Truly despicable act by someone who was probably mentally ill. If I lived in the States I'd be wondering if anywhere was safe as this happened in a middle class suburb.
The trouble with the argument that everyone should be armed - which is what the US gun lobby will come out with - is that it makes no allowances for when people lose control. Everyone loses their temper at times, and if someone is in a blind rage they can do things they wouldn't normally. I think (I could be wrong) that those countries in Europe with wide-ranging gun ownership like Switzerland have quite high death by firearms rates as well. And the Swiss thing is connected to their national service - they're meant to keep a gun at home in case they're recalled to the Army. It means that if someone is suicidal or murderous and they have access to that gun, they can get on with it.
Wouldn't be surprised if violent computer games had a part in this as well. Got shot down,no pun intended,last time I mentioned that the violence some kids adhere themselves to on these things possibly play a part in their thought processes in life. And I stand by it.
I think you're probably right with that Carly. It seems inconceivable to me that someone could expose themselves to hours of violent and bloody images without becoming, at least a little, desensitised to violence. Particularly with regards to computer games where they are not just seeing those dreadful scenes but positively engaging with (frequently causing) them. The common argument against this runs along the lines that, "I play computer games and it hasn't made me any more violent/irrational/insensitive to others". The trouble with this argument though is that it isn't your normal everyday person that commits these terrible massacres. So, although it's quite conceivable that the vast majority of people could play these games with no discernible negative differences to their behaviour, that says nothing about its effects on the small proportion of damaged people who do commit such horrendous crimes.
It seems to me that there's been a great increase in the number of school shooting incidents in recent years, so I checked on wiki (not ideal I know, but it's a quick and easy source). From the reports listed there I was able to make the following table, and it's quite frightening:
Now, I know that there may be other reasons for the increase over time (better/wider reporting of recent incidents due to technology; less likely for authorities to cover up incidents resulting in zero fatalities) but it still seems to me that there's an alarming increase during the time that digital-killing has become the pass time of choice for so many people. The real trouble is that too many people have a vested interest in these games (either as players or as stakeholders in the businesses profiting from them) for anyone to make too much fuss about it.
I'm not arguing that it does, but I do think that such a correlation (and to be fair we haven't even properly shown that there is one) should be reason for further study to see if there is a causal link; especially when it's so easy to make such a link in theory.
I think there is a link between behaviour and these games
I am not saying its the cause of these incidents but there is a def link to behaviour issues and child reaction to having the games removed From them as punishment and the overal behaviour of the child within days of the games being taken away
We are quite strict with the amount of hrs my son spends playing these things
Interesting post Stig. Personally I don't agree though. Video games always seem to get used to fit the blame for something. Years ago all we heard about video games was that they were to blame for kids not going out and playing sport, now they are being blamed for people going out and reenacting what happens in violent games. I know it's a bit simplistic but surely if that were the case, kids would be going out and playing football more given the huge numbers that play FIFA?
I imagine years ago the same was said about horror books that were released and then after that films were blamed for causing kids to go out and commit whatever they have read or seen.
However, I do think there is a case to be made about de-sensitising in our culture. Film ratings being an obvious example as years ago using one F word would more than likely get a film an 18 rating we are all well aware now that violence and swearing in films is much higher than in years past.
Interesting post Stig. Personally I don't agree though. Video games always seem to get used to fit the blame for something. Years ago all we heard about video games was that they were to blame for kids not going out and playing sport, now they are being blamed for people going out and reenacting what happens in violent games. I know it's a bit simplistic but surely if that were the case, kids would be going out and playing football more given the huge numbers that play FIFA?
I imagine years ago the same was said about horror books that were released and then after that films were blamed for causing kids to go out and commit whatever they have read or seen.
However, I do think there is a case to be made about de-sensitising in our culture. Film ratings being an obvious example as years ago using one F word would more than likely get a film an 18 rating we are all well aware now that violence and swearing in films is much higher than in years past.
Kids playing football is on the increase.whether that's because of football console games I don't know.its just that they do it in clubs and sports centres instead of out in the park like we used to. Reason being ,ironically,that parents are scared for their childs safety what with all these violent game playing nutters on the loose with knives and guns!
I think there is a link between behaviour and these games
I am not saying its the cause of these incidents but there is a def link to behaviour issues and child reaction to having the games removed From them as punishment and the overal behaviour of the child within days of the games being taken away
We are quite strict with the amount of hrs my son spends playing these things
agree with that. My boy is not allowed violent games full stop but he does games called Roblox and Minecraft which to me seem very hypnotic. When he comes off of them he's very mouthy and moody.
Interesting post Stig. Personally I don't agree though. Video games always seem to get used to fit the blame for something. Years ago all we heard about video games was that they were to blame for kids not going out and playing sport, now they are being blamed for people going out and reenacting what happens in violent games. I know it's a bit simplistic but surely if that were the case, kids would be going out and playing football more given the huge numbers that play FIFA?
I imagine years ago the same was said about horror books that were released and then after that films were blamed for causing kids to go out and commit whatever they have read or seen.
However, I do think there is a case to be made about de-sensitising in our culture. Film ratings being an obvious example as years ago using one F word would more than likely get a film an 18 rating we are all well aware now that violence and swearing in films is much higher than in years past.
Kids playing football is on the increase.whether that's because of football console games I don't know.its just that they do it in clubs and sports centres instead of out in the park like we used to. Reason being ,ironically,that parents are scared for their childs safety what with all these violent game playing nutters on the loose with knives and guns!
But could be economic as well given it is much cheaper to go and kick a ball around than to buy video games.
I think there is a link between behaviour and these games
I am not saying its the cause of these incidents but there is a def link to behaviour issues and child reaction to having the games removed From them as punishment and the overal behaviour of the child within days of the games being taken away
We are quite strict with the amount of hrs my son spends playing these things
agree with that. My boy is not allowed violent games full stop but he does games called Roblox and Minecraft which to me seem very hypnotic. When he comes off of them he's very mouthy and moody.
Part of that is just being a teenager (I guess?) though - I used to get stroppy having to come.off Championship Manager 97/98!!
'How much worse does it have to get for people to wake up and to stop this nonsense and to keep our babies safe.'
'I do believe in gun ownership, I do believe in reasonable gun ownership'
He really sounds like he wants to change things but even he doesn't realise that they need to go a lot further and just change the 2nd Amendment. Why, oh why, do Americans think that owning a gun for defense is really going to help them defend themselves? It a lot easier to attack with a gun than defend. It's no use having a bloody gun at home if your children are getting shot at school (cinema, shopping centre etc).
Imagine going to school to pick up your child from school not knowing if he/she is alive or dead. What absolute horror!
If guns were legal here, every time it kicked off in a boozer it'd be like the wild west. Anyone who purports that a population is SAFER when guns can easily be legally obtained is either being deliberately disingenuous to further their own agenda, or (if they actually believe it), credulous to the point of childishness, a lunatic, or is as thick as a box of wet hair.
Terrible news but until the Yanks realise there ain't no injuns or outlaws any more, their stupid gun laws will remain.
No outlaws? Are you kidding?
You're reading it wrong. It's a comment on the fact that the world isn't like the wild west any more (or at least people in the civilised world don't see it that way)
Thanks for posting that limeygent. It's amazing what some people go through, I found it harrowing just reading that let alone living it.
One of the things that seems to always be overlooked, but is mentioned in the article, is the closing of mental homes over here, so that "troubled" people can be "mainstreamed". After these horrific incidents there are always comments from people that "knew something wasn't right". Perhaps the closing of these institutions is a contributing factor to the increase in these incidents? I think Americans also tend to "look the other way" more than people in The U.K., when behavior doesn't seem normal. I believe that too many kids are given behavior modifying drugs here, it seems that every other child is A.D.D., or A.D.H.D., or something, which gets the blame for everything that kids do wrong or can't do right. They are given a daily dose of some drug which puts them in a zombie-like compliant state, which seems to fix them, until they decide to not take the drugs any more, then many of them can become quite anti-social. There does seem to be a pattern, "nerdy loners", who are brilliant with computers, and roughly the same generation. I believe strongly that violent computer video games and violent movies could contribute to the violent acts these people commit, when they are already messed up. Meantime, there isn't any practical way to implement "gun control" here, as is suggested by so many. I have to hope that I'll never have to use my gun in self defense, but I"m prepared to if I have an intruder, as will most of my friends, all who have guns, and none of whom are members of the NRA.
I don't have enough knowledge to comment on the effect of violent video games, but a recent visit to my sister-in-law's convinced me that they do make children violent...not the content but the actual obsession. As a two year old my nephew was absolutely wonderful...lots of questions, easy to make laugh, a joy to be with. Two years later he now controls his parents with his obsession for video games. They cannot watch TV as every waking moment he is playing video games. He talks to them like they are dog shit...so bad was the visit we made the long journey home in atrocious weather rather than stay overnight and have to try to socialise with this brat screaming and cussing his parents non stop. Of course they are to blame as a two year old doesnt need to play video games, moreso his lazy parents should have interacted with him and not been so frigging (well all the other kids have games consuls) weak. I think the ever decreasing parenting skills are the root of a lot of what is wrong. Only my take on it.
It would be slightly more palatable if the US actually did have a right to bear arms but you have to remove certain words from the Constitution in order to get to that conclusion. Sadly, the genie has been out of the bottle on that one for a couple of centuries now and it ain't going back in anytime soon.
My wife has a friend from college who has 3 boys in that school, thankfully they all made it out, but how do you get over that as a community. It's amazing though, I see many of my wife's family (not all) on facebook who I consider caring and decent people who still don't believe guns should be completely banned in the US and they are not the problem. I believe that wholesale changes are a long way off over there. They will have to start gradually making it more difficult to purchase guns and ammunition. Getting rid of assault weapons is the first step, handguns being banned is many years away if ever, the right to defend themselves is so ingrained in their psyche.
It's quite shocking when we visit family over there how openly guns are displayed in sport/outdoors stores.
Comments
The trouble with the argument that everyone should be armed - which is what the US gun lobby will come out with - is that it makes no allowances for when people lose control. Everyone loses their temper at times, and if someone is in a blind rage they can do things they wouldn't normally. I think (I could be wrong) that those countries in Europe with wide-ranging gun ownership like Switzerland have quite high death by firearms rates as well. And the Swiss thing is connected to their national service - they're meant to keep a gun at home in case they're recalled to the Army. It means that if someone is suicidal or murderous and they have access to that gun, they can get on with it.
Scum pure scum
It seems to me that there's been a great increase in the number of school shooting incidents in recent years, so I checked on wiki (not ideal I know, but it's a quick and easy source). From the reports listed there I was able to make the following table, and it's quite frightening:
Now, I know that there may be other reasons for the increase over time (better/wider reporting of recent incidents due to technology; less likely for authorities to cover up incidents resulting in zero fatalities) but it still seems to me that there's an alarming increase during the time that digital-killing has become the pass time of choice for so many people. The real trouble is that too many people have a vested interest in these games (either as players or as stakeholders in the businesses profiting from them) for anyone to make too much fuss about it.
Sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shootings_in_the_United_States
I am not saying its the cause of these incidents but there is a def link to behaviour issues and child reaction to having the games removed From them as punishment and the overal behaviour of the child within days of the games being taken away
We are quite strict with the amount of hrs my son spends playing these things
I imagine years ago the same was said about horror books that were released and then after that films were blamed for causing kids to go out and commit whatever they have read or seen.
However, I do think there is a case to be made about de-sensitising in our culture. Film ratings being an obvious example as years ago using one F word would more than likely get a film an 18 rating we are all well aware now that violence and swearing in films is much higher than in years past.
Reason being ,ironically,that parents are scared for their childs safety what with all these violent game playing nutters on the loose with knives and guns!
My boy is not allowed violent games full stop but he does games called Roblox and Minecraft which to me seem very hypnotic. When he comes off of them he's very mouthy and moody.
If we had the same gun laws in the UK there would be a massive increase in murders.
As for violent video games I don't buy the argument that they have no effect. I have no idea why anyone wants to play them....
And I find exactly the same baldy
'How much worse does it have to get for people to wake up and to stop this nonsense and to keep our babies safe.'
'I do believe in gun ownership, I do believe in reasonable gun ownership'
He really sounds like he wants to change things but even he doesn't realise that they need to go a lot further and just change the 2nd Amendment. Why, oh why, do Americans think that owning a gun for defense is really going to help them defend themselves? It a lot easier to attack with a gun than defend. It's no use having a bloody gun at home if your children are getting shot at school (cinema, shopping centre etc).
Imagine going to school to pick up your child from school not knowing if he/she is alive or dead. What absolute horror!
I believe that too many kids are given behavior modifying drugs here, it seems that every other child is A.D.D., or A.D.H.D., or something, which gets the blame for everything that kids do wrong or can't do right. They are given a daily dose of some drug which puts them in a zombie-like compliant state, which seems to fix them, until they decide to not take the drugs any more, then many of them can become quite anti-social.
There does seem to be a pattern, "nerdy loners", who are brilliant with computers, and roughly the same generation. I believe strongly that violent computer video games and violent movies could contribute to the violent acts these people commit, when they are already messed up.
Meantime, there isn't any practical way to implement "gun control" here, as is suggested by so many. I have to hope that I'll never have to use my gun in self defense, but I"m prepared to if I have an intruder, as will most of my friends, all who have guns, and none of whom are members of the NRA.
Only she was armed. She had four guns including an assult rifle which her son killed her with and then when on to kill many more.
It's quite shocking when we visit family over there how openly guns are displayed in sport/outdoors stores.