Look at the only teams with any chance of winning anything in the Prem Man U, Man C and Chelsea. Only one of those have earned the right to be there, the others have paid to be there. Like it or not, it's how it is.....
Yep, ok. So what then is Arsene Wenger supposed to do?
If only 3 teams can win anything, why is Wenger getting stick for not winning anything??
The only reason he 'has' to sell his players is because they all want to leave and thats his & the boards fault for thinking they could get away with replacing there legends on the cheap.
They wont be selling many more top players because they dont really have any left. If Stan and Wenger are willing to grow a pair and try bring in some proper talent then they could be back on the up very soon. Its about time they stopped buying Giroud's and Koscielny's.
But where do his best players go to? Clubs that have horrendous debt or are being funded by Oligarchs or Arabs.
Wenger will not pay crazy wages because he knows they are unsustainable in the long term.
= Empty trophy cabinet
= A club that doesn't need a billionaire owner to survive - and who could fuck off at any minute once he is bored - and a club which can easily compete under FFP rules.
= Fans with the hump
I'm not saying its right or that I agree with it, but in the fickle world of football, thats how it works imo.
Well, you're right about the fans having the hump!
Tbqh, if I was a Gooner and I see my team and manager celebrating like that for 4th place, I'd be fuming!
@ Ormiston - The lazy old cliché about my 'sparkling successes (sic)' that I have enjoyed in my life.I don't have to have won the Premier League to ' . . . cast such aspersions on a man like Arsene Wenger.'A football forum is full of such comments made about players and managers by people who have never played the game or managed at a professional level,yourself included.
Wenger's Arsenal is a team lauded for playing attractive football but this is always tempered by legitimate accusations of them 'not fancying it' when the opposition takes a more robust approach. I remember an interview with Wenger when his team had gone out of the CL and he stated that it was a deep psychological blow for the team and it would take them many weeks to recover . . . what sort of message did this send out to his players? Can you imagine Fergie - a winner and Wenger's nemesis - saying the same?The man's even complained that other teams seem intent on preventing Arsenal from playing.
The manager is the catalyst for a team's spirit and attitude. Wenger's apologist attitude along with his deluded victim's stance and unaccountability for his own failure only serves to compound the delicate nature of his wards.
@ Ormiston - The lazy old cliché about my 'sparkling successes (sic)' that I have enjoyed in my life.I don't have to have won the Premier League to ' . . . cast such aspersions on a man like Arsene Wenger.'A football forum is full of such comments made about players and managers by people who have never played the game or managed at a professional level,yourself included.
Wenger's Arsenal is a team lauded for playing attractive football but this is always tempered by legitimate accusations of them 'not fancying it' when the opposition takes a more robust approach. I remember an interview with Wenger when his team had gone out of the CL and he stated that it was a deep psychological blow for the team and it would take them many weeks to recover . . . what sort of message did this send out to his players? Can you imagine Fergie - a winner and Wenger's nemesis - saying the same?The man's even complained that other teams seem intent on preventing Arsenal from playing.
The manager is the catalyst for a team's spirit and attitude. Wenger's apologist attitude along with his deluded victim's stance and unaccountability for his own failure only serves to compound the delicate nature of his wards.
No mettle,no backbone,no trophies.
So you think he's changed as a man and a manager since winning all those trophys with arsenal, and even going a PL season unbeaten?
Whats changed is that other teams have had vast investment (mainly man utd, chelsea and man city) but Arsenal have been paying off a stadium. The investment never came for arsenal and players like Nasri, Fabregas and RVP jumped ship.
To finish just 3 points of Chelsea and 6 off Man City is an achievement IMO.
With a bit of spending this summer (they have offered £27m for the Fiorentina striker) i think they could give it a real go next year. They've got the manager for the job, thats for sure.
Wages paid are the greatest indicator of potential success, and managers should be judged in relation to the budget they receive and are allowed to spend. Wenger for some time has not been able to compete in financial terms with Chelsea and Man United, and now Man City. He has consistently managed to get his team to finish in the league at or above the position that could be realistically be expected. An excellent manager.
@ Ormiston - The lazy old cliché about my 'sparkling successes (sic)' that I have enjoyed in my life.I don't have to have won the Premier League to ' . . . cast such aspersions on a man like Arsene Wenger.'A football forum is full of such comments made about players and managers by people who have never played the game or managed at a professional level,yourself included.
Wenger's Arsenal is a team lauded for playing attractive football but this is always tempered by legitimate accusations of them 'not fancying it' when the opposition takes a more robust approach. I remember an interview with Wenger when his team had gone out of the CL and he stated that it was a deep psychological blow for the team and it would take them many weeks to recover . . . what sort of message did this send out to his players? Can you imagine Fergie - a winner and Wenger's nemesis - saying the same?The man's even complained that other teams seem intent on preventing Arsenal from playing.
The manager is the catalyst for a team's spirit and attitude. Wenger's apologist attitude along with his deluded victim's stance and unaccountability for his own failure only serves to compound the delicate nature of his wards.
No mettle,no backbone,no trophies.
So you think he's changed as a man and a manager since winning all those trophys with arsenal, and even going a PL season unbeaten?
Whats changed is that other teams have had vast investment (mainly man utd, chelsea and man city) but Arsenal have been paying off a stadium. The investment never came for arsenal and players like Nasri, Fabregas and RVP jumped ship.
To finish just 3 points of Chelsea and 6 off Man City is an achievement IMO.
With a bit of spending this summer (they have offered £27m for the Fiorentina striker) i think they could give it a real go next year. They've got the manager for the job, thats for sure.
Thanks for answering better than I could have done, well said.
Wenger is often graceless, that's for sure, but he is an outstanding figure in our game and although he is by no means above criticism he deserves more respect than he is getting from some on here.
If you asked Arsenal fans whether they'd take Champions League football or 10th place + the League Cup, they'd bite your hand off for Champions League.
The game has changed, teams at the top are no longer worried about domestic trophies. It's all about the big two (Premier League and Champions League).
If you asked Arsenal fans whether they'd take Champions League football or 10th place + the League Cup, they'd bite your hand off for Champions League.
The game has changed, teams at the top are no longer worried about domestic trophies. It's all about the big two (Premier League and Champions League).
@ Ormiston - The lazy old cliché about my 'sparkling successes (sic)' that I have enjoyed in my life.I don't have to have won the Premier League to ' . . . cast such aspersions on a man like Arsene Wenger.'A football forum is full of such comments made about players and managers by people who have never played the game or managed at a professional level,yourself included.
Wenger's Arsenal is a team lauded for playing attractive football but this is always tempered by legitimate accusations of them 'not fancying it' when the opposition takes a more robust approach. I remember an interview with Wenger when his team had gone out of the CL and he stated that it was a deep psychological blow for the team and it would take them many weeks to recover . . . what sort of message did this send out to his players? Can you imagine Fergie - a winner and Wenger's nemesis - saying the same?The man's even complained that other teams seem intent on preventing Arsenal from playing.
The manager is the catalyst for a team's spirit and attitude. Wenger's apologist attitude along with his deluded victim's stance and unaccountability for his own failure only serves to compound the delicate nature of his wards.
No mettle,no backbone,no trophies.
So you think he's changed as a man and a manager since winning all those trophys with arsenal, and even going a PL season unbeaten?
Whats changed is that other teams have had vast investment (mainly man utd, chelsea and man city) but Arsenal have been paying off a stadium. The investment never came for arsenal and players like Nasri, Fabregas and RVP jumped ship.
To finish just 3 points of Chelsea and 6 off Man City is an achievement IMO.
With a bit of spending this summer (they have offered £27m for the Fiorentina striker) i think they could give it a real go next year. They've got the manager for the job, thats for sure.
Thanks for answering better than I could have done, well said.
Wenger is often graceless, that's for sure, but he is an outstanding figure in our game and although he is by no means above criticism he deserves more respect than he is getting from some on here.
Exactly. This is by no means meant to be a Wenger/Arsenal love in, but it just worrys me that football fans are now starting to think like clueless kneejerk moneymen owners and think that all managers should be judged by silverware, when sometimes a look at the bigger picture is needed.
No one can dispute that Wenger has done a very fine job for Arsenal. A lot of his early success was predicated upon snapping up the best players in France and elsewhere in the world and one of his problems now is that all the other big clubs have caught up in terms of scouting networks etc. That advantage has, therefore, been largely eradicated and Arsenal can no longer compete - at least at present - with what he terms " the financial dopers."
Absolutely imperative for them that they retain Jack Wilshire and start getting some real quality around him, or there will be too much pressure on him. Some of the recent signings have been very disappointing.
It seems with Wenger nowadays, for every good signing (Arteta, Cazorla) there's about 10 poor players that wouldn't get into the first team on at least 40,000 a week.
Don't buy the Wenger bashing myself, nor the whole "Man City and Chelsea have bought their way to the titles but Man United haven't" bullshit as well, Ferdinand, Rooney, Jones, Ronaldo, Anderson, Rafael, Fabio, Vidic, De Gea, Van Persie, Nani, Valencia et al all cost money, and not nominal sums at that!
Anyway, Wenger has been very prudent in his spending and it shows, people like Chamakh, Andre Santos, Ramsey, Arteta, Mertesacker and Park Chu Young aren't good enough for a team going for titles, but if he spends some money this season they could be a big force once again.
He needs to but 2 decent strikers, a midfield general, a new centre back and a top keeper to really bring Arsenal back to the level they need to be to win trophies, the problem is the other teams with stronger squads will still be buying players too, and when you have the likes of Hazard, Aguero, Van Persie, Kompany, Vidic and Cech in your team it's a lot easier to entice Johnny Foreigner to you with a massive wedge of Euros
If you asked Arsenal fans whether they'd take Champions League football or 10th place + the League Cup, they'd bite your hand off for Champions League.
The game has changed, teams at the top are no longer worried about domestic trophies. It's all about the big two (Premier League and Champions League).
I mentionned this on another thread: it seems to me that the fans of such clubs have been brainwashed somewhat by this frenzy of qualifying for the Champions League. What's the point if you don't stand a chance of winning it? Let's be frank: what chance do Arsenal stand of getting past the quarter finals? - about the same as England in 2014 I reckon.
Surely it makes more sense to try to win the competitions that you are already taking part in than obsess about qualifying for another one. If it were Charlton I'd rather us do what Swansea have done this season than do as Arsenal have done.
Admittedly, the idea of Champions League football at The Valley is exciting but if we'd had it for 15 years without winning anything, I'd be thinking, 'sod this - let's just get our hands on something - anything - for heaven's sake - to hell with getting knocked out in the group stages - let's go for the FA Cup.'
If you asked Arsenal fans whether they'd take Champions League football or 10th place + the League Cup, they'd bite your hand off for Champions League.
The game has changed, teams at the top are no longer worried about domestic trophies. It's all about the big two (Premier League and Champions League).
I mentionned this on another thread: it seems to me that the fans of such clubs have been brainwashed somewhat by this frenzy of qualifying for the Champions League. What's the point if you don't stand a chance of winning it? Let's be frank: what chance do Arsenal stand of getting past the quarter finals? - about the same as England in 2014 I reckon.
Surely it makes more sense to try to win the competitions that you are already taking part in than obsess about qualifying for another one. If it were Charlton I'd rather us do what Swansea have done this season than do as Arsenal have done.
Admittedly, the idea of Champions League football at The Valley is exciting but if we'd had it for 15 years without winning anything, I'd be thinking, 'sod this - let's just get our hands on something - anything - for heaven's sake - to hell with getting knocked out in the group stages - let's go for the FA Cup.'
But then to a club like Arsenal. The league cup has been shown to mean nothing. Arsenal fielding clearly weakened squads in almost every game in the tournament is basically telling the fans that the competition is worthless.
It's like if we won the Johnstone's paint trophy, sure it would be nice, but it's hardly an FA Cup.
It's all about a top 4 four finish to bring in much needed finance to pay for the stadium, nothing wrong with that but the fans are paying top dollar for tickets and not winning any trophy's.
Will Arsenal win a Champions league don't put any money on it.
It's all about a top 4 four finish to bring in much needed finance to pay for the stadium, nothing wrong with that but the fans are paying top dollar for tickets and not winning any trophy's.
Will Arsenal win a Champions league don't put any money on it.
Not just the stadium, the big clubs need to be in the CL to be able to attract the best players and its a huge financial advantage too as the Europa League is getting seen very much as a second-class competition.
Don't buy the Wenger bashing myself, nor the whole "Man City and Chelsea have bought their way to the titles but Man United haven't" bullshit as well, Ferdinand, Rooney, Jones, Ronaldo, Anderson, Rafael, Fabio, Vidic, De Gea, Van Persie, Nani, Valencia et al all cost money, and not nominal sums at that!
Not saying that Man U haven't spent big, but their climb to the top was a touch more organic than Chelsea and Man C wouldn't you say?
I can see both sides of the fence, not lashing loads of money they haven't got is too be commended.
That said if I was paying £2000 a season ticket or whatever it is these days, and my team weren't competing with the very best I'd be pretty peed off.
Given the circumstances 16 or 17 seasons of continuous champions league is pretty impressive.
I just don't know where Wenger thinks he is taking Arsenal though.
If the Arsenal board have got any ambition of winning trophies next season they should either back him financially or kindly ask him to move aside, most clubs would have sacked their manager by now.
I was a Wenger fan, but got the hump with him for his refusal to buy / play English players, which has changed around recently, I wonder if he's done it to appease the fans?
He'll probably say they weren't good enough, he has not and nor should he done many favours for the English team over the years, at least Fergie has had a few, for that reason alone I'd like him to go.
This is really the first pre season that Arsenal can't really be said to be in transition, don't look like losing a massive player and might have decent money to spend. Add to that the fact that the top of the Prem is in flux then this is the season for Wenger to prove he's still a winner and not just a fourth place finisher.
If you asked Arsenal fans whether they'd take Champions League football or 10th place + the League Cup, they'd bite your hand off for Champions League.
The game has changed, teams at the top are no longer worried about domestic trophies. It's all about the big two (Premier League and Champions League).
I mentionned this on another thread: it seems to me that the fans of such clubs have been brainwashed somewhat by this frenzy of qualifying for the Champions League. What's the point if you don't stand a chance of winning it? Let's be frank: what chance do Arsenal stand of getting past the quarter finals? - about the same as England in 2014 I reckon.
Surely it makes more sense to try to win the competitions that you are already taking part in than obsess about qualifying for another one. If it were Charlton I'd rather us do what Swansea have done this season than do as Arsenal have done.
Admittedly, the idea of Champions League football at The Valley is exciting but if we'd had it for 15 years without winning anything, I'd be thinking, 'sod this - let's just get our hands on something - anything - for heaven's sake - to hell with getting knocked out in the group stages - let's go for the FA Cup.'
But then to a club like Arsenal. The league cup has been shown to mean nothing. Arsenal fielding clearly weakened squads in almost every game in the tournament is basically telling the fans that the competition is worthless.
It's like if we won the Johnstone's paint trophy, sure it would be nice, but it's hardly an FA Cup.
Aaah, but you said it yourself: 'is basically telling the fans that the competition is worthless' It's a form of brainwashing. I don't remember the Arsenal fans thinking of it as worthless when they won it. Don't they even have the dates of League Cup victories plastered around that swanky stupid bastard ground of theirs.
Lastly, you can't compare either the FA Cup or League Cup to a stupid competition that doesn't even involve the two top divisions. A competition that didn't even exist on our 20th Century séjours in Division 3.
I don't like him and don't feel the need to show him some respect! For what? Winning nothing in 8 years, never seeing any fault in his own players but see's everything else. No thanks, I will save my respect for someone that deserves it. As for him just needing a striker and they will win something, didn't they have RVP the season before last? And if i'm not mistaken they won sod all. Or is he not a good enough forward, also their football isn't that attractive anymore, spurs is much nicer to watch. It's not knee jerk to think every dog as its day.......... Sadly Mr Wengers had his.
I don't like him and don't feel the need to show him some respect! For what? Winning nothing in 8 years, never seeing any fault in his own players but see's everything else. No thanks, I will sae my respect for someone that deserves it. As for him just needing a striker and they will win something, didn't they have RVP the season before last? And if i'm not mistaken they won sod all. Or is he not a good enough forward, also there football isn't that attractive anymore, spurs is much nicer to watch. It's not knee jerk to think every dog as its day.......... Sadly Mr Wengers had his.
Comments
If only 3 teams can win anything, why is Wenger getting stick for not winning anything??
Wenger's Arsenal is a team lauded for playing attractive football but this is always tempered by legitimate accusations of them 'not fancying it' when the opposition takes a more robust approach.
I remember an interview with Wenger when his team had gone out of the CL and he stated that it was a deep psychological blow for the team and it would take them many weeks to recover . . . what sort of message did this send out to his players? Can you imagine Fergie - a winner and Wenger's nemesis - saying the same?The man's even complained that other teams seem intent on preventing Arsenal from playing.
The manager is the catalyst for a team's spirit and attitude. Wenger's apologist attitude along with his deluded victim's stance and unaccountability for his own failure only serves to compound the delicate nature of his wards.
No mettle,no backbone,no trophies.
Whats changed is that other teams have had vast investment (mainly man utd, chelsea and man city) but Arsenal have been paying off a stadium. The investment never came for arsenal and players like Nasri, Fabregas and RVP jumped ship.
To finish just 3 points of Chelsea and 6 off Man City is an achievement IMO.
With a bit of spending this summer (they have offered £27m for the Fiorentina striker) i think they could give it a real go next year. They've got the manager for the job, thats for sure.
Wages paid are the greatest indicator of potential success, and managers should be judged in relation to the budget they receive and are allowed to spend. Wenger for some time has not been able to compete in financial terms with Chelsea and Man United, and now Man City. He has consistently managed to get his team to finish in the league at or above the position that could be realistically be expected. An excellent manager.
Wenger is often graceless, that's for sure, but he is an outstanding figure in our game and although he is by no means above criticism he deserves more respect than he is getting from some on here.
The game has changed, teams at the top are no longer worried about domestic trophies. It's all about the big two (Premier League and Champions League).
Absolutely imperative for them that they retain Jack Wilshire and start getting some real quality around him, or there will be too much pressure on him. Some of the recent signings have been very disappointing.
Anyway, Wenger has been very prudent in his spending and it shows, people like Chamakh, Andre Santos, Ramsey, Arteta, Mertesacker and Park Chu Young aren't good enough for a team going for titles, but if he spends some money this season they could be a big force once again.
He needs to but 2 decent strikers, a midfield general, a new centre back and a top keeper to really bring Arsenal back to the level they need to be to win trophies, the problem is the other teams with stronger squads will still be buying players too, and when you have the likes of Hazard, Aguero, Van Persie, Kompany, Vidic and Cech in your team it's a lot easier to entice Johnny Foreigner to you with a massive wedge of Euros
Surely it makes more sense to try to win the competitions that you are already taking part in than obsess about qualifying for another one. If it were Charlton I'd rather us do what Swansea have done this season than do as Arsenal have done.
Admittedly, the idea of Champions League football at The Valley is exciting but if we'd had it for 15 years without winning anything, I'd be thinking, 'sod this - let's just get our hands on something - anything - for heaven's sake - to hell with getting knocked out in the group stages - let's go for the FA Cup.'
It's like if we won the Johnstone's paint trophy, sure it would be nice, but it's hardly an FA Cup.
Thank heavens we're no longer eligible for the Johnstone's piss-pot.
A cabinet
Will Arsenal win a Champions league don't put any money on it.
http://m.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/may/26/arsenal-bristol-academy-womens-fa-cup-final
That said if I was paying £2000 a season ticket or whatever it is these days, and my team weren't competing with the very best I'd be pretty peed off.
Given the circumstances 16 or 17 seasons of continuous champions league is pretty impressive.
I just don't know where Wenger thinks he is taking Arsenal though.
If the Arsenal board have got any ambition of winning trophies next season they should either back him financially or kindly ask him to move aside, most clubs would have sacked their manager by now.
I was a Wenger fan, but got the hump with him for his refusal to buy / play English players, which has changed around recently, I wonder if he's done it to appease the fans?
He'll probably say they weren't good enough, he has not and nor should he done many favours for the English team over the years, at least Fergie has had a few, for that reason alone I'd like him to go.
Lastly, you can't compare either the FA Cup or League Cup to a stupid competition that doesn't even involve the two top divisions. A competition that didn't even exist on our 20th Century séjours in Division 3.