Pubcos (like Punch Taverns) are the biggest problem. Among landlords in my area, Punch Taverns is a dirty word.
They've driven local landlords to the brink (and beyond) with their never ending cycle of viciously high rent increases, and contracts that restrict the landlord into buying only their product at exorbitant prices.
High rents and high beer prices paid to Punch Taverns by the landlord = high beer prices to the customer, regardless of Government taxation.
Compare to the Free House publican - he can buy his beer from whomever he chooses, direct from any brewery and even his local cash & carry, wherever it's cheapest.
Now if he charges his customers high prices, then he's profiteering. But around here, the Free Houses can sell their beer cheaper than the tied pub.
No-one has mentioned the explosion in the number of coffee shops - plenty of social interactions from dates to business meetings which previously would naturally have taken place in the pub now take place in Costa or Starbucks.
There is no pressure to drink alcohol, the food options are good, they are more female-friendly than pubs, you don't run the risk of having your experienced ruined by odious drunks, and arguably they are better value too.
Really ? What sort of melon would go on a date to Costa coffee. I agree that for certain things that the coffee shop offers an alternative but I still firmly believe that the pubs demise is predominantly down to the cost of a pint.
Maybe not Costa but a posher version thereof - not everyone needs alcohol to interact with the opposite sex. The revenues they generate can't just be explained by yummy mummies with too much time on their hands and workers grabbing a morning coffee.
Margaret Thatcher's 1989 Beer Orders failed in the break up of the brewer's monopoly as it just gave rise to PubCos which went on to own an even greater share of the pubs market that the act was meant to protect from and we have all been ripped off ever since.
PubCos have been losing money for some time (recession) and their greatest asset is the property that they own. Property values have risen immensely since 1989 and so why not run them down and flog them as delelopments they'll make much more from their sale than from beer money unless they charge silly prices that people will pay
Personally, as one of the younger generations, i'm 20, I try and go to pubs as much as I can (and can afford). I go with my dad to the local which is a short walk away, and mme and my friends at home used to have a pub we frequented but now its been closed and a tesco express is going up in its place (theres a massive tesco not 5 minutes down the road and an aldi and another supermarket even closer in the other direction). For people my age they're more attracted to the idea of a bar, predrinks before a club, or a spoons, which I wouldn't really call a pub if im honest, but I spend most of my drinking time in there now because our favourite place was closed, the other places are in town are more bar-y and are way more expensive. It's ridiculous, the only way pubs make decent profit now is by selling food, the old watering holes seem to be sinking away sadly
Lots of reasons, possibly starting with the widespread introduction of domestic central heating, meaning that you didn't have to go to the pub to stay warm. Societal reasons - when I started working (I'm 47) having a couple of pints at lunch was accepted, now it's a sacking offence. Women having a bigger say in where couples go and choosing not to go to boozers. Landlords that pretty much hate everyone except their 4 friends.
These demos to save pubs. Go along and ask how many of them actually go to the pub. One near me closed a couple of years ago. For about three years before that, the place slowly died. Miserable guv'nor, tatty decor, just rubbish. After a month of it being closed, another bloke too it over, Cleaned it up, realised that there were university premises nearby, put in wi-fi, made young people feel welcome and safe when they came in and now the place is busy most nights.
Some landlords are great and some, too many, are shocking.
Pubs have to adapt to survive. The old pub only appeals to older customers and they need something else like good food and up to date look and facilities.
The British pub is alive and well......just maybe not in Britain! My local in Bangkok, The Black Swan, is a traditional British boozer. After work Brits, Thais and other nationalities head there and the countless other British pubs in the city. It is very much the done thing to pop in for a quick couple on the way home or for a roast on a Sunday.
The pub is still central to the community overseas. It still provides that vital feeling of belonging.
As a bitter drinker I think the future may be the micro-pub. I was in Tankerton last night and one has recently opened there. My parents live there and my Dad and brother had been enthusing about it. I must admit I was a bit sceptical about it but was pleasantly surprised. No music, no TV, no cooked food, no mobiles, no fruit machines. no spirits and NO LAGER! Just ale, mostly local independent stuff and real local ciders plus limited wine. It's not a micro-brewery, just basically a room that serves bloody good beer and the emphisis is on local people socialising. All a bit middle aged and middle class but then I guess that's me!
As a bitter drinker I think the future may be the micro-pub. I was in Tankerton last night and one has recently opened there. My parents live there and my Dad and brother had been enthusing about it. I must admit I was a bit sceptical about it but was pleasantly surprised. No music, no TV, no cooked food, no mobiles, no fruit machines. no spirits and NO LAGER! Just ale, mostly local independent stuff and real local ciders plus limited wine. It's not a micro-brewery, just basically a room that serves bloody good beer and the emphisis is on local people socialising. All a bit middle aged and middle class but then I guess that's me!
Some of you may be aware that the Porcupine in Mottingham has closed down and been bought by Lidl. My personal view is that the place was a dump and would rather it became a Harvester or something along those lines but 1400 people have signed a petition calling for the pub to be saved. Have Pubs had their day or what?
Thank God that shitehole has gone Baldy. Absolute pit of a pub and deservedly died.
There are lots of pubs about that do get it right though. They remember the important things like serving a decent beer and good service.
Off the top of my head..
The Pelton Arms (Maze Hill) The Red Lion (Bromley) The Sun (Carshalton)
All very different yet all absolutely spot on in their own way.
Decent pubs will survive, others need to up their game considerably and actually give a shit about their customers.
When I lived in Mottingham (up until about 21), I used to drink in the Porcupine with my mates and really liked it. We used to split our time between there and The Royal Tavern right next to Mottingham train station.
The Tavern then got bought and turned into a swanky wine bar sort of place. Everytime I have been in there since it has been completely empty.
Its all well and good 1400 people signing a petition to save The Porcupine, but they could have done their bit a little earlier by going there more regularly.
I don't go in pubs too much as most of my mates are occupied with kids and wives, and the others are more bar/club types.
You are joking of course? Three quid for a cup of coffee that has no government duty on it, in a cafe, not good value to me NY.
Some very good points made for reasons behind the demise of the pub, but one that has not been mentioned is the lack of social interaction between young ( and not so young ) people. They just don't know how to sit down and have a chat over a pint, or if they do go out they need constant entertainment be it TV, karaoke, musicians, DJs and so on.
Think its unfair that some are blaming Wetherspoons for the demise of the pub industry.....aren't they a pub chain/business that have done things the right way?
You are joking of course? Three quid for a cup of coffee that has no government duty on it, in a cafe, not good value to me NY.
Some very good points made for reasons behind the demise of the pub, but one that has not been mentioned is the lack of social interaction between young ( and not so young ) people. They just don't know how to sit down and have a chat over a pint, or if they do go out they need constant entertainment be it TV, karaoke, musicians, DJs and so on.
Completely agree. I mean, some people can't even sit and watch a football match involving their own team without wanting instant Internet access so they can tweet that they're at a football match and not watching the game! ;-)
Comments
They've driven local landlords to the brink (and beyond) with their never ending cycle of viciously high rent increases, and contracts that restrict the landlord into buying only their product at exorbitant prices.
High rents and high beer prices paid to Punch Taverns by the landlord = high beer prices to the customer, regardless of Government taxation.
Compare to the Free House publican - he can buy his beer from whomever he chooses, direct from any brewery and even his local cash & carry, wherever it's cheapest.
Now if he charges his customers high prices, then he's profiteering.
But around here, the Free Houses can sell their beer cheaper than the tied pub.
It's not a level playing field.
PubCos have been losing money for some time (recession) and their greatest asset is the property that they own. Property values have risen immensely since 1989 and so why not run them down and flog them as delelopments they'll make much more from their sale than from beer money unless they charge silly prices that people will pay
For people my age they're more attracted to the idea of a bar, predrinks before a club, or a spoons, which I wouldn't really call a pub if im honest, but I spend most of my drinking time in there now because our favourite place was closed, the other places are in town are more bar-y and are way more expensive. It's ridiculous, the only way pubs make decent profit now is by selling food, the old watering holes seem to be sinking away sadly
The goverment is a joke the way they treat pubs.
These demos to save pubs. Go along and ask how many of them actually go to the pub. One near me closed a couple of years ago. For about three years before that, the place slowly died. Miserable guv'nor, tatty decor, just rubbish. After a month of it being closed, another bloke too it over, Cleaned it up, realised that there were university premises nearby, put in wi-fi, made young people feel welcome and safe when they came in and now the place is busy most nights.
Some landlords are great and some, too many, are shocking.
All pubs should have naked ladies in them
If any woman enters the pub she should be naked
She wouldnt have to join in with the naked dancers that will be in there by law
Vote NLA
You know it makes sense
"No Lard Arse's" ?
the make up of the locals has changed--pubs dont feature in their culture/religion
the smoking ban
indirect taxation
the economy in general
drive down the Old Kent Road a mecca for a pub crawl======all gone.
Would be nice to do something to "save the boozer" but its British culture so no one gives a shit.
NLA has the answer.
The pub is still central to the community overseas. It still provides that vital feeling of belonging.
The answer to her moaning would be come with me then
But she wouldnt ever go unless she was happy being in the buff
http://www.thetankertonarms.co.uk/about/index.html
Once in to ensure i stay in power all polling booths would be in pubs so women would have to be naked when voting
There are lots of pubs about that do get it right though. They remember the important things like serving a decent beer and good service.
Off the top of my head..
The Pelton Arms (Maze Hill)
The Red Lion (Bromley)
The Sun (Carshalton)
All very different yet all absolutely spot on in their own way.
Decent pubs will survive, others need to up their game considerably and actually give a shit about their customers.
Another couple I go to which is good is the Blacksmiths in Cudham and the Tally Ho in Knockholt.
The Tavern then got bought and turned into a swanky wine bar sort of place. Everytime I have been in there since it has been completely empty.
Its all well and good 1400 people signing a petition to save The Porcupine, but they could have done their bit a little earlier by going there more regularly.
I don't go in pubs too much as most of my mates are occupied with kids and wives, and the others are more bar/club types.
Some very good points made for reasons behind the demise of the pub, but one that has not been mentioned is the lack of social interaction between young ( and not so young ) people. They just don't know how to sit down and have a chat over a pint, or if they do go out they need constant entertainment be it TV, karaoke, musicians, DJs and so on.
;-)