I say let's start t Ahinking about saturday against Palace and leave this one be...sh1t happens . Let it go.
Yes we got mugged let it go its happend before and will again we have done the same to others away from home--thats football. This team is far better than the one parky took down so don't worry we will probably finish about 10th not bad for a 1st season back. As for the Wend player who put the ball over the JS stand ( l have never seen before) perhaps we should send him a trophy! .
Leaving Yann on was prolly to counteract the aerial bombardment of our area for set pieces, whilst still keeping a formation that had got us in front ...... not saying i agreed with it but i can see where SCP is coming from and Soapy you are right, it is a miracle he has got us to where we are with that lot
Leaving Yann on was prolly to counteract the aerial bombardment of our area for set pieces, whilst still keeping a formation that had got us in front ...... not saying i agreed with it but i can see where SCP is coming from and Soapy you are right, it is a miracle he has got us to where we are with that lot
Good point oohaah in terms of aerial ability from set pieces. A straight swap would have kept our formation at 4-5-1 still though.
Just seeing that ball keep coming back must have been frustrating for an already tired back four and midfield.
now the dust has settled can you please admit you were beaten by the better team and out smarted tactically by DJ, who stole the game from CP. If not carry on sucking on the lemons. You're a small side which is ok as your're a small club. Plucky, i believe is the preferred term in these parts.
Our manager let sheffield wednesday off the hook by making a tactical error by not making some obvious substitutions. A couple of quick players against llera, who when playing up the pitch is painfully exposed by his lack of pace, a right back who had a booking against him, and your are other centre back was dead slow as well. We would have finished off Sheff Weds.
That's why many of the contributions on here are so pissed off, because we weren't beaten by a better team but a worse team that got lucky as our manager, who I and most on here support 100% made a total tactical error. He'll learn, hopefully and next time in this situaton, we will close the game out. There was no tactical genius on the part of your manager, or great out thinking, just that our manager stuffed it up on this occasion.
You won, well done and all that. I would not draw any conclusions though and get ahead of yourself as to the fact that you will not be in a relegation scrap at the end of the season. Sheff Weds are the poorest footballing team, that I have seen Charlton face at the valley this year.
I'd rather have a Lita than a pint was a good chant though, (as grating as it was that a former player had scored a deflected winner).
Calmed down now i still cant believe we lost and powelly i apologise for aving a pop at you for not making substitutions on saturday ,lets get it out of our system by beating palace on saturday.
CP stuck with the 4-5-1 system used in the previous three league wins, and selected an unchanged team, both of which were understandable decisions, although it was obviously not our strongest team (Cort and Fuller were on the bench and would make it a stronger line-up). Dave Jones matched up and turned the game into a scrap, looking for a point but hoping to snatch a win. The usual tactics for a team struggling at the foot of the table and to be fair they hung in at 0-1, when they looked like buckling. Jones made the right adjustments with his substitutions, changed the pattern of play and forced the issue. Whereas CP reacted too late. We lost control of midfield in the last 20 minutes, the Wednesday B4 started to get the ball into the front players to feet, rather than hitting the channels, and they got the two goals late on. Sticking with 4-5-1 is understandable at 80 mins while still 1-0. However I was disappointed we didn't change at 1-1. CP and his coaching staff seem to need a five minute discussion before making a change, which is fair enough, that's how they operate. But sometimes you need to react quickly. Jones showed his experience today, CP is only 2 years into his career and still developing.
We have 39 points and need another 11 points from 17 games to be safe on 50 points, which is a comfortable situation. I'd like to see a return to 4-4-2 for the next few games. The extra striker provides a threat running in behind the opposition Centre Backs, which we don't have at present. If two of the three central midfielders aren't strong enough to play as a pair, then we need to get a stronger player in there before the window shuts.
By and large, CP has got his tactics right this year. Have a look at the league table. He has got it wrong on occasions, as happened in the last 20 minutes today. Sometimes it's about Improvisation & Adjustment during a game. However, the players also have to shape up and see out a game when 1-0 up going into the closing stages. Misplaced passes, failure to close down opponents, individual errors and negative play in the last 20 minutes, cost us this game.
We move on to the Nigel's. Will CP have enough trust in his CMs to play only two of them, with Fuller joining Kermorgant up front? I hope so.
I really don't agree that we should be changing formation from 451. We do not have the quality in midfield this division to play 442. We tried this earlier in the season and our midfield was consistantly overrun. The same formation with some fresh legs and a bit of pace would have done the trick on Saturday. Similar to Blackpool when Ainsley come on and toasted their right back. You had Lleara, playing far up the pitch, painfully exposed by his lack of pace and a right back on a booking that Wagstaff drew in the first half. The stage was set for Ainsley. That should have been the first change at 70 minutes followed by one 7 minutes later by Fuller and another 7 mins later by Dervite to protect the back 4 or BWP to replace Jackson or Pritchard.
It does concern me that Pritchard today on Skysports said that he didn't know how we lost. CP did not seem to display any thought about it either in the post match interview. I only hope that more post analysis will do it. It does worry me that the weaknesses of wednesday, their centre backs with lack of pace and the right back on a booking was not capitalised on.
I support Chris Powell 100 % but really the substitution and ingame tactical adjustments needs to be improved.
On a positive note, at least the game was in our hands. It was not as if we were outclassed by a superior opposition. As long as we learn lessons and do whats necessary to win. I have faith that Chris Powell will learn.
I think Chris is very aware of what he needs to do as a manager. I think he's starting to learn that his use of substitutions needs to be improved and I also think he now knows that sitting back for 30 minutes inviting the other team to come on is not the way to go. He's learning these things as he goes along and I'm convinced he recognises these and will find a way round it. Up to now he seems to have done a good job in learning from his mistakes and I see no reason for that to change. I think if any of us were to have a heart to heart with him about last Saturday's game he would admit he should have done it differently. He's learning and actually doing a bloody good job in my opinion. Now, if he's still doing these same things over and over again in, say, 6 months time, then we may have cause for concern.
I think Chris is very aware of what he needs to do as a manager. I think he's starting to learn that his use of substitutions needs to be improved and I also think he now knows that sitting back for 30 minutes inviting the other team to come on is not the way to go. He's learning these things as he goes along and I'm convinced he recognises these and will find a way round it. Up to now he seems to have done a good job in learning from his mistakes and I see no reason for that to change. I think if any of us were to have a heart to heart with him about last Saturday's game he would admit he should have done it differently. He's learning and actually doing a bloody good job in my opinion. Now, if he's still doing these same things over and over again in, say, 6 months time, then we may have cause for concern.
Absolutely Rob. But I think everyone on here has expressed their criticism in a constructive way and this is the right place to do it rather than in the stands.
I think a lot depends on what type of manager you are as to whether you use substitutes as a matter of routine or in necessity. We all know Curbs was frugal and late in making changes and SCP seems very similar. If you want to look at a master of substitutions then look at Mourhinho. If things are not working out he will very often make three changes at half time even. One other aspect of this particular discussion that seems to have been neglected is that when we were under constant pressure in the last 10 - 15 minutes I would have thought Fuller for Yann and then Dervite for Stephens would have if nothing else helped run down the clock a bit and break up the play whilst also satisfying shape and additional defence.
I know it's a bit late now. However, I just saw the goals again. What was Hamer doing for the 1st goal ???? Plenty said he just watched it go in, but I didn't read any comments to say that he actually went down on one knee for no apparent reason. If he'd moved a couple of feet to his left, he'd have caught the ball with ease :-(
I think a lot depends on what type of manager you are as to whether you use substitutes as a matter of routine or in necessity. We all know Curbs was frugal and late in making changes and SCP seems very similar. If you want to look at a master of substitutions then look at Mourhinho. If things are not working out he will very often make three changes at half time even. One other aspect of this particular discussion that seems to have been neglected is that when we were under constant pressure in the last 10 - 15 minutes I would have thought Fuller for Yann and then Dervite for Stephens would have if nothing else helped run down the clock a bit and break up the play whilst also satisfying shape and additional defence.
I agree with this, SCP is cautious and sometimes that works for you and on others against you. I agree with the point that Fuller on would have been a good move with 20 to go - but you can also see that we were leading and Sheffield didn't look like they had much of a clue how to break us down. Not unreasonable to suspect we would hold on. Should we hold on though against a poor side? 1-0 is always a dodgy lead.
I think having Powell will win us more points than we lose overall, so we just have to accept that is the way he is. No doubt if we get a goal against Palace on Saturday, we'll sit back - but that might work for us next time!
Chris Powell will get lots wrong, goes with the job. However, this wasn't the first time he tried to get to 90 without making a change. One week we were the only club out of te 92 who didn't make a change. Sir Alex, The special one ad Mr Wenger all change their team around and make changes . If they think its the way of things, then Chris has to learn from it. Against Whednesday the 10 year old sitting behind me could see it ffs. I love him ( SCP that is ) but I do worry sometimes.
Phew, thanks for clearing that up about the ten year old.
Sorry, I meant to say, totally agreed with SCP as we nearly did get to the end without using a sub. Why bring on these lazy bastards if they can't make the starting 11 in the first place. Smacked the big mouth 10 year old who sits behind me so hard I nearly broke my charm bracelet.
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I can't believe anyone would think otherwise.
Defend from the front, relieve pressure, get us playing up the pitch, run across the line so you give the player clearing the ball an option.....
Fuller or BWP could have ticked a few of those boxes that a tired Yann couldn't.
and Soapy you are right, it is a miracle he has got us to where we are with that lot
Just seeing that ball keep coming back must have been frustrating for an already tired back four and midfield.
That's why many of the contributions on here are so pissed off, because we weren't beaten by a better team but a worse team that got lucky as our manager, who I and most on here support 100% made a total tactical error. He'll learn, hopefully and next time in this situaton, we will close the game out. There was no tactical genius on the part of your manager, or great out thinking, just that our manager stuffed it up on this occasion.
You won, well done and all that. I would not draw any conclusions though and get ahead of yourself as to the fact that you will not be in a relegation scrap at the end of the season. Sheff Weds are the poorest footballing team, that I have seen Charlton face at the valley this year.
I'd rather have a Lita than a pint was a good chant though, (as grating as it was that a former player had scored a deflected winner).
It does concern me that Pritchard today on Skysports said that he didn't know how we lost. CP did not seem to display any thought about it either in the post match interview. I only hope that more post analysis will do it. It does worry me that the weaknesses of wednesday, their centre backs with lack of pace and the right back on a booking was not capitalised on.
I support Chris Powell 100 % but really the substitution and ingame tactical adjustments needs to be improved.
On a positive note, at least the game was in our hands. It was not as if we were outclassed by a superior opposition. As long as we learn lessons and do whats necessary to win. I have faith that Chris Powell will learn.
Onwards to Palace
Imagine how boring this forum would be, if we all had the same views???
You can disagree, for sure, that's the whole point!
But before typing, and being defensive, remember there is no "Correct" opinion, otherwise it would be an answer.
Roll on saturday....
However, I just saw the goals again.
What was Hamer doing for the 1st goal ????
Plenty said he just watched it go in, but I didn't read any comments to say that he actually went down on one knee for no apparent reason. If he'd moved a couple of feet to his left, he'd have caught the ball with ease :-(
I think having Powell will win us more points than we lose overall, so we just have to accept that is the way he is. No doubt if we get a goal against Palace on Saturday, we'll sit back - but that might work for us next time!
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