I just don't get the intensity of it all, who cares if someone likes Breaking Bad or The Sopranos more? I actually found a number of The Sopranos episodes quite dull, and it wouldn't be in my top 5 tv series, but it doesn't bother me in the slightest that so many people love it so much.
The thing with breaking bad is that it's not a subtle series
My favourite aspect of the show is the theme of cause and effect. Primarily how Walt's actions touched the lives of so many, and destroyed a huge chunk of them. The plane crash story was at the core of this. His decisions had a major knock on effect, he was learning that, using it, yet not even comprehending it. The theme of cause and effect is something I think Gilligan deliberately, and subtly, weaved into the show.
Because otherwise she's such a one dimensional character and incredibly boring
I found it refreshing that BB had a cast of actors largely over 45. Particularly a lead female role. After Alex Kingston criticised the producers of ER, I've noticed how so few women are given meaty roles in US TV.
While Walt slowly turned into Heisenberg and was either playing one or the other, Anna Gunn depicted a woman who was a combination of good and bad at all times. I found that fascinating. In TV you're either one or the other, and I think that made Skyler bemusing to the audience. She was ultimately darker of heart than many of us expected, not dissimilar to Carmela in that respect. And frankly, I think male viewers were frustrated that they didn't find her particularly attractive!
That all said, I agree that BB didn't necessarily depict many strong women in a favourable light, that outside of Skyler there wasn't a huge amount going on (although if you read the colour stuff, it's quite revealing when it comes to Marie). It's not hard to argue that The Sopranos did a more consistent job.
But there's a crux in there, in that The Sopranos was a very different kind of show. As others have said, the drive of the BB arc didn't exactly require character studies, as The Sopranos did.
All the shows mentioned so far (even Lost!) have one thing in common; they had a planned ending. BB got through its arc at a pretty rapid pace, while Sopranos spent much more time dwelling on characters, internalising to a degree that they dedicated entire episodes to dreams, but they could afford as they had so much more time to. More episodes, plus an average Sopranos episode is at least 10 minutes longer than BB if memory serves.
And The Sopranos wasn't flawless either. The first seasons were sometimes a little gimmicky, the Dr Melfi stuff became progressively forced and ridiculous.
Artistically it was in a different class, but more so in the latter stages (perhaps too much so for a wider audience, i.e. the Kevin Finnerty stuff and the ending). It probably is just about the greatest TV show ever conceived, along with The Wire which was all about the writing more so than the direction, which is what set Sopranos apart IMO, but I wouldn't use it to as any of that quality as a stick to beat Breaking Bad with.
As much as I loved Sopranos, I was more consistently in the mood to watch BB, maybe because it was more of a thriller and easier to get into (it's not hard to not be in the mood for an intense hour of Sopranos).
But then again my all time favourite is still Lost, so what do I know!
So a show is bad now because of a "lack of female roles..."
Christ I have heard it all now.
Skylier, Marie, Lidia, .....Jane, Andrea (Jesse's Ex's)
Main roles for them.
I dont understand why it needed more. Is it playing the sexiest angle or something?
they're all side characters, hollow. What's all those characters hopes and dreams? What do they want/need in their lives? They're all one dimensional characters there to give the more complex male characters a wife or some kind of object of attraction.
sopranos, mad men, the wire and boardwalk all have complex female characters who have their own unique relationships, hopes dreams and fears. The Wire and Boardwalk squeezed all that into 5 seasons whilst also giving the background on an entire city and it's politics both on the street and in the mayor's office whilst the other does it whilst spanning years of history. So to say there wasn't enough time in 5 seasons to do all that is lazy.
The thing with breaking bad is that it's not a subtle series at all, and maybe thats where my problem with it really lies.
Again, i'm not saying it's a "bad show". It's just overrated. Entertaining but overrated. I said to a friend recently that it's like some one whos never had steak before and has one at a wetherspoons and declares it "the best thing i've ever eaten."
The thing is, you're criticising Breaking Bad for not having well developed female characters, but Mad Men's lead character hasn't developed since half way through series one. Breaking Bad is the story of a man's realisation of his true self. He starts off as a seemingly timid, kind man who gets in over his head and gets into more and more difficult situations until he starts to become at home in the situations and take control. The interesting thing is that in the end it turns out that it's not that he's changed as a person but that's he's finally accepted who he's always been and that instead of him doing things he didn't want to do to support his family he's actually just been letting go and doing stuff that makes him feel powerful so he doesn't have to feel inadequate anymore. That's great character development and it's a rewarding arc. Don Draper is a man who drinks and puts his dick in stuff, often to the disappointment of others. The only time he develops is when we get a bit of backstory but his character doesn't change in the present day. I did enjoy Mad Men for a few series but in terms of central character development Breaking Bad has Mad Men beat hands down. Breaking Bad could have done with better female characters but the failure of Mad Men to develop a main character as something other than a focal point for others to develop around is more damaging I think
So a show is bad now because of a "lack of female roles..."
Christ I have heard it all now.
Skylier, Marie, Lidia, .....Jane, Andrea (Jesse's Ex's)
Main roles for them.
I dont understand why it needed more. Is it playing the sexiest angle or something?
they're all side characters, hollow. What's all those characters hopes and dreams? What do they want/need in their lives? They're all one dimensional characters there to give the more complex male characters a wife or some kind of object of attraction.
sopranos, mad men, the wire and boardwalk all have complex female characters who have their own unique relationships, hopes dreams and fears. The Wire and Boardwalk squeezed all that into 5 seasons whilst also giving the background on an entire city and it's politics both on the street and in the mayor's office whilst the other does it whilst spanning years of history. So to say there wasn't enough time in 5 seasons to do all that is lazy.
The thing with breaking bad is that it's not a subtle series at all, and maybe thats where my problem with it really lies.
Again, i'm not saying it's a "bad show". It's just overrated. Entertaining but overrated. I said to a friend recently that it's like some one whos never had steak before and has one at a wetherspoons and declares it "the best thing i've ever eaten."
The thing is, you're criticising Breaking Bad for not having well developed female characters, but Mad Men's lead character hasn't developed since half way through series one. Breaking Bad is the story of a man's realisation of his true self. He starts off as a seemingly timid, kind man who gets in over his head and gets into more and more difficult situations until he starts to become at home in the situations and take control. The interesting thing is that in the end it turns out that it's not that he's changed as a person but that's he's finally accepted who he's always been and that instead of him doing things he didn't want to do to support his family he's actually just been letting go and doing stuff that makes him feel powerful so he doesn't have to feel inadequate anymore. That's great character development and it's a rewarding arc. Don Draper is a man who drinks and puts his dick in stuff, often to the disappointment of others. The only time he develops is when we get a bit of backstory but his character doesn't change in the present day. I did enjoy Mad Men for a few series but in terms of central character development Breaking Bad has Mad Men beat hands down. Breaking Bad could have done with better female characters but the failure of Mad Men to develop a main character as something other than a focal point for others to develop around is more damaging I think
lolwut. Have you even watched the last 2 series of mad men? Don Draper's changed from this charismatic chauvinistic serial cheater to a broken man full of regret and hateful of who he really is. He's wanted to change and tried to but the core of his being is exactly the same. That's exactly what real life is like. People can't just change their personalities.
this is an amazing scene, he finally feels comfortable revealing who he really is and who the real "Don" is. But like everything he does, it's the right thing to do at the wrong time. He lets everyone in, and is rejected.
So a show is bad now because of a "lack of female roles..."
Christ I have heard it all now.
Skylier, Marie, Lidia, .....Jane, Andrea (Jesse's Ex's)
Main roles for them.
I dont understand why it needed more. Is it playing the sexiest angle or something?
they're all side characters, hollow. What's all those characters hopes and dreams? What do they want/need in their lives? They're all one dimensional characters there to give the more complex male characters a wife or some kind of object of attraction.
sopranos, mad men, the wire and boardwalk all have complex female characters who have their own unique relationships, hopes dreams and fears. The Wire and Boardwalk squeezed all that into 5 seasons whilst also giving the background on an entire city and it's politics both on the street and in the mayor's office whilst the other does it whilst spanning years of history. So to say there wasn't enough time in 5 seasons to do all that is lazy.
The thing with breaking bad is that it's not a subtle series at all, and maybe thats where my problem with it really lies.
Again, i'm not saying it's a "bad show". It's just overrated. Entertaining but overrated. I said to a friend recently that it's like some one whos never had steak before and has one at a wetherspoons and declares it "the best thing i've ever eaten."
The thing is, you're criticising Breaking Bad for not having well developed female characters, but Mad Men's lead character hasn't developed since half way through series one. Breaking Bad is the story of a man's realisation of his true self. He starts off as a seemingly timid, kind man who gets in over his head and gets into more and more difficult situations until he starts to become at home in the situations and take control. The interesting thing is that in the end it turns out that it's not that he's changed as a person but that's he's finally accepted who he's always been and that instead of him doing things he didn't want to do to support his family he's actually just been letting go and doing stuff that makes him feel powerful so he doesn't have to feel inadequate anymore. That's great character development and it's a rewarding arc. Don Draper is a man who drinks and puts his dick in stuff, often to the disappointment of others. The only time he develops is when we get a bit of backstory but his character doesn't change in the present day. I did enjoy Mad Men for a few series but in terms of central character development Breaking Bad has Mad Men beat hands down. Breaking Bad could have done with better female characters but the failure of Mad Men to develop a main character as something other than a focal point for others to develop around is more damaging I think
lolwut. Have you even watched the last 2 series of mad men? Don Draper's changed from this charismatic chauvinistic serial cheater to a broken man full of regret and hateful of who he really is. He's wanted to change and tried to but the core of his being is exactly the same. That's exactly what real life is like. People can't just change their personalities.
this is an amazing scene, he finally feels comfortable revealing who he really is and who the real "Don" is. But like everything he does, it's the right thing to do at the wrong time. He lets everyone in, and is rejected.
Walter White is the only half decent written character, I'll give you that. Jesse is alright and Walt Jnr is criminally underwritten imo.
lolwut? Jesus.. Anyway, that aside I've never really bought into Don's development even though I do like the character and the actor. For me it's been a case of Don following the same self destructive pattern which is interesting at first but repetitive to the point where I lost interest in seeing him repeat himself. The same stuff over and over for a brief seventh season pay off is not enough. The characters around him have had some great development though. None of these shows are perfect but I think Mad Men dropped off in its central requirement over time. Maybe it went on too long
Finally finished the box set .. all in all a terrific series .. BUT .. the ending (that is the final 2 episodes) seemed to me to be rushed, contrived, out of kilter with the general excellence of the rest of the five series and just non realistic, although the whole thing has been rather surreal .. still, all good things must come to an end ..
I couldn't believe the post above about men not fancying Skyler. Cor! I did. When she had on that tight-fitting top when the tax auditor was with Ted. Man alive. Big girl.
Finally finished the box set .. all in all a terrific series .. BUT .. the ending (that is the final 2 episodes) seemed to me to be rushed, contrived, out of kilter with the general excellence of the rest of the five series and just non realistic, although the whole thing has been rather surreal .. still, all good things must come to an end ..
I've got to disagree with that. I thought the ending was pretty much perfect and, if rumours of a further series are true, I'll actually be disappointed that it will detract from the earlier 'ending'.
She is an aquire taste, on one hand a tall, leggy, titty blonde is at the top of a lot of people's lists but she was such a stick in the mud about our Walter smashing out the best meth new mexico had ever tasted. And she put a lot of guilt trips on him.
I'd have let her buff my hot rod in her car valet anytime
Spin-off series Better Call Saul is now on Netflix. I was apprehensive about the idea but it's been getting really good reviews so I'm looking forward to watching it!!
I watched the first episode on a dodgy site on my lunch break. I think everyone is getting excited by the ending, until then it was a bit slow and boring, then went a bit lame. I'm sure it'll improve though, it's only the first episode obviously.
Episode 1 of Spin-off series Better call saul is now on UK Netflix. Not seen it yet, but I imagine it will be a lot more light-hearted than Breaking bad...........
Episode 1 of Spin-off series Better call saul is now on UK Netflix. Not seen it yet, but I imagine it will be a lot more light-hearted than Breaking bad...........
Watched the first episode, I like it so far. I always loved Saul from breaking bad, hopefully we can see the introduction of more characters from breaking bad over time... Is the next episode on Netflix tomorrow?(Tuesday) - if so might download it for the coach to The Valley.
Comments
While Walt slowly turned into Heisenberg and was either playing one or the other, Anna Gunn depicted a woman who was a combination of good and bad at all times. I found that fascinating. In TV you're either one or the other, and I think that made Skyler bemusing to the audience. She was ultimately darker of heart than many of us expected, not dissimilar to Carmela in that respect. And frankly, I think male viewers were frustrated that they didn't find her particularly attractive!
That all said, I agree that BB didn't necessarily depict many strong women in a favourable light, that outside of Skyler there wasn't a huge amount going on (although if you read the colour stuff, it's quite revealing when it comes to Marie). It's not hard to argue that The Sopranos did a more consistent job.
But there's a crux in there, in that The Sopranos was a very different kind of show. As others have said, the drive of the BB arc didn't exactly require character studies, as The Sopranos did.
All the shows mentioned so far (even Lost!) have one thing in common; they had a planned ending. BB got through its arc at a pretty rapid pace, while Sopranos spent much more time dwelling on characters, internalising to a degree that they dedicated entire episodes to dreams, but they could afford as they had so much more time to. More episodes, plus an average Sopranos episode is at least 10 minutes longer than BB if memory serves.
And The Sopranos wasn't flawless either. The first seasons were sometimes a little gimmicky, the Dr Melfi stuff became progressively forced and ridiculous.
Artistically it was in a different class, but more so in the latter stages (perhaps too much so for a wider audience, i.e. the Kevin Finnerty stuff and the ending). It probably is just about the greatest TV show ever conceived, along with The Wire which was all about the writing more so than the direction, which is what set Sopranos apart IMO, but I wouldn't use it to as any of that quality as a stick to beat Breaking Bad with.
As much as I loved Sopranos, I was more consistently in the mood to watch BB, maybe because it was more of a thriller and easier to get into (it's not hard to not be in the mood for an intense hour of Sopranos).
But then again my all time favourite is still Lost, so what do I know!
this is an amazing scene, he finally feels comfortable revealing who he really is and who the real "Don" is. But like everything he does, it's the right thing to do at the wrong time. He lets everyone in, and is rejected.
Compare that don with this one from the pilot.
Pretty different don't you think?
Walter White is the only half decent written character, I'll give you that. Jesse is alright and Walt Jnr is criminally underwritten imo.
I'd have let her buff my hot rod in her car valet anytime