I blame the original management and fans of the old Wimbledon for this situation. The Wimbledon fans should have supported there club more. Where did the 40k fans that went to wembley hide the rest of the time?
Sitting here shaking my head in disbelief at some of you who have no problem with some one buying a club and moving it 70 miles away. Kind of rubbish a palace fan would jabber on about. Fair enough if wankerman wanted to create a club for MK, he should form a club and put money in it so it can go up the leagues like every other football club in existance, and like AFC have done. If some one had bought CAFC and moved it away would you have a problem with it? Seemingly not, and you call yourselves football fans.
Sitting here shaking my head in disbelief at some of you who have no problem with some one buying a club and moving it 70 miles away. Kind of rubbish a palace fan would jabber on about. Fair enough if wankerman wanted to create a club for MK, he should form a club and put money in it so it can go up the leagues like every other football club in existance, and like AFC have done. If some one had bought CAFC and moved it away would you have a problem with it? Seemingly not, and you call yourselves football fans.
Kentaddick, I get the impression people are just arguing against the notion of AFC Wimbledon purely for the sake of arguing. How any real football fan can not see the whole thing as a travesty is pretty unbelievable.
Mronelung you continue to spout the same nonsense regarding the real Wimbledon, they were a small team in a small catchment area and had a low average attendance. So what, why does that mean the FA and the scum behind MK Dons should be allowed to move a club 70 miles north? In a counter to your pointless posts how many supporters do MK Dons actually have? I doubt there is much difference between the two, should the club now be relocated again?
It was never the case that Wimbledon fans didnt turn up, they just didnt have many. The club grew from a non league southern side to a Premier league club very quickly (in relative terms) and it was only in the 1990's and 2000's the younger generations started to support them. Plough lane was a very small ground and like us were forced to leave due to the fact it was falling down.
Merton council have now agreed that Wimbledon should move back to Merton and the site of the dog track is most likely. I wish them all the best in the future.
Sam Hamman didnt get his wish of keeping Wimbledon out of Merton!
I apologise for having different view to you spouting nonsense.
I still cant get my head around how some people think it is better to have a club fold completely than move 50 miles to try and save them. Obviously in an ideal world, they wouldnt have to move but the fact is they did.
Lasy year someone posted about AFC's treatment of Kingstonian so it is not like AFC are the moral guardians of the game - many non league clubs were happy to be rid of them as they went up the leagues.
You my friend are the reason Palace fans callus clowns.....YOU CLOWN!
I think you will find that you look the clown for insulting someone who has an opinion .
So says the biggest clown of all.
I tell you what Beds as you love them so much and live so close why don't you go watch them instead.
Why don't you worry about what your Palace mates think instead of what I think. You probably have more in common with them .
Well considering the term "Dons" derives from "Wimble-DON", I do find it odd that they wanted to keep that part of the name going. As a nickname, it actually means F-all to Milton Keynes.
I agree but still, it's MK Dons' choice, I don't think AFC Wimbledon have a right to interfere with it.
I didn't realise so many people were comfy with towns buying and lying there way into the Football League, rather then achieving it by merit.
As for Wimbledon's support prior to the FA decision, the core support was pretty consistant, and remains consistant now at AFC W. They were non league till the late 70s, the same as Wigan, who's core home support has never really grown.
Justifying the move by referring to Wimbledon's supporter base is, imho, ridiculous. Whenever I see what happened to them I think "there but for the grace of God....". The big difference between what happened to them and wat happened to us is that we were lucky to support a club whose owners had their hearts in the right place. I don't mean by that to poopoo the efforts of many who weren't owners and yet made a crucial contribution, but the history of AFC shows that there were also many Wimbledon supporters willing to do the same - the critical difference was the board.
Mronelung you continue to spout the same nonsense regarding the real Wimbledon, they were a small team in a small catchment area and had a low average attendance. So what, why does that mean the FA and the scum behind MK Dons should be allowed to move a club 70 miles north? In a counter to your pointless posts how many supporters do MK Dons actually have? I doubt there is much difference between the two, should the club now be relocated again?
It was never the case that Wimbledon fans didnt turn up, they just didnt have many. The club grew from a non league southern side to a Premier league club very quickly (in relative terms) and it was only in the 1990's and 2000's the younger generations started to support them. Plough lane was a very small ground and like us were forced to leave due to the fact it was falling down.
Merton council have now agreed that Wimbledon should move back to Merton and the site of the dog track is most likely. I wish them all the best in the future.
Sam Hamman didnt get his wish of keeping Wimbledon out of Merton!
I apologise for having different view to you spouting nonsense.
I still cant get my head around how some people think it is better to have a club fold completely than move 50 miles to try and save them. Obviously in an ideal world, they wouldnt have to move but the fact is they did.
Lasy year someone posted about AFC's treatment of Kingstonian so it is not like AFC are the moral guardians of the game - many non league clubs were happy to be rid of them as they went up the leagues.
You my friend are the reason Palace fans callus clowns.....YOU CLOWN!
I think you will find that you look the clown for insulting someone who has an opinion .
So says the biggest clown of all.
I tell you what Beds as you love them so much and live so close why don't you go watch them instead.
Why don't you worry about what your Palace mates think instead of what I think. You probably have more in common with them .
My Palace mates?
What a strange comment , I only know one bloke that's a Palace fan and aint spoke to him in about 5 years.
Lasy year someone posted about AFC's treatment of Kingstonian so it is not like AFC are the moral guardians of the game - many non league clubs were happy to be rid of them as they went up the leagues.
Then you might find this link of interest in correcting your view. Wimbledon didn't buy the lease to the ground until at least a year after Kingstonian had sold it themselves. And the article linked is the horse's mouth, the guy who set up the Kingstonian supporter's trust and watched it all happen.
Interestingly Winkelman was on TalkSport earlier. Might be crocodile tears of course, but he stated that he regretted what he'd done in the sense that he didn't then understand the intrinsic link between supporters and their club, and said he wouldn't do the same thing today.
He wasn't repentant of creating MK Dons, of course, and declined to drop the 'Dons' from the name when challenged to do so by AFC Wimbledon's chairman. Same argument about respecting the fans' emotional investment in the club. Frankly I doubt they've got more than a handful of Wimbledon's original supporters left so I'm not sure what that means.
Thanks for that link Rikofold - interesting reading from someone that closely involved. Like I said, recalled someone on here a year or so ago posting that non league clubs didnt like AFC.
I do stand by my comment that I dont think it would have been better to let Wimbledon fold than to relocate to MK. Some club must be better than no club. Obviously even that opinion is enough to be villified by some on here.
Fair enough, I think it's a difficult call to make in that dilemma - but actually I don't accept that the club would have folded without Winkelman.
In my lifetime, as far as I can remember, only one Football League club has gone out of business and Maidstone United had only been a League club for two or three seasons. That's not to say it would definitely have been avoided, but struggling to name more than one precedent in a century of Football League competition is no basis for assumption Wimbledon would have folded.
I blame the original management and fans of the old Wimbledon for this situation. The Wimbledon fans should have supported there club more. Where did the 40k fans that went to wembley hide the rest of the time?
The management/owners of the original Wimbledon could quite easily have forseen the rocky road ahead when they signed up to the premier league in 1992.
You could ask the same question about the 35k Charlton fans at Wembley in 1998 of course. It's a complete red herring. They were a non-League club with crowds in the 100s less than 2 decades earlier. They were never going to be commanding 40k crowds at home - how many clubs do that even now?
As for signing up to the Premiership, they were more successful there than we were but no club can sustain that position indefinitely with crowds of only 6-7k and no ground of their own with which to develop their support. I wonder if anyone foresaw 1992 football being transformed in the way it has been - it was dying back then.
Anyway, it's hardly the fans fault that Wimbledon were stolen by Winkelman to short cut a League club in Milton Keynes. I blame Winkelman and the outrageous decision by the FA Commission to rubber stamp it.
About MK Dons dropping the 'Dons' part of their name - surely if they are a completely new club, unrelated to the old Wimbledon, they can call themselves whatever they like? AFC Wimbledon have no right to insist it be changed.
Sitting here shaking my head in disbelief at some of you who have no problem with some one buying a club and moving it 70 miles away. Kind of rubbish a palace fan would jabber on about. Fair enough if wankerman wanted to create a club for MK, he should form a club and put money in it so it can go up the leagues like every other football club in existance, and like AFC have done. If some one had bought CAFC and moved it away would you have a problem with it? Seemingly not, and you call yourselves football fans.
Kentaddick, I get the impression people are just arguing against the notion of AFC Wimbledon purely for the sake of arguing. How any real football fan can not see the whole thing as a travesty is pretty unbelievable.
I agree it was a travesty and that the FA should not have let it happen..........BUT, I maintain that because they did and Wimbledon moved north to Milton Keynes, then MK Dons ARE Wimbledon.
Woolwich Arsenal moved north of the river and re-named themselves Arsenal (dropping the Woolwich as they were no longer in that area, the same as Wimbledon changed their name, adding in the MK bit and keeping the Dons bit)
It is simply a matter of distance - lots of clubs have moved grounds, MK dons just happebed to move counties a well
Mronelung you continue to spout the same nonsense regarding the real Wimbledon, they were a small team in a small catchment area and had a low average attendance. So what, why does that mean the FA and the scum behind MK Dons should be allowed to move a club 70 miles north? In a counter to your pointless posts how many supporters do MK Dons actually have? I doubt there is much difference between the two, should the club now be relocated again?
It was never the case that Wimbledon fans didnt turn up, they just didnt have many. The club grew from a non league southern side to a Premier league club very quickly (in relative terms) and it was only in the 1990's and 2000's the younger generations started to support them. Plough lane was a very small ground and like us were forced to leave due to the fact it was falling down.
Merton council have now agreed that Wimbledon should move back to Merton and the site of the dog track is most likely. I wish them all the best in the future.
Sam Hamman didnt get his wish of keeping Wimbledon out of Merton!
I apologise for having different view to you spouting nonsense.
I still cant get my head around how some people think it is better to have a club fold completely than move 50 miles to try and save them. Obviously in an ideal world, they wouldnt have to move but the fact is they did.
Lasy year someone posted about AFC's treatment of Kingstonian so it is not like AFC are the moral guardians of the game - many non league clubs were happy to be rid of them as they went up the leagues.
You my friend are the reason Palace fans callus clowns.....YOU CLOWN!
I think you will find that you look the clown for insulting someone who has an opinion .
So says the biggest clown of all.
I tell you what Beds as you love them so much and live so close why don't you go watch them instead.
Why don't you worry about what your Palace mates think instead of what I think. You probably have more in common with them .
My Palace mates?
What a strange comment , I only know one bloke that's a Palace fan and aint spoke to him in about 5 years.
And I live in Beds not Bucks . Stating i live near MK is a strange comment to make as well . Touché
Mronelung you continue to spout the same nonsense regarding the real Wimbledon, they were a small team in a small catchment area and had a low average attendance. So what, why does that mean the FA and the scum behind MK Dons should be allowed to move a club 70 miles north? In a counter to your pointless posts how many supporters do MK Dons actually have? I doubt there is much difference between the two, should the club now be relocated again?
It was never the case that Wimbledon fans didnt turn up, they just didnt have many. The club grew from a non league southern side to a Premier league club very quickly (in relative terms) and it was only in the 1990's and 2000's the younger generations started to support them. Plough lane was a very small ground and like us were forced to leave due to the fact it was falling down.
Merton council have now agreed that Wimbledon should move back to Merton and the site of the dog track is most likely. I wish them all the best in the future.
Sam Hamman didnt get his wish of keeping Wimbledon out of Merton!
I apologise for having different view to you spouting nonsense.
I still cant get my head around how some people think it is better to have a club fold completely than move 50 miles to try and save them. Obviously in an ideal world, they wouldnt have to move but the fact is they did.
Lasy year someone posted about AFC's treatment of Kingstonian so it is not like AFC are the moral guardians of the game - many non league clubs were happy to be rid of them as they went up the leagues.
You my friend are the reason Palace fans callus clowns.....YOU CLOWN!
I think you will find that you look the clown for insulting someone who has an opinion .
So says the biggest clown of all.
I tell you what Beds as you love them so much and live so close why don't you go watch them instead.
Why don't you worry about what your Palace mates think instead of what I think. You probably have more in common with them .
My Palace mates?
What a strange comment , I only know one bloke that's a Palace fan and aint spoke to him in about 5 years.
And I live in Beds not Bucks . Stating i live near MK is a strange comment to make as well . Touché
Well it's a lot nearer than Wimbledon.
You still haven't explained your bizarre "Palace friends"comment .
For the record, Wimbledon's FA Cup win is officially part of AFC Wimbledon's history, not MK Dons.
Although I agree that it shouldn't be part of MK's history, I also don't think it should be part of AFC's either. They were a newly formed club.
Wanderers FC won the FA Cup 5 times between 1872-78 before folding. As they were a London club, Maybe we should try and claim those honours and say that they were the 'prototype' for what is now known as Charlton?
For the record, Wimbledon's FA Cup win is officially part of AFC Wimbledon's history, not MK Dons.
Although I agree that it shouldn't be part of MK's history, I also don't think it should be part of AFC's either. They were a newly formed club.
Wanderers FC won the FA Cup 5 times between 1872-78 before folding. As they were a London club, Maybe we should try and claim those honours and say that they were the 'prototype' for what is now known as Charlton?
The only constants in a football club are its supporters and, to a slightly lesser extent, its location. Players, Management and ownership all change on an ongoing basis. The people who support AFC Wimbledon are largely the same people who supported Wimbledon FC when they won the FA Cup, and on that basis I would say that Wimbledon FC's previous honours belong to them.
For the record, Wimbledon's FA Cup win is officially part of AFC Wimbledon's history, not MK Dons.
Although I agree that it shouldn't be part of MK's history, I also don't think it should be part of AFC's either. They were a newly formed club.
Wanderers FC won the FA Cup 5 times between 1872-78 before folding. As they were a London club, Maybe we should try and claim those honours and say that they were the 'prototype' for what is now known as Charlton?
Wanderers FC have absolutely nothing to do with Charlton, is that the best you can do? A better comparison is imagining a scenario of TJ buying Charlton, selling the Valley to property developers and leaving all the fans behind to set up a new club in his own development in Worcester, calling it Worcester Valiants and claiming they won the cup in 1947.
Look, Winkelman only bought Wimbledon because he wanted to establish a club in Milton Keynes and didn't want to wait for that club to push up through the leagues. So he killed Wimbledon off and stole their Football League share.
Comparisons with Woolwich Arsenal's move in 1913 are apples and oranges, and it's worth pointing out that Wimbledon were formed at roughly the same time as Woolwich Arsenal, well before we were founded, and they were well over 100 years in existence before Winkelman decided they weren't worthy of a place in football any more.
AFC Wimbledon are the phoenix from the original club's ashes, raised by the Wimbledon FC supporters themselves, and to me that gives them every right to claim Wimbledon's history as their own.
Unless you think the lifeblood of a football club is no more than its current owners, in which case you're pretty close in mindset to Winkelman himself.
I wonder how many AFC Wimbledon fans actually went and watched the old WImbledon and how many are new fans they've acquired over the past few years.
They've probably acquired some new fans over the past few years, but so does every club in its local area.
My understanding is that AFC Wimbledon wasn't necessarily designed to be Wimbledon version 2, more to reinforce having a football club in the area that represented a number of the traditions of the previous club.
I wonder how many AFC Wimbledon fans actually went and watched the old WImbledon and how many are new fans they've acquired over the past few years.
They've probably acquired some new fans over the past few years, but so does every club in its local area.
My understanding is that AFC Wimbledon wasn't necessarily designed to be Wimbledon version 2, more to reinforce having a football club in the area that represented a number of the traditions of the previous club.
Interesting stuff about their formation in the history section of their official site. I think it implies a concession to the extinction of the club they knew and loved and starting a new one. I guess to be fair this does complicate the history question, but I think AFC Wimbledon were almost certainly formed to replace the old departed club for its supporters.
AFC Wimbledon is still controlled by its supporters via the one-fan-one-vote Dons Trust. The club was conceived on 27 May 2002 by Kris Stewart, Ivor Heller, Trevor Williams and Marc Jones, who were looking at how they could start anew while fellow campaigners were protesting in London’s Soho Square and waiting to hear whether the relocation of their club would be sanctioned. "We all felt that if the vote went against us, we would have to start another club," Heller said.
I do wonder how many old Wimbledon fans are now MK Dons supporters.
I wonder how many AFC Wimbledon fans actually went and watched the old WImbledon and how many are new fans they've acquired over the past few years.
They've probably acquired some new fans over the past few years, but so does every club in its local area.
My understanding is that AFC Wimbledon wasn't necessarily designed to be Wimbledon version 2, more to reinforce having a football club in the area that represented a number of the traditions of the previous club.
Interesting stuff about their formation in the history section of their official site. I think it implies a concession to the extinction of the club they knew and loved and starting a new one. I guess to be fair this does complicate the history question, but I think AFC Wimbledon were almost certainly formed to replace the old departed club for its supporters.
AFC Wimbledon is still controlled by its supporters via the one-fan-one-vote Dons Trust. The club was conceived on 27 May 2002 by Kris Stewart, Ivor Heller, Trevor Williams and Marc Jones, who were looking at how they could start anew while fellow campaigners were protesting in London’s Soho Square and waiting to hear whether the relocation of their club would be sanctioned. "We all felt that if the vote went against us, we would have to start another club," Heller said.
I do wonder how many old Wimbledon fans are now MK Dons supporters.
I know Kris pretty well, and his feeling is the majority of the old supporter base now supports AFCW, a few gave up on football, and a tiny minority lost their minds and go to MK.
Lasy year someone posted about AFC's treatment of Kingstonian so it is not like AFC are the moral guardians of the game - many non league clubs were happy to be rid of them as they went up the leagues.
Then you might find this link of interest in correcting your view. Wimbledon didn't buy the lease to the ground until at least a year after Kingstonian had sold it themselves. And the article linked is the horse's mouth, the guy who set up the Kingstonian supporter's trust and watched it all happen.
Interestingly Winkelman was on TalkSport earlier. Might be crocodile tears of course, but he stated that he regretted what he'd done in the sense that he didn't then understand the intrinsic link between supporters and their club, and said he wouldn't do the same thing today.
He wasn't repentant of creating MK Dons, of course, and declined to drop the 'Dons' from the name when challenged to do so by AFC Wimbledon's chairman. Same argument about respecting the fans' emotional investment in the club. Frankly I doubt they've got more than a handful of Wimbledon's original supporters left so I'm not sure what that means.
Thanks for that link Rikofold - interesting reading from someone that closely involved. Like I said, recalled someone on here a year or so ago posting that non league clubs didnt like AFC.
I do stand by my comment that I dont think it would have been better to let Wimbledon fold than to relocate to MK. Some club must be better than no club. Obviously even that opinion is enough to be villified by some on here.
Yeah that would probably have been me, after AFC caused numerous amounts of trouble at Bromley and a afew other gorunds. Morally don't agree with the MK Dons scenario... and you have to take your hat off to AFC for rebuilding and getting where they are... unfortunately they are an odious group of t00sers who I hope I never have the misfortunte to meet again... and I am looking forward to MK rattling double figures past them.
a mate of mine used to be a Wimbledon season ticket holder since he lived next door to neil sullivan, when MK Dons happened he switched to supporting tottenham... might again have something to do with sullivan signing for them!
Comments
As for Wimbledon's support prior to the FA decision, the core support was pretty consistant, and remains consistant now at AFC W. They were non league till the late 70s, the same as Wigan, who's core home support has never really grown.
What a strange comment , I only know one bloke that's a Palace fan and aint spoke to him in about 5 years.
In my lifetime, as far as I can remember, only one Football League club has gone out of business and Maidstone United had only been a League club for two or three seasons. That's not to say it would definitely have been avoided, but struggling to name more than one precedent in a century of Football League competition is no basis for assumption Wimbledon would have folded.
As for signing up to the Premiership, they were more successful there than we were but no club can sustain that position indefinitely with crowds of only 6-7k and no ground of their own with which to develop their support. I wonder if anyone foresaw 1992 football being transformed in the way it has been - it was dying back then.
Anyway, it's hardly the fans fault that Wimbledon were stolen by Winkelman to short cut a League club in Milton Keynes. I blame Winkelman and the outrageous decision by the FA Commission to rubber stamp it.
well that is just plain daft - how can you win a trophy before you existed ????
Woolwich Arsenal moved north of the river and re-named themselves Arsenal (dropping the Woolwich as they were no longer in that area, the same as Wimbledon changed their name, adding in the MK bit and keeping the Dons bit)
It is simply a matter of distance - lots of clubs have moved grounds, MK dons just happebed to move counties a well
Appalling this was allowed to happen
come on AFC Wimbledon!!!
stuff 'em!
You still haven't explained your bizarre "Palace friends"comment .
Wanderers FC won the FA Cup 5 times between 1872-78 before folding. As they were a London club, Maybe we should try and claim those honours and say that they were the 'prototype' for what is now known as Charlton?
Look, Winkelman only bought Wimbledon because he wanted to establish a club in Milton Keynes and didn't want to wait for that club to push up through the leagues. So he killed Wimbledon off and stole their Football League share.
Comparisons with Woolwich Arsenal's move in 1913 are apples and oranges, and it's worth pointing out that Wimbledon were formed at roughly the same time as Woolwich Arsenal, well before we were founded, and they were well over 100 years in existence before Winkelman decided they weren't worthy of a place in football any more.
AFC Wimbledon are the phoenix from the original club's ashes, raised by the Wimbledon FC supporters themselves, and to me that gives them every right to claim Wimbledon's history as their own.
Unless you think the lifeblood of a football club is no more than its current owners, in which case you're pretty close in mindset to Winkelman himself.
My understanding is that AFC Wimbledon wasn't necessarily designed to be Wimbledon version 2, more to reinforce having a football club in the area that represented a number of the traditions of the previous club.
AFC Wimbledon is still controlled by its supporters via the one-fan-one-vote Dons Trust. The club was conceived on 27 May 2002 by Kris Stewart, Ivor Heller, Trevor Williams and Marc Jones, who were looking at how they could start anew while fellow campaigners were protesting in London’s Soho Square and waiting to hear whether the relocation of their club would be sanctioned. "We all felt that if the vote went against us, we would have to start another club," Heller said.
I do wonder how many old Wimbledon fans are now MK Dons supporters.
Morally don't agree with the MK Dons scenario... and you have to take your hat off to AFC for rebuilding and getting where they are... unfortunately they are an odious group of t00sers who I hope I never have the misfortunte to meet again... and I am looking forward to MK rattling double figures past them.