An example of waste in the NHS

ME14addick

I am currently on the waiting list for a knee replacement operation with Maidstone & Tunbridge Wells NHS Trust. Last week I attended a pre-assessment clinic to determine my fitness for surgery and was told I'm okay. I was told the blood tests, MRSA swabs etc. are valid for 8 weeks and if I don't have my op within that time, I will have to have them again.

As I hadn't heard anything about a date for my operation, I just telephoned Maidstone hospital and was advised that my op will probably be in April or May. That means I will have to undergo the tests again. What a waste of my time and the staff at the hospital and more importantly tax payer's money. No wonder the NHS is in such a mess financially.

Solidgone

....but they will eventually do a very good job and you will be hopping around contently by early summer.

ME14addick

I'm sure they will. I've been very impressed by the efficiency of the staff at the appointments I have attended at Maidstone Hospital so far, but it is a waste of money to have to undergo tests twice.

JT

An example yes. But I don't think it's fair to tar everyone with the same brush.

I can assure you we receive more compliments for services than people may think. I know that because I deal with information relating to complaints/compliments.

It's never going to run perfectly, it's simply not feasible.

ME14addick

I did say I have been impressed with the efficiency of the staff at Maidstone Hospital and I'm not blaming them for anything, just a system that may require me to have the same tests twice. If that happens regularly then it will add up to a lot of money.

Rizzo

The appointment system itself is pretty shit in my experience. My wife had an appointment with a consultant a few years ago. Having both taken the afternoon off work to attend the appointment we turned up, told the receptionist we were here and waited two hours before being told that we should have had a letter saying that the appointment had been cancelled! We did eventually receive the letter, 3 weeks after the cancelled appointment.

I do have to say however that the consultant was very decent. Upon hearing the commotion as I was busy haranguing the receptionist he apologised and offered to see my wife that day and squeezed us in about half an hour later.

But in these days of e-mails, mobile phones etc, why on earth are letters still being sent?

I'm having a similar problem myself at the moment, having been referred (by letter) to a surgeon and not having heard anything for 3 months I rang them up and was told that they hadn't done anything and could I fax another copy of the letter over!

ValleyGary

The NHS must be loaded there was a she/he claiming they are having £25,000 worth of ops to look like Rihanna in the news this morning.

LuckyReds

Unfortunately the NHS is riddled with financial black holes though; £1 billion being wasted on trade name prescriptions that are out of patent and are available as generic being a noteworthy one.

Similarly, all this bollocks about complimentary/alternative therapies being available on it.

Then you look at the admin issues that cost money - like the ones you've mentioned..

We're incredibly fortunate to have the NHS and it is an amazing service; but bloody hell there are some major drains of cash that could be rectified.

Ormiston_Addick

LuckyReds said:

Unfortunately the NHS is riddled with financial black holes though; £1 billion being wasted on trade name prescriptions that are out of patent and are available as generic being a noteworthy one.

Similarly, all this bollocks about complimentary/alternative therapies being available on it.

Then you look at the admin issues that cost money - like the ones you've mentioned..

We're incredibly fortunate to have the NHS and it is an amazing service; but bloody hell there are some major drains of cash that could be rectified.

I have a very close relative who worked in personnel at a major NHS hospital, some of the payouts to staff departing were an absolute disgrace, we are talking about people getting 200K+ as settlements to make sure they left quickly and quietly.

You won't find a bigger backer of the NHS than me but some of the things that went on were an absolute disgrace, I actually met someone who got one of those payouts (not my relative) and they admit they could not believe their luck.

Davo55

You been playing football against Kevin Muscat ME14?

Stig

What's the point of triage nurses in A&E? Everyone goes on to see the doctor a few hours later anyway so why not replace triage with a proper doctor and then a lucky few would get sorted quicker.

queensland_addick

The wastage in employing agency staff in the NHS is scandalous. On completion of my training I left the NHS to join an agency and continued working in my same position for triple the salary. On my recent trip home I was astonished to learn that specialist nurses employed through an agency were costing the NHS a mind boggling 1800 pounds per day! Having been an agency worker and having had agency workers work under me, I can say that generally they do not have the same dedication, and because they are often unfamiliar with their working environment, they are not as efficient as full time staff. Rather than working to overcome problems they simply move on, hoping to find an easier gig. I left the NHS in 95 because I hated the waste and the dropping of standards and things seem to have got much worse since.
We had to bring my mother out to Australia recently to get her heart problem sorted out after two years of her suffering and being breathless, she couldn't walk 50 yards. Her GP & local hospital were hopeless and didn't even bother running tests. Within 3 weeks of arrival in Australia she had seen a GP, had an echocardiogram and seen a cardiologist to discuss findings. A simple change of medication was all that was required to better control her atrial fibrillation and transform her quality of life. The money spent on the airfare was worth every penny.

maybe_baby

The fact that you will have this op is in itself a reason to smile...we are all very fortunate to have this service, even if it is not 100% efficient.

tangoflash

Spare a thought for our grand kids, as the service probably won't be there when they reach our age..............

Greenie

tangoflash said:

Spare a thought for our grand kids, as the service probably won't be there when they reach our age..............

Yet the billions we wasted on the back slapping Olympics would have paid for more hospitals and staff!

DaveMehmet

You'll enjoy the sterile atmosphere when you do go in though

ShootersHillGuru

Will all effectively be private soon anyway.

Rizzo

Stig said:

What's the point of triage nurses in A&E? Everyone goes on to see the doctor a few hours later anyway so why not replace triage with a proper doctor and then a lucky few would get sorted quicker.

Triage for materntiy units is a joke too. When my wife started contractions with our first (and so far only) child we dashed off to the QE and were told to go to Triage. There we were told to take a seat whilst they dealt with another patient. Well, taking a seat when you're doubled over in pain, screaming and vomiting on the floor is a little tricky. What's worse is that the other patient that was being seen to was sat on a couch, listening to an ipod and reading a magazine.

That is not triage you morons! That's a fucking waiting room!!

Huskaris

It's the NHS so mustn't grumble!

Algarveaddick

I get the point you are making M14, and yes it does seem to be a waste.

A friend of mine has a theory that the government is deliberately allowing the NHS to become as inefficient as possible so that they can claim it isn't working, and cannot be turned around, paving the way for a new, private insurance based scheme similar to the USA. This would be preceded by ministers buying up stock in insurance companies and followed by former ministers taking up places on the boards of insurance companies.

stop_shouting

"A friend of mine has a theory". Don't suppose he's a member of the loony left is he! Hope we do get rid of the NHS as it's been totally abused, leaving the poor doctors & nurses overworked & underpaid.

Huskaris

or an insurance based scheme like much of Europe, which works exceptionally well?

JohnBoyUK

Huskaris said:

or an insurance based scheme like much of Europe, which works exceptionally well?

Excuse my ignorance on stuff like this, but how would that work here. We have to pay a health insurance premium per year or something like that. Then what happens? If we get injured or are unwell and we go to hospital for treatment, the insurance company picks up the cost? Is that how it would work or have I misunderstood completely?

LenGlover

Aneurin Bevan's original concept of the NHS was wonderful indeed.

Unfortunately its hospitals are now little more than corrupt State Death Camps practising euthanasia by the back door via the Liverpool Care Pathway or poor hygiene practices.

Managers are rewarded via promotion or generous pay-off for the deaths they preside over.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/9884358/Mid-Staffs-scandal-NHS-chief-must-not-be-a-scapegoat-says-PM.html

and

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/7851691/Sacrificed-superbug-NHS-chief-Rose-Gibb-wins-190000-damages.html

Ordinary workers in all walks of life are told that executives are remunerated far more than them because of the greater responsibilities they face.

In a sane world if they fail to discharge that responsibility properly then they should forfeit some or all of the reward.

The fact that this does not appear to happen within the NHS demonstrates State approval for the culture of death that now exists in my opinion.

The unwritten rule seems to be most patients in hospitals are past retiring age so if we kill them we save money all round, tick our boxes and our executives gain yet more obscene pay rises.

Whistleblowers are gagged.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/feb/20/remove-the-gag-on-whistleblowers

Soup de Jour as Delboy would say.

Huskaris

JohnBoyUK said:

Huskaris said:

or an insurance based scheme like much of Europe, which works exceptionally well?

Excuse my ignorance on stuff like this, but how would that work here. We have to pay a health insurance premium per year or something like that. Then what happens? If we get injured or are unwell and we go to hospital for treatment, the insurance company picks up the cost? Is that how it would work or have I misunderstood completely?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_France

Pretty much that, sorry to use Wikipedia.

Rizzo

Huskaris said:

JohnBoyUK said:

Huskaris said:

or an insurance based scheme like much of Europe, which works exceptionally well?

Excuse my ignorance on stuff like this, but how would that work here. We have to pay a health insurance premium per year or something like that. Then what happens? If we get injured or are unwell and we go to hospital for treatment, the insurance company picks up the cost? Is that how it would work or have I misunderstood completely?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_France

Pretty much that, sorry to use Wikipedia.

Much as I hate to praise the French for anything (other than Kerm) I have to say that their healthcare system kicks seven buckets of shit out of ours and I'd vote for pretty much any party that promised to introduce it here.

Algarveaddick

stop shouting said:

"A friend of mine has a theory". Don't suppose he's a member of the loony left is he! Hope we do get rid of the NHS as it's been totally abused, leaving the poor doctors & nurses overworked & underpaid.

Surely that is more or less what my mate said? Only difference is you appear to want it to close ( would be interested in your opinion on the alternative ), he wants to bring it back to what it used to be.

In Portugal we have a similar system to the UK, but you pay a small amount to see the doctor (€5 at the moment), and for any tests etc. Seems to work quite well, keeps the hypochondriacs away.

Don't forget that being Britain, your national insurance payments would remain the same, they would not drop to compensate for paying out for your health insurance.

LenGlover

Rizzo said:

Huskaris said:

JohnBoyUK said:

Huskaris said:

or an insurance based scheme like much of Europe, which works exceptionally well?

Excuse my ignorance on stuff like this, but how would that work here. We have to pay a health insurance premium per year or something like that. Then what happens? If we get injured or are unwell and we go to hospital for treatment, the insurance company picks up the cost? Is that how it would work or have I misunderstood completely?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_France

Pretty much that, sorry to use Wikipedia.

Much as I hate to praise the French for anything (other than Kerm) I have to say that their healthcare system kicks seven buckets of shit out of ours and I'd vote for pretty much any party that promised to introduce it here.

My fear with an inurance based system is that patients with pre existing conditions would be shafted.

This already happens in the private sector.

Algarveaddick

Huskaris said:

JohnBoyUK said:

Huskaris said:

or an insurance based scheme like much of Europe, which works exceptionally well?

Excuse my ignorance on stuff like this, but how would that work here. We have to pay a health insurance premium per year or something like that. Then what happens? If we get injured or are unwell and we go to hospital for treatment, the insurance company picks up the cost? Is that how it would work or have I misunderstood completely?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_France

Pretty much that, sorry to use Wikipedia.

Not how I read that at all. Something about only 3.7% of hospital treatment being paid for by private insurance, the government generally refunding 70% of health costs? Not the NHS model I grant you, but certainly not being picked up by private insurance companies, which is what I think JBUK was getting at?

Rizzo

LenGlover said:

Rizzo said:

Huskaris said:

JohnBoyUK said:

Huskaris said:

or an insurance based scheme like much of Europe, which works exceptionally well?

Excuse my ignorance on stuff like this, but how would that work here. We have to pay a health insurance premium per year or something like that. Then what happens? If we get injured or are unwell and we go to hospital for treatment, the insurance company picks up the cost? Is that how it would work or have I misunderstood completely?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_France

Pretty much that, sorry to use Wikipedia.

Much as I hate to praise the French for anything (other than Kerm) I have to say that their healthcare system kicks seven buckets of shit out of ours and I'd vote for pretty much any party that promised to introduce it here.

My fear with an inurance based system is that patients with pre existing conditions would be shafted.

This already happens in the private sector.

It could be a problem. If we were introducing the system 'from scratch' I think everyone would need to start with a clean sheet otherwise it would never work.

Huskaris

LenGlover said:

Rizzo said:

Huskaris said:

JohnBoyUK said:

Huskaris said:

or an insurance based scheme like much of Europe, which works exceptionally well?

Excuse my ignorance on stuff like this, but how would that work here. We have to pay a health insurance premium per year or something like that. Then what happens? If we get injured or are unwell and we go to hospital for treatment, the insurance company picks up the cost? Is that how it would work or have I misunderstood completely?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_France

Pretty much that, sorry to use Wikipedia.

Much as I hate to praise the French for anything (other than Kerm) I have to say that their healthcare system kicks seven buckets of shit out of ours and I'd vote for pretty much any party that promised to introduce it here.

My fear with an inurance based system is that patients with pre existing conditions would be shafted.

This already happens in the private sector.

But your contributions are based on ability to pay, not on your health etc.

This is the point, whenever anyone says "Insurance system" people jump to scream that we will have people dying in the streets etc, just like in the US whenever they talk about a compulsory insurance system they shout socialist, both sides are equally misinformed.

The French system was inspired by us in fact, the idea is that it largely removes the political element from the health system, something I am sure we would all agree would be massively beneficial in this country, as currently the NHS is manipulated in so many ways by politicians. Outcome isn't important, the amount of money a politician pledges to spend on it is, and the things that are important eg waiting times for operations and A+E are manipulated horribly.

Add to this the fact that PPI was effectively a mass way of reducing short term spending by burdening the UK with long term debt and you begin to think that maybe a private not for profit insurance based system strictly regulated by the government might, dare we say it lead to a more efficient allocation of funds, but then again, try selling that idea to the masses. The Tories would never get away with it because they are "evil" and Labour probably wouldn't have the balls to try it.

I would bet you a pound to a penny it would work better though.