Haven't managed to plough through the last 6 pages so apologies if my question has already been covered.
My only real question to our new owner concerns as to how he will prioritise the objectives of the different clubs in his control?
Has he a pecking order or a priority list? My instinct is that he isn't necessarily looking for all his purchases to be the best in their respective national leagues. As I see it he is in it for the cash and will try to improve all the clubs in the hope that they can individually be sold on at a profit.
The jewels in his crown are potentially SL and CAFC as they are the only two who can generate real capital gains on sale. SL can do so by getting into the Chumps League proper whilst CAFC could make a larger capital gain IF he sold them after securing promotion to the Prem.
I suspect that RD will not divulge his master plan but his transfer/loan policy will offer us a clue.
We really don't need an expansion - we need to be financially sustainable - we're leaking thousands per match on the shockingly poor half-time food/drinks situation for a start - it took me 20 minutes to buy a coffee at the Brighton game! The woman served only 8 people in that time.
Thank you Airman for your insight. Do you know, if RD wanted to increase the capacity, what is the maximum we go to?
Without planning consent that's a difficult question to answer. 40,000 may still be achievable, but it would be very expensive.
One of the comments from a previous thread, I believe made by Prague, was that the real need was not so much for increased capacity but for improved hospitality facilities in the form of boxes.
Would we need planning permission for adding boxes?
Thank you Airman for your insight. Do you know, if RD wanted to increase the capacity, what is the maximum we go to?
Without planning consent that's a difficult question to answer. 40,000 may still be achievable, but it would be very expensive.
One of the comments from a previous thread, I believe made by Prague, was that the real need was not so much for increased capacity but for improved hospitality facilities in the form of boxes.
Would we need planning permission for adding boxes?
Airman I know doesnt quite agree with me on this, but I will let him explain his viewpoint.
Right let's keep feet on ground and decide where we are. I believe there are two ways forward and a third off the planet move. 1. The new owner realises we have a pretty good manager, well liked and respected, who has done very well with no money and basically operating in a straightjacket under difficult circumstances but needs someone alongside with real tactical nous. 2. The new owners bring in someone to manage who is a good mate of theirs or worse their advisors but no-one in the UK has heard of and we have to go along as we sink further down the leagues - Christian Gross at Spurs etc etc I favour him seeing SCP pretty early and saying we back you, we agree with your three main priorities as they seem sensible and you can have some money, not mad stuff, to strengthen the squad to basically survive this season and build from there. Or completely left field they go for a Malky Mackay to get us out of the division asap and give everyone a real roller coaster ride that ultimately ends in us yo-yoing premier, championship again. Whatever happens I am fed up with Charlton being seen as a soft touch but nice - Tony Mowbray's famous" We couldn't even beat Charlton at home!" - and just wish we become financially stable, play good, winning football that gets us up the table and gives us all a sense of positive direction.
The hospitality and conference facilities at the Valley, are some of the worst in London at a sports ground. Improving or expanding those would help a lot
The hospitality and conference facilities at the Valley, are some of the worst in London at a sports ground. Improving or expanding those would help a lot
Thank you Airman for your insight. Do you know, if RD wanted to increase the capacity, what is the maximum we go to?
Without planning consent that's a difficult question to answer. 40,000 may still be achievable, but it would be very expensive.
One of the comments from a previous thread, I believe made by Prague, was that the real need was not so much for increased capacity but for improved hospitality facilities in the form of boxes.
Would we need planning permission for adding boxes?
The club would need planning consent, but that wouldn't be the issue, I think, more to the point is whether there is or would be demand. However, it's really not my thing.
The hospitality and conference facilities at the Valley, are some of the worst in London at a sports ground. Improving or expanding those would help a lot
What worst than Palace and Fulham do me a favour
Likewise bewildered. I've been in most of the hospitality suites and whilst clearly not to be confused with Claridges all of the facilities provide good no nonsense grub at a very reasonable price (perhaps too reasonable!) and the staff have always been friendly and helpful.
The hospitality and conference facilities at the Valley, are some of the worst in London at a sports ground. Improving or expanding those would help a lot
What worst than Palace and Fulham do me a favour
Yep, The facilities at the top of the Sainsbury's end, and the boxes Fulham have in the corner and Riverside stands are pretty good, in comparison with what's at the Valley.
The conference facilities are shocking at the Valley (and that's not just the rooms, it's the food and additional requirements)
If I may go back a little are we now saying that it would cost between £50m and £100m to add 13,000 more seats? That's between £3,846 and £7,692 per seat.
If I may go back a little are we now saying that it would cost between £50m and £100m to add 13,000 more seats? That's between £3,846 and £7,692 per seat.
That does seem wildly extravagant. Diverting slightly, I note that the concept of 'safe standing' is gathering momentum again. Is there any appetite for this among fellow Lifers? In past decades I was always a committed standee - even disdained the seats - but fear that the aching limbs may be catching up on me...
The hospitality and conference facilities at the Valley, are some of the worst in London at a sports ground. Improving or expanding those would help a lot
The famous Valley Portakabin lounge was better than the Selhurst facilities!
They may not be up to the top London clubs, Twickenham, The Oval etc but they are surely as good as most grounds of a similar size.
If I may go back a little are we now saying that it would cost between £50m and £100m to add 13,000 more seats? That's between £3,846 and £7,692 per seat.
That does seem wildly extravagant. Diverting slightly, I note that the concept of 'safe standing' is gathering momentum again. Is there any appetite for this among fellow Lifers? In past decades I was always a committed standee - even disdained the seats - but fear that the aching limbs may be catching up on me...
Hate it when the "stand up if you love Charlton" chant comes up. All about the sit down.
If RD has bought Charlton to make a profit, the only way he can do that is to get us in the top half of the premier. If he can do that for a few years, then sells us for a profit, I do not blame him, and cannot complain. Unfortunately I cannot see how he can make profit with the capacity of the Valley. I think I am right in that we will not be able to expand to 40,000, which I would have thought would be the minimum required. I do not know how big we could become, but it would seem ( and I do not want this anymore than others), we will have to get a bigger stadium, on the peninsular or elsewhere. Economic reality!
This is not the only way to make a profit though...if he can get Charlton into the play-offs, our club value is (a gamble I know) increased hugely, and if we were then promoted, he could, in theory, sell us that summer for £40 or £50 million and therefore make a very good, double your money, profit in just matter of months (6 or 18).
Hopefully he is here for the long run, and we will get a prolonged period in the top league that will catapult us into a valuation a la Fulham (recently sold for £300 million..) - then he could recoup major wonga!
I agree £300 million is a silly price to pay for a football club (especially Fulham!), but the US guy did it...
I can't see beyond this scenario. If you want to make money, surely the plan involves making the club enticing to the wealthy buyers that are out there and selling it. Of course Fulham are not worth £300 million, but somebody was willing to pay it! Charlton offer a unique opportunity in my opinion because we are a London club and because of the peninsula option. Too big a project for RD to take on, but to a wealthy consortium or individual who wants the kudos , well I can't think of any teams that would be more attractive. Of course the club needs to be woken out of its slumber, but that is what businessmen do who want to make money - they spot the opportunity and have a plan to achieve their goal.
People saying we need 7 or 8 players are forgetting that we nearly made the play offs last year, and most of the players involved in that are still here. We need to strengthen and push on using the solid playing base we have and that is still the case, although we have wasted months because of our financial problems. We do need the squad strentghened a bit which can be done relatively cheaply, and a couple of more expensive players up front and wide midfield and we will then be highly competitive in a league which doesn't have a big gap between all the teams in it. Remember we have beaten the top of the league side already this season as we did last season.
Its a bit like property developing - there are people who buy a house cheaply and do it up and there are people who are in the market to buy the house (providing a healthy profit) when it is done up. The latter could do the former but they prefer to come in when the hard work is done. Of course there is a risk, but the potential profit is worth the risk to RD I would say. And he can always sell to somebody else willing to take the same risk if it doesn't go to plan - we should remember there have been a number of potential buyers sniffing around.
Surely with the long anticipated takeover down and dusted, this gloriously successful thread should be closed. Let it enjoy some privacy in which to bask smugly in its superiority over Mk I and Mk II.
I think the issue here is the lack of private boxes rather than the hospitality suites.
It's off topic, but this has been the club strategic view in the past. There are two points:
1. Having lots of boxes gives us a competitive advantage over non London teams, as the demand is stronger here (Airman questions whether the demand is that strong)
2. They say that what gets Gold and Sullivan going about the Olympic is not the capacity per se, but the 5,000 capacity for prawn sandwich consumers.
The obvious difference with property speculation is that the end buyer usually wants it as a home.
I'm not saying nobody would ever pay £300m but asking why the f#ck they would. The only reason I can think of is that you are worth at least twice that and you love the club concerned and aren't bothered about an investment return. If RD is a good investor i would think he needs to be the second-last to buy CAFC in order to cash in.
My point is that eventually there is no prospect of a ROI and every chance of a whopping loss.
But you ask why they would when somebody already has. Ok, maybe he won't find such a mug so easily but half that would amount to a tidy profit. I'm sure he understands that there are risks involved but if he is looking to make money - which I don't doubt he is - that is the way. Can you think of a better way?
Yes a house buyer buys a house to live in, but there are all sorts of reasons why they buy the houses they do beyond that.
I would say that if RD plays his hand well, here is every chance of a return.
Don't want to be pedantic, but posters keep stating that the price Shahid Khan paid for Fulham was £300m. As far as I know, Khan's aim was to keep the price confidential, i.e. it has not been made public, but media reports at the time estimated that he paid between £150-200m. A big sum, but a long way south of £300m.
But there is no need to be pedantic because the alternative figures you use don't change the point being made. My view is, and it is only a view - that whilst RD will have no interest in the Peninsula whilst he is in charge, it would have had a bearing in his decision.
Comments
My only real question to our new owner concerns as to how he will prioritise the objectives of the different clubs in his control?
Has he a pecking order or a priority list? My instinct is that he isn't necessarily looking for all his purchases to be the best in their respective national leagues. As I see it he is in it for the cash and will try to improve all the clubs in the hope that they can individually be sold on at a profit.
The jewels in his crown are potentially SL and CAFC as they are the only two who can generate real capital gains on sale. SL can do so by getting into the Chumps League proper whilst CAFC could make a larger capital gain IF he sold them after securing promotion to the Prem.
I suspect that RD will not divulge his master plan but his transfer/loan policy will offer us a clue.
Would we need planning permission for adding boxes?
I favour him seeing SCP pretty early and saying we back you, we agree with your three main priorities as they seem sensible and you can have some money, not mad stuff, to strengthen the squad to basically survive this season and build from there.
Or completely left field they go for a Malky Mackay to get us out of the division asap and give everyone a real roller coaster ride that ultimately ends in us yo-yoing premier, championship again.
Whatever happens I am fed up with Charlton being seen as a soft touch but nice - Tony Mowbray's famous" We couldn't even beat Charlton at home!" - and just wish we become financially stable, play good, winning football that gets us up the table and gives us all a sense of positive direction.
I've been in most of the hospitality suites and whilst clearly not to be confused with Claridges all of the facilities provide good no nonsense grub at a very reasonable price (perhaps too reasonable!) and the staff have always been friendly and helpful.
The conference facilities are shocking at the Valley (and that's not just the rooms, it's the food and additional requirements)
They may not be up to the top London clubs, Twickenham, The Oval etc but they are surely as good as most grounds of a similar size.
People saying we need 7 or 8 players are forgetting that we nearly made the play offs last year, and most of the players involved in that are still here. We need to strengthen and push on using the solid playing base we have and that is still the case, although we have wasted months because of our financial problems. We do need the squad strentghened a bit which can be done relatively cheaply, and a couple of more expensive players up front and wide midfield and we will then be highly competitive in a league which doesn't have a big gap between all the teams in it. Remember we have beaten the top of the league side already this season as we did last season.
Its a bit like property developing - there are people who buy a house cheaply and do it up and there are people who are in the market to buy the house (providing a healthy profit) when it is done up. The latter could do the former but they prefer to come in when the hard work is done. Of course there is a risk, but the potential profit is worth the risk to RD I would say. And he can always sell to somebody else willing to take the same risk if it doesn't go to plan - we should remember there have been a number of potential buyers sniffing around.
AFKA can always open MK IV just in case.
1. Having lots of boxes gives us a competitive advantage over non London teams, as the demand is stronger here (Airman questions whether the demand is that strong)
2. They say that what gets Gold and Sullivan going about the Olympic is not the capacity per se, but the 5,000 capacity for prawn sandwich consumers.
I'm not saying nobody would ever pay £300m but asking why the f#ck they would. The only reason I can think of is that you are worth at least twice that and you love the club concerned and aren't bothered about an investment return. If RD is a good investor i would think he needs to be the second-last to buy CAFC in order to cash in.
My point is that eventually there is no prospect of a ROI and every chance of a whopping loss.
Yes a house buyer buys a house to live in, but there are all sorts of reasons why they buy the houses they do beyond that.
I would say that if RD plays his hand well, here is every chance of a return.