Speaking of farming here, I'm fairly sure our own farmers would struggle without the huge subsidies the EU give them.
I've heard this point made in a few media articles but just can't see the logic. We are net contributors to the budget, it's not the EU's money that is going to the farmers unless we are net beneficiaries. Just because we send it to the EU, they take their cut and happen to be the ones that give some out to British farmers doesn't make it EU money.
But from what I understand is that the farming subsidy is one of the areas we benefit from. Estimates I've seen show that British farmers receive £3bn a year. One estimate I've seen in how much the country would save from withdrawing from the EU would be £8bn a year. With the Government so keen to save money would they take £3bn straight out of that saving and give it directly to farmers or just rely on cheaper imports?
Ok it wouldn't be as straightforward to say that farmers would lose all of that money as the govt would surely provide some subsidy but it's definitely fair to say there would be huge cuts.
Fair enough, but the fact is that their isn't a strightforward shortfall of money as is often portrayed as part of the Pro Europe argument. It would be up to our government to either match, exceed or reduce the subsidies as they see fit from the national budget which would include the money saved from paying the EU that is kn turn 40% spent on agricultural subsidies.
I suspect that a realistic estimate of numbers of potential immigrants and possible social security requirements is easier to quantify from the 4 EFTA countries than the other 26 EU countries.
Len - the EFTA area includes all 26 EU states as well as the 4 EFTA only states - did you also see the bit about taking all the EU internal market rules and regulations as well.
I think it also worth pointing out how much success Cameron has had in negotiating changes to EU structures in the last 2 and a half years while he has been in power - i.e. practically zero - so I have my doubts how much he will achieve in the next 5 years while he is threatening to leave. I'm sure Merkel will point this out in her promised conversation.
Speaking of farming here, I'm fairly sure our own farmers would struggle without the huge subsidies the EU give them.
I've heard this point made in a few media articles but just can't see the logic. We are net contributors to the budget, it's not the EU's money that is going to the farmers unless we are net beneficiaries. Just because we send it to the EU, they take their cut and happen to be the ones that give some out to British farmers doesn't make it EU money.
But from what I understand is that the farming subsidy is one of the areas we benefit from. Estimates I've seen show that British farmers receive £3bn a year. One estimate I've seen in how much the country would save from withdrawing from the EU would be £8bn a year. With the Government so keen to save money would they take £3bn straight out of that saving and give it directly to farmers or just rely on cheaper imports?
Ok it wouldn't be as straightforward to say that farmers would lose all of that money as the govt would surely provide some subsidy but it's definitely fair to say there would be huge cuts.
Fair enough, but the fact is that their isn't a strightforward shortfall of money as is often portrayed as part of the Pro Europe argument. It would be up to our government to either match, exceed or reduce the subsidies as they see fit from the national budget which would include the money saved from paying the EU that is kn turn 40% spent on agricultural subsidies.
Agree but the farming subsidies where just part of my original post. My point being that yes, by withdrawing we would save all those payments to the EU but what a lot do not take into consideration is that that money will have to be spent elsewhere in our economy anyway. Given the rapid cuts this government has imposed could we really trust them to fully reinvest this saving back? I'm not so sure.
So where do the poor unwashed un educated learn the ins and outs
To make a fair a balanced decision
I like the Economist to give a balanced view. The Times isn't too bad nor is the FT. Every other paper is led eitehr by its own agenda or by it's core readership's.
This article in the Economist will tell you more about the pros and cons of leaving the EU than a year of reading the Sun or the Mirror.
So where do the poor unwashed un educated learn the ins and outs
To make a fair a balanced decision
I like the Economist to give a balanced view. The Times isn't too bad nor is the FT. Every other paper is led eitehr by its own agenda or by it's core readership's.
This article in the Economist will tell you more about the pros and cons of leaving the EU than a year of reading the Sun or the Mirror.
I used to care about politics but I don't anymore and don't vote. Labour's main policy is don't vote Conservative and Conservative's main policy is don't vote Labour.
When they are more concerned about running the country and less about what the opposition is doing I might start voting again. I have no doubt they are only running this referendum for popularity purposes.
Why don't you vote for a different party then other than the Lib Dems, Labour and Tories?
My concern and a very genuibne one is the Sun and Mail will spread their anti european vitriol, and the public will be 'duped'into voting no with out ther facts. I work for a very large Geerman owned company employing in excess of 20k staff in the UK......doubt they will stay here if we pull the plug....so another 20k looking for work? A potential scenario I would suggest!!
If they're making money as a company they'll stay here regardless of whether we're in or out.
Kinnock was reluctantly forced to admit that the famous "3 million jobs will be lost if we leave the EU" that keeps being banded about was so much hogwash.
Comments
Finally got a chance to read this ... excellent article which shows both sides
Kinnock was reluctantly forced to admit that the famous "3 million jobs will be lost if we leave the EU" that keeps being banded about was so much hogwash.
http://www.freebritain.org.uk/_blog/Free_Britain/post/Lies_about_UK_trade_with_EU_on_Jeff_Randall_live_by_Ashley_Mote/