Interesting the things that are starting to come to light, i wouldnt blame KC for stopping the cash if he knew one of the directors was pocketing it. It would also explain those that left at a point of principle - i dont think i ever remember airman ever saying anything about KC but rather TJ and MS.
I'm in no doubt personally that Slater has been representing Cash and there are people who could give evidence to that effect.
I always thought it was taken as read but what do I know!
I remember you saying at.the time from your linkman that Powell was not their first choice ans they were biding their time for their man.
Was it Poyet ?
Yep...but with Brighton having won promotion in 2010/11, I anticipated that both clubs might get off to poor starts (after all Powell's half-season in charge had been dire), and this would present the opportunity for the change without either our Board our Poyet 'losing face' as I put it at the time.
As it transpired Powell started well as did Brighton and thus it never happened - probably just as well for us (and Poyet).
I remember you saying at.the time from your linkman that Powell was not their first choice ans they were biding their time for their man.
Was it Poyet ?
Yep...but with Brighton having won promotion in 2010/11, I anticipated that both clubs might get off to poor starts (after all Powell's half-season in charge had been dire), and this would present the opportunity for the change without either our Board our Poyet 'losing face' as I put it at the time.
As it transpired Powell started well as did Brighton and thus it never happened - probably just as well for us (and Poyet).
Fascinating to have that confirmed NYA, thanks for that.
But you have to suppose that Poyet would only have been tempted anyway, if his then mate Tone had been able to say that Kevin Cash was going to splash... because otherwise at the time Brighton seemed to be in better financial shape as a club than we were, at least that was my perception at the time.
Personally I wouldn't swap CP for Poyet, I think Poyet has some serious questions to answer about his behaviour at Brighton.
But TJ could have offered job security so long as 'the plan' remained intact, which he (clearly with hindsight) never had at Brighton....anyhow it's all now moot.
I think most fans would have accepted Poyet in say summer 2011 but understandably it would have been irrational to have left Brighton at that juncture.
@newyorkaddick Ohio I remember you saying at.the time from your linkman that Powell was not their first choice ans they were biding their time for their man. Was it Poyet ?
Do me a favour smudge,poet lived next door and was doing well an was ex Chelsea who do.u think was going to the preferred choice. I EXPECT BETTER
With the peninsula opportunity, you can see how a Premiership Charlton would really appeal to an owner with big money in the near future. Imagine owning a top club, based in the heart of Europe's financial capital on a truly stunning site. £300m for Fulham, not out of the question for us under those conditions. TJ sniffed it, but ultimately didn't have the money to get there.
Now the Belgian is going to have a crack at the jackpot! It is also a mistake in my opinion to look at the owners other clubs. Charlton offers him a unique and different opportunity to make money.
I agree with a lot of what you say with the exception of the above two points.
VOTV has set out in detail the obstacles and problems of any peninsula move - in particular that one of the two possible sites is already in the hands of a developer who has already announced plans and engaged architects for a more limited 'events space' smaller than the valley and unsuitable for football (and you have to wonder why they would do that if the opportunities are so great), while the other possible site seems to be heavily polluted and has serious access problems.
As for it being "a mistake...to look at the owners other clubs" I think that the detail and consistency of the (negative) information that has been posted on here by a number of fans of Duchatelet's other clubs is something we should take seriously.
I am speculating, but I don't think RD would even contemplate such a move, but he will know that a very wealthy potential buyer might. It doesn't really come down to what fans think at the end of the day - look at Cardiff. The problem as I see it is that it wouldn't be necessarily a move made for business decisions but vanity. The mega wealthy football owners are not in it to make a profit and I am considering factors that will entice one to buy us. Of course there are no certainties and RD may not achieve his aims, but he knows there were a fair number of buyers sniffing around at the same time as him, so if the project looks like it is not going to plan he can try to sell and get some of his money back. The profit that can be made is worth the risk.
I think we need to keep in mind that he is out to make money. That is what Belgian fans of his other clubs are telling us. This is the scenario where he makes it so is the obvious one IMO. Of course he needs us to be successful for it to work.
Oohaah sometimes mate things aint what they seem, the club was in decline since the premiership years, which includes all them longstanding members of staff who many were recruited in our pomp, something had to give.
I understand that and a lot of people had left before the arrival of TJ and co because we'd been out of the prem for 4.5 seasons but the way they went about streamlining us could definitely have been done better
Thing is, if you want to blame the staff for the decline - although it was really about the team - the business was not in decline in the summer of 2012. It was recovering and this was because of decisions made by the management that was then removed (Varney/Kavanagh). It is now under performing because of the management that replaced them, issues within it and a structure that doesn't work.
The long-serving and senior staff that have left in recent months haven't gone because of Slater and Jimenez - they've left because the current senior management is inadequate and uses the disciplinary system to bully people. All this has been pointed out to the board, Prothero and more recently Murray, but thus far they haven't been interested. Now management is worried and upset that Dave Archer and Prettee Jayasundera are leaving too, because they've lost too much knowledge from within the business and are less and less able to cope, yet it's no one's fault but their own - or if you like the board for creating this situation in the first place.
There are still a lot of good people on the staff, if generally short of experience, but it needs capable leadership at the top to hold people to account and put a stop to nonsense - in short an experienced full-time chief executive, which may well be someone completely new to the club. I'm not arguing for bringing any individual back, but the idea the set-up has been improved is laughable and everybody close to the situation knows that.
Playing devil's advocate here a little, but you seem to be describing senior management ability and behaviours as the problem, but that's the people rather than the structure itself. I'm in no position to comment as to whether the structure's better or worse, but I wonder if it might have seen more [internal] success with different personalities? Those of the incumbents no doubt reflect those who appointed them.
Oohaah sometimes mate things aint what they seem, the club was in decline since the premiership years, which includes all them longstanding members of staff who many were recruited in our pomp, something had to give.
I understand that and a lot of people had left before the arrival of TJ and co because we'd been out of the prem for 4.5 seasons but the way they went about streamlining us could definitely have been done better
Thing is, if you want to blame the staff for the decline - although it was really about the team - the business was not in decline in the summer of 2012. It was recovering and this was because of decisions made by the management that was then removed (Varney/Kavanagh). It is now under performing because of the management that replaced them, issues within it and a structure that doesn't work.
The long-serving and senior staff that have left in recent months haven't gone because of Slater and Jimenez - they've left because the current senior management is inadequate and uses the disciplinary system to bully people. All this has been pointed out to the board, Prothero and more recently Murray, but thus far they haven't been interested. Now management is worried and upset that Dave Archer and Prettee Jayasundera are leaving too, because they've lost too much knowledge from within the business and are less and less able to cope, yet it's no one's fault but their own - or if you like the board for creating this situation in the first place.
There are still a lot of good people on the staff, if generally short of experience, but it needs capable leadership at the top to hold people to account and put a stop to nonsense - in short an experienced full-time chief executive, which may well be someone completely new to the club. I'm not arguing for bringing any individual back, but the idea the set-up has been improved is laughable and everybody close to the situation knows that.
Playing devil's advocate here a little, but you seem to be describing senior management ability and behaviours as the problem, but that's the people rather than the structure itself. I'm in no position to comment as to whether the structure's better or worse, but I wonder if it might have seen more [internal] success with different personalities? Those of the incumbents no doubt reflect those who appointed them.
I think it's both. Prothero, working part-time and living in Cheshire, was supposedly at the apex of it. He was in no position to hold the people below him to account properly, even had he been so inclined, but it was his structure and he recruited to it. He declined opportunities to intervene, as far as the staff could tell. In practice, as one director has commented, he preferred to spend what time he had with the playing side.
The senior management was appointed on the cheap, which is one explanation of the outcomes, but Prothero wasn't cheap. He was very expensive.
Oohaah sometimes mate things aint what they seem, the club was in decline since the premiership years, which includes all them longstanding members of staff who many were recruited in our pomp, something had to give.
I understand that and a lot of people had left before the arrival of TJ and co because we'd been out of the prem for 4.5 seasons but the way they went about streamlining us could definitely have been done better
Thing is, if you want to blame the staff for the decline - although it was really about the team - the business was not in decline in the summer of 2012. It was recovering and this was because of decisions made by the management that was then removed (Varney/Kavanagh). It is now under performing because of the management that replaced them, issues within it and a structure that doesn't work.
The long-serving and senior staff that have left in recent months haven't gone because of Slater and Jimenez - they've left because the current senior management is inadequate and uses the disciplinary system to bully people. All this has been pointed out to the board, Prothero and more recently Murray, but thus far they haven't been interested. Now management is worried and upset that Dave Archer and Prettee Jayasundera are leaving too, because they've lost too much knowledge from within the business and are less and less able to cope, yet it's no one's fault but their own - or if you like the board for creating this situation in the first place.
There are still a lot of good people on the staff, if generally short of experience, but it needs capable leadership at the top to hold people to account and put a stop to nonsense - in short an experienced full-time chief executive, which may well be someone completely new to the club. I'm not arguing for bringing any individual back, but the idea the set-up has been improved is laughable and everybody close to the situation knows that.
Playing devil's advocate here a little, but you seem to be describing senior management ability and behaviours as the problem, but that's the people rather than the structure itself. I'm in no position to comment as to whether the structure's better or worse, but I wonder if it might have seen more [internal] success with different personalities? Those of the incumbents no doubt reflect those who appointed them.
I think it's both. Prothero, working part-time and living in Cheshire, was supposedly at the apex of it. He was in no position to hold the people below him to account, even had he been so inclined. In practice, ad one director commented, he preferred to spend what time he had with the playing side.
As do we as fans. But in any workplace you get these things happen - it only takes one or two ar*****les and things can change for the better. Hopefully they will.
The problem with Charlton as a dysfunctional workplace seems to be ascribed to lack of oversight/control of management by the absent chief executive and indifferent board of directors. Although Prothero has now cleared his desk, I assume the individuals that created the toxic atmosphere at Charlton are still employed there and that further housecleaning is required to fully resolve the issue.
The problem with Charlton as a dysfunctional workplace seems to be ascribed to lack of oversight/control of management by the absent chief executive and indifferent board of directors. Although Prothero has now cleared his desk, I assume the individuals that created the toxic atmosphere at Charlton are still employed there and that further housecleaning is required to fully resolve the issue.
To be fair, Prothero was never chief executive and was always clear that he didn't want to be "an executive", although this itself begs a number of questions.
The problem with Charlton as a dysfunctional workplace seems to be ascribed to lack of oversight/control of management by the absent chief executive and indifferent board of directors. Although Prothero has now cleared his desk, I assume the individuals that created the toxic atmosphere at Charlton are still employed there and that further housecleaning is required to fully resolve the issue.
To be fair, Prothero was never chief executive and was always clear that he didn't want to be "an executive", although this itself begs a number of questions.
What on earth was the thinking when Prothero was hired? It did seem to be a very strange appointment. Moreover, what was his motivation?
The problem with Charlton as a dysfunctional workplace seems to be ascribed to lack of oversight/control of management by the absent chief executive and indifferent board of directors. Although Prothero has now cleared his desk, I assume the individuals that created the toxic atmosphere at Charlton are still employed there and that further housecleaning is required to fully resolve the issue.
To be fair, Prothero was never chief executive and was always clear that he didn't want to be "an executive", although this itself begs a number of questions.
What on earth was the thinking when Prothero was hired? It did seem to be a very strange appointment. Moreover, what was his motivation?
One of the great mysteries. Not sure if it was a case of jobs for the boys or the that they thought he must be good due to the positions he held at previous employers. Sure airman would have a clue.
The problem with Charlton as a dysfunctional workplace seems to be ascribed to lack of oversight/control of management by the absent chief executive and indifferent board of directors. Although Prothero has now cleared his desk, I assume the individuals that created the toxic atmosphere at Charlton are still employed there and that further housecleaning is required to fully resolve the issue.
To be fair, Prothero was never chief executive and was always clear that he didn't want to be "an executive", although this itself begs a number of questions.
What on earth was the thinking when Prothero was hired? It did seem to be a very strange appointment. Moreover, what was his motivation?
One of the great mysteries. Not sure if it was a case of jobs for the boys or the that they thought he must be good due to the positions he held at previous employers. Sure airman would have a clue.
Ha ha, I'm sure he does - and I would imagine it will be totally impartial!
Was prothero not brought in to find a buyer for the club? It kind of worked if he was
No, he wasn't. And in fact I understand that at times he was even outside the loop when due diligence was being done.
That doesn't surprise me. Do you have any idea what the thinking might have been? As I noted above, it did seem to be a very odd appointment.
The most straightforward answer is that PV was leaving at the end of June or July 2012 (I can't remember which off the top of my head) and they needed someone to take over formal responsibility for player recruitment, contracts, etc.
Allied to this is the interesting question of who chose Prothero. From subsequent information I would be confident it wasn't Slater and I doubt if it was Murray. I believe Prothero has some property development interests and had encountered Jimenez one way or another. But it's also possible it was Cash.
In the event Steve Kavanagh gave notice as chief executive in July 2012 and was then sacked by public announcement on the internet, which in effect expanded Prothero's role into an awkward halfway house, but whether this was unexpected by the board is hard to say.
Was prothero not brought in to find a buyer for the club? It kind of worked if he was
No, he wasn't. And in fact I understand that at times he was even outside the loop when due diligence was being done.
That doesn't surprise me. Do you have any idea what the thinking might have been? As I noted above, it did seem to be a very odd appointment.
The most straightforward answer is that PV was leaving at the end of June or July 2012 (I can't remember which off the top of my head) and they needed someone to take over formal responsibility for player recruitment, contracts, etc.
Allied to this is the interesting question of who chose Prothero. From subsequent information I would be confident it wasn't Slater and I doubt if it was Murray. I believe Prothero has some property development interests and had encountered Jimenez one way or another. But it's also possible it was Cash.
In the event Steve Kavanagh gave notice as chief executive in July 2012 and was then sacked by public announcement on the internet, which in effect expanded Prothero's role into an awkward halfway house, but whether this was unexpected by the board is hard to say.
I know you can't read much into it but Prothero seemed to always sit with Slater and Murray at games well away from jimenez. Who, it appeared, tried to sit as far away as possible frm 'that lot'.
If Prothero was hired by Jimenez I wonder if it was on the basis of a "vision" which almost immediately became redundant as the cash ran out, forcing Jimenez to switch to plate spinning mode?
It's idle speculation on my part really, but it's interesting to ponder just what might have happened had the original plan (and budget) for the first season in the Championship been funded. I wonder if there's any regret about that.
Perhaps none is to blame. The problem came with the CCC budget, but didn't Sky cut the 2nd tier shareout soon after the buyout? Added to this the inexplicable lack of Live games further depleted the budget. Lucky we made it this far in still decent shape and regardless of signings, Poyet, Gomes and Aherne-Grant are waiting in the wings behind Smith and I'm sure the Pig will prove doubters wrong after a loan spell.
Perhaps too early to commit, but I'm going to have to disagree about Pigott. Looks slow, realatively lightweight for someone of his size and on the whole, awkward on the ball. All for giving players a chance, but just doesn't sit right for me at all
It's now pretty obvious that the big fall out in the summer of 2012 led not only to the withdrawal of funding by Cash but also to the departures of Varney & Kavanagh. There are big hints above in this thread about what actually happened &, if true, there should be huge regrets from the previous regime.
Was prothero not brought in to find a buyer for the club? It kind of worked if he was
No, he wasn't. And in fact I understand that at times he was even outside the loop when due diligence was being done.
That doesn't surprise me. Do you have any idea what the thinking might have been? As I noted above, it did seem to be a very odd appointment.
The most straightforward answer is that PV was leaving at the end of June or July 2012 (I can't remember which off the top of my head) and they needed someone to take over formal responsibility for player recruitment, contracts, etc.
Allied to this is the interesting question of who chose Prothero. From subsequent information I would be confident it wasn't Slater and I doubt if it was Murray. I believe Prothero has some property development interests and had encountered Jimenez one way or another. But it's also possible it was Cash.
In the event Steve Kavanagh gave notice as chief executive in July 2012 and was then sacked by public announcement on the internet, which in effect expanded Prothero's role into an awkward halfway house, but whether this was unexpected by the board is hard to say.
I know you can't read much into it but Prothero seemed to always sit with Slater and Murray at games well away from jimenez. Who, it appeared, tried to sit as far away as possible frm 'that lot'.
Noticed that too over the last year. Slater and Jimenez sat nowhere near each other. Bit of a fallout maybe?
If Roland Duchatelet has gaps in his knowledge of Championship football then at least we have some insurance in that Richard Murray is staying on board and will have the authority to communicate what he has witnessed of this squad and management over the last three years - after all he has been watching the same games as us -no pressure!
Interesting comment by Slater on 2010/11: "We had a lot of players coming to the end of their contracts and that can affect performance..." Maybe someone should remind RD of this?!
Interesting comment by Slater on 2010/11: "We had a lot of players coming to the end of their contracts and that can affect performance..." Maybe someone should remind RD of this?!
Comments
I remember you saying at.the time from your linkman that Powell was not their first choice ans they were biding their time for their man.
Was it Poyet ?
As it transpired Powell started well as did Brighton and thus it never happened - probably just as well for us (and Poyet).
But you have to suppose that Poyet would only have been tempted anyway, if his then mate Tone had been able to say that Kevin Cash was going to splash... because otherwise at the time Brighton seemed to be in better financial shape as a club than we were, at least that was my perception at the time.
Personally I wouldn't swap CP for Poyet, I think Poyet has some serious questions to answer about his behaviour at Brighton.
I think most fans would have accepted Poyet in say summer 2011 but understandably it would have been irrational to have left Brighton at that juncture.
next door and was doing well an was ex Chelsea who do.u think was going to the preferred choice. I EXPECT BETTER
I think we need to keep in mind that he is out to make money. That is what Belgian fans of his other clubs are telling us. This is the scenario where he makes it so is the obvious one IMO. Of course he needs us to be successful for it to work.
The senior management was appointed on the cheap, which is one explanation of the outcomes, but Prothero wasn't cheap. He was very expensive.
Allied to this is the interesting question of who chose Prothero. From subsequent information I would be confident it wasn't Slater and I doubt if it was Murray. I believe Prothero has some property development interests and had encountered Jimenez one way or another. But it's also possible it was Cash.
In the event Steve Kavanagh gave notice as chief executive in July 2012 and was then sacked by public announcement on the internet, which in effect expanded Prothero's role into an awkward halfway house, but whether this was unexpected by the board is hard to say.
If Prothero was hired by Jimenez I wonder if it was on the basis of a "vision" which almost immediately became redundant as the cash ran out, forcing Jimenez to switch to plate spinning mode?
It's idle speculation on my part really, but it's interesting to ponder just what might have happened had the original plan (and budget) for the first season in the Championship been funded. I wonder if there's any regret about that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSsCl4cUVg8
http://www.southlondon-today.co.uk/Sport.cfm?id=1905&headline=Slater:
http://www.southlondon-today.co.uk/Sport.cfm?id=1904&headline=Exclusive: