Still haven't had an answer as to why nobody mided there kids getting choked before the smoking ban.
I'm sure they did, but there was nothing they could do about it, other than avoid places where people smoked.
As I said in my earlier post, I never heard a complaint.
Yes, before the smoking ban everyone was simply delighted to be covered in the smell of your fags and were falling over themselves to have their lungs, and those of their children, polluted by your second hand smoke. Everyone was happy!
Sarcasm does not make you right and neither contributes to sensible debate. To try to imply that I think what you wrote is wishful thinking on your part only.
And what exactly does your point that "nobody complained before" contribute to the discussion?
Exactly that! Outside of a forum I have never heard this debate. The point that you and others are missing is that forum mentality often causes over reaction and tunnel vision. Although a smoker I am anti smoking in public places, but as guilty as others as I have never made my feelings known on many issues until the event of forums. My saving grace is that I will not get personal and / or nastily sarcastic when taking in someone else's point of view.
I write on CL without aggression...if you or others see aggression it is your own.
but the problem is that there are a lot of people who still think this concern is false and whipped up by h & s nerds. I always objected to people smoking around me, even when it was ok by law. Even though I didn't always express my objection to them. I don't much care what people want to do as long as it doesn't negatively effect me and smoking does so I will protest to them and owners of places that should not have smoking going on under their watch.
Simply put, I don't think the club will do anything unless it's hand is forced. This means somebody being willing to report the club to environmental health and therefore introduce the risk of a large fine. The club would then be forced to weigh up the costs of creating outside smoking areas against the cost of repeated fines for failing to stop smoking inside.
It's not a step I'd be keen to take, but if the situation is getting worse (I've only been to a handful of games this calendar year), then it is something that will happen sooner or later it seems.
Why is the answer always to make someone else enforce it? It really is simply. Stop being totally bloody selfish, stop breaking the law and stop smoking in the goddamn toilets.
Not really how things get resolved though is it?
From both points of view no matter how extreme and selfish one or the other may seem the solution can be found as a compromise somewhere in the middle. No two ways about it smoking in the toilets or indoors is not on but even the most casual of social smokers can be stressed out to the the point of gasping for a cigarette. Not an excuse I know. But all the while smoking in the toilets is tolerated iy will carry on
I can be horny beyond reason, I still wait til I get home from the pub to bash one out. Don't like having to wait to have a cigerette? Don't come to a public place for 2 hours where smoking is illegal. Can't believe some of the excuses getting wheeled out in this thread, smoking in a public place like the valley is illegal and is terrible for not only the smokers health but the people around them as well. Can't wait for a ciggy? Don't come to a game, then realise your drug habit is infringing on the things you enjoy in life and then realise that by smoking you will eventually be at such a state where you can't do anything without being on an oxygen tank. Does my chances of getting cancer and tarring up my lungs increase when you have a beer next to me? Not at all, does smoking? Yes. That's why it's illegal in football stadiums.
Smoking is not illegal at football stadiums. Charlton imposed a complete smoking ban. This is not a rerquirement by law. As for not not coming to the game, i was coming here when this was perfectly acceptable, so don't get on your fucking high horse about who should/shouldn't come to watch football. However, smoking in the toilets is not acceptable. I would not lower myself to do this. On the few occasions i go now, i would just go out on the forecourt of the east stand and have one, and if by standing on the bank of the Landsdown Mews entrance having a cigarette annoys you, then bollocks to ya. Thats my lot on this subject.
I think you'll find smoking indoors is illegal and as the toilets are inside, then smoking there is illegal.
That's not strictly my understanding. I thought it was illegal to smoke in workplaces, be they indoors or outdoors. This is why it is illegal to smoke on a train platform despite it being outdoors - station workers include the platforms as their place of work. It is illegal to smoke anywhere in the stadium as the entire stadium is a workplace. However you can smoke in your home and car despite them being indoors.
I wish that was the case but there's plenty of smoking on my work campus that's legal (they use little bus shelter things) although most people smoke in doorways 'cos they're lazy, and missing the point.
Simply put, I don't think the club will do anything unless it's hand is forced. This means somebody being willing to report the club to environmental health and therefore introduce the risk of a large fine. The club would then be forced to weigh up the costs of creating outside smoking areas against the cost of repeated fines for failing to stop smoking inside.
It's not a step I'd be keen to take, but if the situation is getting worse (I've only been to a handful of games this calendar year), then it is something that will happen sooner or later it seems.
Why is the answer always to make someone else enforce it? It really is simply. Stop being totally bloody selfish, stop breaking the law and stop smoking in the goddamn toilets.
Not really how things get resolved though is it?
From both points of view no matter how extreme and selfish one or the other may seem the solution can be found as a compromise somewhere in the middle. No two ways about it smoking in the toilets or indoors is not on but even the most casual of social smokers can be stressed out to the the point of gasping for a cigarette. Not an excuse I know. But all the while smoking in the toilets is tolerated iy will carry on
I can be horny beyond reason, I still wait til I get home from the pub to bash one out. Don't like having to wait to have a cigerette? Don't come to a public place for 2 hours where smoking is illegal. Can't believe some of the excuses getting wheeled out in this thread, smoking in a public place like the valley is illegal and is terrible for not only the smokers health but the people around them as well. Can't wait for a ciggy? Don't come to a game, then realise your drug habit is infringing on the things you enjoy in life and then realise that by smoking you will eventually be at such a state where you can't do anything without being on an oxygen tank. Does my chances of getting cancer and tarring up my lungs increase when you have a beer next to me? Not at all, does smoking? Yes. That's why it's illegal in football stadiums.
Smoking is not illegal at football stadiums. Charlton imposed a complete smoking ban. This is not a rerquirement by law. As for not not coming to the game, i was coming here when this was perfectly acceptable, so don't get on your fucking high horse about who should/shouldn't come to watch football. However, smoking in the toilets is not acceptable. I would not lower myself to do this. On the few occasions i go now, i would just go out on the forecourt of the east stand and have one, and if by standing on the bank of the Landsdown Mews entrance having a cigarette annoys you, then bollocks to ya. Thats my lot on this subject.
Jimmy, I presume from your name tag you are 28? If so, get a life At 28 you should not be worrying about people smoking.
That's a wholly selfish angle to take on, and while you currently have the freedom to be that way, it does make you... well.. kind of an asshole.
Plenty of right-minded people have told you they don't like breathing your smoke, and it'd be nice if you kept it well out of the way (rather than force anyone who walks past you to inhale it)... but you apparently think you have the freedom to do it anyway so you will. And anyone who dares to object gets called names. So if not an asshole, then at least a bully.
PS It's kinda sweet that you still use the phrase 'get a life' but I'm a little confused - why does being a certain age preclude someone from having an opinion on smoking?
A few barriers around one of the exits in the west, some around one of the exits in the north, and sectioned off areas at the back of the east and south. Only allowed out at half time, allowing the barriers to be removed before the end of the game. They will each need to be supervised by 2 stewards. Problem solved.
No, problem not solved. You'd need permission from the police and local authority to do that first. I'd guess you'd need more than two stewards as well.
Plus Stewards and barriers cost money
Problem solved in theory then.
The barriers would have to be placed where they wouldn't, potentially, block the exit routes. I forget now but I'm sure we need to be able to empty the whole stadium in five minutes. Barriers, by their very nature, prevent this. I suspect that the club have never carried out a feasibility study of this but if they did they might find that it is physically impossible to provide what is being asked for.
I certainly think that opening up the exit gates and allowing some fans to go out and come back in (all the while policing segregation and preventing people from getting in when they haven't got a ticket - with all the potential risks to exceeding safety capacities) is asking too much.
I suspect that there is not an easy (or even practical - logistically or financially) solution to this. That is why the ground has been designated non-smoking. Turning a blind eye has clearly worked for a while, and might continue to do so in the short or medium term, but sooner or later someone will complain to the wrong (or right - depending on your view) person or institution and the club will have to deal with it.
When there are rumors that the club hasn't paid it's milk bill and/or they need a loan from a Director to pay the players wages it is a bit indulgent to expect the club to fund four smoking areas (one for each stand).
I suspect that those demanding smoking zones are probably the same fans that demand that we spend £5m a year in transfer fees while they pay £199 a season for a season ticket and the club runs at a loss of £7m a year.
All very good points that I hadn't thought of.
As I said, in theory it is problem solved, but the reality is a lot harder.
Out of interest, I wonder how many clubs provide smoking areas? I know of Derby, but how many other stadiums have them?
A few in this league for away fans. Off the top of my head, Huddersfield, Bournemouth, Barnsley do, I think Millwall but I didn't try last season.
A few barriers around one of the exits in the west, some around one of the exits in the north, and sectioned off areas at the back of the east and south. Only allowed out at half time, allowing the barriers to be removed before the end of the game. They will each need to be supervised by 2 stewards. Problem solved.
No, problem not solved. You'd need permission from the police and local authority to do that first. I'd guess you'd need more than two stewards as well.
Plus Stewards and barriers cost money
Problem solved in theory then.
The barriers would have to be placed where they wouldn't, potentially, block the exit routes. I forget now but I'm sure we need to be able to empty the whole stadium in five minutes. Barriers, by their very nature, prevent this. I suspect that the club have never carried out a feasibility study of this but if they did they might find that it is physically impossible to provide what is being asked for.
I certainly think that opening up the exit gates and allowing some fans to go out and come back in (all the while policing segregation and preventing people from getting in when they haven't got a ticket - with all the potential risks to exceeding safety capacities) is asking too much.
I suspect that there is not an easy (or even practical - logistically or financially) solution to this. That is why the ground has been designated non-smoking. Turning a blind eye has clearly worked for a while, and might continue to do so in the short or medium term, but sooner or later someone will complain to the wrong (or right - depending on your view) person or institution and the club will have to deal with it.
When there are rumors that the club hasn't paid it's milk bill and/or they need a loan from a Director to pay the players wages it is a bit indulgent to expect the club to fund four smoking areas (one for each stand).
I suspect that those demanding smoking zones are probably the same fans that demand that we spend £5m a year in transfer fees while they pay £199 a season for a season ticket and the club runs at a loss of £7m a year.
All very good points that I hadn't thought of.
As I said, in theory it is problem solved, but the reality is a lot harder.
Out of interest, I wonder how many clubs provide smoking areas? I know of Derby, but how many other stadiums have them?
A few in this league for away fans. Off the top of my head, Huddersfield, Bournemouth, Barnsley do, I think Millwall but I didn't try last season.
yeah, Millwall just let you out the gate where the coaches were parked.
If some people read the whole thread properly they would see that a perfectly logical and feasible solution has already been put forward.
But that would be a compromise.
Having spent my first 50 years having smokers make me share in their disgusting and unhealthy habit, because it was legal, I thought it would be nice to spend my second 50 years in atmospheric heaven, because its no longer legal. After that I may be prepared to compromise ;-)
In my earlier post, I wasn't suggesting that it is illegal to smoke indoors in someone's house, I mean't that as the toilets at the football stadium are indoors, it is illegal to smoke there.
Simply put, I don't think the club will do anything unless it's hand is forced. This means somebody being willing to report the club to environmental health and therefore introduce the risk of a large fine. The club would then be forced to weigh up the costs of creating outside smoking areas against the cost of repeated fines for failing to stop smoking inside.
It's not a step I'd be keen to take, but if the situation is getting worse (I've only been to a handful of games this calendar year), then it is something that will happen sooner or later it seems.
Why is the answer always to make someone else enforce it? It really is simply. Stop being totally bloody selfish, stop breaking the law and stop smoking in the goddamn toilets.
Not really how things get resolved though is it?
From both points of view no matter how extreme and selfish one or the other may seem the solution can be found as a compromise somewhere in the middle. No two ways about it smoking in the toilets or indoors is not on but even the most casual of social smokers can be stressed out to the the point of gasping for a cigarette. Not an excuse I know. But all the while smoking in the toilets is tolerated iy will carry on
I can be horny beyond reason, I still wait til I get home from the pub to bash one out. Don't like having to wait to have a cigerette? Don't come to a public place for 2 hours where smoking is illegal. Can't believe some of the excuses getting wheeled out in this thread, smoking in a public place like the valley is illegal and is terrible for not only the smokers health but the people around them as well. Can't wait for a ciggy? Don't come to a game, then realise your drug habit is infringing on the things you enjoy in life and then realise that by smoking you will eventually be at such a state where you can't do anything without being on an oxygen tank. Does my chances of getting cancer and tarring up my lungs increase when you have a beer next to me? Not at all, does smoking? Yes. That's why it's illegal in football stadiums.
Smoking is not illegal at football stadiums. Charlton imposed a complete smoking ban. This is not a rerquirement by law. As for not not coming to the game, i was coming here when this was perfectly acceptable, so don't get on your fucking high horse about who should/shouldn't come to watch football. However, smoking in the toilets is not acceptable. I would not lower myself to do this. On the few occasions i go now, i would just go out on the forecourt of the east stand and have one, and if by standing on the bank of the Landsdown Mews entrance having a cigarette annoys you, then bollocks to ya. Thats my lot on this subject.
I think you'll find smoking indoors is illegal and as the toilets are inside, then smoking there is illegal.
That's not strictly my understanding. I thought it was illegal to smoke in workplaces, be they indoors or outdoors. This is why it is illegal to smoke on a train platform despite it being outdoors - station workers include the platforms as their place of work. It is illegal to smoke anywhere in the stadium as the entire stadium is a workplace. However you can smoke in your home and car despite them being indoors.
Evening all.
Sorry, going off topic, but when this law was first bought in I was told, by a copper, that if I was driving my van, to or from a job, I wasn't allowed to smoke in it. If I was driving to the shops or visiting family I could. As he said, the law was bought with little or no common sense.
I sit in the Family Stand so use the lower North toilets at that end - which usually are very full of kids. Most of the time no one smokes in there, but a couple of games recently people have started. There are only two cubicles as well and loads of kids lining up to use them. It's pretty selfish to smoke in them I think. I know a lot of smokers don't realise about the smell. I always wear old clothes when I visit my Dad as he's a heavy smoker. He regularly tells me he hasn't had one, and he gets through several cans of air freshener a month, but doesn't realise that the air freshener doesn't make it go away. When I was younger, I never noticed as everything was smoky - the bus, the home, trains,school, work when i started, etc. As places have stopped it, it has become more and more noticeable and I've found my reaction to it getting worse. That said, I think the best solution would be for the club to compromise on this and find some way of letting smokers out (surely it should be simple in the East? And a Millwall mate tells me the free smoking is one of the reasons they think of the Jimmy Seed Stand as better than home).
If some people read the whole thread properly they would see that a perfectly logical and feasible solution has already been put forward.
But that would be a compromise.
Having spent my first 50 years having smokers make me share in their disgusting and unhealthy habit, because it was legal, I thought it would be nice to spend my second 50 years in atmospheric heaven, because its no longer legal. After that I may be prepared to compromise ;-)
Why would smokers smoking outside nowhere near you be a compromise?
If some people read the whole thread properly they would see that a perfectly logical and feasible solution has already been put forward.
But that would be a compromise.
Having spent my first 50 years having smokers make me share in their disgusting and unhealthy habit, because it was legal, I thought it would be nice to spend my second 50 years in atmospheric heaven, because its no longer legal. After that I may be prepared to compromise ;-)
Why would smokers smoking outside nowhere near you be a compromise?
Any smoking in public normalises it. That encourages kids to take it up. That means more adult smokers etc etc etc. The more smokers around, the more likely I am to be affected by them. Smokers by nature are selfish. They have to have their fix and don't care who they affect. For example, most people will accept that resturants are now better places without smoke but you put a British smoker in a Spanish or Greek resturant (out of doors but under cover and shielded from the wind) and guess what .....
I can see you feel strongly about it. Thankfully it's not your decision.
I feel strongly about the poor kids that get introduced to the drug. Smoking is a dying habit. Without the kids taking it up because they see adults smoking it would die out much quicker.
Smokers must surely realise that the current laws are only the start. I would expect the next stage to include bans in all vehicles and near entrances to buildings where smoking is banned. It's only heading in one direction so there is no need to compromise as its only giving smokers more excuses to light-up.
Smoking kills...... End of. You can have people debate where and when it should or shouldn't take place, but smokers should not have any rights to smoke anywhere that impacts non-smokers. All the smoker smart arse comments need not be taken into any consideration.
Comments
I write on CL without aggression...if you or others see aggression it is your own.
Maybe-baby is a troll.
He used to post as windscreen until he was banned for being aggressive.
He's now come back and invented this "hey man, I'm a cool old hippy who smokes dope" identity to wind up people.
Ignore would be my advice
I always objected to people smoking around me, even when it was ok by law. Even though I didn't always express my objection to them.
I don't much care what people want to do as long as it doesn't negatively effect me and smoking does so I will protest to them and owners of places that should not have smoking going on under their watch.
Plenty of right-minded people have told you they don't like breathing your smoke, and it'd be nice if you kept it well out of the way (rather than force anyone who walks past you to inhale it)... but you apparently think you have the freedom to do it anyway so you will. And anyone who dares to object gets called names. So if not an asshole, then at least a bully.
PS It's kinda sweet that you still use the phrase 'get a life' but I'm a little confused - why does being a certain age preclude someone from having an opinion on smoking?
Having spent my first 50 years having smokers make me share in their disgusting and unhealthy habit, because it was legal, I thought it would be nice to spend my second 50 years in atmospheric heaven, because its no longer legal. After that I may be prepared to compromise ;-)
Sorry, going off topic, but when this law was first bought in I was told, by a copper, that if I was driving my van, to or from a job, I wasn't allowed to smoke in it. If I was driving to the shops or visiting family I could. As he said, the law was bought with little or no common sense.
As you were, back to the discussion.
;-)
http://www.thefa.com/~/media/Files/PDF/TheFA/SmokingBan.ashx/SmokingBan.pdf
I know a lot of smokers don't realise about the smell. I always wear old clothes when I visit my Dad as he's a heavy smoker. He regularly tells me he hasn't had one, and he gets through several cans of air freshener a month, but doesn't realise that the air freshener doesn't make it go away.
When I was younger, I never noticed as everything was smoky - the bus, the home, trains,school, work when i started, etc. As places have stopped it, it has become more and more noticeable and I've found my reaction to it getting worse.
That said, I think the best solution would be for the club to compromise on this and find some way of letting smokers out (surely it should be simple in the East? And a Millwall mate tells me the free smoking is one of the reasons they think of the Jimmy Seed Stand as better than home).
No compromise!
Smokers must surely realise that the current laws are only the start. I would expect the next stage to include bans in all vehicles and near entrances to buildings where smoking is banned. It's only heading in one direction so there is no need to compromise as its only giving smokers more excuses to light-up.