no when the tolls were put up it was clearly stated once the money was paid back that the tolls would stop not increase
I think that's an urban myth, and when I've tried to find a link to a credible quote on tolls being removed once paid for, the only things I found were akin to someone down the pub saying it so it must be true and people buying into the rumour.
But if you say it's clearly stated then I must be wrong and just not found the correct link giving the quote
no when the tolls were put up it was clearly stated once the money was paid back that the tolls would stop not increase
I think that's an urban myth, and when I've tried to find a link to a credible quote on tolls being removed once paid for, the only things I found were akin to someone down the pub saying it so it must be true and people buying into the rumour.
But if you say it's clearly stated then I must be wrong and just not found the correct link giving the quote
Found this on the Dartford crossing wikipedia entry:
"In 1991 The Queen Elizabeth II Bridge was opened. The PFI scheme allowed DRC Ltd a 20 year concession to collect revenue, although this could be ended early once debts were repaid. Under the scheme, some parties had expected that the government of the time would scrap the toll once the debt had been repaid and a suitable maintenance fund had been accumulated,[5] which was deemed to have occurred on 31 March 2002."
Rothko and his "I'm alright jack" attitude just because he lives in a DA postcode so only pays 20p a go for the tunnel. Imagine his attitude if they build that new crossing on Swanscombe peninsular right by Rothko towers.
Putting aside all the arguments about whether or not we should still be paying a toll, I think it's a good idea to switch to this system and have been saying as much since they started using it in the capital.
I personally don't use it often (about twice a year) but living local and a frequent A2 user, I think it will certainly help ease traffic.
Extra revenue via fines when people cannot pay within the timescale.
Hallelujah!!!!!!!!!!!
Shaft and shit on the decent working people of this godforsaken country even more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That argument doesn't stack up though, does it?
At the moment you can't go through unless you pay first. Whereas this scheme would presumably allow you to pay in advance or after, like the congestion charge.
So how is it that "people cannot pay within the timescale"? They have to pay now. So what's the difference?
Or is it just another excuse for Unlce Len to bemoan his luck I wonder.
Very similar to the situation we have on the A22 motorway here in the Algarve. When it was constructed - mostly using EU money - it was one of 7 designated "SCUT" motorways within Portugal, which would ALWAYS be free.
Once the government had pissed away the rest of the grants the EU gave them and had to go cap in hand to "The Troika" - it was decided to make them into toll roads ( on very dodgy legal grounds ). But they would not fork out for toll booths, so put up electronic gantries instead. You have to buy a transponder for €25 and link it to a bank account, or pay in advance - but from what I can gather these are set amounts in increments of €10, and no toll is exactly rounded up or down, so you end up paying extra - or you can pay afterwards at a pay shop or a post office. BUT for some reason beknown only to the utter f*ckwits that run this country, your car does not register in the system for 48 hours, you then have to pay within five days of your journey, or incur a fine. So you have a three day window in which to pay. The same thing as mentioned above applies to foreign registered cars - although at the border they try and con motorists into stopping and buying a transponder (or hiring one, which in reality costs an extra €10 on top of your toll fee once you hand it back) - they can do nothing about collecting money from them after the event.
This leads to the scenario I had when we went to Gib the other week, I have no transponder as I never normally use the motorway. I wanted to use the motorway this once, but was unwilling to shell out in advance and lose money, I was away during the 72 hour payment window, so ended up avoiding the motorway altogether, thereby costing the Portuguese government about a tenner, because of their own stupid system!
Of course the Dartford crossing has an alternative route, and wouldn't it be nice if everyone used that route for a couple of days as a protest, but realistically that aint ever gonna happen, and the alternative route isn't really an alternative at all, is it?
Extra revenue via fines when people cannot pay within the timescale.
Hallelujah!!!!!!!!!!!
Shaft and shit on the decent working people of this godforsaken country even more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That argument doesn't stack up though, does it?
At the moment you can't go through unless you pay first. Whereas this scheme would presumably allow you to pay in advance or after, like the congestion charge.
So how is it that "people cannot pay within the timescale"? They have to pay now. So what's the difference?
Or is it just another excuse for Unlce Len to bemoan his luck I wonder.
Personally I blame the EU.
I remember getting fined 80 quid for not paying my congestion charge for one day after paying it on the same vehicle via the same text account EVERY DAY for easily around 3 years from the first day it started! When I appealed they didn't want to know, they just said I should've paid it by midday the following day. The only reason I think the congestion charge was set up in the first place was because they knew that just as many vehicles would enter London at the rate of just a fiver a day, if they really wanted to stop congestion, they would've made it 50 quid a day! Also, I think its there to trip people up and shaft them through fining them, same as what's planned at the Dartford Crossing....
I was going to take the side of those arguing that anything that speeds up the traffic is a good thing. Then a letter arrived on my doormat telling me that my driving licence photo is out of date and that I'd have to pay £20 for a new card - after I've forked out for the photo myself. I can't see how they can justify those costs. Perhaps Len and Co are right to be wary of profiteering authorities.
Just to correct a couple of things that have been said but only add to the confusion. First, the crossing was not "sold to a french company" For some years a french company managed the crossing for the Highways Agency. The company that does that job now, Connect Plus M25 is a consortium including Balfour Beatty, Skanska, Atkins and Egis Road Operation UK. They have the resposibility to manage and widen 40 miles of the M25 and refurb the Hatfield Tunnel as part of their contract. Second, all of the tolls are paid gross, a total of some £72mn per year is paid to the Govt. In return the management company receives a fee for their work which is around £25mn. Third, the costs of building the tunnel and bridge were met from toll revenues by March 2002. The Govt. had to introduce new legislation to extend the toll regime in order to use toll revenues to create a fund from which to pay maintenance costs. It's pretty much all covered here if anyone wants to read it. assets.highways.gov.uk/our-road-network/the-dartford-thurrock-river-crossing/S120518%20Dartford%20Crossing%20Account%202011-12%20web%20version.pdf
The question I always ask is: if London was, somehow, a mirror image of itself, with Heathrow, Windsor Castle, Eton, Buckinghamshire, Oxfordshire, Berkshire, many MPs houses, their weekend cottages all to the East of the capital rather than the west, does anyone think there would be tolls to get across the Thames from one side of London to the other?
Just to correct a couple of things that have been said but only add to the confusion. First, the crossing was not "sold to a french company" For some years a french company managed the crossing for the Highways Agency. The company that does that job now, Connect Plus M25 is a consortium including Balfour Beatty, Skanska, Atkins and Egis Road Operation UK. They have the resposibility to manage and widen 40 miles of the M25 and refurb the Hatfield Tunnel as part of their contract. Second, all of the tolls are paid gross, a total of some £72mn per year is paid to the Govt. In return the management company receives a fee for their work which is around £25mn. Third, the costs of building the tunnel and bridge were met from toll revenues by March 2002. The Govt. had to introduce new legislation to extend the toll regime in order to use toll revenues to create a fund from which to pay maintenance costs. It's pretty much all covered here if anyone wants to read it. assets.highways.gov.uk/our-road-network/the-dartford-thurrock-river-crossing/S120518%20Dartford%20Crossing%20Account%202011-12%20web%20version.pdf
The question I always ask is: if London was, somehow, a mirror image of itself, with Heathrow, Windsor Castle, Eton, Buckinghamshire, Oxfordshire, Berkshire, many MPs houses, their weekend cottages all to the East of the capital rather than the west, does anyone think there would be tolls to get across the Thames from one side of London to the other?
The bridge has been paid for many times over - it is time for it to be free- but we all know this won't happen. For me though, it is the same as picking a random patch anywhere on M25 and making people pay for it because they the poor sods have no choice!!!
My Dad always reminds me that they said that once it had paid for itself the tolls would be removed. It must have paid for itself many times over by now.
Very similar to the situation we have on the A22 motorway here in the Algarve. When it was constructed - mostly using EU money - it was one of 7 designated "SCUT" motorways within Portugal, which would ALWAYS be free.
Once the government had pissed away the rest of the grants the EU gave them and had to go cap in hand to "The Troika" - it was decided to make them into toll roads ( on very dodgy legal grounds ). But they would not fork out for toll booths, so put up electronic gantries instead. You have to buy a transponder for €25 and link it to a bank account, or pay in advance - but from what I can gather these are set amounts in increments of €10, and no toll is exactly rounded up or down, so you end up paying extra - or you can pay afterwards at a pay shop or a post office. BUT for some reason beknown only to the utter f*ckwits that run this country, your car does not register in the system for 48 hours, you then have to pay within five days of your journey, or incur a fine. So you have a three day window in which to pay. The same thing as mentioned above applies to foreign registered cars - although at the border they try and con motorists into stopping and buying a transponder (or hiring one, which in reality costs an extra €10 on top of your toll fee once you hand it back) - they can do nothing about collecting money from them after the event.
This leads to the scenario I had when we went to Gib the other week, I have no transponder as I never normally use the motorway. I wanted to use the motorway this once, but was unwilling to shell out in advance and lose money, I was away during the 72 hour payment window, so ended up avoiding the motorway altogether, thereby costing the Portuguese government about a tenner, because of their own stupid system!
Of course the Dartford crossing has an alternative route, and wouldn't it be nice if everyone used that route for a couple of days as a protest, but realistically that aint ever gonna happen, and the alternative route isn't really an alternative at all, is it?
Ahh, Algarve, the infamous A22! I was down in your neck of the woods in June and what a farce that road is! Hardly anybody uses it any more meaning the local roads, which are gradually falling apart now take much more traffic and there have been more fatal (and expensive) accidents. On top of that, the car rental companies at Faro airport try to charge you to rent a transponder from them, no longer provide local maps and don't explain that you can get from Faro to the Albufeira area without going on the motorway, and once there it's hardly likely that you'll venture back on to the motorway network anyway! The upshot of all this is that tourists say: "you know what - it's a rip-off and I'm not going back - Spain seems like a better option. On the plus side - I like your speed control system in urban areas where speed detectors trigger traffic lights so if you are breaking the speed limit the lights go red and slow your journey time anyway. Much better than just slapping speeding fines on people.
The people of the Algarve have been telling the government exactly that since the idea of the tolls was first mentioned. The problem is that 90+ % of the population is north of the Alentejo, and they would not be happy if the Algarve was made a special case, because they can't get their thick heads around the concept that 95% of the Algarve economy is tourist based, unlike their standard industries. As there are probably only 300,000 voters in the Algarve the government don't really care if the tourist industry dies, whatever they might claim in public.
As for the speed control, it is a good idea, except that the buggers who set the lights off usually drive straight through them anyway, so just delay those of us that are obeying the speed limit behind them...
With the closure of the bridge yesterday due to high winds, some of the people at work (Dartford) and live in Essex took over 6 hours to get home last night. Whilst others who live further round the M25, went clockwise round and got home with 3 hours. So the Essex based employees have been sent this sign.
I've said it before and i'll say it again. The lack of signs reminding you to pay/the lack of email notification/the lack of option to auto-topup is designed to incurr as many fines as possible.
I'd rather wait in my car for an extra 5 minutes and not get stung. BRING BACK LE BARRIERZ
I've said it before and i'll say it again. The lack of signs reminding you to pay/the lack of email notification/the lack of option to auto-topup is designed to incurr as many fines as possible.
I'd rather wait in my car for an extra 5 minutes and not get stung. BRING BACK LE BARRIERZ
There is an option to auto-topup, and it's not hidden or anything sneaky. Only issue I have with it is you can't set the minimum balance below £10, so they'll always be holding £10 of your money until you turn off auto-topup.
I've said it before and i'll say it again. The lack of signs reminding you to pay/the lack of email notification/the lack of option to auto-topup is designed to incurr as many fines as possible.
I'd rather wait in my car for an extra 5 minutes and not get stung. BRING BACK LE BARRIERZ
I have used it twice in the last year and forgotten both times = fine the 2nd time
With the closure of the bridge yesterday due to high winds, some of the people at work (Dartford) and live in Essex took over 6 hours to get home last night. Whilst others who live further round the M25, went clockwise round and got home with 3 hours. So the Essex based employees have been sent this sign.
The whole of NW Kent was screwed up because of it yesterday, like it is most days. Yesterday the A2 was queued back past Charlton, Dartford and surrounding towns were in total gridlock, and people coming up from Surrey had to queue for hours. I do not understand how they get away with still charging people for that ‘service’.
With Southeastern providing the only alternative to get around the area, we really must live in the worst place in the country for travel and traffic. I’ve contacted Dartford’s MP previously but there’s nothing we can do except get on with it or move away, meanwhile the outrageous profits go elsewhere and congestion worsens.
I forgot and received a notice about 2 weeks later saying they'd let me off if I coughed up the 2.50 sharpish.... Otherwise it was gonna be 80quid or summink
I've said it before and i'll say it again. The lack of signs reminding you to pay/the lack of email notification/the lack of option to auto-topup is designed to incurr as many fines as possible.
I'd rather wait in my car for an extra 5 minutes and not get stung. BRING BACK LE BARRIERZ
I have used it twice in the last year and forgotten both times = fine the 2nd time
It was fine the second time to forget? Was the first time bad then?
I've said it before and i'll say it again. The lack of signs reminding you to pay/the lack of email notification/the lack of option to auto-topup is designed to incurr as many fines as possible.
I'd rather wait in my car for an extra 5 minutes and not get stung. BRING BACK LE BARRIERZ
It has an auto top up, mine tops up when I get down to £10.00
I've said it before and i'll say it again. The lack of signs reminding you to pay/the lack of email notification/the lack of option to auto-topup is designed to incurr as many fines as possible.
I'd rather wait in my car for an extra 5 minutes and not get stung. BRING BACK LE BARRIERZ
There is an option to auto-topup, and it's not hidden or anything sneaky. Only issue I have with it is you can't set the minimum balance below £10, so they'll always be holding £10 of your money until you turn off auto-topup.
I forgot and received a notice about 2 weeks later saying they'd let me off if I coughed up the 2.50 sharpish.... Otherwise it was gonna be 80quid or summink
I forgot 2 x crossings last month hence why I have opened an account. Got a £12.00 fine for each missed payment so £24.00 in total. Not the worse fine I can think of.
Comments
Its wrong that its charged, but I think barriers need to be in place (at least for the tunnel anyway)
But if you say it's clearly stated then I must be wrong and just not found the correct link giving the quote
"In 1991 The Queen Elizabeth II Bridge was opened. The PFI scheme allowed DRC Ltd a 20 year concession to collect revenue, although this could be ended early once debts were repaid. Under the scheme, some parties had expected that the government of the time would scrap the toll once the debt had been repaid and a suitable maintenance fund had been accumulated,[5] which was deemed to have occurred on 31 March 2002."
I personally don't use it often (about twice a year) but living local and a frequent A2 user, I think it will certainly help ease traffic.
At the moment you can't go through unless you pay first. Whereas this scheme would presumably allow you to pay in advance or after, like the congestion charge.
So how is it that "people cannot pay within the timescale"? They have to pay now. So what's the difference?
Or is it just another excuse for Unlce Len to bemoan his luck I wonder.
Personally I blame the EU.
Once the government had pissed away the rest of the grants the EU gave them and had to go cap in hand to "The Troika" - it was decided to make them into toll roads ( on very dodgy legal grounds ). But they would not fork out for toll booths, so put up electronic gantries instead. You have to buy a transponder for €25 and link it to a bank account, or pay in advance - but from what I can gather these are set amounts in increments of €10, and no toll is exactly rounded up or down, so you end up paying extra - or you can pay afterwards at a pay shop or a post office. BUT for some reason beknown only to the utter f*ckwits that run this country, your car does not register in the system for 48 hours, you then have to pay within five days of your journey, or incur a fine. So you have a three day window in which to pay. The same thing as mentioned above applies to foreign registered cars - although at the border they try and con motorists into stopping and buying a transponder (or hiring one, which in reality costs an extra €10 on top of your toll fee once you hand it back) - they can do nothing about collecting money from them after the event.
This leads to the scenario I had when we went to Gib the other week, I have no transponder as I never normally use the motorway. I wanted to use the motorway this once, but was unwilling to shell out in advance and lose money, I was away during the 72 hour payment window, so ended up avoiding the motorway altogether, thereby costing the Portuguese government about a tenner, because of their own stupid system!
Of course the Dartford crossing has an alternative route, and wouldn't it be nice if everyone used that route for a couple of days as a protest, but realistically that aint ever gonna happen, and the alternative route isn't really an alternative at all, is it?
First, the crossing was not "sold to a french company"
For some years a french company managed the crossing for the Highways Agency.
The company that does that job now, Connect Plus M25 is a consortium including Balfour Beatty, Skanska, Atkins and Egis Road Operation UK. They have the resposibility to manage and widen 40 miles of the M25 and refurb the Hatfield Tunnel as part of their contract.
Second, all of the tolls are paid gross, a total of some £72mn per year is paid to the Govt. In return the management company receives a fee for their work which is around £25mn.
Third, the costs of building the tunnel and bridge were met from toll revenues by March 2002. The Govt. had to introduce new legislation to extend the toll regime in order to use toll revenues to create a fund from which to pay maintenance costs.
It's pretty much all covered here if anyone wants to read it.
assets.highways.gov.uk/our-road-network/the-dartford-thurrock-river-crossing/S120518%20Dartford%20Crossing%20Account%202011-12%20web%20version.pdf
The question I always ask is: if London was, somehow, a mirror image of itself, with Heathrow, Windsor Castle, Eton, Buckinghamshire, Oxfordshire, Berkshire, many MPs houses, their weekend cottages all to the East of the capital rather than the west, does anyone think there would be tolls to get across the Thames from one side of London to the other?
I was down in your neck of the woods in June and what a farce that road is! Hardly anybody uses it any more meaning the local roads, which are gradually falling apart now take much more traffic and there have been more fatal (and expensive) accidents.
On top of that, the car rental companies at Faro airport try to charge you to rent a transponder from them, no longer provide local maps and don't explain that you can get from Faro to the Albufeira area without going on the motorway, and once there it's hardly likely that you'll venture back on to the motorway network anyway! The upshot of all this is that tourists say: "you know what - it's a rip-off and I'm not going back - Spain seems like a better option.
On the plus side - I like your speed control system in urban areas where speed detectors trigger traffic lights so if you are breaking the speed limit the lights go red and slow your journey time anyway. Much better than just slapping speeding fines on people.
As for the speed control, it is a good idea, except that the buggers who set the lights off usually drive straight through them anyway, so just delay those of us that are obeying the speed limit behind them...
I'd rather wait in my car for an extra 5 minutes and not get stung. BRING BACK LE BARRIERZ
With Southeastern providing the only alternative to get around the area, we really must live in the worst place in the country for travel and traffic. I’ve contacted Dartford’s MP previously but there’s nothing we can do except get on with it or move away, meanwhile the outrageous profits go elsewhere and congestion worsens.
I appreciated the let off
Butttttt... Something still not right here