So China's response to this crisis is to blame the Americans and South Korea for deploying anti missile defences in the south and for holding joint military exercises suggesting that it was "provocative".
I'm very concerned by this attitude when in realistic terms China is the only player that could influence Kim Jong-Un. As for Russia. They will always pretty much condemn anything the USA does on a point of principle. Not very helpful in this situation.
Every action that has been taken by North Korea over the last few years is moving their military towards a conflict. Economic sanctions are meaningless.
We really do need China to take a lead in this situation otherwise I really do think that the unthinkable might happen.
I agree and find it really hard to understand why China doesn't even condemn the way Kim Jon-Un treats his own citizens, let alone the missile tests! I'd seriously place Kim Jon-Un on the same level as Hitler in terms of dictatorship and evilness.
I disagreed about our intervention in Iraq and Libya but if a war broke out with North Korea where our goverment choose to intervene I'd support it. Any oppotunity to remove Kim Jong-Un and get a leader in who is democratic and fair!
Yeah, recent history has taught us that's exactly how it goes down.
You'd suggest we leave North Korea to it then? Even if Kim Jon-Un decides to scrap missile tests the UN need to do something about the way he governs North Korea.
So China's response to this crisis is to blame the Americans and South Korea for deploying anti missile defences in the south and for holding joint military exercises suggesting that it was "provocative".
I'm very concerned by this attitude when in realistic terms China is the only player that could influence Kim Jong-Un. As for Russia. They will always pretty much condemn anything the USA does on a point of principle. Not very helpful in this situation.
Every action that has been taken by North Korea over the last few years is moving their military towards a conflict. Economic sanctions are meaningless.
We really do need China to take a lead in this situation otherwise I really do think that the unthinkable might happen.
I agree and find it really hard to understand why China doesn't even condemn the way Kim Jon-Un treats his own citizens, let alone the missile tests! I'd seriously place Kim Jon-Un on the same level as Hitler in terms of dictatorship and evilness.
I disagreed about our intervention in Iraq and Libya but if a war broke out with North Korea where our goverment choose to intervene I'd support it. Any oppotunity to remove Kim Jong-Un and get a leader in who is democratic and fair!
Yeah, recent history has taught us that's exactly how it goes down.
You'd suggest we leave North Korea to it then? Even if Kim Jon-Un decides to scrap missile tests the UN need to do something about the way he governs North Korea.
I agree, but what? A big part of the reason we're in this mess is that few countries, namely China, but perhaps Russia and Iran to some extent, have any influence over North Korea. None of those countries seem to have much interest in stopping human rights' abuse, because I'd they did they would start a lot closer to home.
Let me add, as an American, I don't want to make it seem like we're saintly. We have a fair few human rights' violations of our own, and we're more than happy to do business with human rights' abusers when it suits us.
Their latest PRNK missile test is a violation of security council rules. But there isn't much that can be done at this point if China doesn't do it themselves.
So China's response to this crisis is to blame the Americans and South Korea for deploying anti missile defences in the south and for holding joint military exercises suggesting that it was "provocative".
I'm very concerned by this attitude when in realistic terms China is the only player that could influence Kim Jong-Un. As for Russia. They will always pretty much condemn anything the USA does on a point of principle. Not very helpful in this situation.
Every action that has been taken by North Korea over the last few years is moving their military towards a conflict. Economic sanctions are meaningless.
We really do need China to take a lead in this situation otherwise I really do think that the unthinkable might happen.
I agree and find it really hard to understand why China doesn't even condemn the way Kim Jon-Un treats his own citizens, let alone the missile tests! I'd seriously place Kim Jon-Un on the same level as Hitler in terms of dictatorship and evilness.
I disagreed about our intervention in Iraq and Libya but if a war broke out with North Korea where our goverment choose to intervene I'd support it. Any oppotunity to remove Kim Jong-Un and get a leader in who is democratic and fair!
Yeah, recent history has taught us that's exactly how it goes down.
You'd suggest we leave North Korea to it then? Even if Kim Jon-Un decides to scrap missile tests the UN need to do something about the way he governs North Korea.
very similar argument to:
You'd suggest we leave Iraq to it then? Even if Saddam Hussain decides to scrap/doesn't have WMD the UN need to do something about the way he governs Iraq.
@SDAddick kinda OT, but have you seen the documentary "Dirty Wars" ?
If not, can I be so bold as to suggest you go watch it on YouTube, right now, it changed my outlook on world politics like nothing else before.
It's been in my Netflix queue for ages and just haven't mustered up the strength to watch it. I know the subject matter and I'm a big fan of Jeremy Scahill's reporting. He wrote a big expose book on Blackwater, whose CEO (or former CEO) Erik Prince (his sister is Betsy DeVos, education secretary) had an op-ed in the New York Times the other day saying that we should switch to contractors in all our wars. He is not a good person.
@SDAddick kinda OT, but have you seen the documentary "Dirty Wars" ?
If not, can I be so bold as to suggest you go watch it on YouTube, right now, it changed my outlook on world politics like nothing else before.
It's been in my Netflix queue for ages and just haven't mustered up the strength to watch it. I know the subject matter and I'm a big fan of Jeremy Scahill's reporting. He wrote a big expose book on Blackwater, whose CEO (or former CEO) Erik Prince (his sister is Betsy DeVos, education secretary) had an op-ed in the New York Times the other day saying that we should switch to contractors in all our wars. He is not a good person.
I'll give it a go over the weekend.
Erik Prince is a very scary guy, that now appears to have an air force too. Clearly has the gift of the gab, I'd like to know who's funding him.
I don't think he stands a chance of supplying contractors to Afghanistan the US military wouldn't allow it, but he's setting himself out to anyone that needs a spare army. Really scary.
The military activity at the moment with the USA and South Korea on the North Korean borders isn't getting mentioned much. To some extent the North see it as threatening, especially as technically the Korean War isn't actually over yet. Their reasoning may well be disingenuous and flawed, but it is some reason rather than no reason for their missile knob waving. It would or should be possible to scaffold a dialogue based on a kind of justifiable mutual sense of grievance and hold talks, at least that might hold off Nuclear Armageddon for now.
The military activity at the moment with the USA and South Korea on the North Korean borders isn't getting mentioned much. To some extent the North see it as threatening, especially as technically the Korean War isn't actually over yet. Their reasoning may well be disingenuous and flawed, but it is some reason rather than no reason for their missile knob waving. It would or should be possible to scaffold a dialogue based on a kind of justifiable mutual sense of grievance and hold talks, at least that might hold off Nuclear Armageddon for now.
Agree. The exercises are a regular thing but fuck off North Korea and China. There is a bit of chicken and egg about it all because the more North Korea threatens, the more we need to drill to be ready, the more we drill, the more they threaten, etc. But still, more situational awareness would be better. We don't need to be stoking tensions.
So China's response to this crisis is to blame the Americans and South Korea for deploying anti missile defences in the south and for holding joint military exercises suggesting that it was "provocative".
I'm very concerned by this attitude when in realistic terms China is the only player that could influence Kim Jong-Un. As for Russia. They will always pretty much condemn anything the USA does on a point of principle. Not very helpful in this situation.
Every action that has been taken by North Korea over the last few years is moving their military towards a conflict. Economic sanctions are meaningless.
We really do need China to take a lead in this situation otherwise I really do think that the unthinkable might happen.
I agree and find it really hard to understand why China doesn't even condemn the way Kim Jon-Un treats his own citizens, let alone the missile tests! I'd seriously place Kim Jon-Un on the same level as Hitler in terms of dictatorship and evilness.
I disagreed about our intervention in Iraq and Libya but if a war broke out with North Korea where our goverment choose to intervene I'd support it. Any oppotunity to remove Kim Jong-Un and get a leader in who is democratic and fair!
Yeah, recent history has taught us that's exactly how it goes down.
You'd suggest we leave North Korea to it then? Even if Kim Jon-Un decides to scrap missile tests the UN need to do something about the way he governs North Korea.
I agree, but what? A big part of the reason we're in this mess is that few countries, namely China, but perhaps Russia and Iran to some extent, have any influence over North Korea. None of those countries seem to have much interest in stopping human rights' abuse, because I'd they did they would start a lot closer to home.
Let me add, as an American, I don't want to make it seem like we're saintly. We have a fair few human rights' violations of our own, and we're more than happy to do business with human rights' abusers when it suits us.
Their latest PRNK missile test is a violation of security council rules. But there isn't much that can be done at this point if China doesn't do it themselves.
Thing is mate, from China's point of view, all they have to do is turn round to the US of A and say "Yeah, you want us to do something about North Korea? Well, how many UN resolutions are Israel in breach of, 28 isn't it? When is Israel going to vacate illegally occupied land? What has the US done to put pressure on Israel? You could stop all this just by clicking your fingers but the USA has done nothing. Why do you expect us to do something different on North Korea?"
That's all they need to say. What response could the US possibly have?
So China's response to this crisis is to blame the Americans and South Korea for deploying anti missile defences in the south and for holding joint military exercises suggesting that it was "provocative".
I'm very concerned by this attitude when in realistic terms China is the only player that could influence Kim Jong-Un. As for Russia. They will always pretty much condemn anything the USA does on a point of principle. Not very helpful in this situation.
Every action that has been taken by North Korea over the last few years is moving their military towards a conflict. Economic sanctions are meaningless.
We really do need China to take a lead in this situation otherwise I really do think that the unthinkable might happen.
I agree and find it really hard to understand why China doesn't even condemn the way Kim Jon-Un treats his own citizens, let alone the missile tests! I'd seriously place Kim Jon-Un on the same level as Hitler in terms of dictatorship and evilness.
I disagreed about our intervention in Iraq and Libya but if a war broke out with North Korea where our goverment choose to intervene I'd support it. Any oppotunity to remove Kim Jong-Un and get a leader in who is democratic and fair!
Yeah, recent history has taught us that's exactly how it goes down.
You'd suggest we leave North Korea to it then? Even if Kim Jon-Un decides to scrap missile tests the UN need to do something about the way he governs North Korea.
I agree, but what? A big part of the reason we're in this mess is that few countries, namely China, but perhaps Russia and Iran to some extent, have any influence over North Korea. None of those countries seem to have much interest in stopping human rights' abuse, because I'd they did they would start a lot closer to home.
Let me add, as an American, I don't want to make it seem like we're saintly. We have a fair few human rights' violations of our own, and we're more than happy to do business with human rights' abusers when it suits us.
Their latest PRNK missile test is a violation of security council rules. But there isn't much that can be done at this point if China doesn't do it themselves.
Thing is mate, from China's point of view, all they have to do is turn round to the US of A and say "Yeah, you want us to do something about North Korea? Well, how many UN resolutions are Israel in breach of, 28 isn't it? When is Israel going to vacate illegally occupied land? What has the US done to put pressure on Israel? You could stop all this just by clicking your fingers but the USA has done nothing. Why do you expect us to do something different on North Korea?"
That's all they need to say. What response could the US possibly have?
They might mention that Israel isn't threatening to attack a Chinese atoll.
So China's response to this crisis is to blame the Americans and South Korea for deploying anti missile defences in the south and for holding joint military exercises suggesting that it was "provocative".
I'm very concerned by this attitude when in realistic terms China is the only player that could influence Kim Jong-Un. As for Russia. They will always pretty much condemn anything the USA does on a point of principle. Not very helpful in this situation.
Every action that has been taken by North Korea over the last few years is moving their military towards a conflict. Economic sanctions are meaningless.
We really do need China to take a lead in this situation otherwise I really do think that the unthinkable might happen.
I agree and find it really hard to understand why China doesn't even condemn the way Kim Jon-Un treats his own citizens, let alone the missile tests! I'd seriously place Kim Jon-Un on the same level as Hitler in terms of dictatorship and evilness.
I disagreed about our intervention in Iraq and Libya but if a war broke out with North Korea where our goverment choose to intervene I'd support it. Any oppotunity to remove Kim Jong-Un and get a leader in who is democratic and fair!
Yeah, recent history has taught us that's exactly how it goes down.
You'd suggest we leave North Korea to it then? Even if Kim Jon-Un decides to scrap missile tests the UN need to do something about the way he governs North Korea.
I agree, but what? A big part of the reason we're in this mess is that few countries, namely China, but perhaps Russia and Iran to some extent, have any influence over North Korea. None of those countries seem to have much interest in stopping human rights' abuse, because I'd they did they would start a lot closer to home.
Let me add, as an American, I don't want to make it seem like we're saintly. We have a fair few human rights' violations of our own, and we're more than happy to do business with human rights' abusers when it suits us.
Their latest PRNK missile test is a violation of security council rules. But there isn't much that can be done at this point if China doesn't do it themselves.
Thing is mate, from China's point of view, all they have to do is turn round to the US of A and say "Yeah, you want us to do something about North Korea? Well, how many UN resolutions are Israel in breach of, 28 isn't it? When is Israel going to vacate illegally occupied land? What has the US done to put pressure on Israel? You could stop all this just by clicking your fingers but the USA has done nothing. Why do you expect us to do something different on North Korea?"
That's all they need to say. What response could the US possibly have?
They might mention that Israel isn't threatening to attack a Chinese atoll.
No, they're not, they're actually taking land, if anything it's a step further!
Sometimes there are questions with no answers. It is not like picking the right option. All of them have severe risks and consequences. I believe China would rather North Korea stopped being so aggressive and that is the best hope for a solution ultimately. But North Korea is important to them stratigically and they don't want that changing. Trump has to say to teh Chinese, sort them out or we will do it for you - and it is best said privately.
The issue here is anything the Americans do could send missiles exploding over Japan. That won't be easy to prevent! We can't allow that to happen.
Sometimes there are questions with no answers. It is not like picking the right option. All of them have severe risks and consequences. I believe China would rather North Korea stopped being so aggressive and that is the best hope for a solution ultimately. But North Korea is important to them stratigically and they don't want that changing. Trump has to say to teh Chinese, sort them out or we will do it for you - and it is best said privately.
The issue here is anything the Americans do could send missiles exploding over Japan. That won't be easy to prevent! We can't allow that to happen.
So there's not really much America can do, it there?
I still really hope NK will use their nuclear capabilities as a way to ease the tension between themselves and the west, it really is the only option. if this leads to a lessening of trade restrictions, we could see a much calmer situations.
Look at what's happened in Lybia, Iraq and attempted in Syria, it's kind of understandable why a nutjob dictator would want access to nukes, it's gonna keep their regime a lot safer than not having them!
As for human rights abuses, does anyone really think China gives a ****? If they did, they can start looking a lot closer than the Korean peninsular, IYKWIM.
I still maintain this will never end with military action, everyone has too much to lose, with nothing to gain. Even with the maniac trump in charge.
got a feeling they might end up blowing themselves to kingdom come. so much can go wrong especially as far as I can tell they are trying to get it done as quickly as possible. this of course would still be an absolute disaster for the whole region, if not the world.
This won't end well, it's just a question of when now.
I think this now means a complete re think from the West.
North Korea has now entered into the nuclear power club and that isn't going to change.
It's madness to even think about any form of military action. It's almost certain that millions in the region would die.
It's unlikely that a regime change will happen unless the CIA get to the top generals out there but that's a risky strategy with no guarantee of success with the possibility of making things worse. Assination is as unlikely because getting to Kim Jong-Un is virtually impossible without high level NK involvement.
I think that the West now needs to accept the situation and beef up defences in South Korea, Japan and on Guam. Remain vigilant and be prepared for any aggression which to be fair I think is unlikely. Pyongyang I believe just want the status of being nuclear but doesn't have any aggressive ambitions. That would be suicide. Keep up the economic pressure and seek a diplomatic solution.
A wrong move now by Trump and the world could soon be a very different place.
This won't end well, it's just a question of when now.
But will it...? Interesting response from China basically saying the USA fucked up the Middle East (Iraq, Lybia and Syria) and they don't want to see their region fucked up. They went on to say NK are scared and that's why they are taking this action. If USA went home then things might calm down. I'm sure that if NK fired off a nuke to attack anyone in NATO then rain drops will quickly land on their heads. But until that happens Keep calm and support the Addicks. :0)
This won't end well, it's just a question of when now.
But will it...? Interesting response from China basically saying the USA fucked up the Middle East (Iraq, Lybia and Syria) and they don't want to see their region fucked up. They went on to say NK are scared and that's why they are taking this action. If USA went home then things might calm down. I'm sure that if NK fired off a nuke to attack anyone in NATO then rain drops will quickly land on their heads. But until that happens Keep calm and support the Addicks. :0)
That would've been the case pre trump but he is as volatile as ganglam style man
This won't end well, it's just a question of when now.
But will it...? Interesting response from China basically saying the USA fucked up the Middle East (Iraq, Lybia and Syria) and they don't want to see their region fucked up. They went on to say NK are scared and that's why they are taking this action. If USA went home then things might calm down. I'm sure that if NK fired off a nuke to attack anyone in NATO then rain drops will quickly land on their heads. But until that happens Keep calm and support the Addicks. :0)
That would've been the case pre trump but he is as volatile as ganglam style man
Who pulls Trump's strings though? Genuine question, I am rather ignorant of American politics. I stopped believing Mr. President had autonomy when the Hollywood actor was elected in the 80's. Or maybe it was when the most popular President of the last century was assassinated in Dallas in '63.
War of words being ramped up by the USA now. Fairly straightforward warning.
I still don't think NK has any intention of verbally or actually threatening anyone. They want the Presteige and respect that goes with being a nuclear power. I suppose they believe that as such they are invulnerable to foreign interference.
Yes, the problem is that whilst North Korea would be quickly defeated by the US, there would likely be enough time for them to take innocent people in South Korea and Japan with them. But North Korea will improve its technology and much of the US will be within range - I can't see how they will let that happen. They have to make an alliance with China and agree that a defeated North Korea would become part of China. But if relations break down, it could be stategically disasterous for them! It is a right mess.
Yes, the problem is that whilst North Korea would be quickly defeated by the US, there would likely be enough time for them to take innocent people in South Korea and Japan with them. But North Korea will improve its technology and much of the US will be within range - I can't see how they will let that happen. They have to make an alliance with China and agree that a defeated North Korea would become part of China. But if relations break down, it could be stategically disasterous for them! It is a right mess.
I can't see N Korea becoming part of China in any circumstances, why would China want that?
They wouldn't but they would't want them as part of the western alliance at any cost. Simply because of geographic significance. North Korea are an unstable ally and China will be worried about that!
They would install a puppet leader - who is likely to be an improvement over the current one because being worse would be quite difficult. The deal to let this happen would be an agreement that North Korea cannot be a nuclear state between the US and China. I'm not saying this is likely to happen, but where the best answer to a question without any good answers lies.
Comments
Let me add, as an American, I don't want to make it seem like we're saintly. We have a fair few human rights' violations of our own, and we're more than happy to do business with human rights' abusers when it suits us.
Their latest PRNK missile test is a violation of security council rules. But there isn't much that can be done at this point if China doesn't do it themselves.
If not, can I be so bold as to suggest you go watch it on YouTube, right now, it changed my outlook on world politics like nothing else before.
You'd suggest we leave Iraq to it then? Even if Saddam Hussain decides to scrap/doesn't have WMD the UN need to do something about the way he governs Iraq.
That ended well, didn't it?
I'll give it a go over the weekend.
I don't think he stands a chance of supplying contractors to Afghanistan the US military wouldn't allow it, but he's setting himself out to anyone that needs a spare army. Really scary.
Their reasoning may well be disingenuous and flawed, but it is some reason rather than no reason for their missile knob waving.
It would or should be possible to scaffold a dialogue based on a kind of justifiable mutual sense of grievance and hold talks, at least that might hold off Nuclear Armageddon for now.
That's all they need to say. What response could the US possibly have?
The issue here is anything the Americans do could send missiles exploding over Japan. That won't be easy to prevent! We can't allow that to happen.
I still really hope NK will use their nuclear capabilities as a way to ease the tension between themselves and the west, it really is the only option. if this leads to a lessening of trade restrictions, we could see a much calmer situations.
Look at what's happened in Lybia, Iraq and attempted in Syria, it's kind of understandable why a nutjob dictator would want access to nukes, it's gonna keep their regime a lot safer than not having them!
As for human rights abuses, does anyone really think China gives a ****? If they did, they can start looking a lot closer than the Korean peninsular, IYKWIM.
I still maintain this will never end with military action, everyone has too much to lose, with nothing to gain. Even with the maniac trump in charge.
North Korea has now entered into the nuclear power club and that isn't going to change.
It's madness to even think about any form of military action. It's almost certain that millions in the region would die.
It's unlikely that a regime change will happen unless the CIA get to the top generals out there but that's a risky strategy with no guarantee of success with the possibility of making things worse. Assination is as unlikely because getting to Kim Jong-Un is virtually impossible without high level NK involvement.
I think that the West now needs to accept the situation and beef up defences in South Korea, Japan and on Guam. Remain vigilant and be prepared for any aggression which to be fair I think is unlikely. Pyongyang I believe just want the status of being nuclear but doesn't have any aggressive ambitions. That would be suicide. Keep up the economic pressure and seek a diplomatic solution.
A wrong move now by Trump and the world could soon be a very different place.
Interesting response from China basically saying the USA fucked up the Middle East (Iraq, Lybia and Syria) and they don't want to see their region fucked up. They went on to say NK are scared and that's why they are taking this action. If USA went home then things might calm down. I'm sure that if NK fired off a nuke to attack anyone in NATO then rain drops will quickly land on their heads. But until that happens Keep calm and support the Addicks. :0)
Genuine question, I am rather ignorant of American politics.
I stopped believing Mr. President had autonomy when the Hollywood actor was elected in the 80's.
Or maybe it was when the most popular President of the last century was assassinated in Dallas in '63.
I still don't think NK has any intention of verbally or actually threatening anyone. They want the Presteige and respect that goes with being a nuclear power. I suppose they believe that as such they are invulnerable to foreign interference.
Well that would cripple the US economy overnight given our top trading partner is China soooooooo.......
You guys I'm starting to worry that negotiating complex foreign policy is much harder than negotiating Manhattan real estate.