a palace.
For those who haven't been to an O2 event - the best seats are the corporate boxes with us normal people above them. You only really see the action on giant screens.
I've been loads of times so I know that's Bullshit. You either got your tickets late or paid a fiver less than people at ground level
t I am in favour of moving to a new stadium on the Greenwich Peninsula, if it allows us to progress, and would allow us to build on our fanbase , and obviously made financial sense.
I agree but they are some very big ifs.
The historical and sentimental ties to the Valley are important and should not IMHO be dismissed out of hand. If we don't have our history then what are we?
A wish to retain the Club's history and tradition does not make someone "an ostrich". Nor does pointing out the many problems that a new stadium would bring make someone a "luddite".
On the other hand sometimes people and institutions need to move to move forward.
I disagree, i think i'm totally entitled to call someone a Luddite or Ostrich if they are totally unprepared to listen to what benefits could possibly be on offer and dismiss the notion without even opening their eyes or ears, as has been the case with a lot of posters here.Hiding behind the veil of history and tradition, however admirable that may be, does not represent 'progress' in my eyes .
It costs more to park at the 02 (£28) than it does to go and watch Charlton at The Valley. This alone shows that any such move should be dismissed straight away.
This being a prime example. Its been rejected outright because of the thought that parking would be expensive. (which has been a regular theme) !
It costs more to park at the 02 (£28) than it does to go and watch Charlton at The Valley. This alone shows that any such move should be dismissed straight away.
This being a prime example. Its been rejected outright because of the thought that parking would be expensive. (which has been a regular theme) !
That's because parking is expensive!
How our fanbase travel to the stadium week in week out would be a main consideration to the club, so why isn't it for you?
t I am in favour of moving to a new stadium on the Greenwich Peninsula, if it allows us to progress, and would allow us to build on our fanbase , and obviously made financial sense.
I agree but they are some very big ifs.
The historical and sentimental ties to the Valley are important and should not IMHO be dismissed out of hand. If we don't have our history then what are we?
A wish to retain the Club's history and tradition does not make someone "an ostrich". Nor does pointing out the many problems that a new stadium would bring make someone a "luddite".
On the other hand sometimes people and institutions need to move to move forward.
You said on the other thread that it was " a 40,000 stadium effectively given to us" but none of that is accurate.
There has been vague talk of an arena that might be built, funding, shape, capacity, roof, usage not specified. Nowhere has it officially been said it will have 40k seats or that anyone is going to be giving it to anyone.
Charlton, quite rightly, have taken an interest because they need to be aware of what is happening on their doorstep for both the opportunities (a new state of the art stadium perhaps) and the threats (another team moving in) such an arena might offer. That is because the Club have heard of negotiation and want to be round the table from the start to know about and influence what might happen.
Nothing is agreed and most likely the arena won't be built for many years, if ever.
Personally I have no problem moving to another stadium but there are certain caveats on that. The Stadium would have -
- to be owned or under our control,
- to be significantly better in size and facilities that is potentially available at the Valley
- have to have the potential to generate significantly more income than the Valley
- to be designed primarily for football (ie no running track and with proper ends)
- to have road and public transport links from SE London and Kent as good if not better than for the Valley
- Substantial and affordable parking available. Most likely this would have to be part of the planning application and may mean the cost of the stadium would be much higher. Just saying "negotiate with the car park owners to get free parking" is nonsense. To negotiate with the owners you have to have something to offer them. They give us £100,000s of free parking a season and we give them what exactly? A free executive box? No, they would want paying.
- pricing in a significant part of the stadium would have to be in line with current Valley pricing.
Great post Henry - that pretty much nails it for me!
I'm with Henry and Bing. Of course The Valley is special to us, but that doesn't mean that we should be tied to it irrespective of circumstance. We shouldn't rule out new developments as a matter of principle but need to ensure that any changes are for the better for both the club and it's supporters.
t I am in favour of moving to a new stadium on the Greenwich Peninsula, if it allows us to progress, and would allow us to build on our fanbase , and obviously made financial sense.
I agree but they are some very big ifs.
The historical and sentimental ties to the Valley are important and should not IMHO be dismissed out of hand. If we don't have our history then what are we?
A wish to retain the Club's history and tradition does not make someone "an ostrich". Nor does pointing out the many problems that a new stadium would bring make someone a "luddite".
On the other hand sometimes people and institutions need to move to move forward.
You said on the other thread that it was " a 40,000 stadium effectively given to us" but none of that is accurate.
There has been vague talk of an arena that might be built, funding, shape, capacity, roof, usage not specified. Nowhere has it officially been said it will have 40k seats or that anyone is going to be giving it to anyone.
Charlton, quite rightly, have taken an interest because they need to be aware of what is happening on their doorstep for both the opportunities (a new state of the art stadium perhaps) and the threats (another team moving in) such an arena might offer. That is because the Club have heard of negotiation and want to be round the table from the start to know about and influence what might happen.
Nothing is agreed and most likely the arena won't be built for many years, if ever.
Personally I have no problem moving to another stadium but there are certain caveats on that. The Stadium would have -
- to be owned or under our control,
- to be significantly better in size and facilities that is potentially available at the Valley
- have to have the potential to generate significantly more income than the Valley
- to be designed primarily for football (ie no running track and with proper ends)
- to have road and public transport links from SE London and Kent as good if not better than for the Valley
- Substantial and affordable parking available. Most likely this would have to be part of the planning application and may mean the cost of the stadium would be much higher. Just saying "negotiate with the car park owners to get free parking" is nonsense. To negotiate with the owners you have to have something to offer them. They give us £100,000s of free parking a season and we give them what exactly? A free executive box? No, they would want paying.
- pricing in a significant part of the stadium would have to be in line with current Valley pricing.
Great post Henry - that pretty much nails it for me!
I'm with Henry and Bing. Of course The Valley is special to us, but that doesn't mean that we should be tied to it irrespective of circumstance. We shouldn't rule out new developments as a matter of principle but need to ensure that any changes are for the better for both the club and it's supporters.
Thank you Stig. a well thought out post-some sense at last .You are quite obviously NOT a Luddite nor Ostrich !!
It costs more to park at the 02 (£28) than it does to go and watch Charlton at The Valley. This alone shows that any such move should be dismissed straight away.
This being a prime example. Its been rejected outright because of the thought that parking would be expensive. (which has been a regular theme) !
That's because parking is expensive!
How our fanbase travel to the stadium week in week out would be a main consideration to the club, so why isn't it for you?
As i have stated many times, if it proves to be a major problem that cannot be overcome then obviously the club will not move - however, think about it in a more logical way instead of the simplistic way you have here ....lets say you owned a business in Woolwich High Street, and you had no punters coming because the owners of the car park next door had trebled the parking charges, then you would go to Greenwich Council and complain and ask them to do something - becuase you are paying your (probably very high) council tax to them. There are ways around 'issues' like these- you just cant dismiss things because of a perceived problem.As the yanks say, look and think outside the box.
We would complain, and the council will turn around and say 'why didn't you buy some land to turn into a car park yourself?'
Complaining to the council about the charges in a private car park will have no bearing.
Petrol prices in London garages are extortionate, if I complain to the council about it will they give two hoots? No.
House prices are also through the roof compared to, for example, Middlesbrough. Again, complain all you like it won't change a thing.
Whether you're a single person, a company or even the most influential financial district in Europe, they won't force a private company to change the price!
Thinking outside the box on a matter like this doesn't work, blue sky thinking and all that bollocks has no bearing on this.
Here's thinking outside the box for you, how about we knock down the Valley, turn it into a 14 floor car park and run our own monorail from the car park to our new stadium every 47 seconds?
We would complain, and the council will turn around and say 'why didn't you buy some land to turn into a car park yourself?'
Complaining to the council about the charges in a private car park will have no bearing.
Petrol prices in London garages are extortionate, if I complain to the council about it will they give two hoots? No.
House prices are also through the roof compared to, for example, Middlesbrough. Again, complain all you like it won't change a thing.
Whether you're a single person, a company or even the most influential financial district in Europe, they won't force a private company to change the price!
Thinking outside the box on a matter like this doesn't work, blue sky thinking and all that bollocks has no bearing on this.
Here's thinking outside the box for you, how about we knock down the Valley, turn it into a 14 floor car park and run our own monorail from the car park to our new stadium every 47 seconds?
;-)
Sigh.... Petrol doesnt go to Councils, not does any portion of a price of a house, nor the cost of a loaf of bread...however, Council Tax *does* !!!!!!
I'm afraid i've come to the conclusion, based upon the comments of the majority of people on here, that i now fully understand why Liddle Ol Charlton will remain Liddle Ol Charlton, fluctuating between the divisions forever except for the occasional sojourn in the top tier.
Remind me not to employ you should you come want to work for me (Stig excepted !).
Here's thinking outside the box for you, how about we knock down the Valley, turn it into a 14 floor car park and run our own monorail from the car park to our new stadium every 47 seconds?
;-)
Great idea, Sam.......but The Valley is in a residential area and it's doubtful whether planning consent would be given for a 14 story car park.
Now the monorail, brilliant! I wish I'd thought of that first.
I'm afraid i've come to the conclusion, based upon the comments of the majority of people on here, that i now fully understand why Liddle Ol Charlton will remain Liddle Ol Charlton, fluctuating between the divisions forever except for the occasional sojourn in the top tier.
Liddle Ol Charlton is owned and run by successful business people, not Charlton Lifers. They may have other ideas.
Or. Underground parking making good use of the Napoleonic caves under The Valley plus we get to sell all the brandy that's stored there at £45 a bottle.
I'm afraid i've come to the conclusion, based upon the comments of the majority of people on here, that i now fully understand why Liddle Ol Charlton will remain Liddle Ol Charlton, fluctuating between the divisions forever except for the occasional sojourn in the top tier.
Remind me not to employ you should you come want to work for me (Stig excepted !).
So tell me how you differ when you've ignored so many other views on the other thread.
There are lots of reasons as to why staying at The Valley might be in the club's best interests, but you seem obsessed with a bigger stadium and insulting anyone that fails to agree with you.
Honestly, discussing with you is about as useful as talking to a brick wall.
Feel free to insult me some more, as it has little impact when it comes from someone that refuses to even acknowledge other's views.
I would like to point out that The Valley is beginning to look tired for a relatively new stadium. The red seats come in about 4 shades of pink, rust all over, scrubby concourses etc
You should see some other grounds makes the Valley look like a palace.
But the oldest parts are only 20 years old and some just ten. Lack of maintenenace will mean it all looks and feels pony in 2 or 3 years. I was in that bar / room on the half way line and if that is one of out main entertaining or corporate areas then I wouldn't pay much. We only have 9 boxes as well don't we
I'm afraid i've come to the conclusion, based upon the comments of the majority of people on here, that i now fully understand why Liddle Ol Charlton will remain Liddle Ol Charlton, fluctuating between the divisions forever except for the occasional sojourn in the top tier.
Remind me not to employ you should you come want to work for me (Stig excepted !).
You're the kind of person that probably booed the team for being middle table in the Premier League, thus driving Curbsishley out. I bet you also want to get rid of the "Red, Red Robin" theme too, don't you?
It costs more to park at the 02 (£28) than it does to go and watch Charlton at The Valley. This alone shows that any such move should be dismissed straight away.
This being a prime example. Its been rejected outright because of the thought that parking would be expensive. (which has been a regular theme) !
That's because parking is expensive!
How our fanbase travel to the stadium week in week out would be a main consideration to the club, so why isn't it for you?</blockquote
Would certainly be a field day for Valley Express ( if they could park somewhere for free...)
Wot about relocating Stonehenge to the Dome so that it runs around the outside. Can always add a few fake stones, No one will ever know. Wickes do a good deal on stones. We can have the inside and use the Valley for cup games to keep lifers happy We would be the only club in the country to have two grounds and a historical visit. Could always run a monorail down to the Gills ground and up to Selhurst Park. Dangle a few Millwall fans from it if they misbehave.
It is a reasonable idea to plan for the future, but why does that have to automatically mean moving to somewhere else. Are Charlton convinced that we would sell out every game in the premiership, even with the current stadium. I appreciate there may well be large obstacles into obtaining planning permission for expansion, the finance, and the transport links, as a few issues to resolve. Of course with the right type of finance it may well be reasonably possible,otherwise I for one will not be going, as I have stated before on this site. But then again I am not reasonable in regard to this issue, however wonderful the palace of football might be. I would have thought that stick with what you have got, and try and be creative and use a little imagination, and of course some money.
In the space of one page of a thread, we have moved the club to a new stadium which hasn't been built and probably never will be, and we're already complaining about the parking prices for it.
Comments
How our fanbase travel to the stadium week in week out would be a main consideration to the club, so why isn't it for you?
There are ways around 'issues' like these- you just cant dismiss things because of a perceived problem.As the yanks say, look and think outside the box.
Complaining to the council about the charges in a private car park will have no bearing.
Petrol prices in London garages are extortionate, if I complain to the council about it will they give two hoots? No.
House prices are also through the roof compared to, for example, Middlesbrough. Again, complain all you like it won't change a thing.
Whether you're a single person, a company or even the most influential financial district in Europe, they won't force a private company to change the price!
Thinking outside the box on a matter like this doesn't work, blue sky thinking and all that bollocks has no bearing on this.
Here's thinking outside the box for you, how about we knock down the Valley, turn it into a 14 floor car park and run our own monorail from the car park to our new stadium every 47 seconds?
;-)
Petrol doesnt go to Councils, not does any portion of a price of a house, nor the cost of a loaf of bread...however, Council Tax *does* !!!!!!
Remind me not to employ you should you come want to work for me (Stig excepted !).
Now the monorail, brilliant!
I wish I'd thought of that first.
;o)
They may have other ideas.
Counter the points made with valid alternatives rather than come up with meaningless cliches about "think outside the box".
Other than your contribution PA is has been an interesting discussion.
There are lots of reasons as to why staying at The Valley might be in the club's best interests, but you seem obsessed with a bigger stadium and insulting anyone that fails to agree with you.
Honestly, discussing with you is about as useful as talking to a brick wall.
Feel free to insult me some more, as it has little impact when it comes from someone that refuses to even acknowledge other's views.
Are Charlton convinced that we would sell out every game in the premiership, even with the current stadium.
I appreciate there may well be large obstacles into obtaining planning permission for expansion, the finance, and the transport links, as a few issues to resolve. Of course with the right type of finance it may well be reasonably possible,otherwise I for one will not be going, as I have stated before on this site. But then again I am not reasonable in regard to this issue, however wonderful the palace of football might be.
I would have thought that stick with what you have got, and try and be creative and use a little imagination, and of course some money.
I've heard it all now!