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Charlton v Middlesborough 2013 Post-match news & Views

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    seth plum said:

    Faversham, I agree that if you sign 2 strikers a few days before the season starts and have most of your squad on contracts that run out next Summer then today's performance isn't really a surprise. I hope I'm wrong but it's beginning to look like the owners' piss poor management of the player contracts is affecting us on the pitch.

    We were poor today but I saw worse last season. Great teamwork and graft got us out of trouble last time. Can Chris do it again given the contract situation? I have my doubts.

    Let's hope the owners see the folly of letting their investment getting relegated and either sell at a sensible price or put more money in.

    This is a good post. I hope there IS a way for Chris to do it again, or try to, because what is the alternative at the moment?
    Chris needs his coaching team to support and help him even more if he is down about things, it's no good anybody shrugging their shoulders and saying 'what can you do?'
    I do think there is disappointment regarding investment, but there is also opportunity within our resources, both in selecting players, coaching...errrrm.....more, and choosing formations. Chris is not beyond criticism, and I think he may need to re-visit 4-5-1, as well as being a bit cooler with the more experienced players unless they deliver. However I believe Chris respects the guys he works with, and will ultimately try to get them going well, when replacing them is now not an option.

    Chris would be best served by going back to basics on the training ground, starting with getting Charlton players passing to their team mates over short distances of d

    Secondly, stop picking unfit players (JJ, Yann, maybe Wiggins) and stop giving 58th chances to obvious duds (Green).

    Finally , stop blowing smoke up peoples arses like blaming Yann for bumping Hamer for the goal, when Hamer let in many similar last season and has an obvious weakness there.

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    seth plum said:

    Faversham, I agree that if you sign 2 strikers a few days before the season starts and have most of your squad on contracts that run out next Summer then today's performance isn't really a surprise. I hope I'm wrong but it's beginning to look like the owners' piss poor management of the player contracts is affecting us on the pitch.

    We were poor today but I saw worse last season. Great teamwork and graft got us out of trouble last time. Can Chris do it again given the contract situation? I have my doubts.

    Let's hope the owners see the folly of letting their investment getting relegated and either sell at a sensible price or put more money in.

    This is a good post. I hope there IS a way for Chris to do it again, or try to, because what is the alternative at the moment?
    Chris needs his coaching team to support and help him even more if he is down about things, it's no good anybody shrugging their shoulders and saying 'what can you do?'
    I do think there is disappointment regarding investment, but there is also opportunity within our resources, both in selecting players, coaching...errrrm.....more, and choosing formations. Chris is not beyond criticism, and I think he may need to re-visit 4-5-1, as well as being a bit cooler with the more experienced players unless they deliver. However I believe Chris respects the guys he works with, and will ultimately try to get them going well, when replacing them is now not an option.

    Chris would be best served by going back to basics on the training ground, starting with getting Charlton players passing to their team mates over short distances of d

    Secondly, stop picking unfit players (JJ, Yann, maybe Wiggins) and stop giving 58th chances to obvious duds (Green).

    Finally , stop blowing smoke up peoples arses like blaming Yann for bumping Hamer for the goal, when Hamer let in many similar last season and has an obvious weakness there.

    Your focus is clear Maginot. Is the whole thread going to develop into you venting your spleen against CP, and trying to get everyone to join in ?

    CP makes mistakes, but I trust that he will learn and not repeat them on and on. Enough of the slating. You've made your point.

    You can't also place all the problems of the team on his shoulders. Like Valley Mick says that having 2 strikers signed 2 days before the first game, and having the majority of the squad out of contract at the end of the season, and having to make do with league one level right halves is not his fault. That is down to piss poor management of the club by MS / TJ - who look like they want to sell the valley as the only way to get back their money.

    If CP persists with rubbish formations for the next 5 games, then you can say, I told you so.
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    Maginot, I like CP a lot but agree that he's not beyond criticism. I don't think timing of subs is a strength for him either. It was clear that Boro were on top and Church and Wilson should have come on at least 10 mins earlier from where I was sitting.

    But the owners should retain CP. He is keeping the fans onside and even an experienced manager would struggle with the current experiment in how not to run a football team.

    I can't think of many organisations that would prosper with 80% plus of the front line staff, key manager and deputy with contracts of less than 1 year to run.

    Solly playing like an average pro? This speaks volumes in my view.

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    edited August 2013
    I think SCP knows more about man-management than you maginotaddick and I'm sure he'll address the problems in private rather than coming out and saying so and so was a right cock out there today

    And the reason SCP is on a pedestal is because
    to many Charlton fans he was the first Charlton player to represent England in our lifetimes ,
    he represented us during our most successful times in our footballing lives ,
    he came back and managed us to a record points and title winning team,
    he then followed up with (little backing) a more than decent 9th place finish
    which will lead to fucktards thinking that we have a right to be pushing for the play offs this season and moaning like complete fannys after two poor defeats
    Of course he can be criticised and clearly a lot of players underperformed today but he's shown before he can get us going again , patience is the key in SCP we trust
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    I think SCP knows more about man-management than you maginotaddick and I'm sure he'll address the problems in private rather than coming out and saying so and so was a right cock out there today

    And the reason SCP is on a pedestal is because
    to many Charlton fans he was the first Charlton player to represent England in our lifetimes ,
    he represented us during our most successful times in our footballing lives ,
    he came back and managed us to a record points and title winning team,
    he then followed up with (little backing) a more than decent 9th place finish
    which will lead to fucktards thinking that we have a right to be pushing for the play offs this season and moaning like complete fannys after two poor defeats
    Of course he can be criticised and clearly a lot of players underperformed today but he's shown before he can get us going again , patience is the key in SCP we trust

    Take a bow. Nicely put
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    Some over-reactions on here, blimey we've only had 2 games.

    Agree that midfield was where it went wrong. Unfortunately Jackson looked injured from the off so no energy and we lacked his movement forwards. Gower although good on the ball looks very slow. Not sure we have anyone that can replace Jackson at the moment and that is worrying. Strikers didn't get a sniff and I thought Woodgate looked like he could easily handle Yann and did. I thought Green was no worse than anyone else and thought Wiggins had a terrible game. Dervite was good, a bit worried about Morro at the moment, he seems a bit off. Too early to judge Sordell although Church did show him how to work your socks off when things aren't going you way.

    If Jackson is out for a bit we might need to get someone in. I haven't seen cousins play but perhaps it's time to give him some game time.
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    _nam11 said:

    I think SCP knows more about man-management than you maginotaddick and I'm sure he'll address the problems in private rather than coming out and saying so and so was a right cock out there today

    And the reason SCP is on a pedestal is because
    to many Charlton fans he was the first Charlton player to represent England in our lifetimes ,
    he represented us during our most successful times in our footballing lives ,
    he came back and managed us to a record points and title winning team,
    he then followed up with (little backing) a more than decent 9th place finish
    which will lead to fucktards thinking that we have a right to be pushing for the play offs this season and moaning like complete fannys after two poor defeats
    Of course he can be criticised and clearly a lot of players underperformed today but he's shown before he can get us going again , patience is the key in SCP we trust

    Take a bow. Nicely put
    Seconded.

    Especially the bit about "fucktards" - made me laugh!
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    Posting without reading.

    The Hamer/Yann mixup that led to the goal was keystone cops stuff. I do think Powell might have done things a little differently today though.

    Danny Green, who is stealing a living as a footballer, didn't earn his place on Tuesday and shouldn't have been anywhere the starting line up. All those who bemoan Pritchard (and even Waggy) and call for Green instead, well I hope you were watching today. Another shot from a corner, the guy needs to learn the art of playing for a team - but preferably not on our payroll.

    Secondly, we were outnumbered in midfield all through the game. Solly and Wiggins struggled with their two rapid wide men so couldn't get forward to complement the midfield, so it had to come from up front. Yann had to drop deeper if we were to play through the midfield, but he can hardly do that and be the target man when the defenders give up and boot it long. He kind of ended up in no man's land half the time. Sordell clearly wasn't match fit. Throw in that Jackson clearly hadn't fully recovered from his calf and we lost our way big time.

    Stephens briefly looked like he might turn things in our favour but soon dropped back into his bad old ways. Dervite was awesome today though, and Church looked very lively in his late appearance. I'd expect him to start next game with Sordell getting his match fitness back via the bench.

    That said, there were periods in the game when we looked confident and bright. It's there, we've just not got firing yet.
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    _nam11 said:

    I think SCP knows more about man-management than you maginotaddick and I'm sure he'll address the problems in private rather than coming out and saying so and so was a right cock out there today

    And the reason SCP is on a pedestal is because
    to many Charlton fans he was the first Charlton player to represent England in our lifetimes ,
    he represented us during our most successful times in our footballing lives ,
    he came back and managed us to a record points and title winning team,
    he then followed up with (little backing) a more than decent 9th place finish
    which will lead to fucktards thinking that we have a right to be pushing for the play offs this season and moaning like complete fannys after two poor defeats
    Of course he can be criticised and clearly a lot of players underperformed today but he's shown before he can get us going again , patience is the key in SCP we trust

    Take a bow. Nicely put
    Seconded.

    Especially the bit about "fucktards" - made me laugh!
    Thirded. Post of the whatever.


    We need to stick with cp. He is the only thing between me and me joining the fucktard cowards already bottling it after 2 games.
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    edited August 2013
    Passing was poor - partly because the team lacked match fitness IMO - not offering themselves enough and partly through lazy passing!

    Boro were awful and it was clear they were not going to score unless we helped them too - which we duly did!

    To be fair- we were worse than awful - they were the away side and their crapness was slightly more forgivable.

    Hamer has top learn when to come off his line - No danger of a goal when ball was crossed in - had he stayed on his line would have comfortably been able to catch the ball that their player headed into an empty net -same lack of judgement at home to Wednesday - ben Roberts needs to get him to work on risk assessments.

    Wiggins clearly not fit -couldn't keep up with play.

    Nobody seeemd to be able to pass to a red shirt. Only time we looked dangerous was when Harriot ran at them which he didn't do enough.

    WIth 20 minutes to go - why keep 4 at the back? - Boro were clearly not going to attack in numbers and we were not functioning with a 4-4-2!!!!!! Powell needs to open his mind to the possibility of playing with one centre half in desperate situations (losing near the end of a game) at home!!!! Might not have worked, but an extra striker at least would have changed the dynamic!

    The positive is that we know the players can do better than that and they would be hard pushed to do any worse! Wasted opportunity playing so badly against a team as poor as Boro though!
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    Incidentally, we really don't have the players to play hugely different from 4-4-2. What we can't afford is two out and out wingers, which is what we saw today. With Pritchard, he's everywhere supporting the central midfielders, which you'll never get out of Green.

    Mind you, couldn't even get a cross out of Green today, he was woeful.
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    rikofold said:

    Incidentally, we really don't have the players to play hugely different from 4-4-2. What we can't afford is two out and out wingers, which is what we saw today. With Pritchard, he's everywhere supporting the central midfielders, which you'll never get out of Green.

    Mind you, couldn't even get a cross out of Green today, he was woeful.

    I agree but with 20 to go and a goal down and not looking remotely like scoring you can take a few risks with your formation - take advantage of the fact that Boro were not that good and try to press them with an extra striker! If it doesn't work - at least you have tried something!
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    rikofold said:

    Incidentally, we really don't have the players to play hugely different from 4-4-2. What we can't afford is two out and out wingers, which is what we saw today. With Pritchard, he's everywhere supporting the central midfielders, which you'll never get out of Green.

    Mind you, couldn't even get a cross out of Green today, he was woeful.

    I agree but with 20 to go and a goal down and not looking remotely like scoring you can take a few risks with your formation - take advantage of the fact that Boro were not that good and try to press them with an extra striker! If it doesn't work - at least you have tried something!
    Yep, agreed.
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    The team just didn't create chances - I looked at the screen when our first shot occurred - it was 54 minutes. You are not going to win many matches if it takes you that long to find the goal.

    Way too early to get too despondent though. We will have better days.
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    Saga Lout said:

    The team just didn't create chances - I looked at the screen when our first shot occurred - it was 54 minutes. You are not going to win many matches if it takes you that long to find the goal.

    Way too early to get too despondent though. We will have better days.

    Sordell had a shot at the end of the first half, but still you are correct we hardly created any chances. It always takes us to go a goal down at the Valley before we look like we have any urgency.
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    On holiday so missed this one. Why did JJ go off at half time? Genuinely thought Church would start after midweek and why can't Hollands even get on the bench? He was back to his best on Tuesday with Stephens. Three defenders on the bench at home seems a bit negative to me.

    Sounds like it was there for the taking as it seems Boro weren't up to much either.
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    On another note, Millwall have lost two, conceded four and have yet to score a goal with all those amazing new summer signings.
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    On holiday so missed this one. Why did JJ go off at half time? Genuinely thought Church would start after midweek and why can't Hollands even get on the bench? He was back to his best on Tuesday with Stephens. Three defenders on the bench at home seems a bit negative to me.

    Sounds like it was there for the taking as it seems Boro weren't up to much either.

    JJ was clearly injured, was so off the pace compared to usual. SCP was right to take him off.
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    Have to admit, CP's post match comments were a bit WTF. Streetwise? What does that even mean. Yet to see anyone take any responsibity for today's poor performance, felt like more than a bad day at the office
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    Off_it said:

    _nam11 said:

    I think SCP knows more about man-management than you maginotaddick and I'm sure he'll address the problems in private rather than coming out and saying so and so was a right cock out there today

    And the reason SCP is on a pedestal is because
    to many Charlton fans he was the first Charlton player to represent England in our lifetimes ,
    he represented us during our most successful times in our footballing lives ,
    he came back and managed us to a record points and title winning team,
    he then followed up with (little backing) a more than decent 9th place finish
    which will lead to fucktards thinking that we have a right to be pushing for the play offs this season and moaning like complete fannys after two poor defeats
    Of course he can be criticised and clearly a lot of players underperformed today but he's shown before he can get us going again , patience is the key in SCP we trust

    Take a bow. Nicely put
    Seconded.

    Especially the bit about "fucktards" - made me laugh!
    Yes, top class.

    It is obvious that for a section of our support, who put CP on a pedestal, he will always be the man comewhat may, and even losing 10-0 at home to Millwall will see no criticism of him.

    SCP talk is juvenile.

    Judge him like any other manager. Very good at the end of last season, but tactically embarrassing on our first two games this.
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    Had time to reflect...horrible display.

    Best player was Church purely for his movement and that says a lot about the team performance.

    No urgency for a home team and why we dropped so deep in the 2nd half I don't know.

    Gower is an intelligent player, not sure some others are on his wavelength.

    Central midfielder needed badly.
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    @MuttleyCAFC - 'Boro weren't awful - their movement was good and as a result they consistently got into dangerous positions, ball at feet in and around the penalty area facing goal. The fact that they only created some half-chances was a credit to our defence, especially Dervite.

    @MaginotAddick - the quality of our football (passing, movement etc) has been poor throughout under CP but we are fit and well-organised and he thus delivered results by making us hard to beat, especially away from home. One's view on him thus depends on the relative importance you assign to the latter vs the former.
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    Two things. Firstly, any blame Hamer receives for the goal needs to be given equally to Kermorgant. It was poor from both.

    Secondly, Green is taking major abuse on here, but lets not forget he was still involved in pretty much every chance we had. He probably had three shots in the game, which is a high percentage based on our poor attack yesterday.

    Lets be honest, everyone was poor. Hoping we see a big improvement at Barnsley, who have also lost both games.
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    @ New York

    We have played some good football at times under Powell. I was at Watford and Barnsley ladt season when we played some great stuff. With largely the same players we now look a disorganised mess.

    Ridiculous that some can't accept criticism of Powell , apparently on the grounds that he got an England cap 13 years ago.
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    edited August 2013
    Let it go ffs, starting to sound like a sad old man.

    Nobody is saying CP is beyond criticism (a point that you keep bringing up over and over again)

    What people are saying is either the players didnt perform to anywhere near their best ability and therefore any tactics or instructions CP gave probably became redundant, and that CP has proved time and time again that you just need to have faith in him. It's two games in, cut the man some slack. Just like Solly or Kermogant will get given the benefit of the doubt because we usually get better from them, same with CP.

    The main thing is that if 2 or 3 players don't perform then the other 8 or 9 can bring them through and get a result. That's pretty much true at any level of football. Yesterday, 11 players weren't at the races and you just can't get away with that.
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    As TBBM ("The Bloke Behind Me") said, why didn't we put more pressure on their goalkeeper when he recieved or had the ball as he was obviously injured ? It seemed to me we let him have all the time in the world when in possession (of the ball on the ground) and his kicking was suffering.
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    Ridiculous that some can't accept criticism of Powell , apparently on the grounds that he got an England cap 13 years ago.

    Who suggested we couldn't criticise CP on the grounds that he was an England international?




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    edited August 2013
    I don't think it is down to instructions, more that too many players were off the pace or couldn't string a pass together. Players we know can pass and run! Where I think I am critical of Powell is that whilst it was 0-0, he was unwilling to change it -He is a cautious manager -I was hoping for a bit more adventure this year as I thought that approach cost us more points than it won us last season. Then at 1-0 with 20 odd minutes to go he should have at least gone for broke and swapped a defender for an extra attacker, playing Kermo behind a front two. Would it have worked? Probably not, but the evidence was clear that we needed to try something.

    As for Boro New York - they gave the ball away nearly as much as we did - constantly got harried in central midfield and snatched at the few chances they had with their final ball being woeful. Their width was better than ours however but they created as much as we did - they had the good run and cross shot that went wide just eluding a touch and we had Greens close range effort following good work from from Harriots cross. Not counting the odd speculative shot from either side.

    Their goal was a farce and I blame Hamer because it was a massive error to come out in that situation. Turned a nothing situation into a goal.

    Next game - I'd drop Wiggins unless his fitness improves. I'd drop Morro as he looks like an accident waiting to happen at the moment to me, I'd also drop Gower, Green and Sordell.

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    I don't think it is down to instructions, more that too many players were off the place or couldn't string a pass together. Players we know can pass and run! Where I think I am critical of Powell is that whilst it was 0-0, he was unwilling to change it -He is a cautious manager -I was hoping for a bit more adventure this year as I thought that approach cost us more points than it won us last season. Then at 1-0 with 20 odd minutes to go he should have gone for broke and swapped a defender for an extra attacker, playing Kermo behind a front two. Would it have worked? Probably not, but the evidence was clear that we needed to try something.

    As for Boro New York - they gave the ball away nearly as much as we did - constantly got harried in central midfield and snatched at the few chance they had. Their width was better than ours however but they created as much as we did - they had the good run and cross shot that went wide just eluding a touch and we had Greens close range effort following good work from from Harriots cross. Not counting the odd speculative shot from either side.

    Their goal was a farce and I blame Hamer because it was a massive error to come out in that situation. Turned a nothing situation into a goal.

    Next game - I'd drop Wiggins unless his fitness improves. I'd drop Morro as he looks like an accident waiting to happen at the moment to me, I'd also drop Gower, Green and Sordell.

    For Barnsley next week I would try Wilson in place of Green. I would also like to see Piggot and Cousins start getting some game time, at least off the bench. JP has looked as keen as mustard pre season, he must have fumed yesterday as Sordell turned in a predictably rusty performance. Evina must have strong claims for a start..surely Wiggins cannot be fully fit on that showing ?

    Finally, we need to sign an experienced keeper on loan to start putting some pressure on Hamer IMO.

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    Their were a couple of times when a fit Wiggins would have been up with play in the opponents half and was 15 yards behind it yesterday - can only be fitness IMO!!
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