I hate to disagree, but that pitch doesn't strike me as how fresh it would look at the 80th minute of a very wet day in Feb, certainly not in those days when pitches from Nov onwards were not so good.
Another early season candidate I'd overlooked was actually the first game of the season on 20 Aug 74 against Peterboro in the League Cup (4-0 Curtis pen 77 mins) att 5,911 but then again by the time the pen was struck that would have been around 9 o'clock .... not likely that on a wet evening the light would be so good.
Not so fast! - We don't know for sure that the penalty was scored. I'm surprised that you don't recognise the ref, GHF! I have left a message on the Swindon fans' forum asking for confirmation and will let you know of any responses....
That terracing behind the goal Callum used to go back much higher than that and I believe was sold off to enable the residential development (block of flats) in the 1984/5 photo at the top of the thread to be built. On the player front Shipperley is the one bending over front right foreground and behind him on the other side of the 'D' is Horsfield I reckon. Looks like Bowman and next to him Colin Powell? The penalty taker could be Hales. Edit: Forgot to mention the raised grass area and goalposts behind the corner flag in the background which was a waste area, as far back as I can remember in the early sixties, used for shooting / penalty practice in training.
It's a wonderful picture that above all captures how open and light The Valley was. The downside to that of course was that in wintry weather it was like standing in an outpost of the Arctic! As well as the amphitheatre of the stadium itself there were also the peripheral open spaces, one of which, shown in the picture, was the flat area with a goal post behind the Grandstand side. Imagine what it was like then - these days you're nailed down to a specific seat but back then you could walk all round the whole site. The only place inaccessible was the Grandstand itself, for which there was a separate entrance. This complete openness allowed a leisurely stroll around the ground, and many people chose different places from match to match from where to watch the game. For young 'uns the Covered End was always a magnet but I also liked the vantage point of the top of the East. And then there the mass migrations of those who changed ends at half-time.
The picture also clearly shows the effect of the weather. There are puddles around the pitch which suggest that there had been plenty of rain, confirmed by the numerous brollies - people had come prepared and hadn't been caught out by an unexpected shower. I have written before about games where the weather played its own special part in the atmosphere created in these unique acres, especially Jan 62 Derby (heavy mist), Mar 63 Plymouth (monsoon) and Oct 63 Cardiff (golden Autumn afternoon). In modern times I can think only of the poor souls in Jan 98 (Forest FA Cup) left exposed in a cloudburst in a temporarily open section of the partially-built West Stand extension.
Pictures like this readily bring forward many reminiscences simply because The Valley really was unlike any other ground. The memories become particularly poignant when we've just had a monumental discussion about The Takeover Dat Never Wuz: I was astonished just how many people (myself included) were prepared to contemplate a new life in glamorous SE10 if that's what selling out to Uncle Sam would have come to. Well, as we know, in the end Bomber Harris didn't pay out, he just cleared out, but it left me with the uneasy feeling that somehow we had suddenly become so desperate for a dollar bill that we were ready to write off so much history, which is absolutely not what we are about.
Well, maybe the answer is we are talking about two Valleys. There is the modern stadium of which we are so proud: it's our showpiece, and looking across to The Heights and Lansdowne Mews which in distant years gone by were ugly wasteland but now have mature trees and greenery to give the ground a beautiful backdrop, it is now almost elegant (no, I've not been at the Christmas sherry). It's perfectly serviceable and would do a decent job for any new owner pending developments over the road. And - it's our tribal homeland.
But .... it's not the Old Valley, the days of towering terraces and Peanuts Tanner a Bag Peanuts, and a football trade which is rapidly becoming more and more remote from the modern "game". That's what we remember, and it's different, very different. From the mid-thirties, when the Glikstens surfed the success of Jimmy Seed's team to dramatically expand The Valley's capacity, the ensuing half-century saw precious few changes. In 61 the floodlights came, in 68 the top of the South Terrace was shaved off when the flats were built, and in the late seventies the unusual cantilevers of the Grandstand roof were replaced by a unappealing flat hat, and the seated Jimmy Seed covered what was left of the South. Before these modest changes the ground was in its vintage form. In 1974 The Valley was about to enter its twilight years, culminating in 1985 with its closure, the whole place a sorry sight and with the majestic East, by now festooned with rusty fencing, already shut down to the public.
So perhaps this is where the ambivalence lies. We treasure the classic Valley, but we must face things as they stand today. We want the old and new both, but maybe the timeline is fractured. We live in the here-and-now and we must move forward or otherwise suffer again as we did in all those years of stagnation, but we must also never fail to honour our heritage and our tradition. Recent events have been a little reminder, certainly to me - many thanks for posting this great picture - instant nostalgia!
I hate to disagree, but that pitch doesn't strike me as how fresh it would look at the 80th minute of a very wet day in Feb, certainly not in those days when pitches from Nov onwards were not so good.
Another early season candidate I'd overlooked was actually the first game of the season on 20 Aug 74 against Peterboro in the League Cup (4-0 Curtis pen 77 mins) att 5,911 but then again by the time the pen was struck that would have been around 9 o'clock .... not likely that on a wet evening the light would be so good.
Not so fast! - We don't know for sure that the penalty was scored. I'm surprised that you don't recognise the ref, GHF! I have left a message on the Swindon fans' forum asking for confirmation and will let you know of any responses....
VF - I stand to be corrected, as always, but I don't think the great Bob Curtis ever missed a penalty.
Yes, as with the Rotherham picture a couple of months ago the input from the opposition's fans will be interesting. And I'm afraid the ref on this occasion was not as memorable as Mr JR Osborne (Ipswich, Suffolk) - thank goodness.
No, but I was on the covered end fence behind the goal and he reduced my sister to tears when the Preston keeper saved his penalty in the promotion winning last game of the season in May '75! He was a legend though, I heard he was serving beer in the Watermans Arms within 15 mins of that game finishing.
No, but I was on the covered end fence behind the goal and he reduced my sister to tears when the Preston keeper saved his penalty in the promotion winning last game of the season in May '75! He was a legend though, I heard he was serving beer in the Watermans Arms within 15 mins of that game finishing.
In which case I was standing very close to you, as I was too !
Good work by all those who identified Swindon - several fans on their forum confirm that they wore an away kit of all-blue at that time. Reg Smeeton, subtitled 'The Walking Encyclopaedia', writes: "You can see Tommy Jenkins (no. 11) in semi-teapot mode, and Peter Eastoe (no. 9). To me it looks like John Trollope edging into the area, Frank Burrows and the Prof (Colin Prophett) are lurking, and Terry Hubbard is the smaller figure poised to spring into action." League Division 3; 21 September 1974; Charlton 3, Swindon 3; Powell 2, Curtis, pen; att. 4,527.
That's another brilliant and superb post, GHF. Your atmospheric evocations of the old Valley strike a particular chord at this time of an aborted takeover and fears of a possible move. I've been looking back at the wildly fluctuating home attendances around the time of that Swindon game; the final match of the previous season, against Aldershot, drew only 3,245 (won 2-0), yet just eight months later we attracted 26,104 for the game against Palace (won 1-0).
As we maintain a healthy average gate of around 15,000, it's worth remembering some of the pitiful crowds of the not-so-distant past. In 1985-86, the season we were promoted to the top tier after an absence of 29 years, only 3,059 turned out for our game against Carlisle. And even in the top division the following year, Norwich, Forest, Southampton and Villa each attracted crowds of less than 6,000.
So there's no lack of support as we contemplate the very real prospect of third-tier football at The Valley once again. Many of our players in the Third Division in 1974 still shine as Charlton legends: Flanagan and Hales, Bob Curtis, Phil Warman, King Arthur, Keith Peacock and Paddy Powell. In 40 years' time will we look back on our current squad of players with the same affection and admiration? Somehow, I don't think so.
Good work by all those who identified Swindon - several fans on their forum confirm that they wore an away kit of all-blue at that time. Reg Smeeton, subtitled 'The Walking Encyclopaedia', writes: "You can see Tommy Jenkins (no. 11) in semi-teapot mode, and Peter Eastoe (no. 9). To me it looks like John Trollope edging into the area, Frank Burrows and the Prof (Colin Prophett) are lurking, and Terry Hubbard is the smaller figure poised to spring into action." League Division 3; 21 September 1974; Charlton 3, Swindon 3; Powell 2, Curtis, pen; att. 4,527.
That's another brilliant and superb post, GHF. Your atmospheric evocations of the old Valley strike a particular chord at this time of an aborted takeover and fears of a possible move. I've been looking back at the wildly fluctuating home attendances around the time of that Swindon game; the final match of the previous season, against Aldershot, drew only 3,245 (won 2-0), yet just eight months later we attracted 26,104 for the game against Palace (won 1-0).
As we maintain a healthy average gate of around 15,000, it's worth remembering some of the pitiful crowds of the not-so-distant past. In 1985-86, the season we were promoted to the top tier after an absence of 29 years, only 3,059 turned out for our game against Carlisle. And even in the top division the following year, Norwich, Forest, Southampton and Villa each attracted crowds of less than 6,000.
So there's no lack of support as we contemplate the very real prospect of third-tier football at The Valley once again. Many of our players in the Third Division in 1974 still shine as Charlton legends: Flanagan and Hales, Bob Curtis, Phil Warman, King Arthur, Keith Peacock and Paddy Powell. In 40 years' time will we look back on our current squad of players with the same affection and admiration? Somehow, I don't think so.
I absolutely love that picture callumcafc, think I'll make it my desktop background! Used to stand just along to the right and down a bit. Wow! All the memories are flooding back.
I absolutely love that picture callumcafc, think I'll make it my desktop background! Used to stand just along to the right and down a bit. Wow! All the memories are flooding back.
Yeah, it's a great picture: I love the sparse loyal crowd under brollies, the sections of terracing at different levels, the rain-swept roofs in the background. And great black & white photos from E-cafc, too; I think I've seen the one of the muddy pitch published recently, but can't remember the details. Date? Opposition? Players?
As we maintain a healthy average gate of around 15,000, it's worth remembering some of the pitiful crowds of the not-so-distant past. In 1985-86, the season we were promoted to the top tier after an absence of 29 years, only 3,059 turned out for our game against Carlisle. And even in the top division the following year, Norwich, Forest, Southampton and Villa each attracted crowds of less than 6,000.
To be fair though, those games you mention weren't at The Valley. If they had been the crowd would have been a lot higher. Maybe not massivley so, but definitely higher.
I was on a pleasure flight from Biggin Hill, my aim was take take a pic of my house but the Pilot went the wrong side of Shooters Hill and we ended up circling over the Valley.
Found it in a shoebox in the loft, so I thought I'd share it.
I love the idea of a photo archive, I'd be very willing to get involved Ken. I have some photos of the East stand being constructed somewhere.
I have quite a few of the East being built as well,plus many of the ground in disarray when we played at palace.
Also have quite a few of the Valley before selhurst,which I'm presuming were taken during a pre-season,looks nice
Comments
Also, it was not Hereford as they played in white shirts & black shorts.
Oldham was an evening game. I remember that as well, as they were top & we thrashed them.
It looks to me like "killer" on the outside of the "d" standing up.
I thought Swindon before reading other comments above. 3-3 draw Powell, Curtis pen, Powell.
http://www.statto.com/football/teams/charlton-athletic/1973-1974
The picture also clearly shows the effect of the weather. There are puddles around the pitch which suggest that there had been plenty of rain, confirmed by the numerous brollies - people had come prepared and hadn't been caught out by an unexpected shower. I have written before about games where the weather played its own special part in the atmosphere created in these unique acres, especially Jan 62 Derby (heavy mist), Mar 63 Plymouth (monsoon) and Oct 63 Cardiff (golden Autumn afternoon). In modern times I can think only of the poor souls in Jan 98 (Forest FA Cup) left exposed in a cloudburst in a temporarily open section of the partially-built West Stand extension.
Pictures like this readily bring forward many reminiscences simply because The Valley really was unlike any other ground. The memories become particularly poignant when we've just had a monumental discussion about The Takeover Dat Never Wuz: I was astonished just how many people (myself included) were prepared to contemplate a new life in glamorous SE10 if that's what selling out to Uncle Sam would have come to. Well, as we know, in the end Bomber Harris didn't pay out, he just cleared out, but it left me with the uneasy feeling that somehow we had suddenly become so desperate for a dollar bill that we were ready to write off so much history, which is absolutely not what we are about.
Well, maybe the answer is we are talking about two Valleys. There is the modern stadium of which we are so proud: it's our showpiece, and looking across to The Heights and Lansdowne Mews which in distant years gone by were ugly wasteland but now have mature trees and greenery to give the ground a beautiful backdrop, it is now almost elegant (no, I've not been at the Christmas sherry). It's perfectly serviceable and would do a decent job for any new owner pending developments over the road. And - it's our tribal homeland.
But .... it's not the Old Valley, the days of towering terraces and Peanuts Tanner a Bag Peanuts, and a football trade which is rapidly becoming more and more remote from the modern "game". That's what we remember, and it's different, very different. From the mid-thirties, when the Glikstens surfed the success of Jimmy Seed's team to dramatically expand The Valley's capacity, the ensuing half-century saw precious few changes. In 61 the floodlights came, in 68 the top of the South Terrace was shaved off when the flats were built, and in the late seventies the unusual cantilevers of the Grandstand roof were replaced by a unappealing flat hat, and the seated Jimmy Seed covered what was left of the South. Before these modest changes the ground was in its vintage form. In 1974 The Valley was about to enter its twilight years, culminating in 1985 with its closure, the whole place a sorry sight and with the majestic East, by now festooned with rusty fencing, already shut down to the public.
So perhaps this is where the ambivalence lies. We treasure the classic Valley, but we must face things as they stand today. We want the old and new both, but maybe the timeline is fractured. We live in the here-and-now and we must move forward or otherwise suffer again as we did in all those years of stagnation, but we must also never fail to honour our heritage and our tradition. Recent events have been a little reminder, certainly to me - many thanks for posting this great picture - instant nostalgia!
Yes, as with the Rotherham picture a couple of months ago the input from the opposition's fans will be interesting. And I'm afraid the ref on this occasion was not as memorable as Mr JR Osborne (Ipswich, Suffolk) - thank goodness.
That grass verge by the old goalposts, how many people slipped over there:)
That's another brilliant and superb post, GHF. Your atmospheric evocations of the old Valley strike a particular chord at this time of an aborted takeover and fears of a possible move. I've been looking back at the wildly fluctuating home attendances around the time of that Swindon game; the final match of the previous season, against Aldershot, drew only 3,245 (won 2-0), yet just eight months later we attracted 26,104 for the game against Palace (won 1-0).
As we maintain a healthy average gate of around 15,000, it's worth remembering some of the pitiful crowds of the not-so-distant past. In 1985-86, the season we were promoted to the top tier after an absence of 29 years, only 3,059 turned out for our game against Carlisle. And even in the top division the following year, Norwich, Forest, Southampton and Villa each attracted crowds of less than 6,000.
So there's no lack of support as we contemplate the very real prospect of third-tier football at The Valley once again. Many of our players in the Third Division in 1974 still shine as Charlton legends: Flanagan and Hales, Bob Curtis, Phil Warman, King Arthur, Keith Peacock and Paddy Powell. In 40 years' time will we look back on our current squad of players with the same affection and admiration? Somehow, I don't think so.
Used to stand just along to the right and down a bit.
Wow! All the memories are flooding back.
Also have quite a few of the Valley before selhurst,which I'm presuming were taken during a pre-season,looks nice