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Cameron to offer Euro In/Out Poll

According to the wires tonight, UK Prime Minister David Cameron is to offer the people of Britain a referendum with a Yes or No as to remain within the European Union or not.
However this will be after he has re-negotiated the UK's membership to suit what he and his party think is correct and this vote will not be until the next Parliament.
So just a few hurdles to jump. Firstly to get the rest of the EU to let us pick the sultanas out of the bun and then for the Tories to win the next election. That would suggest that such a referendum is about as likely as the one he promised Britain over the Lisbon Treaty.
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    No point having a referendum until the public have been educated properly, of the pros and cons.

    The media report on the bad bits, but never focus on the good bits. Hence why it's thought to be bad.

    I'm on the fence to be fair.

    But it would be crazy to hold one, without the public being educated!
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    _nam11 said:

    No point having a referendum until the public have been educated properly, of the pros and cons.

    The media report on the bad bits, but never focus on the good bits. Hence why it's thought to be bad.

    I'm on the fence to be fair.

    But it would be crazy to hold one, without the public being educated!

    We hold a General Election every 4/5 years and the majority of people in this country are politically ignorant.
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    Riviera said:

    _nam11 said:

    No point having a referendum until the public have been educated properly, of the pros and cons.

    The media report on the bad bits, but never focus on the good bits. Hence why it's thought to be bad.

    I'm on the fence to be fair.

    But it would be crazy to hold one, without the public being educated!

    We hold a General Election every 4/5 years and the majority of people in this country are politically ignorant.
    Why do you believe this is?

    Due to every government breaking promises, so the public trust no one?

    Poor education? Or just simply ignorant?
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    _nam11 said:

    Riviera said:

    _nam11 said:

    No point having a referendum until the public have been educated properly, of the pros and cons.

    The media report on the bad bits, but never focus on the good bits. Hence why it's thought to be bad.

    I'm on the fence to be fair.

    But it would be crazy to hold one, without the public being educated!

    We hold a General Election every 4/5 years and the majority of people in this country are politically ignorant.
    Why do you believe this is?

    Due to every government breaking promises, so the public trust no one?

    Poor education? Or just simply ignorant?
    Both
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    edited January 2013
    To be honest the majority don't give a toss. After government after government of every different colour things never really get any better. You only have to look at the turnout for all the UK elections.
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    Got in to a very heated argument in the local tonight about this.
    Given my user name you might all well have guessed that I have experienced Europe from the other side.
    I would like to mirror what @_nam11 said. No point in offering this until the public is given a true picture of all the pros and cons (yes their are both and many of them)
    At this time the Sun and Daily Mail with the same terror stories doing the rounds over and over again, we stand no real chance of a fair and balanced referendum
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    Thankfully it wont happen as doubt the tories will win the election, as the general public can't be trusted to vote on something this important, due to the ignorance mentioned above.

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    Thankfully it wont happen as doubt the tories will win the election, as the general public can't be trusted to vote on something this important, due to the ignorance mentioned above.

    Sadly true.

    It surely won't be long before the main players in the EU just get so pissed off with the British and our constant demands to have 'opt outs' etc that they freeze us out anyway, leaving us as a marginal rather than central player.

    Cameron is totally f====d on this issue, he wants to be in Europe but has to keep the right-wing nutters and anti-Europeans happy too and that's an impossible task.

    There is no way that Britain will leave the EU, the Yanks want us to stay and be 'their' voice in the EU, if we drop out or become a junior member then the Yanks will switch their favors to the Germans and that will mean a massive, massive loss of international prestige for Britain.

    This issue was always going to tear the Tories apart again, it did for Major in the 1992-1997 parliament and was never properly resolved.
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    It's just Cameron trying to head off a leadership challenge. As Ormy says the issue will tear the Tories apart again, unless Cameron is brighter than he appears!
    But all this 'in out, in out, shake it all about' malarkey isn't doing the nation any favours and that is a worry IMO.
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    Some geezer called Billy Shakespeare wrote a play about this.

    It was called Much Ado About Nothing.

    This is Cameron hoping to kick "Europe" into the long grass and con those that are inclined to vote UKIP that the Tories can be trusted on the EU when there is overwhelming evidence that they cannot.

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    Thankfully it wont happen as doubt the tories will win the election

    Dave is clearly hoping that the option for a vote on the EU will be a vote winner for the Tories and will drag back some UKIP voters. To be honest, we should have a vote on the issue as the EU, and Britain's role in it, has changed immeasurably since we were last given the chance to vote. Sadly, as has been pointed out already, we (and I certainly include myself in that 'we') are not sufficiently educated to make an informed decision on such an important issue. That does not mean we should not have a vote though!





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    LenGlover said:

    Some geezer called Billy Shakespeare wrote a play about this.

    It was called Much Ado About Nothing.

    This is Cameron hoping to kick "Europe" into the long grass and con those that are inclined to vote UKIP that the Tories can be trusted on the EU when there is overwhelming evidence that they cannot.

    Spot on IMHO.

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    My concern and a very genuibne one is the Sun and Mail will spread their anti european vitriol, and the public will be 'duped'into voting no with out ther facts. I work for a very large Geerman owned company employing in excess of 20k staff in the UK......doubt they will stay here if we pull the plug....so another 20k looking for work? A potential scenario I would suggest!!
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    edited January 2013
    I wouldn't trust the modern general public to make a cup of tea without first having obtained clear instructions from Simon Cowell and Jordan.

    I include myself in that. I only know what I have read, heard in the media etc on the supposed pros and cos and how trustworthy and credible the arguments are I don't know. Would hope someone will lay out in sensible terms the pros and cons without any political spin or bias before the vote but cant see who would do that.
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    I wouldn't trust the modern general public to make a cup of tea without first having obtained clear instructions from Simon Cowell and Jordan.

    I include myself in that. I only know what I have read, heard in the media etc on the supposed pros and cos and how trustworthy and credible the arguments are I don't know. Would hope someone will lay out in sensible terms the pros and cons without any political spin or bias before the vote but cant see who would do that.

    Nobody knows what would happen.

    There are two reasons why we might want to stay in Europe.

    (1) We benefit from the ability to trade freely with the other EU members and are subject to the same rules and regulations as they are. This is massively important to us. We would be in a world of pain if it ends, genuinely catastrophic.

    (2) We get a say in what those rules and regulations are. We also benefit from being part of the largest trading block in the world when it comes to negotiated with the rest of the world.

    If we leave the EU that we lose (2). There's no real question about that. Sure we'll have some say but not as much.

    The question is, do we lose (1) as well. Eurosceptics say that we won't. Free trade benefits all parties who engage in it so the EU member states will not want to lose their ability to trade freely with us. They point to countries such as Switzerland and Norway who have free trade agreements with the EU. Europhiles say that there is a real danger that we will lose the ability to trade freely. Europhobes agree with Eurosceptics and also downplay just how much of a disaster it would be for the UK if we lost our ability to trade freely with the Euroblock.

    IMO, the overwhelming likelihood is that we would agree trade terms with the EU but it woudl be very much on their terms as they woudl have by far the better negotiating position. If we were unable to come to an arrangement it woudl be an absolute disaster way worse than anything we have suffered in the last decade. The period of uncertanty during any negotiations would be bad enough.

    OTOH, the benefits of leaving the EU are not insignificant. What we lose by no longer being a voice in a large and influential block of countries we gain by having our own voice. We regain control of our own policies in relation to a larg number of areas such as agricultural subsidies. We no longer have to pay into the EU.

    On balance, if there was a referendum tomorrow I would vote the stay in. For me the the small risk of a disaster together with the loss of collective strength and influence in the wider world outweighs the certainty of small fiscal gains and independence in policy making.



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    As my old grandad used to say 'We should get out of Europe and then bomb it'!
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    One of the biggest problems is this will just create massive uncertainty over the UKs economic and political future. Now if any foreign company wants to establish or increase their European presence they will think twice about investing here as their is a chance that the UK will vote in a couple of years to opt out of the EU and all of the associated benefits may be lost. The other European economies that we are competing with will exploit this to further undermine the UK's almost non-existent.

    Even if there needs to be a referendum on the subject, I'm not sure now is the time.
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    I wouldn't trust the modern general public to make a cup of tea without first having obtained clear instructions from Simon Cowell and Jordan.

    Me as well. It's far to complex a decision for the general public who will probably do what Stephen Fry/tabloids suggests depending on their class.

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    edited January 2013
    Referendum on Europe: 30% turnout of voters?

    Many of those won't or can't be bothered to understand the implications of what they are voting for.






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    Oggy Red said:

    Referendum on Europe: 30% turnout of voters?

    Many of those won't or can't be bothered to understand the implications of what they are voting for.






    No way, I think the turnout would be higher than for a general election.
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    edited January 2013
    And even at a General Election, many people blindly vote as if supporting their football team.
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    edited January 2013
    Oggy Red said:

    And even at a General Election, many people blindly vote as if supporting their football team.

    And this would be even worse, at least at a GE people have some notion of what they are voting for. In this country the EU debate is hijacked by the radicals who shout the loudest, so no one knows what the real facts are, this is our equivalent of America's gun debate.
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    I just wish we could have a referendum tomorrow to stop the bulgarians coming in.
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    Where would we go? Asia? Not for me...
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    Oggy Red said:

    And even at a General Election, many people blindly vote as if supporting their football team.

    Indeed, and all of the problems were the other side's fault!

    I predict a 60% turnout, which is probably higher than a general election!

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    edited January 2013
    Why have I just seen a message saying your comment will be posted after it has been approved????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I've now lost it.

    PISSED OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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    http://uk.news.yahoo.com/david-cameron-promises-eu-referendum-074726589--finance.html
    It is not until 2017..... and the idea that we can argue for better terms to stay in looks hopelessly optimistic, because all the EU countries will want to try and do that.
    Why should it take 4 years to get to this stage.........it has been a political topic for years. Not sure if this works in a national sense, as the uncertainty from foreign investment seems to be put a major doubt over our ability to be seperate from the EU. Is the UK able to go it alone these days?.
    I think we are probably too far involved already and in a few more years this looks very unrealistic.
    We seemed to have joined a club, but do not like the rules, and always want to opt out?.
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    LenGlover said:

    Why have I just seen a message saying your comment will be posted after it has been approved????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I've now lost it.

    PISSED OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Happened to me on successive days last weekend, Len.

    Offy put me right, though - he told me it served me right for being abusive lol

    24 hours later my lost post magically appeared at the bottom of the thread.
    Twice.

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    edited January 2013

    My concern and a very genuibne one is the Sun and Mail will spread their anti european vitriol, and the public will be 'duped'into voting no with out ther facts. I work for a very large Geerman owned company employing in excess of 20k staff in the UK......doubt they will stay here if we pull the plug....so another 20k looking for work? A potential scenario I would suggest!!

    If your company is making money they will stay in this country regardless of whether or not we remain in the EU.

    A favourite Europhile scare tactic is to refer to the "3 million jobs that depend on our membership of the EU."

    Neil Kinnock no less was forced to admit that this was a lie.


    http://www.freebritain.org.uk/_blog/Free_Britain/post/Lies_about_UK_trade_with_EU_on_Jeff_Randall_live_by_Ashley_Mote/
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