But apart from the odd exceptions I think more and more pubs will close due to all the reasons stated in this post of course you could argue that there was too many and supply has now outstripped demand and this is an adjustment in the market.
Does not quite work Dave, as the population in 1960 was 52 million, it's now 62 million, so it's not a numbers thing it's a culture change as you also state.
I think the reasons for this have been well covered i.e. cheap supermarket booze, smoking ban, extended hours etc. but good pubs still survive because they offer something different. We use The Robin Hood in Bexleyheath and it thrives mainly because the beer is good, the atmosphere is friendly and non-threatening as the govenor doesn't tolerate pissed up half heads and he keeps to the traditional opening hours. On top of that they serve good pub grub at sensible prices (not cheap) so all in all they have positioned themselves to be a cut above the other other pubs in the area and they prosper.
But apart from the odd exceptions I think more and more pubs will close due to all the reasons stated in this post of course you could argue that there was too many and supply has now outstripped demand and this is an adjustment in the market.
Don't forget the profiteering and asset stripping by the pubco - like Punch Taverns, who own almost 5,000 pubs in the UK.
The pubco is one of the biggest reasons why so many pubs are closing. Ask any pub landlord.
And because their policy has been to squeeze their tenanted pubs until their contracted tenants bleed, Punch Taverns latest directive is to close many more pubs - simply to cash in on property/land values.
Go along with that OGGY 100% the managers have no real interest in the establishment they run other than to maximise turnover/profit and that is a major part of the problem.
Go along with that OGGY 100% the managers have no real interest in the establishment they run other than to maximise turnover/profit and that is a major part of the problem.
I don't think this is a new thing - when I was playing pubs regularly in bands 15/20 years ago all the manager or landlord cared about was how much money came over the bar. If sales were good he'd book you again. We were a 5-piece and had a regular gig in a pub in Carshalton - one time our bassist forgot it was on and didn't turn up, so I played bass. The landlord noticed and docked a 5th of our money because there was one less in the band! You couldn't make it up!
Sorry, there was another point I wanted to make - as the numbers go down, eventually so will the quality - all the infrastructure behind it will go - breweries will stop putting beer in casks, manufacturers will stop making handpumps, etc. Then, it really is "game over".
Sorry, there was another point I wanted to make - as the numbers go down, eventually so will the quality - all the infrastructure behind it will go - breweries will stop putting beer in casks, manufacturers will stop making handpumps, etc. Then, it really is "game over".
I think you're a bit pessimistic there about ale. Micro Breweries are a growth industry and as long as micro-pubs continue to open at the rate they are, then it'll be fine.
Cllr Liam Curran @CllrCurran 2m If you value London's historic, community-sustaining pubs plse sign the petition to Save The Dutch House, Eltham! http://chn.ge/15NOZHE
Sorry, there was another point I wanted to make - as the numbers go down, eventually so will the quality - all the infrastructure behind it will go - breweries will stop putting beer in casks, manufacturers will stop making handpumps, etc. Then, it really is "game over".
The pubco (like Punch Taverns) is not a brewery .....they are a massive pub ownership company , who buy their beer from various breweries.
They have a division of pubs with managers, and another division with traditional tenanted pubs - where the landlord is self-employed, often having invested his life savings. It's these tenanted pubs, tied in to restrictive and expensive beer purchasing contracts and ever increasing high rents - that are struggling to be competitive.
Contrast with their own managed pubs, which have much lower operating costs compared with their tenanted pubs.
And of course, the Free House is a completely independent business and can buy it's beer from whoever or wherever it's cheapest.
Liam Curran is the councillor who successfully listed 4 pubs in Sydenham/Catford. They MUST be used as Public Houses only. Please help him save this one.
I think the reasons for this have been well covered i.e. cheap supermarket booze, smoking ban, extended hours etc. but good pubs still survive because they offer something different. We use The Robin Hood in Bexleyheath and it thrives mainly because the beer is good, the atmosphere is friendly and non-threatening as the govenor doesn't tolerate pissed up half heads and he keeps to the traditional opening hours. On top of that they serve good pub grub at sensible prices (not cheap) so all in all they have positioned themselves to be a cut above the other other pubs in the area and they prosper.
But apart from the odd exceptions I think more and more pubs will close due to all the reasons stated in this post of course you could argue that there was too many and supply has now outstripped demand and this is an adjustment in the market.
Small update on my plans, if anyone is interested link below. (Its manly for fund raising but also a good place for info) http://igg.me/at/eastwickham/x/3929138 I have found a place in Greenwich that is very well suited to my not very evil master plan, if you like the idea please could you pass on the link to anyone that will listen. Many thanks
I think the biggest reason is the price. The alcohol in supermarkets is so much cheaper you almost look a fool spending so much in a pub.
In my opinion, it should be the opposite. Supermarket alcohol should be expensive and the pubs very cheap. It's much easier to monitor underagers and drunken behavior in a pub.
I agree that majority of young people would rather buy alcohol from a supermarket and drink at someone's house before heading off to a club. I think this is solely down to the price. I don't think many people can afford to go to pubs all night at £4 a drink.
If pubs were a lot cheaper, I think they would become busy again. Pubs are a great social place and it's sad to see them getting driven out because of cost and, simply, corporate greed.
"Last year the Government recognised that “there is some real hardship in the pubs sector, with many pubs going to the wall as publicans are struggling to survive on tiny margins. Some of this is due to pubcos [pub companies] exploiting and squeezing their publicans by unfair practices and a focus on short-term profits."
A new pub will open in Greenwich next year. The Sail Loft will be part of the New Capital Quay development next to Deptford Creek, past Strasburger's Old Loyal Britons, just a few minutes' walk from the Cutty Sark (ship, not pub). Good news - it'll be a Fuller's tied house. Try the Chiswick Bitter for a gorgeous balance of malt and hops, or the rich and fruity Extra Special Bitter (ESB) for a drink with a kick. The only other Fuller's gig in Greenwich is the Pilot, near the O2 on the peninsula.
I think the biggest reason is the price. The alcohol in supermarkets is so much cheaper you almost look a fool spending so much in a pub.
In my opinion, it should be the opposite. Supermarket alcohol should be expensive and the pubs very cheap. It's much easier to monitor underagers and drunken behavior in a pub.
I agree that majority of young people would rather buy alcohol from a supermarket and drink at someone's house before heading off to a club. I think this is solely down to the price. I don't think many people can afford to go to pubs all night at £4 a drink.
If pubs were a lot cheaper, I think they would become busy again. Pubs are a great social place and it's sad to see them getting driven out because of cost and, simply, corporate greed.
My parents own and run a pub in Ashford (Kent) and have been saying the same thing for years, they are struggling even with a restaurant attached
Pubcos are only a symptom of the fact that economies of scale mean only tied pubs can continue running, with free houses and independment pubs fast becoming the exception rather than the rule, usually due to dedicated owners, fantastic businessmen or lucky enough to be in an area where people are willing or have to visit you on a profitable scale.
The last government allowed sin taxes such as those on petrol, alcohol and other vices to skyrocket (such as those on alcohol bought on-licence), as well as flat out refusing to give public houses any special treatment to ensure the survival as small or locally owned businesses in the face of pubcos and larger competitors, pretty much putting them in the same bracket as late night clubs and lap dancing bars as places of vice and sin. Pubs are basically being killed by expensive regulation and high costs and taxes that only large firms are able to absorb without having to raise prices as the tap. Pubs have two choices - raise prices and lose customers to cheaper pubcos, supermarkets or going teetotal, or stay competitive and have the staff work longer & harder for less money or go out of business. Some of the quality independent pubs I know will be part of 3 to 6 pubs run by the same person or family locally and are generally pricier but you get a better experience than a Spoons or a Smith & Jones.
Pubcos are only a symptom of the fact that economies of scale mean only tied pubs can continue running, with free houses and independment pubs fast becoming the exception rather than the rule, usually due to dedicated owners, fantastic businessmen or lucky enough to be in an area where people are willing or have to visit you on a profitable scale.
The last government allowed sin taxes such as those on petrol, alcohol and other vices to skyrocket (such as those on alcohol bought on-licence), as well as flat out refusing to give public houses any special treatment to ensure the survival as small or locally owned businesses in the face of pubcos and larger competitors, pretty much putting them in the same bracket as late night clubs and lap dancing bars as places of vice and sin. Pubs are basically being killed by expensive regulation and high costs and taxes that only large firms are able to absorb without having to raise prices as the tap. Pubs have two choices - raise prices and lose customers to cheaper pubcos, supermarkets or going teetotal, or stay competitive and have the staff work longer & harder for less money or go out of business. Some of the quality independent pubs I know will be part of 3 to 6 pubs run by the same person or family locally and are generally pricier but you get a better experience than a Spoons or a Smith & Jones.
Of course, Weatherspoons with their heavily discounted beers are a threat to the individual landlord, who is tied to a pubco.
But by pubco, we're not talking about Spoonies and their ilk - but companies like Punch Taverns for example, which has bought up many pubs that previously were owned by individual breweries.
As said in another post, these pubco's force their tenant landlords to buy their beer stocks only from them and expensively priced - their tenant landlord has then to add his margin to the price, if he is to make any living from his business.
On the other hand, Free Houses (as the name implies), are completely independent of any pubco or ties, and are able to buy their beer wherever it's cheapest - and can choose to undercut prices of a pubco's tenant landlord.
Comments
Brewery monopoly - bad
Don't forget the profiteering and asset stripping by the pubco - like Punch Taverns, who own almost 5,000 pubs in the UK.
The pubco is one of the biggest reasons why so many pubs are closing. Ask any pub landlord.
And because their policy has been to squeeze their tenanted pubs until their contracted tenants bleed, Punch Taverns latest directive is to close many more pubs - simply to cash in on property/land values.
If you value London's historic, community-sustaining pubs plse sign the petition to Save The Dutch House, Eltham!
http://chn.ge/15NOZHE
They have a division of pubs with managers, and another division with traditional tenanted pubs - where the landlord is self-employed, often having invested his life savings. It's these tenanted pubs, tied in to restrictive and expensive beer purchasing contracts and ever increasing high rents - that are struggling to be competitive.
Contrast with their own managed pubs, which have much lower operating costs compared with their tenanted pubs.
And of course, the Free House is a completely independent business and can buy it's beer from whoever or wherever it's cheapest.
It's not a level playing field.
https://www.change.org/petitions/royal-borough-of-greenwich-save-the-dutch-house-pub-in-eltham-from-being-turned-into-a-mcdonalds?utm_campaign=mailto_link&utm_medium=email&utm_source=share_petition
Former pubs minister Bob Neill has told supermarket chain Lidl to “take your supermarket somewhere else” during a protest to save the Porcupine in Mottingham, in south-east London.
http://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/General-News/Former-pubs-minister-Bob-Neill-slams-Lidl-over-Porcupine-pub-closure
http://igg.me/at/eastwickham/x/3929138
I have found a place in Greenwich that is very well suited to my not very evil master plan, if you like the idea please could you pass on the link to anyone that will listen. Many thanks
In my opinion, it should be the opposite. Supermarket alcohol should be expensive and the pubs very cheap. It's much easier to monitor underagers and drunken behavior in a pub.
I agree that majority of young people would rather buy alcohol from a supermarket and drink at someone's house before heading off to a club. I think this is solely down to the price. I don't think many people can afford to go to pubs all night at £4 a drink.
If pubs were a lot cheaper, I think they would become busy again. Pubs are a great social place and it's sad to see them getting driven out because of cost and, simply, corporate greed.
"Last year the Government recognised that “there is some real hardship in the pubs sector, with many pubs going to the wall as publicans are struggling to survive on tiny margins. Some of this is due to pubcos [pub companies] exploiting and squeezing their publicans by unfair practices and a focus on short-term profits."
The last government allowed sin taxes such as those on petrol, alcohol and other vices to skyrocket (such as those on alcohol bought on-licence), as well as flat out refusing to give public houses any special treatment to ensure the survival as small or locally owned businesses in the face of pubcos and larger competitors, pretty much putting them in the same bracket as late night clubs and lap dancing bars as places of vice and sin. Pubs are basically being killed by expensive regulation and high costs and taxes that only large firms are able to absorb without having to raise prices as the tap. Pubs have two choices - raise prices and lose customers to cheaper pubcos, supermarkets or going teetotal, or stay competitive and have the staff work longer & harder for less money or go out of business. Some of the quality independent pubs I know will be part of 3 to 6 pubs run by the same person or family locally and are generally pricier but you get a better experience than a Spoons or a Smith & Jones.
But by pubco, we're not talking about Spoonies and their ilk - but companies like Punch Taverns for example, which has bought up many pubs that previously were owned by individual breweries.
As said in another post, these pubco's force their tenant landlords to buy their beer stocks only from them and expensively priced - their tenant landlord has then to add his margin to the price, if he is to make any living from his business.
On the other hand, Free Houses (as the name implies), are completely independent of any pubco or ties, and are able to buy their beer wherever it's cheapest - and can choose to undercut prices of a pubco's tenant landlord.
It's not a level playing field.