I would tend to trust medicine which submits itself to thorough peer review testing. So I think homeopathy is a load of bollocks which is making a few people very rich.
But in 2002 I started to develop really bad tennis elbow, of course from using a computer too much, bad posture, etc. None of the Western remedies worked. For four years I woke up to this pain. Finally I was recommended a Chinese doctor. The environment in which she operated was a bit of a shock, not much privacy, and she didn't speak much Czech, let alone English. At first it got worse, and I panicked a bit, but another patient listened to my dialogue with her and said " if I may give you some advice, don't try to think about it, just try to believe" . And sure enough, after a couple of months, the pain started to move down my arm, and two months more, it was gone. And has stayed gone. I am so bloody grateful.
The thing is, by that time I had managed to finally get my appointment with a remarkable world famous professor of physiotherapy who still, amazingly, practices, event though he is now 95. He doesn't mince his words. He said for example that chiropractic is one step up from witchcraft - because there is no thorough evidence that it works. But he respects Chinese thinking in his field, precisely because it is so old. It led me to the conclusion that the best for us would be if Chinese and Western medicine would get together more and share the knowledge, rather than trying to compete and do the other down.
Thought provoking post PA. Its true in my opinion that there is much to learn from some of the low tech approaches to medicine found in predominantly the eastern cultures. It's sad though that in this respect "western" medicine is like everything else in the capitalist world driven by huge multi nationals with no real interest I any discovery other than by a formulation of chemicals for which they can licence at a huge profit for years. Of course we have much to thank them for but the exclusion of traditional methods and under researched long tried and tested traditional medicine is one that warrants greater inspection. Like you PA I do not include Homeopathy as I believe it to be pure quackery.
People in Hong Kong have the 3rd highest life expectancy throughout the world. Japan are 1st, UK 23rd.
But - males at birth - in china life expectancy of 72 years; in the uk 78 years. Take into account they they have a better diet than us and don't get blitzed on booze, (not sure about smoking though) and don't have Scots in their statistics, I'd suggest you might be better sticking with conventional western health care!
you've never been to china have you?
They drink 50% rice wine like its water.
On a night out its also the done thing to drink till you puke, then drink some more, over and over.
People in Hong Kong have the 3rd highest life expectancy throughout the world. Japan are 1st, UK 23rd.
But - males at birth - in china life expectancy of 72 years; in the uk 78 years. Take into account they they have a better diet than us and don't get blitzed on booze, (not sure about smoking though) and don't have Scots in their statistics, I'd suggest you might be better sticking with conventional western health care!
you've never been to china have you?
They drink 50% rice wine like its water.
On a night out its also the done thing to drink till you puke, then drink some more, over and over.
People in Hong Kong have the 3rd highest life expectancy throughout the world. Japan are 1st, UK 23rd.
But - males at birth - in china life expectancy of 72 years; in the uk 78 years. Take into account they they have a better diet than us and don't get blitzed on booze, (not sure about smoking though) and don't have Scots in their statistics, I'd suggest you might be better sticking with conventional western health care!
you've never been to china have you?
They drink 50% rice wine like its water.
On a night out its also the done thing to drink till you puke, then drink some more, over and over.
They smoke like chimneys, don't they Stu? especially in the poorer classes?
Anyway, alternative medicine is bollocks, and homeopathy is the most ludicrous concept in the history of humanity. Anyone getting better after non-medicinal 'remedies' is experiencing either the placebo effect or simply getting better through the passing of time.
If you're offered a cig (happens all the bloody time) refusing is an insult, even if you don't smoke.
The passing of time thing is spot on, people always tell me TCM works, it just takes longer, for example, the treatment for a cold should take no longer than a week.......
People in Hong Kong have the 3rd highest life expectancy throughout the world. Japan are 1st, UK 23rd.
But - males at birth - in china life expectancy of 72 years; in the uk 78 years. Take into account they they have a better diet than us and don't get blitzed on booze, (not sure about smoking though) and don't have Scots in their statistics, I'd suggest you might be better sticking with conventional western health care!
you've never been to china have you?
They drink 50% rice wine like its water.
On a night out its also the done thing to drink till you puke, then drink some more, over and over.
They smoke like chimneys, don't they Stu? especially in the poorer classes?
Anyway, alternative medicine is bollocks, and homeopathy is the most ludicrous concept in the history of humanity. Anyone getting better after non-medicinal 'remedies' is experiencing either the placebo effect or simply getting better through the passing of time.
What is your definition of alternaive medicine though ?
I boycott everything chinese. their animal abuse is disgusting, bear bile farms and the near extinction of the black rhino because of some ridiculously stupid notion that the horn of the rhino contains some cure for piles or some other pathetic ailment? kill them all I say.
Although give em 5 beers and they're done. Where as most other lowai I know can't drink bijou at all.
Lol so true, I went to college with a Chinese lad, good mate. After about four cans he'd slump in a chair and physically go a reddish purpley colour. One of the strangest yet funniest things I've ever seen.
The notion of Western methods 'versus' Chinese methods is wrong-headed. There is nothing particularly Western about the scientific method. It's just the best way humans have come up with to test whether stuff works or not. If Chinese, or any 'alternative' medicine passed the test then it would be mainstream medicine. But it doesn't. Being 'ancient' doesn't make Chines medicine right, just primitive. Primitive as in 'this rhino horn looks like a big todger, so if i eat it I will get a big todger'.
People in Hong Kong have the 3rd highest life expectancy throughout the world. Japan are 1st, UK 23rd.
But - males at birth - in china life expectancy of 72 years; in the uk 78 years. Take into account they they have a better diet than us and don't get blitzed on booze, (not sure about smoking though) and don't have Scots in their statistics, I'd suggest you might be better sticking with conventional western health care!
you've never been to china have you?
They drink 50% rice wine like its water.
On a night out its also the done thing to drink till you puke, then drink some more, over and over.
They smoke like chimneys, don't they Stu? especially in the poorer classes?
Anyway, alternative medicine is bollocks, and homeopathy is the most ludicrous concept in the history of humanity. Anyone getting better after non-medicinal 'remedies' is experiencing either the placebo effect or simply getting better through the passing of time.
What is your definition of alternaive medicine though ?
Exactly...
Homeopathy practitioners consistently refuse to submit their work for peer -reviewed tests. My physiotherapy professor says the same is true of chiropractic.
The body of evidence that shows acupuncture is effective in various procedures is building all the time. It increasingly seems that physiotherapy in particular would benefit from knowledge derived from Asian medicines.
Another thing that has amazed me is the benefit from doing pilates. Not only did it straighten out my posture, but almost certainly it is the reason why I don't have low level pain in my knees which I had had for several years, presumably because my better posture means I put less pressure on them.
My physio professor approves of all these "alternative' (?) approaches because he has been on a lifelong mission to stop laziness in modern Western medicine in his area which in his typically graphic words means people are 'needlessly cut up'.
Because Hocus Pocus does not work... Suggesting otherwise is dense.
This is fact, but not all what is classed as hocus pocus is in fact hocus pocus. The very basis of modern pharmacology has its roots it herbalism. It has been built on and improved but to suggest that all traditional remedies are hocus pocus is wrong. I'm not talking about homeopathy or powdered rhino horn here but I suspect that a good few Chinese herbal remedies will have much to offer if only as a basis for a modern method of getting something better. There is still much serious research by pharmacologists being carried out in the Amazon rainforest where many of the treatments of the future are waiting to be discovered.
Although give em 5 beers and they're done. Where as most other lowai I know can't drink bijou at all.
Lol so true, I went to college with a Chinese lad, good mate. After about four cans he'd slump in a chair and physically go a reddish purpley colour. One of the strangest yet funniest things I've ever seen.
I garuntee you'd be spewing like crazy after a cup or two of rice wine, the stuff is like rocket fuel but they drink it like water.
Someone did once explain to me why but I was pretty drunk at the time (maybe 3-4 cups in lol) I'll have to ask them again once im back in china.
Because Hocus Pocus does not work... Suggesting otherwise is dense.
This is fact, but not all what is classed as hocus pocus is in fact hocus pocus. The very basis of modern pharmacology has its roots it herbalism. It has been built on and improved but to suggest that all traditional remedies are hocus pocus is wrong. I'm not talking about homeopathy or powdered rhino horn here but I suspect that a good few Chinese herbal remedies will have much to offer if only as a basis for a modern method of getting something better. There is still much serious research by pharmacologists being carried out in the Amazon rainforest where many of the treatments of the future are waiting to be discovered.
Yes and no. With the money pharma companies spend each year on research, any intrinsic, provable value in Chinese medicines has already long since been scooped up and put into patentable drug form.
What pharmaceutical companies tell you about researching in the Amazon rainforest, the deep sea trenches and anywhere else is largely bullshit for marketing brochures. Yes, they DO research in those places, but the vast majority of 'research' in pharmacology is in how to make minute changes to patented compounds so they can extend those patents, how to steal other drug companies' patented products and how to get round providing adequate trial data to regulatory bodies.
You just need to do the maths: if, say, tiger bollocks made men more potent in the sack, don't you think that Pfizer, GSK or any of the other big drug companies wouldn't have found a way to buy up every single tiger bollock that ever existed and grind it up to sell to desperate men the world over for ten times the price of gold? Why they'd be breeding them in farms all over just to get more supply.
Modern pharmacology does indeed have part of its roots in herbalism (amongst other things). But every 'traditional' remedy has already been looked at hundreds of times and, if it works, has been used in 'real' medicine.
I think we should seriously look at chucking 'homeopathy' out of the discussion here. Whilst I'll readily admit that there are some 'traditional' (Chinese, Western, Amerindian or whatever) remedies that work (and are therefore the basis for actual drugs), homeopathy is the most laughable bullshit I've ever heard. It's like comparing Creationism to the theory of Evolution. One is an actual, viable, demonstrable theory. The other is the deranged rambling of imbeciles.
Agree with that Leroy although we haven't yet come with a definitive answer yet as to what's alternative and quackery like homeopathy or still fringe and yet has merit. Acupuncture is still far from mainstream in the west yet once you get past the jargon of energy lines etc it has been used very successfully and is still not fully understood. Similarly hypnotherapy is still viewed with huge scepticism by many yet fulfils a very useful part of modern medicine for example where patients can undergo even open heart surgery without anaesthetic. Perhaps not regularly in the west but certainly in Russia. There is still much to learn about the human body and what works and why.
Agree with that Leroy although we haven't yet come with a definitive answer yet as to what's alternative and quackery like homeopathy or still fringe and yet has merit. Acupuncture is still far from mainstream in the west yet once you get past the jargon of energy lines etc it has been used very successfully and is still not fully understood. Similarly hypnotherapy is still viewed with huge scepticism by many yet fulfils a very useful part of modern medicine for example where patients can undergo even open heart surgery without anaesthetic. Perhaps not regularly in the west but certainly in Russia. There is still much to learn about the human body and what works and why.
I believe the term is known as "placebo effect." There is no doubt that the placebo effect is a genuine real effect, but pretty much all of these forms of "alternative medicine" revolve around that same thing.
Agree with that Leroy although we haven't yet come with a definitive answer yet as to what's alternative and quackery like homeopathy or still fringe and yet has merit. Acupuncture is still far from mainstream in the west yet once you get past the jargon of energy lines etc it has been used very successfully and is still not fully understood. Similarly hypnotherapy is still viewed with huge scepticism by many yet fulfils a very useful part of modern medicine for example where patients can undergo even open heart surgery without anaesthetic. Perhaps not regularly in the west but certainly in Russia. There is still much to learn about the human body and what works and why.
I believe the term is known as "placebo effect." There is no doubt that the placebo effect is a genuine real effect, but pretty much all of these forms of "alternative medicine" revolve around that same thing.
People in Hong Kong have the 3rd highest life expectancy throughout the world. Japan are 1st, UK 23rd.
But - males at birth - in china life expectancy of 72 years; in the uk 78 years. Take into account they they have a better diet than us and don't get blitzed on booze, (not sure about smoking though) and don't have Scots in their statistics, I'd suggest you might be better sticking with conventional western health care!
you've never been to china have you?
Not unless you include HK and Macau, no. Mind you, that was back when they were being properly governed.....
Agree with that Leroy although we haven't yet come with a definitive answer yet as to what's alternative and quackery like homeopathy or still fringe and yet has merit. Acupuncture is still far from mainstream in the west yet once you get past the jargon of energy lines etc it has been used very successfully and is still not fully understood. Similarly hypnotherapy is still viewed with huge scepticism by many yet fulfils a very useful part of modern medicine for example where patients can undergo even open heart surgery without anaesthetic. Perhaps not regularly in the west but certainly in Russia. There is still much to learn about the human body and what works and why.
I believe the term is known as "placebo effect." There is no doubt that the placebo effect is a genuine real effect, but pretty much all of these forms of "alternative medicine" revolve around that same thing.
The placebo effect keeps many people in a job...
Just so that I am clear, are you suggesting that the combination of acupuncture, acupressure and herbal medicines, which got rid of my RSI when four years of different Western origin procedures failed to do so, was simply a placebo effect? And this on somebody who was pretty sceptical about the whole thing, especially when I saw the very makeshift nature of the doctor's surgery, which seemd designed to evoke backstreet Beijing?
And if so, might I enquire as to your professional qualification for making this assertion?
I would say there is a very strong chance of that, yes. And I would hazard a guess that my professional qualifications are equal or superior to a lot of the "alternative medicine professionals"
Although if people believe that having needles put in them and drinking tea will cure them, then please feel free to come round to mine, I will be more than willing to rebrand my PG Tips into a herbal infusion which will cure almost anything, at a price.
The placebo effect isn't to be looked down on, if these people can generate a placebo effect that cures people, that is obviously a good thing. Generally the more invasive the treatment the stronger the placebo/expectation effects.
Although if you can show me a decent study which proves that acupuncture and various other homeopathic nonsenses are anything other than a strong placebo effect I will eat my words. :-)
Placebo effect is well documented and is real. I doubt that having major surgery under hypnosis would fall into this category or acupuncture for that matter. You might just as well say that the curative effect of any drug you care to name relies on the same phenomena. As for your professional qualifications. Are you a medical man then sir ?
I boycott everything chinese. their animal abuse is disgusting, bear bile farms and the near extinction of the black rhino because of some ridiculously stupid notion that the horn of the rhino contains some cure for piles or some other pathetic ailment? kill them all I say.
I also understand, as a layman, the placebo effect. I'm a big fan of Ben Goldacre and his Bad Science book and articles.
In my case, to get rid of RSI I went in for a whole range of "western" treatments. Starting with the laziest one, the cortisone shot, then the anti-inflammatory drugs, then some machine which was firing some kind of ultrasonic waves at the spot, then physiotherapy complemented by ultrasound and some other machine.
None of them worked, and by the heaven I wanted them all to.
Then I went to the Chinese doctor, I was sceptical beforehand, even more sceptical when I saw the place and how she works, and when after four weeks the pain was getting worse, I wondered if I had made some awful mistake.
And then it started to work, slowly. No other alterations to my life, other than the ones she prescribed. And the problem has never returned to any worrying degree, even though I still work on the computer a lot for a living.
Why did the placebo effect kick in just for the Chinese treatment and not for the 6-7 other types of treatment?
BTW acupuncture has nothing at all to do with homeopathy, which has a very specific and relatively recent origin. A mouthy German doctor in the 18th century if I recall rightly.
RSI can last days, weeks, months or years. The condition isn't well-known, and several treatments are often prescribed in the hope that one or a combination of them will work. Often, RSI (a horribly painful affliction - my cousin has CTS (closely related) which left him unable to work for three years (he's a mechanic)) 'spontaneously' resolves of itself - or lapses into 'hibernation', to reawaken months or years in the future.
I suspect what's happened is that either your condition has resolved itself (hopefully for good!), or that one or more of the treatments you had which have proven to demonstrate at least some effect (note - NOT acupuncture or herbal medicines, which have never been proven to have anything other than a placebo effect) has worked.
What you're doing is confusing correlation with cause and effect. This is the same thing that led to the MMR hysteria. In your situation, it's not a matter of life and death. Sadly, there are thousnads of cases where someone has foregone treatment that very well could have saved - or at least prolonged - their life for quack cures.
As for the last statement - as an intelligent man, I can't believe you would relate something's perceived effectiveness to the length of time it's been around. Homeopathy was 'invented' whilst 'real' medicine still consisted largely of bloodletting. Knowing that doesn't give it any more credibility. Similarly, just because acupuncture has been around for a thousand years (or whatever) doesn't make it any more likely to 'work' than magic or voodoo. Studies indicate that 'sham' acupuncture has almost as much of an effect on chronic pain as 'real' acupuncture. So much so that the difference between test groups showed differences of no statistical significance
RSI can last days, weeks, months or years. The condition isn't well-known, and several treatments are often prescribed in the hope that one or a combination of them will work. Often, RSI (a horribly painful affliction - my cousin has CTS (closely related) which left him unable to work for three years (he's a mechanic)) 'spontaneously' resolves of itself - or lapses into 'hibernation', to reawaken months or years in the future.
I suspect what's happened is that either your condition has resolved itself (hopefully for good!), or that one or more of the treatments you had which have proven to demonstrate at least some effect (note - NOT acupuncture or herbal medicines, which have never been proven to have anything other than a placebo effect) has worked.
What you're doing is confusing correlation with cause and effect. This is the same thing that led to the MMR hysteria. In your situation, it's not a matter of life and death. Sadly, there are thousnads of cases where someone has foregone treatment that very well could have saved - or at least prolonged - their life for quack cures.
As for the last statement - as an intelligent man, I can't believe you would relate something's perceived effectiveness to the length of time it's been around. Homeopathy was 'invented' whilst 'real' medicine still consisted largely of bloodletting. Knowing that doesn't give it any more credibility. Similarly, just because acupuncture has been around for a thousand years (or whatever) doesn't make it any more likely to 'work' than magic or voodoo. Studies indicate that 'sham' acupuncture has almost as much of an effect on chronic pain as 'real' acupuncture. So much so that the difference between test groups showed differences of no statistical significance
This is precisely it.
When I said "more qualified than the Chinese doctor" I was being flippant and suggesting that the level of training you get to put needles in people is minimal/0. I have however studied placebo's/ acupuncture etc at great length when I was studying psychology, and helping do research with my mother when she was doing her Masters in research methods, which also related to things such as placebos, as almost all healthcare studies do...
I was also not saying that acupuncture was similar to homeopathy in practice I was putting the two together because they rely on exactly the same thing, your mind. So well done, if these things work, you have cured yourself.
Genuinely if you believe in things like acupuncture you might as well believe in the power of prayer (again some people do) as well as voodoo as Leroy said above.
Both could "cure you" the same way as acupuncture, but once again, they would have no effect on you, it would all be in your mind and you would be curing yourself.
We obviously are going to have to cordially disagree. I would only say that if you knew me, you wouldn't assess me as particularly gullible or susceptible to quack theories. I tend towards atheism, I was trained to analyse research results thoroughly, and I dont go in for conspiracy theories. I'm just saying this to illustrate that I surprised myself regarding the Chinese medicine. I never expected it to work. It's also worth pointing out that those who administered the other procedures did not suggest I should continue with their procedures longer. My Physio doctor was reduced to suggesting that only rest could cure it, which unfortunately wasn't an easy option when you are self employed. The other thing is that I could feel the acupuncture working over those weeks. The location of the pain started to move slowly down my arm, then gradually reduced to nothing. Something was most definitely happening and it didn't happen for four previous painful years.
Anyway, my Professor Karel Lewit, the 95 year old I mentioned, accepted that the acupuncture had worked in my case, whereas he was ferociously critical of previous procedures like chiropractic, " one step up from witchcraft"and lazy doctors who dish out cortisone injections. He's one of the most inspiring human beings I've ever met, and I believe if you met him you'd be impressed too. His overall view is its not a matter of Western vs Eastern but of thorough research and learning, and getting to the root of a health problem, rather than using things like cortisone, tablets, and surgery as short cuts.
Comments
But in 2002 I started to develop really bad tennis elbow, of course from using a computer too much, bad posture, etc. None of the Western remedies worked. For four years I woke up to this pain. Finally I was recommended a Chinese doctor. The environment in which she operated was a bit of a shock, not much privacy, and she didn't speak much Czech, let alone English. At first it got worse, and I panicked a bit, but another patient listened to my dialogue with her and said " if I may give you some advice, don't try to think about it, just try to believe" . And sure enough, after a couple of months, the pain started to move down my arm, and two months more, it was gone. And has stayed gone. I am so bloody grateful.
The thing is, by that time I had managed to finally get my appointment with a remarkable world famous professor of physiotherapy who still, amazingly, practices, event though he is now 95. He doesn't mince his words. He said for example that chiropractic is one step up from witchcraft - because there is no thorough evidence that it works. But he respects Chinese thinking in his field, precisely because it is so old. It led me to the conclusion that the best for us would be if Chinese and Western medicine would get together more and share the knowledge, rather than trying to compete and do the other down.
They drink 50% rice wine like its water.
On a night out its also the done thing to drink till you puke, then drink some more, over and over.
Although give em 5 beers and they're done. Where as most other lowai I know can't drink bijou at all.
Anyway, alternative medicine is bollocks, and homeopathy is the most ludicrous concept in the history of humanity. Anyone getting better after non-medicinal 'remedies' is experiencing either the placebo effect or simply getting better through the passing of time.
If you're offered a cig (happens all the bloody time) refusing is an insult, even if you don't smoke.
The passing of time thing is spot on, people always tell me TCM works, it just takes longer, for example, the treatment for a cold should take no longer than a week.......
Because Hocus Pocus does not work... Suggesting otherwise is dense.
Homeopathy practitioners consistently refuse to submit their work for peer -reviewed tests. My physiotherapy professor says the same is true of chiropractic.
The body of evidence that shows acupuncture is effective in various procedures is building all the time. It increasingly seems that physiotherapy in particular would benefit from knowledge derived from Asian medicines.
Another thing that has amazed me is the benefit from doing pilates. Not only did it straighten out my posture, but almost certainly it is the reason why I don't have low level pain in my knees which I had had for several years, presumably because my better posture means I put less pressure on them.
My physio professor approves of all these "alternative' (?) approaches because he has been on a lifelong mission to stop laziness in modern Western medicine in his area which in his typically graphic words means people are 'needlessly cut up'.
Someone did once explain to me why but I was pretty drunk at the time (maybe 3-4 cups in lol) I'll have to ask them again once im back in china.
What pharmaceutical companies tell you about researching in the Amazon rainforest, the deep sea trenches and anywhere else is largely bullshit for marketing brochures. Yes, they DO research in those places, but the vast majority of 'research' in pharmacology is in how to make minute changes to patented compounds so they can extend those patents, how to steal other drug companies' patented products and how to get round providing adequate trial data to regulatory bodies.
You just need to do the maths: if, say, tiger bollocks made men more potent in the sack, don't you think that Pfizer, GSK or any of the other big drug companies wouldn't have found a way to buy up every single tiger bollock that ever existed and grind it up to sell to desperate men the world over for ten times the price of gold? Why they'd be breeding them in farms all over just to get more supply.
Modern pharmacology does indeed have part of its roots in herbalism (amongst other things). But every 'traditional' remedy has already been looked at hundreds of times and, if it works, has been used in 'real' medicine.
I think we should seriously look at chucking 'homeopathy' out of the discussion here. Whilst I'll readily admit that there are some 'traditional' (Chinese, Western, Amerindian or whatever) remedies that work (and are therefore the basis for actual drugs), homeopathy is the most laughable bullshit I've ever heard. It's like comparing Creationism to the theory of Evolution. One is an actual, viable, demonstrable theory. The other is the deranged rambling of imbeciles.
The placebo effect keeps many people in a job...
Just so that I am clear, are you suggesting that the combination of acupuncture, acupressure and herbal medicines, which got rid of my RSI when four years of different Western origin procedures failed to do so, was simply a placebo effect? And this on somebody who was pretty sceptical about the whole thing, especially when I saw the very makeshift nature of the doctor's surgery, which seemd designed to evoke backstreet Beijing?
And if so, might I enquire as to your professional qualification for making this assertion?
Although if people believe that having needles put in them and drinking tea will cure them, then please feel free to come round to mine, I will be more than willing to rebrand my PG Tips into a herbal infusion which will cure almost anything, at a price.
The placebo effect isn't to be looked down on, if these people can generate a placebo effect that cures people, that is obviously a good thing. Generally the more invasive the treatment the stronger the placebo/expectation effects.
Although if you can show me a decent study which proves that acupuncture and various other homeopathic nonsenses are anything other than a strong placebo effect I will eat my words. :-)
Take Prozac for example, used by over 40 million people. No more effective than a placebo. http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2008/feb/26/mentalhealth.medicalresearch
Placebo effect is well documented and is real. I doubt that having major surgery under hypnosis would fall into this category or acupuncture for that matter. You might just as well say that the curative effect of any drug you care to name relies on the same phenomena. As for your professional qualifications. Are you a medical man then sir ?
I also understand, as a layman, the placebo effect. I'm a big fan of Ben Goldacre and his Bad Science book and articles.
In my case, to get rid of RSI I went in for a whole range of "western" treatments. Starting with the laziest one, the cortisone shot, then the anti-inflammatory drugs, then some machine which was firing some kind of ultrasonic waves at the spot, then physiotherapy complemented by ultrasound and some other machine.
None of them worked, and by the heaven I wanted them all to.
Then I went to the Chinese doctor, I was sceptical beforehand, even more sceptical when I saw the place and how she works, and when after four weeks the pain was getting worse, I wondered if I had made some awful mistake.
And then it started to work, slowly. No other alterations to my life, other than the ones she prescribed. And the problem has never returned to any worrying degree, even though I still work on the computer a lot for a living.
Why did the placebo effect kick in just for the Chinese treatment and not for the 6-7 other types of treatment?
BTW acupuncture has nothing at all to do with homeopathy, which has a very specific and relatively recent origin. A mouthy German doctor in the 18th century if I recall rightly.
I suspect what's happened is that either your condition has resolved itself (hopefully for good!), or that one or more of the treatments you had which have proven to demonstrate at least some effect (note - NOT acupuncture or herbal medicines, which have never been proven to have anything other than a placebo effect) has worked.
What you're doing is confusing correlation with cause and effect. This is the same thing that led to the MMR hysteria. In your situation, it's not a matter of life and death. Sadly, there are thousnads of cases where someone has foregone treatment that very well could have saved - or at least prolonged - their life for quack cures.
As for the last statement - as an intelligent man, I can't believe you would relate something's perceived effectiveness to the length of time it's been around. Homeopathy was 'invented' whilst 'real' medicine still consisted largely of bloodletting. Knowing that doesn't give it any more credibility. Similarly, just because acupuncture has been around for a thousand years (or whatever) doesn't make it any more likely to 'work' than magic or voodoo. Studies indicate that 'sham' acupuncture has almost as much of an effect on chronic pain as 'real' acupuncture. So much so that the difference between test groups showed differences of no statistical significance
When I said "more qualified than the Chinese doctor" I was being flippant and suggesting that the level of training you get to put needles in people is minimal/0. I have however studied placebo's/ acupuncture etc at great length when I was studying psychology, and helping do research with my mother when she was doing her Masters in research methods, which also related to things such as placebos, as almost all healthcare studies do...
I was also not saying that acupuncture was similar to homeopathy in practice I was putting the two together because they rely on exactly the same thing, your mind. So well done, if these things work, you have cured yourself.
Genuinely if you believe in things like acupuncture you might as well believe in the power of prayer (again some people do) as well as voodoo as Leroy said above.
Both could "cure you" the same way as acupuncture, but once again, they would have no effect on you, it would all be in your mind and you would be curing yourself.
We obviously are going to have to cordially disagree. I would only say that if you knew me, you wouldn't assess me as particularly gullible or susceptible to quack theories. I tend towards atheism, I was trained to analyse research results thoroughly, and I dont go in for conspiracy theories. I'm just saying this to illustrate that I surprised myself regarding the Chinese medicine. I never expected it to work. It's also worth pointing out that those who administered the other procedures did not suggest I should continue with their procedures longer. My Physio doctor was reduced to suggesting that only rest could cure it, which unfortunately wasn't an easy option when you are self employed. The other thing is that I could feel the acupuncture working over those weeks. The location of the pain started to move slowly down my arm, then gradually reduced to nothing. Something was most definitely happening and it didn't happen for four previous painful years.
Anyway, my Professor Karel Lewit, the 95 year old I mentioned, accepted that the acupuncture had worked in my case, whereas he was ferociously critical of previous procedures like chiropractic, " one step up from witchcraft"and lazy doctors who dish out cortisone injections. He's one of the most inspiring human beings I've ever met, and I believe if you met him you'd be impressed too. His overall view is its not a matter of Western vs Eastern but of thorough research and learning, and getting to the root of a health problem, rather than using things like cortisone, tablets, and surgery as short cuts.