Just seen that one landed smack in the middle of my junior school playground, one within 50 meters of both my parents and grandparents houses although they weren't living there at the time.
Sorry - shouldn't have brought the carpet bombing of German towns into this - silly point to make on this thread.
The bomb that destroyed 39 Glenesk Road may also have been later in the war, so I take my point back about the site not being accurate.
Apart from that - spot on! :-)
It was only recently that I heard that Malta had more bombs dropped on it than London as the Germans were trying to prevent it supplying Monty in the North Africa Campaign
Also, for the first time, the Luftwaffe found themselves up against a superbly organised modern air force which did not allow them to establish air superiority.
It was the complete Organisation of Fighter Command that defeated Goering, not just the aircraft.
Without the radar stations, the ground based spotters, the fighter stations and of course those brave men and women who managed the defence and rapid response to each attack we would have been rolled over.
Sorry - shouldn't have brought the carpet bombing of German towns into this - silly point to make on this thread.
The bomb that destroyed 39 Glenesk Road may also have been later in the war, so I take my point back about the site not being accurate.
Apart from that - spot on! :-)
It was only recently that I heard that Malta had more bombs dropped on it than London as the Germans were trying to prevent it supplying Monty in the North Africa Campaign
Not silly at all Addickted - it's a perfectly valid point to make.
I've just checked the Woolwich Incident Log for you for 39 Glenesk Road. It received a direct hit by a High Explosive Bomb on the night of 15th October 1940. The incident was reported at 23:10 and the comments column in the log ominously mentions "Mortuary Van required" so sadly there were fatalities involved here, although for some reason the log doesn't mention how many on this occasion.
Malta was the most bombed island for a period for exactly the reasons you mention - as well as earlier in the war being the naval base from where the Royal Navy was attacking Rommel's supply convoys to North Africa. The person that eventually stopped the air raids was the same Air Vice Marshal Keith Park, who had earlier been dubbed 'The Defender of London' during the Battle of Britain by the Germans, no less!
Remember it wasn't only London that suffered heavily in the Blitz.
The city centres of Coventry, Plymouth, Swansea and others were totally destroyed and many other towns severly damaged.
You're right of course Oggy, and I know that, in particular, the medieval centre of Coventry was virtually destroyed in one night. But, it does rankle me sometimes when people say "it wasn't just London you know".
London took the massive brunt of it night after night for month after month. I couldn't imagine the daily terror and feeling of sheer dread that would have given people. The mental torture.
So, although it really isn't a question of "our bombings were a lot more and sustained than your bombs" - they bloody were!
Sorry if that sounds irrational - it's just one of those little bug bears of mine.
It's a bit like when they say "Don't forget the land army - they performed a vital role and shouldn't be forgotten". Absolutely they did and their efforts are rightly acknowledged, except given the choice between that and being conscripted abroad to have some fuckers shoot at me and try to blow me up on a daily basis then I know what I'd rather have done! It doesn't really compare.
Ah yes, back to the map. Saw it mentioned on the news earlier and was looking forward to having a look.
Was a bit disappointed to be honest. It's still a cracking bit of work, but some areas you wouldn't expect have a cluster of reports (possibly the same bomb reported more than once) whereas other areas - like the docks - seem relatively bomb free. Probably because if you were there at the time all that was raining down on you the last thing you'd be thinking about is counting the number of bombs you'd doged!
I guess I'm splitting hairs a bit - still a great bit of work on a very important chapter in the history of this great city of ours.
Source: Aggregate Night Time Bomb Census 7th October 1940 to 6 June 1941 Fell between Oct. 7, 1940 and June 6, 1941 ...... nearest Bomb to my parents flat at Elliscombe road.... Saw this on tv this morning about the site.... great bit of research.
Sorry - shouldn't have brought the carpet bombing of German towns into this - silly point to make on this thread.
The bomb that destroyed 39 Glenesk Road may also have been later in the war, so I take my point back about the site not being accurate.
Apart from that - spot on! :-)
It was only recently that I heard that Malta had more bombs dropped on it than London as the Germans were trying to prevent it supplying Monty in the North Africa Campaign
I've just checked the Woolwich Incident Log for you for 39 Glenesk Road. It received a direct hit by a High Explosive Bomb on the night of 15th October 1940. The incident was reported at 23:10 and the comments column in the log ominously mentions "Mortuary Van required" so sadly there were fatalities involved here, although for some reason the log doesn't mention how many on this occasion.
Fascinating stuff Tom - thanks for that. I spent the first 18 years of my life living next door to a bungalow that used to be 39 Glenesk Road!
Things going round in circles and all that - my boy was born on 15th October, though 47 years later!
Source: Aggregate Night Time Bomb Census 7th October 1940 to 6 June 1941 Fell between Oct. 7, 1940 and June 6, 1941 ...... nearest Bomb to my parents flat at Elliscombe road.... Saw this on tv this morning about the site.... great bit of research.
Hi Ken - hope you well. Haven't forgotten about the Invicta Road thing - it will happen eventually but the charity are nigh on skint at the moment due to the current climate but they will get it together eventually. Re Elliscombe Road, the Greenwich Incident Log refers to 2 x Parachute Mines falling on the night of 19th April 1941 which I think are the ones mentioned on the website. The 19th April raid was an interesting one as it was laid on as a birthday present to Hitler, whose birthday was the following day - strange sort of birthday present!
...some areas you wouldn't expect have a cluster of reports...
Possibly another reason to the ones you put is just pot luck as to whether you're on the bomber's flightpath or not. It's not on the map, but here in Southend there were quite a few bombs dropped. I'm sure that as a town it's too small/insignificant to have been a deliberate target, but for a returning bomber wanting to lose weight and score one last hit on the way home it made a fair target. I wonder if such tactics played out across a smaller area of the city as well.
Re deliberate targets and the like Stig, London was bombed by two seperate Luftwaffe's, one commanded by Hugo Spearle who operated "tip and run" tactics so it was pot luck, if London was the target for Albert Kesslering's force each crew were given a specific target such as a railway juction, dock, bridge or a strategic building like Siemans Cable Works or the LT Coaling Station in Greenwich.
Bombsight is a cracking asset to London's wartime history and well done to those who have taken the time to do it, cant wait for the android ap, fellow East Stander Steve Hunnisett posts on here from time to time, he wrote an excellent article on SE7 in the Blitz for a website I ran 10 years or so go, he may be able to reproduce it here for us somewhere (sorry Steve, dont know your username).
There is a walk/chapter in "A Wander Around Wartime London" by some bloke called Clive Harris & Walworth based Barnet fan Neil Bright that deals with Greenwich in the war, very reasonably priced on Amazon ;-)
Re deliberate targets and the like Stig, London was bombed by two seperate Luftwaffe's, one commanded by Hugo Spearle who operated "tip and run" tactics so it was pot luck, if London was the target for Albert Kesslering's force each crew were given a specific target such as a railway juction, dock, bridge or a strategic building like Siemans Cable Works or the LT Coaling Station in Greenwich.
Bombsight is a cracking asset to London's wartime history and well done to those who have taken the time to do it, cant wait for the android ap, fellow East Stander Steve Hunnisett posts on here from time to time, he wrote an excellent article on SE7 in the Blitz for a website I ran 10 years or so go, he may be able to reproduce it here for us somewhere (sorry Steve, dont know your username).
There is a walk/chapter in "A Wander Around Wartime London" by some bloke called Clive Harris & Walworth based Barnet fan Neil Bright that deals with Greenwich in the war, very reasonably priced on Amazon ;-)
Hi Clive - Steve Hunnisett aka Tom Hovi here! I've had my ten penneth on this thread and thanks for the kind words. I've still got that article somewhere and I'll try and post it on my blog on the Blitzwalkers website at some point http://blitzwalkers.blogspot.co.uk/
As you already know Clive, Neil Bright is my partner in crime on the walks that I do, and he is very knowledgeable on the subject, especially the social history side of it.
Thanks Steve, I should have read the whole thread before posting! See you next Friday with Neil and Ritchie for dinner at that UJC? I think the promised android ap will be a useful tool when it comes out.
I will try and dig out the ARP log than mentions the V1 hitting the Rose of Denmark PH quite a few killed in that incident I think.
Hi Clive - yes, looking forward to the Guild dinner at the UJC - see you there - I'm taking Richie as my guest and Brighty will be there too.
I've just checked the ARP Log for the Rose of Denmark V-2 incident, which reads as follows: 8th February 1945 - 17:50 - Rear of Rose of Denmark P.H., LRR (Long Range Rocket) - 9 fatal casualties, 76 casualties to St Alfege's Hospital, 6 houses demolished in Troughton Road, 50 seriously damaged. Johnson & Phillips/GA Harvey factories damage limited to roofs and ceilings.
Not sure if this will work, but I've tried to attach a photo of the aftermath in Troughton Road.
Thanks Tom Hovi for imformation ref the v2 rocket attack on 8th feb 1945 our house 12 Rathmore road received blast damage around this time & we had to move out for 10 months staying with relatives in mayfair avenue in bexleyheath. This was the germans 2nd attempt ontp my mother for in july 1944 her house no 115 albert Rd North woolwich was completely destroyed by a buzz bomb fortunately she was in the garden air raid shelter and survived. I can remember playing on the troughton rd bombsite where the flats are now.
Thanks Tom Hovi for imformation ref the v2 rocket attack on 8th feb 1945 our house 12 Rathmore road received blast damage around this time & we had to move out for 10 months staying with relatives in mayfair avenue in bexleyheath. This was the germans 2nd attempt ontp my mother for in july 1944 her house no 115 albert Rd North woolwich was completely destroyed by a buzz bomb fortunately she was in the garden air raid shelter and survived. I can remember playing on the troughton rd bombsite where the flats are now.
I've just checked out the ARP Log for Albert Road as although on the other side of the River, it actually came under the Metropolitan Borough of Woolwich. Albert Road was hit by Buzz Bombs on two separate occasions. The first was on 16th June 1944, causing 9 fatal casualties and 26 serious injuries, and again on 8th July 1944 when a V-1 fell in the River causing blast damage to a wide area. I'd guess that the one that caused your Mum's house to be destroyed was the one in June. The fatal casualties names are listed in the Log - Mr & Mrs Davenport and their daughter, Maud Gurney, Sgt GR Howard, Mrs Howard, Mrs SJ Howard, Mary Howard (aged 6), Mrs L Jackson. Don't know if you recall your Mum talking about any of those names?
There's a WW2 photo of the Valley under Google images with a 'home guard' looking at the sky while a match is being played. Great picture of the Valley during the war. Haven't attached it here in case it's copyrighted. Google 'Charlton Athletic WW2'.
Thanks once again Tom Hovi for imformation on the V rockets attacks..I am sure that. my late mother told me the date. was july 1945 she was blown out of the shelter the other occupants who were park keepers & there families were killed.In those days North Woolwich was a large càtchment area for Charlton as it came under the borough of woolwich ( today it is in Newham) .
fellow East Stander Steve Hunnisett posts on here from time to time, he wrote an excellent article on SE7 in the Blitz for a website I ran 10 years or so go, he may be able to reproduce it here for us somewhere (sorry Steve, dont know your username).
Hi Clive - I've managed to find the article you mentioned and published it on my blog with a few updates and amendments.
I am sure that back in the early '80s I once saw a photo in Dartford Library of bomb damage to a house in Roseberry Gardens Dartford. Nothing shows on this map, but maybe it was outside the period shown.
Can anyone confirm if this did happen or if my memory is playing tricks.
I don't think the locations show every damaged house. There was a bomb site on the corner of Nadine Street and Church Lane which is not shown but was probably one of the three bombs shown clustered in Wellington Gardens. Bombs did not drop as single bombs but in clusters that spread over a wide area. Doubt the authorities listed the location of say six bombs separately but gave a single proximity location.
My cousin used to live in Dennetts Grove in New Cross and we used to play on a bomb site in his road but the nearest location on the map is Pepys Road. For every site identified there could probably be multiple house damaged over the immediate neighbourhood.
The bombsite app shows the locations where ordinance was dropped but not all the damage to houses.
A good alternative source is the LCC Map that was published by the cartographical society around 2000, local libraries may have a copy, I think they only printed 500 or so. Each street and house across London is colour coded to show the extent of the damage, it's fascinating, I have one but it's on loan to a student at the moment, @Tom Hovi May be able to help.
That said I'm not sure it goes out as far as Dartford.
I do have a cracking map of every V1 & V2 that struck Kent that shows how often Dartford was hit kindly given to me by @GlassHalfFull so will look on that for you
Comments
The bomb that destroyed 39 Glenesk Road may also have been later in the war, so I take my point back about the site not being accurate.
Apart from that - spot on! :-)
It was only recently that I heard that Malta had more bombs dropped on it than London as the Germans were trying to prevent it supplying Monty in the North Africa Campaign
Without the radar stations, the ground based spotters, the fighter stations and of course those brave men and women who managed the defence and rapid response to each attack we would have been rolled over.
I've just checked the Woolwich Incident Log for you for 39 Glenesk Road. It received a direct hit by a High Explosive Bomb on the night of 15th October 1940. The incident was reported at 23:10 and the comments column in the log ominously mentions "Mortuary Van required" so sadly there were fatalities involved here, although for some reason the log doesn't mention how many on this occasion.
Malta was the most bombed island for a period for exactly the reasons you mention - as well as earlier in the war being the naval base from where the Royal Navy was attacking Rommel's supply convoys to North Africa. The person that eventually stopped the air raids was the same Air Vice Marshal Keith Park, who had earlier been dubbed 'The Defender of London' during the Battle of Britain by the Germans, no less!
London took the massive brunt of it night after night for month after month. I couldn't imagine the daily terror and feeling of sheer dread that would have given people. The mental torture.
So, although it really isn't a question of "our bombings were a lot more and sustained than your bombs" - they bloody were!
Sorry if that sounds irrational - it's just one of those little bug bears of mine.
It's a bit like when they say "Don't forget the land army - they performed a vital role and shouldn't be forgotten". Absolutely they did and their efforts are rightly acknowledged, except given the choice between that and being conscripted abroad to have some fuckers shoot at me and try to blow me up on a daily basis then I know what I'd rather have done! It doesn't really compare.
I'm rambling now - and have not touched a drop!
Was a bit disappointed to be honest. It's still a cracking bit of work, but some areas you wouldn't expect have a cluster of reports (possibly the same bomb reported more than once) whereas other areas - like the docks - seem relatively bomb free. Probably because if you were there at the time all that was raining down on you the last thing you'd be thinking about is counting the number of bombs you'd doged!
I guess I'm splitting hairs a bit - still a great bit of work on a very important chapter in the history of this great city of ours.
Fell between Oct. 7, 1940 and June 6, 1941 ...... nearest Bomb to my parents flat at Elliscombe road....
Saw this on tv this morning about the site.... great bit of research.
Things going round in circles and all that - my boy was born on 15th October, though 47 years later!
London was bombed by two seperate Luftwaffe's, one commanded by Hugo Spearle who operated "tip and run" tactics so it was pot luck, if London was the target for Albert Kesslering's force each crew were given a specific target such as a railway juction, dock, bridge or a strategic building like Siemans Cable Works or the LT Coaling Station in Greenwich.
Bombsight is a cracking asset to London's wartime history and well done to those who have taken the time to do it, cant wait for the android ap, fellow East Stander Steve Hunnisett posts on here from time to time, he wrote an excellent article on SE7 in the Blitz for a website I ran 10 years or so go, he may be able to reproduce it here for us somewhere (sorry Steve, dont know your username).
There is a walk/chapter in "A Wander Around Wartime London" by some bloke called Clive Harris & Walworth based Barnet fan Neil Bright that deals with Greenwich in the war, very reasonably priced on Amazon ;-)
As you already know Clive, Neil Bright is my partner in crime on the walks that I do, and he is very knowledgeable on the subject, especially the social history side of it.
I will try and dig out the ARP log than mentions the V1 hitting the Rose of Denmark PH quite a few killed in that incident I think.
I've just checked the ARP Log for the Rose of Denmark V-2 incident, which reads as follows: 8th February 1945 - 17:50 - Rear of Rose of Denmark P.H., LRR (Long Range Rocket) - 9 fatal casualties, 76 casualties to St Alfege's Hospital, 6 houses demolished in Troughton Road, 50 seriously damaged. Johnson & Phillips/GA Harvey factories damage limited to roofs and ceilings.
Not sure if this will work, but I've tried to attach a photo of the aftermath in Troughton Road.
http://blitzwalkers.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/charlton-se7-london-suburb-at-war.html
I am sure that back in the early '80s I once saw a photo in Dartford Library of bomb damage to a house in Roseberry Gardens Dartford. Nothing shows on this map, but maybe it was outside the period shown.
Can anyone confirm if this did happen or if my memory is playing tricks.
My cousin used to live in Dennetts Grove in New Cross and we used to play on a bomb site in his road but the nearest location on the map is Pepys Road. For every site identified there could probably be multiple house damaged over the immediate neighbourhood.
A good alternative source is the LCC Map that was published by the cartographical society around 2000, local libraries may have a copy, I think they only printed 500 or so. Each street and house across London is colour coded to show the extent of the damage, it's fascinating, I have one but it's on loan to a student at the moment, @Tom Hovi May be able to help.
That said I'm not sure it goes out as far as Dartford.
I do have a cracking map of every V1 & V2 that struck Kent that shows how often Dartford was hit kindly given to me by @GlassHalfFull so will look on that for you
Clive