I doubt it based on the published figures around the deadline, although I'd hope we will hit that number by the end of August latest, assuming we sign some players.
Thanks AB - but I thought the club announced that around 8,000 had taken up the option to buy before the price increase. Therefore assumed that maybe around a 1,000 since then? Agree that a signing or two would definitely help tho'.
On July 4th last year we had 10,450 paid season tickets, up from 9,539 at the end of April. We hit 11,000 at the start of the season.
From recollection the figure given by the club in April was about 8,000, so on that basis we should be at 9,000-plus, but I think the early summer sales last year were larger than usual because we had just won promotion.
Nothwithstanding the price increases, I think it would be disappointing not to hit 10,000 in the end.
That figure of 11,000 season ticket holders at the start of last season seems surprisingly low. What was the average gate - about 18,500? If 1500 were away fans, then we had 6,000 walk-up payers at each game. Are there any stats to show how many of these were regulars? - It seems unlikely that there was a massive turnover from one game to the next.
I doubt it based on the published figures around the deadline, although I'd hope we will hit that number by the end of August latest, assuming we sign some players.
Thanks AB - but I thought the club announced that around 8,000 had taken up the option to buy before the price increase. Therefore assumed that maybe around a 1,000 since then? Agree that a signing or two would definitely help tho'.
On July 4th last year we had 10,450 paid season tickets, up from 9,539 at the end of April. We hit 11,000 at the start of the season.
From recollection the figure given by the club in April was about 8,000, so on that basis we should be at 9,000-plus, but I think the early summer sales last year were larger than usual because we had just won promotion.
Nothwithstanding the price increases, I think it would be disappointing not to hit 10,000 in the end.
That figure of 11,000 season ticket holders at the start of last season seems surprisingly low. What was the average gate - about 18,500? If 1500 were away fans, then we had 6,000 walk-up payers at each game. Are there any stats to show how many of these were regulars? - It seems unlikely that there was a massive turnover from one game to the next.
Theres an ongoing debate on the forum as to the legitimacy of some of the announced attendances from last season. The consensus is we give out pantloads of free comps and still count absent ST holders in the final figures.
Counting absent ST holders is standard practice and makes some sense. We do give out quite a few comps to local schools and the like, and they are counted.
I doubt it based on the published figures around the deadline, although I'd hope we will hit that number by the end of August latest, assuming we sign some players.
Thanks AB - but I thought the club announced that around 8,000 had taken up the option to buy before the price increase. Therefore assumed that maybe around a 1,000 since then? Agree that a signing or two would definitely help tho'.
On July 4th last year we had 10,450 paid season tickets, up from 9,539 at the end of April. We hit 11,000 at the start of the season.
From recollection the figure given by the club in April was about 8,000, so on that basis we should be at 9,000-plus, but I think the early summer sales last year were larger than usual because we had just won promotion.
Nothwithstanding the price increases, I think it would be disappointing not to hit 10,000 in the end.
That figure of 11,000 season ticket holders at the start of last season seems surprisingly low. What was the average gate - about 18,500? If 1500 were away fans, then we had 6,000 walk-up payers at each game. Are there any stats to show how many of these were regulars? - It seems unlikely that there was a massive turnover from one game to the next.
Airman Brown (Rick Everitt) was the Club Development Manager so knew exactly how many ST holders, comps, aways etc etc etc there were. I have seen the very detailed spreadsheets to prove it : - )
I doubt it based on the published figures around the deadline, although I'd hope we will hit that number by the end of August latest, assuming we sign some players.
Thanks AB - but I thought the club announced that around 8,000 had taken up the option to buy before the price increase. Therefore assumed that maybe around a 1,000 since then? Agree that a signing or two would definitely help tho'.
On July 4th last year we had 10,450 paid season tickets, up from 9,539 at the end of April. We hit 11,000 at the start of the season.
From recollection the figure given by the club in April was about 8,000, so on that basis we should be at 9,000-plus, but I think the early summer sales last year were larger than usual because we had just won promotion.
Nothwithstanding the price increases, I think it would be disappointing not to hit 10,000 in the end.
That figure of 11,000 season ticket holders at the start of last season seems surprisingly low. What was the average gate - about 18,500? If 1500 were away fans, then we had 6,000 walk-up payers at each game. Are there any stats to show how many of these were regulars? - It seems unlikely that there was a massive turnover from one game to the next.
Theres an ongoing debate on the forum as to the legitimacy of some of the announced attendances from last season. The consensus is we give out pantloads of free comps and still count absent ST holders in the final figures.
When attendances have been discussed on the forum some people dont think free comps and absent ST holders should be counted.
Personally Im not that bothered. Absent ST holders is a weird one, as much as theyve paid for the game they arent here, so they havent "attended", so I dont think they should be counted. Free comps being counted is fine by me, theyre here so have them counted.
Except there are occassions (please correct me if i'm wrong Airman), namely when potential investors are in town, where the free comp batch is significantly widened, and they are included in the 'attendence' whether the bothered to turn up or not.
Thus why when the attendance is announced as being 20k+, you get people looking around in bewilderment and laughing.
Except there are occassions (please correct me if i'm wrong Airman), namely when potential investors are in town, where the free comp batch is significantly widened, and they are included in the 'attendence' whether the bothered to turn up or not.
Thus why when the attendance is announced as being 20k+, you get people looking around in bewilderment and laughing.
That's true. The average home match ticket sale is about 3,000 and average away sale 1,500. The (normal price) home sale might go under 2,000 for an evening match - in League One we sometimes got down to 1,000 - or up to 4,500 for a big game (very, very rarely it reached 5,000, say for Palace).
This can be boosted by targeted offers but it's difficult to add much more than 1,000.
Everything else is comps - up to 5,000 at one game last season. That's a recklessly stupid number and only ever done to inflate the published attendance.
The club has started calling lapsed season ticket holders, which is good practice and what we have done in previous years.
It makes sense to count anybody who has a ticket which includes all season ticket holders. I think that is the simplest way to show an attendance and why make it harder?
Given the actual performance on the pitch and that the club have taken another massive step on the journey back to the Premier League these numbers have got to be disappointing! Surely the numbers should be up but then there hasn't been a massive marketing/promotion effort - perhaps CAFC might engage with supporters and the Trust to rethink how to fill the Valley?
Fans like excitement and interest because, let's face it they are not going for pure skill / entertainment which is available 24/7 on Sky, BT and Al Jazeera etc.
The supporters are keen for the Trust to engage with CAFC and work out how to promote the club so if anyone has suggestions please inbox
I think if the sales reach 10,000 then that is probably in line with what I'd have predicted against what were substantial (but not unjustified) price rises. Revenue will be up, which is the objective of the price rises.
What the very high number of non-attending season ticket holders should have told the club is that there was a cohort of people who would not get value at the higher price and would therefore lapse. The question, which is an open one, is whether the club is better off leaving them to buy match to match.
I don't think the likely decline has much to do with the marketing, to be honest. It may be affected by transfer activity, if any. But I'm told nothing is happening at present.
I doubt it based on the published figures around the deadline, although I'd hope we will hit that number by the end of August latest, assuming we sign some players.
Thanks AB - but I thought the club announced that around 8,000 had taken up the option to buy before the price increase. Therefore assumed that maybe around a 1,000 since then? Agree that a signing or two would definitely help tho'.
On July 4th last year we had 10,450 paid season tickets, up from 9,539 at the end of April. We hit 11,000 at the start of the season.
From recollection the figure given by the club in April was about 8,000, so on that basis we should be at 9,000-plus, but I think the early summer sales last year were larger than usual because we had just won promotion.
Nothwithstanding the price increases, I think it would be disappointing not to hit 10,000 in the end.
That figure of 11,000 season ticket holders at the start of last season seems surprisingly low. What was the average gate - about 18,500? If 1500 were away fans, then we had 6,000 walk-up payers at each game. Are there any stats to show how many of these were regulars? - It seems unlikely that there was a massive turnover from one game to the next.
Airman Brown (Rick Everitt) was the Club Development Manager so knew exactly how many ST holders, comps, aways etc etc etc there were. I have seen the very detailed spreadsheets to prove it : - )
Airman's rough comparison of 11,000 STs sold at the start of last season and an estimate of 10,000 at the start of this, is slightly depressing. An increase after promotion is logical, but a decrease after finishing 9th is more difficult to explain. Of course there may be a surge if we start the season well, but I wonder if more could be done to encourage casual visitors. What would be the effect on revenue and attendances if walk-up prices were reduced by, say, 15 per cent? Is there scope for offering more matches for a tenner, without alienating ST holders? I'm trying to think of ways of boosting the atmosphere - some of those games last season were deathly quiet - though I suspect this is more of a cultural and sociological problem that has been discussed elsewhere on this forum. Any ideas?
Im a season ticket holder and the only other person that I can drag to games with me regularly is my girlfriend. I cant afford to bring her to every game so it tends to just be the special offer (ie the £10 games) games I get her to. I would love to buy her a season ticket as well but theres is no incentive to buy 2 adult tickets together, no discount or anything. £30 or £40 off another ST when bought with mine and Id be tempted....
It makes sense to count anybody who has a ticket which includes all season ticket holders. I think that is the simplest way to show an attendance and why make it harder?
I agree. The problem is that if you are issuing large numbers of tickets with no cash value to people who do not use them - and a majority of comps are usually unused - compounded by a couple of thousand unused season tickets, the official attendance is so far adrift from the reality as to appear fraudulent.
Whilst we did pick up at the end – the abject home form last season made the overall experience less enjoyable and for a few less committed souls at least, I suspect this was a factor. I think many of these will buy match to match and possibly sign up to later deals if our form is sufficiently encouraging.
I suspect that another factor is that whilst the differential always has to be there. If you have to miss a few home games for various reasons, and with offers for others, you may not really be that better off buying a season ticket and finding the money up front in these difficult times is an issue even if you can take up the payment plan – but this ends up costing more. It is a difficult balancing act for the club. The other big reason for buying season tickets is priority – but as the Valley is never full and a season ticket doesn’t guarantee you a limited away ticket – that benefit is not as marked as it would be if we had a smaller ground or were in the Premiership.
I buy a Season Ticket for my family and me because as I can and because I think it helps the club. When I started buying season tickets, it was to ensure I didn’t miss any games!
It makes sense to count anybody who has a ticket which includes all season ticket holders. I think that is the simplest way to show an attendance and why make it harder?
I agree. The problem is that if you are issuing large numbers of tickets with no cash value to people who do not use them - and a majority of comps are usually unused - compounded by a couple of thousand unused season tickets, the official attendance is so far adrift from the reality as to appear fraudulent.
Exactly. In theory we could have 10,000 people with a season ticket and no one turns up. So a crowd thats announced as 10K and the stadium is empty....
It makes sense to count anybody who has a ticket which includes all season ticket holders. I think that is the simplest way to show an attendance and why make it harder?
I agree. The problem is that if you are issuing large numbers of tickets with no cash value to people who do not use them - and a majority of comps are usually unused - compounded by a couple of thousand unused season tickets, the official attendance is so far adrift from the reality as to appear fraudulent.
Exactly. In theory we could have 10,000 people with a season ticket and no one turns up. So a crowd thats announced as 10K and the stadium is empty....
But I think as the prices go up - and unless we are relegated i believe they will again next year - you will find the number of "marginal" season ticket purchases dropping and therefore the gap in that respect will close.
I wonder if more could be done to encourage casual visitors. What would be the effect on revenue and attendances if walk-up prices were reduced by, say, 15 per cent? Is there scope for offering more matches for a tenner, without alienating ST holders? I'm trying to think of ways of boosting the atmosphere - some of those games last season were deathly quiet - though I suspect this is more of a cultural and sociological problem that has been discussed elsewhere on this forum. Any ideas?
Clearly the club doesn't think a modest reduction in match prices would improve revenue as it is putting many match prices up compared to last season.
As far as price promotions are concerned, we have probably been the most progressive club in the country in this respect over a 20 year period.
Airman's rough comparison of 11,000 STs sold at the start of last season and an estimate of 10,000 at the start of this, is slightly depressing.
Just to be clear, the final number of season ticket holders was more than 11,000 and I wouldn't necessarily predict 10,000 at the start of the season based on a current figure of 9,000. It's possible but will require double last season's rate of sale between early July and the first home game.
After lapsing into occasional attendance, Dad and I are back on the season ticket wagon. Very excited to know we'll be back every week, but just out of interest, does anybody have any experience of sitting in K block, North Upper?
After lapsing into occasional attendance, Dad and I are back on the season ticket wagon. Very excited to know we'll be back every week, but just out of interest, does anybody have any experience of sitting in K block, North Upper?
I stand in j block. K slightly to left everyone sits and its a good view of the far end and the pitch and very good view of the near end.
Any further new on ST sales numbers? The OS is silent compared to the last couple of years when it seemed to announce our increasing numbers on a weekly basis. Silence this year. I take it that no news is bad news?
Any further new on ST sales numbers? The OS is silent compared to the last couple of years when it seemed to announce our increasing numbers on a weekly basis. Silence this year. I take it that no news is bad news?
I believe Airman recently told us they are about a thousand down on last year.
Any further new on ST sales numbers? The OS is silent compared to the last couple of years when it seemed to announce our increasing numbers on a weekly basis. Silence this year. I take it that no news is bad news?
I believe Airman recently told us they are about a thousand down on last year.
Airman's rough comparison of 11,000 STs sold at the start of last season and an estimate of 10,000 at the start of this, is slightly depressing.
Just to be clear, the final number of season ticket holders was more than 11,000 and I wouldn't necessarily predict 10,000 at the start of the season based on a current figure of 9,000. It's possible but will require double last season's rate of sale between early July and the first home game.
Comments
Airman Brown (Rick Everitt) was the Club Development Manager so knew exactly how many ST holders, comps, aways etc etc etc there were. I have seen the very detailed spreadsheets to prove it : - )
Personally Im not that bothered. Absent ST holders is a weird one, as much as theyve paid for the game they arent here, so they havent "attended", so I dont think they should be counted. Free comps being counted is fine by me, theyre here so have them counted.
Thus why when the attendance is announced as being 20k+, you get people looking around in bewilderment and laughing.
This can be boosted by targeted offers but it's difficult to add much more than 1,000.
Everything else is comps - up to 5,000 at one game last season. That's a recklessly stupid number and only ever done to inflate the published attendance.
The club has started calling lapsed season ticket holders, which is good practice and what we have done in previous years.
What the very high number of non-attending season ticket holders should have told the club is that there was a cohort of people who would not get value at the higher price and would therefore lapse. The question, which is an open one, is whether the club is better off leaving them to buy match to match.
I don't think the likely decline has much to do with the marketing, to be honest. It may be affected by transfer activity, if any. But I'm told nothing is happening at present.
I suspect that another factor is that whilst the differential always has to be there. If you have to miss a few home games for various reasons, and with offers for others, you may not really be that better off buying a season ticket and finding the money up front in these difficult times is an issue even if you can take up the payment plan – but this ends up costing more. It is a difficult balancing act for the club. The other big reason for buying season tickets is priority – but as the Valley is never full and a season ticket doesn’t guarantee you a limited away ticket – that benefit is not as marked as it would be if we had a smaller ground or were in the Premiership.
I buy a Season Ticket for my family and me because as I can and because I think it helps the club. When I started buying season tickets, it was to ensure I didn’t miss any games!
As far as price promotions are concerned, we have probably been the most progressive club in the country in this respect over a 20 year period.
Good info Airman.