I'm assuming that some of the reported £40m (which is likely to be nearer to £25) would be used to repay the loans that the current owners have run up. If MJ and MS have 'invested' £17m and they (or the club) owes Richard Murray £4.5m then there is not much left from £25m.
It would be my guess that they are well past hoping to make money out of this now, it is more likely that they are now hoping to just not lose any. If they have been paying interest on the money they 'invested' they they would need that added.
One thing that is for certain is that they wouldn't be keen to sell the club and walk away with loans outstanding, otherwise they would become unsecured creditors if the club went into administration and offered 10p in the £.
I'd be staggered if they make money out of this now - anything short of promotion to the Premier League and the club must be worth less than they have spent.
One word of warning though, anyone stupid enough to buy the club under the circumstances it is being marketed now is probably stupid enough to make matters much worse. Mark Goldberg, Simon Jordan for example came in with the best intentions but both left their club is a much worse position than I think we are in now.
As much as I don't like how things are being run at the moment, we are managing and the last thing we need is someone that has less money than the current board and runs out as there is only so long a club can go on with no money.
a coda to this statement 'there is only so long a club can go on with no money': if it continues to spend more than it gets in! If a club gets in £20 per year, and spends £19.99, then it can go on for ever, providing all the opposition clubs stay in business.
What I don't understand is how some on here think £40m price tag is gospel but five potential buyers is made up.
Either the whole article is true or the whole article is bollox.
Certain people seem to have an agenda and only want to look at the bad instead of look at the situation (from the outside I may add) even-handedly.
It could be about right. Secured loans (say) £25m existing shareholder investment (say) £15m
The secured loans are well documented. More like £12m than £25m.
However, from recollection this regime didn't set up the deferrals and while I'm sure the bank and former directors would like their money back now, we can't assume they wouldn't roll them over again to the right new owners.
The problem for the owners is their exposure is only going to increase unless they sell and the value of the club isn't going to rise with it unless something miraculous happens.
IF (have you noticed it is a big 'if'?) there are people willing to buy, and IF they are people of some kind of substance and credibility, then surely a deal can be done? Tone and co can look back on their stewardship of Charlton as a success on the field and get out without losing face, and possibly getting their money back. It is a question of the amount.
Reminds me of an old joke:
Winston Churchill (on train to woman); 'would you sleep with me for a million pounds?' Woman (coy look, and giggle): 'well, yes I would.' Winston Churchill: 'would you sleep with me for one pound' Woman: 'What kind of woman do you take me for?!' Winston;' We know what kind of woman you are, we're simply negotiating the price'.
They'll have to cut there losses if they want out, if they want to sell the playing squad then preferably do it when they don't all have 10 months on their contract left. No one will buy the club at 40m. If Cash wants his money back either drop the price or invest in the playing squad for the coming season and strike lucky with a play off win then they'll be in profit
They'll have to cut there losses if they want out, if they want to sell the playing squad then preferably do it when they don't all have 10 months on their contract left. No one will buy the club at 40m. If Cash wants his money back either drop the price or invest in the playing squad for the coming season and strike lucky with a play off win then they'll be in profit
If the intention was to invest in the playing squad then I think it would have happened by now. On that basis it's safe to rule that out. That leaves ........ Tbh I have no idea.
If the plan is to put no more money in I would expect to see players leave over the next month to fund the seasons running costs. It may buy the owners the season to carry on trying to sell before administration next summer. What a mess. Bet Cash is kicking himself about last season, whatever you think of TJ it seems he wanted to go for it last year and had players lined up. Could have been us instead of Palace and everyone would now be happy.
What I don't understand is how some on here think £40m price tag is gospel but five potential buyers is made up.
Either the whole article is true or the whole article is bollox.
Certain people seem to have an agenda and only want to look at the bad instead of look at the situation (from the outside I may add) even-handedly.
It could be about right. Secured loans (say) £25m existing shareholder investment (say) £15m
The secured loans are well documented. More like £12m than £25m.
However, from recollection this regime didn't set up the deferrals and while I'm sure the bank and former directors would like their money back now, we can't assume they wouldn't roll them over again to the right new owners.
The problem for the owners is their exposure is only going to increase unless they sell and the value of the club isn't going to rise with it unless something miraculous happens.
Total club debts are around £40M of which just £5M is secured against the Freehold of the Valley by the bank which funded the North Upper. The rest of the debt is owed to the new crowd (£15M) Richard Murray (£5M) and the old board (£10M). The last bit has been deferred until promotion to the Premier League is achieved.
The debts are likely to rise by c.£5M this season... promotion to the Premier League will never be as easy again as it was last year(feckin Palace)... the three relegated all won yesterday and Leeds are on the way back... and if it looks a challenge this year then next season is worse with Cardiff Palace and Hull returning with pockets full of gold!
Interest rates on the funding aren't really material - what matters is whether there are buyers out there who can negotiate with ALL creditors... and what matters to us is that thes buyers have the investment and football management ability to make the cut... We are rapidly moving towards a scenario of 23-26 clubs funded by SKY...if you aren't there you are nowhere! In this context I am not interested in former employees, £10k debts or rumours about the odd player being sold. All that concerns me is reducing losses to make the club more attractive and sustainable and improving the Academy / player acquisition... More later
What I don't understand is how some on here think £40m price tag is gospel but five potential buyers is made up.
Either the whole article is true or the whole article is bollox.
Certain people seem to have an agenda and only want to look at the bad instead of look at the situation (from the outside I may add) even-handedly.
It could be about right. Secured loans (say) £25m existing shareholder investment (say) £15m
The secured loans are well documented. More like £12m than £25m.
However, from recollection this regime didn't set up the deferrals and while I'm sure the bank and former directors would like their money back now, we can't assume they wouldn't roll them over again to the right new owners.
The problem for the owners is their exposure is only going to increase unless they sell and the value of the club isn't going to rise with it unless something miraculous happens.
Total club debts are around £40M of which just £5M is secured against the Freehold of the Valley by the bank which funded the North Upper. The rest of the debt is owed to the new crowd (£15M) Richard Murray (£5M) and the old board (£10M). The last bit has been deferred until promotion to the Premier League is achieved.
That's not right and doesn't add up of itself! The debts to the former directors are £4.4m, unless you think they have been putting in money in 2012/13 (!) and Richard Murray was owed £4.15m at June 30th, 2012, of which only £1.55m is repayable in instalments now and the rest is deferred on the same basis as that to the ex-directors, i.e. promotion to the Premier League. This is all in the 2011/12 accounts.
What I don't understand is how some on here think £40m price tag is gospel but five potential buyers is made up.
Either the whole article is true or the whole article is bollox.
Certain people seem to have an agenda and only want to look at the bad instead of look at the situation (from the outside I may add) even-handedly.
Wouldn't be much of a message board if you could only comment from the base of perfect information
Read what I said. I'll say it so you can possibly understand it.
From the outside ie, without inside information, look at the situation even-handedly and don't always assume the worst or best because it fits into your particular agenda.
Is there a bottom line figure, where all the debts stay with the club/new owners, and Tone and his people can get out with about £200,000 profit, or a break even figure, for what they have put in? My reading is that it would be £15mil. I may be stupidly wrong though.
Comments
Either the whole article is true or the whole article is bollox.
Certain people seem to have an agenda and only want to look at the bad instead of look at the situation (from the outside I may add) even-handedly.
It would be my guess that they are well past hoping to make money out of this now, it is more likely that they are now hoping to just not lose any. If they have been paying interest on the money they 'invested' they they would need that added.
One thing that is for certain is that they wouldn't be keen to sell the club and walk away with loans outstanding, otherwise they would become unsecured creditors if the club went into administration and offered 10p in the £.
I'd be staggered if they make money out of this now - anything short of promotion to the Premier League and the club must be worth less than they have spent.
One word of warning though, anyone stupid enough to buy the club under the circumstances it is being marketed now is probably stupid enough to make matters much worse. Mark Goldberg, Simon Jordan for example came in with the best intentions but both left their club is a much worse position than I think we are in now.
As much as I don't like how things are being run at the moment, we are managing and the last thing we need is someone that has less money than the current board and runs out as there is only so long a club can go on with no money.
If a club gets in £20 per year, and spends £19.99, then it can go on for ever, providing all the opposition clubs stay in business.
The secured loans are well documented. More like £12m than £25m.
However, from recollection this regime didn't set up the deferrals and while I'm sure the bank and former directors would like their money back now, we can't assume they wouldn't roll them over again to the right new owners.
The problem for the owners is their exposure is only going to increase unless they sell and the value of the club isn't going to rise with it unless something miraculous happens.
Tone and co can look back on their stewardship of Charlton as a success on the field and get out without losing face, and possibly getting their money back. It is a question of the amount.
Reminds me of an old joke:
Winston Churchill (on train to woman); 'would you sleep with me for a million pounds?'
Woman (coy look, and giggle): 'well, yes I would.'
Winston Churchill: 'would you sleep with me for one pound'
Woman: 'What kind of woman do you take me for?!'
Winston;' We know what kind of woman you are, we're simply negotiating the price'.
If a fan I hope it's not too detrimental to the club which balls up any hope of us getting new owners.
The rest of the debt is owed to the new crowd (£15M) Richard Murray (£5M) and the old board (£10M). The last bit has been deferred until promotion to the Premier League is achieved.
The debts are likely to rise by c.£5M this season... promotion to the Premier League will never be as easy again as it was last year(feckin Palace)... the three relegated all won yesterday and Leeds are on the way back... and if it looks a challenge this year then next season is worse with Cardiff Palace and Hull returning with pockets full of gold!
Interest rates on the funding aren't really material - what matters is whether there are buyers out there who can negotiate with ALL creditors... and what matters to us is that thes buyers have the investment and football management ability to make the cut...
We are rapidly moving towards a scenario of 23-26 clubs funded by SKY...if you aren't there you are nowhere!
In this context I am not interested in former employees, £10k debts or rumours about the odd player being sold. All that concerns me is reducing losses to make the club more attractive and sustainable and improving the Academy / player acquisition...
More later
From the outside ie, without inside information, look at the situation even-handedly and don't always assume the worst or best because it fits into your particular agenda.
My reading is that it would be £15mil.
I may be stupidly wrong though.