“With the current uncertainty over which division the club will be playing in next season, I thought it would be unfair on supporters to increase prices for next year’s season tickets at this time,” said Chief Commercial Officer Ben Kensell.
“Our fans have shown fantastic loyalty over the course of what has been, at times, a difficult season and it is only right that they are certain what division the club will be in before the deadline is imposed.
What is the massive issue here?
They gave a deadline for the current prices, and looked to review the price at this point with our leage status in mind. As we may still get relegated they have kept the prices the same. If we had our Championship status confirmed for next season then they probably would have bumped the prices up a tad.
Some people are making a mountain out of a mole hill again.
But it doesn’t wash does it.
2014/15 season ticket prices and the April 9th ‘deadline’ were announced on March 7th. At that point we were 22nd - in the relegation zone – and had been since January, before things briefly got worse (due to cup games, cancelled games etc) and we slipped to 24th.
We returned to 22nd after the Millwall draw, before ‘climbing’ to 21st – just outside the relegation zone – following the Bournemouth game, where we have been stuck ever since.
So “what division the club will be in” next season has been ‘uncertain’ throughout the period from March 7th to April 9th – and probably more so just before April 9th (when our games in hand were reducing and our goal difference worsening) yet fans were bombarded with texts and emails stressing it was the ‘deadline’ to buy at the ‘early bird’ prices.
So for Ben Kensell to now say that “it is only right that [fans] are certain what division the club will be in before the deadline is imposed” does rather add a touch of insult to injury to those fans who may have stretched themselves financially to meet the April 9th ‘deadline’ – why wasn’t it ‘only right’ before then - our league status was uncertain both before and afterwards?
I just find it crazy that the club have kept the prices the same, and instead of applauding the club for doing this some fans are moaning because the prices haven't gone up so they haven't saved any money.
Prices will go up £25 if/when we stay up so every adult who renewed will have saved money if we stay up.
No one is complaining that they haven't saved any money. It is the way it has been mishandled that some people don't like.
Where does it say specifically that prices are going to increase?
'Wednesday is the final day for supporters to secure their spot in SE7 next season at the best rate possible.'
I think it's fair to assume that if Wednesday is the last day to get the best rate possible Thursday is too late to get the best rate possible. Thus by Thursday a different rate must apply. Technically, if the prices had gone up by 1p then the statement wouldn't have been a lie, it would have been misleading, but not a lie. The fact that the rate was exactly the same after the 9th, which was the day they published the lie, leaves the club no defense, at all, at the accusation that it lied to its most loyal customers.
The biggest problem with this is that it sets a precedent. We now have to assume that the club have no qualms about lying to fans if it suits them. I know this sounds a little dramatic, but on the basis that this was easily avoided by extending the deadline to the 19th May back in March it smacks of a total lack of respect, and it will be years before I believe any PR about season ticket sales in the future. Should enough people take the same approach I have they will struggle to sell any tickets early again. This will compound the problem as they will feel even less able to increase the price if they sell thousands fewer tickets early next season.
I suspect that in the absence of Airman Brown, and some others, that used to be involved with the season ticket prices, they have been making ti up as they go along - clearly without the benefit of input by fans. If we are relegated are they going to slash the prices? If so re those that renewed early going to be given a refund? It wouldn't surprise me!
I acknowledge that I am making a bit of a mountain out of a mole hill, but the club rely on our support at games, they rely on our financial support through buying tickets as well as other stiff, I just think that this is a terrible way to do business. I'm not exaggerating when I say that if this was any other organisation I would refuse to deal with them again and even though it's childish I will probably look for a way to with hold some money from the club as a result. I might pass on a cup game, I might not buy a shirt next season. It doesn't really matter, it will make me feel better and it will cost the club something - I seriously doubt that they will make any more money in total than they would if they'd either raised the prices from today, or advised us they weren't going to a month ago.
What's worse is that Ben, what's his name, must be a thick as s**t to not have realised how much of a mistake this course of action was. It frightens me that he has a position making decisions for the club when he can make such a fundamental mistake!
I just find it crazy that the club have kept the prices the same, and instead of applauding the club for doing this some fans are moaning because the prices haven't gone up so they haven't saved any money.
Prices will go up £25 if/when we stay up so every adult who renewed will have saved money if we stay up.
No one is complaining that they haven't saved any money. It is the way it has been mishandled that some people don't like.
Exactly Henry, I renewed last week (I was always going to renew), its because the club implied that prices would go up, I got in early, I could have done with the cost being next month, what with Easter holidays etc. So I feel let down by the club and feel that they have not been transparent.
People are moaning because the prices haven't gone up
Un-freekin' believable
Why do so many people hate the club quite so much ? If I hated anything to the same extent I wouldn't do it
But we're not moaning because the prices haven't gone up, we're moaning because we were lied to and 'bullied' into paying early, reminded three times in a week by text, and then the club announce that due to a circumstance, that we all knew anyway, they are going to extend the deadline until after another pay day.
I think this only shows that season ticket numbers are dreadful compared to prior years, although I'm sure A block in the east has more or less sold out
I would be staggered if we have sold more than 3000
No moans from me as I haven't and am unlikely to renew next season, 29 years wasn't a bad run...
I think this only shows that season ticket numbers are dreadful compared to prior years, although I'm sure A block in the east has more or less sold out
I would be staggered if we have sold more than 3000
No moans from me as I haven't and am unlikely to renew next season, 29 years wasn't a bad run...
No way will it be that low - there are 400 five-year STs for a start. I'd be surprised if it's under 5,000 at this stage and I think it's hard to see the eventual total being under 7,500 even if we go down.
Fook me. Have I got this wrong ? Are all these complaints, because the club have extended their generous offer by a further 19 days ?
If so, 19 days isn't really a big deal is it ?
Are people really up shit street, because they could have kept their money for a further 19 days ?
I think I must have misunderstood.
PS KHA if you think loyalty is being penalised (which it it slightly) you want to be a 5 yr VIP. I'm well out of pocket.
The five year season ticket holders have been completely shafted, however, had the club been promoted to the Premier League they would have been in pocket so it was a different type of gamble.
I agree that 19 days is not a significant period of time, but to text me three times warning me that I would lose the early purchase discount on the 9th only to extend it is, without question, dishonest. It's not what I expect from any business that has any kind of integrity, and does irreparable damage to the current owners reputation. We will, never, be able to trust anything they say again and it was so easily avoidable.
I believed what RD said when he told us we are not a feeder club. Now I can't believe him and that puts them under more pressure if/when they come out in the summer to answer for themselves.
If it's only 19 days why didn't the club extend it to all fans?
It's just muddled thinking and indecision rather than an attempt to cheat people. Kensell seems very keen to portray everything as his decision - something you would never have seen under previous regimes, where all such decisions were always attributed to the board and actually were made at that level. I guess that's ego, but it's inconceivable he wouldn't have to get agreement from KM and the personalisation may backfire on him. Either way, I doubt RD concerns himself with season-ticket deadlines.
That must be why I have no idea who came up with concept of Football For A Fiver.
There was some fan consultation but unfortunately the exercise did not go far enough... The proposed movement of the family area was removed from the four major changes proposed at an early stage. Unfortunately the club declined to listen to the fans forum / Trust representatives re the front six rows of the north upper and only changed their minds on the day of the launch as complaints and lobbying emails came in. You could say better late than never (which I did at the time) but this issue overshadowed both the launch of the new cross bars deal and the large discounts at the sides of the East and West. I think this season has been a very tough marketing challenge with new ownership and the club dicing with relegation but we are climbing out now. Retaining the best players and signing some decent replacements over the summer can only help market more season tickets in the build up to next season. The club might consider getting fans groups back on board to help promote this new era - the cessation of relations is really quite strange when the club is in the business of selling to a loyal fan base with over 50% coming to the Valley since before 1985!
And underlying all this we have cheaper seats and a team winning every other game - what's not to like?!
People are moaning because the prices haven't gone up
Un-freekin' believable
Why do so many people hate the club quite so much ? If I hated anything to the same extent I wouldn't do it
So you don't think that there's a principle at stake? Someone consistently prodding you and telling you to do something by a certain time or the conditions will change. All the while the prodder knows that this isn't true and announces once you've done it that you needn't have done it after all.
People are moaning because the prices haven't gone up
Un-freekin' believable
Why do so many people hate the club quite so much ? If I hated anything to the same extent I wouldn't do it
So you don't think that there's a principle at stake? Someone consistently prodding you and telling you to do something by a certain time or the conditions will change. All the while the prodder knows that this isn't true and announces once you've done it that you needn't have done it after all.
Did the person being prodded have to give up their £xxx for their season ticket though?
People are moaning because the prices haven't gone up
Un-freekin' believable
Why do so many people hate the club quite so much ? If I hated anything to the same extent I wouldn't do it
So you don't think that there's a principle at stake? Someone consistently prodding you and telling you to do something by a certain time or the conditions will change. All the while the prodder knows that this isn't true and announces once you've done it that you needn't have done it after all.
Did the person being prodded have to give up their £xxx for their season ticket though?
No, they had a choice.
Yes, they had a choice and that is the problem
Next season they will also have a choice and when another "offer" or "deadline" is given it won't be believed. Those people may make the choice not to renew. Kings Hills Addick has already said that his choice is to withhold some of his disposable income that might have spent on Charlton.
Fook me. Have I got this wrong ? Are all these complaints, because the club have extended their generous offer by a further 19 days ?
If so, 19 days isn't really a big deal is it ?
Are people really up shit street, because they could have kept their money for a further 19 days ?
I think I must have misunderstood.
PS KHA if you think loyalty is being penalised (which it it slightly) you want to be a 5 yr VIP. I'm well out of pocket.
The five year season ticket holders have been completely shafted, however, had the club been promoted to the Premier League they would have been in pocket so it was a different type of gamble.
I agree that 19 days is not a significant period of time, but to text me three times warning me that I would lose the early purchase discount on the 9th only to extend it is, without question, dishonest. It's not what I expect from any business that has any kind of integrity, and does irreparable damage to the current owners reputation. We will, never, be able to trust anything they say again and it was so easily avoidable.
I believed what RD said when he told us we are not a feeder club. Now I can't believe him and that puts them under more pressure if/when they come out in the summer to answer for themselves.
If it's only 19 days why didn't the club extend it to all fans?
It's just muddled thinking and indecision rather than an attempt to cheat people. Kensell seems very keen to portray everything as his decision - something you would never have seen under previous regimes, where all such decisions were always attributed to the board and actually were made at that level. I guess that's ego, but it's inconceivable he wouldn't have to get agreement from KM and the personalisation may backfire on him. Either way, I doubt RD concerns himself with season-ticket deadlines.
That must be why I have no idea who came up with concept of Football For A Fiver.
Fair point to some extent, but 1) the sums involved in Football for a Fiver and other individual matchday initiatives are trivial next to the season-ticket strategy and 2) you won't find any example of me - or for that matter Peter Varney or Steve Kavanagh - using the first person singular around deciding any ticket initiative. They were all referred to the board and they were always described as the club's or the board's decisions, whoever was behind the idea, because ultimately that is what they were, if only because the board could have blocked them. There's a significant distinction between the idea and the decision. Football for a Fiver was my idea. It wasn't my decision.
'Wednesday is the final day for supporters to secure their spot in SE7 next season at the best rate possible.'
What is disingenuous about this statement? All it means is that 'this the best price you will get, but after Wednesday there are no guarantees that it will stay the same'.
Our situation hasn't changed, so they obviously thought a price rise isn't warranted at this time - and the price has stayed the same. Use your common sense... of course the club would play it by ear after the deadline, basing prices on remaining tickets, the likelihood of relegation etc. They would be stupid not to.
'Wednesday is the final day for supporters to secure their spot in SE7 next season at the best rate possible.'
What is disingenuous about this statement? All it means is that 'this the best price you will get, but after Wednesday there are no guarantees that it will stay the same'.
Our situation hasn't changed, so they obviously thought a price rise isn't warranted at this time - and the price has stayed the same. Use your common sense... of course the club would play it by ear after the deadline, basing prices on remaining tickets, the likelihood of relegation etc. They would be stupid not to.
That's your take on it, but if you read the actual phrase itself, it's a lie. Wednesday was not the final day for supporters to secure their season ticket at the best rate, that best rate has stayed Thursday, Friday etc. etc.
It doesn't affect me as I am a 5 year ST holder, but forking out a few hundred quid earlier than you could have because of what is essentially false advertising will cause people problems, pay days aren't every day for most people. Not everyone, a small minority, but it's unfair on those people
This entire season ticket process has been 'overengineered', beginning with the complexity of the pricing (eg. five different price bands in the single-tier East Stand) and ending with this.
They didn't need to use terms like 'early bird' - they should have just marketed the prices as fixed until Apr 9th after which point they might go up, go down or stay the same.
Fans could then have made a rational decision based upon their likelihood of renewing (regardless of the league we are in), their desire for 'certainty' (of price), our form between publication and Apr 9th, their view on the 'value' implied by the prices etc.
I find this all a bit weird really: the "club haven't put up prices I feel cheated outrage" is somehow a bit odd and out of place. If DFS extend their sale for another few weeks (again) do we all get huffy and refuse to buy a sofa from them? It's all pretty trivial in the overall scheme of things.
This entire season ticket process has been 'overengineered', beginning with the complexity of the pricing (eg. five different price bands in the single-tier East Stand) and ending with this.
They didn't need to use terms like 'early bird' - they should have just marketed the prices as fixed until Apr 9th after which point they might go up, go down or stay the same.
Fans could then have made a rational decision based upon their likelihood of renewing (regardless of the league we are in), their desire for 'certainty' (of price), our form between publication and Apr 9th, their view on the 'value' implied by the prices etc.
Exactly. Keeping the prices the same if we go down, up £25 if we stay up isn't the problem, it's that what they said was at best misleading.
If I buy a ticket for £400 at 'the best possible rate' and somebody else buys it for the same price, it remains the best possible rate.
#Factoid
Quite so but that isn't what the club said, hence the problem. They said that the deadline was the "last possible day to secure the best price" when it turned out, as many others have already pointed out, it wasn't.
The damage isn't to sales as that will be driven largely by performances on the pitch and in the transfer market plus other personal circumstances IMO.
The damage is to the credibility of our commercial team. Having cried "wolf" no one will take them seriously next time.
My view is that they should either have extended the deadline a week or so before April 9th or made a token price increase.
The word 'final' in the club statement is a clue to everything. If we could get the early bird rate in early May it would've been through another pay/pension day, and allowed a bit more time to economise, plan, and save up, and develop a credible excuse for the partner when we tell them we're spending family budget on more football. What credibility is there in what the club say if they chop and change regarding such a fundamental issue?
The word 'final' in the club statement is a clue to everything. If we could get the early bird rate in early May it would've been through another pay/pension day, and allowed a bit more time to economise, plan, and save up, and develop a credible excuse for the partner when we tell them we're spending family budget on more football. What credibility is there in what the club say if they chop and change regarding such a fundamental issue?
No credibility whatsoever - best boycott and don't, whatever you do, buy a shirt or programme next season as per KHA's epic statement of intent.
Comments
They gave a deadline for the current prices, and looked to review the price at this point with our leage status in mind. As we may still get relegated they have kept the prices the same. If we had our Championship status confirmed for next season then they probably would have bumped the prices up a tad.
Some people are making a mountain out of a mole hill again.
But it doesn’t wash does it.
2014/15 season ticket prices and the April 9th ‘deadline’ were announced on March 7th. At that point we were 22nd - in the relegation zone – and had been since January, before things briefly got worse (due to cup games, cancelled games etc) and we slipped to 24th.
We returned to 22nd after the Millwall draw, before ‘climbing’ to 21st – just outside the relegation zone – following the Bournemouth game, where we have been stuck ever since.
So “what division the club will be in” next season has been ‘uncertain’ throughout the period from March 7th to April 9th – and probably more so just before April 9th (when our games in hand were reducing and our goal difference worsening) yet fans were bombarded with texts and emails stressing it was the ‘deadline’ to buy at the ‘early bird’ prices.
So for Ben Kensell to now say that “it is only right that [fans] are certain what division the club will be in before the deadline is imposed” does rather add a touch of insult to injury to those fans who may have stretched themselves financially to meet the April 9th ‘deadline’ – why wasn’t it ‘only right’ before then - our league status was uncertain both before and afterwards?
No one is complaining that they haven't saved any money. It is the way it has been mishandled that some people don't like.
I think it's fair to assume that if Wednesday is the last day to get the best rate possible Thursday is too late to get the best rate possible. Thus by Thursday a different rate must apply. Technically, if the prices had gone up by 1p then the statement wouldn't have been a lie, it would have been misleading, but not a lie. The fact that the rate was exactly the same after the 9th, which was the day they published the lie, leaves the club no defense, at all, at the accusation that it lied to its most loyal customers.
The biggest problem with this is that it sets a precedent. We now have to assume that the club have no qualms about lying to fans if it suits them. I know this sounds a little dramatic, but on the basis that this was easily avoided by extending the deadline to the 19th May back in March it smacks of a total lack of respect, and it will be years before I believe any PR about season ticket sales in the future. Should enough people take the same approach I have they will struggle to sell any tickets early again. This will compound the problem as they will feel even less able to increase the price if they sell thousands fewer tickets early next season.
I suspect that in the absence of Airman Brown, and some others, that used to be involved with the season ticket prices, they have been making ti up as they go along - clearly without the benefit of input by fans. If we are relegated are they going to slash the prices? If so re those that renewed early going to be given a refund? It wouldn't surprise me!
I acknowledge that I am making a bit of a mountain out of a mole hill, but the club rely on our support at games, they rely on our financial support through buying tickets as well as other stiff, I just think that this is a terrible way to do business. I'm not exaggerating when I say that if this was any other organisation I would refuse to deal with them again and even though it's childish I will probably look for a way to with hold some money from the club as a result. I might pass on a cup game, I might not buy a shirt next season. It doesn't really matter, it will make me feel better and it will cost the club something - I seriously doubt that they will make any more money in total than they would if they'd either raised the prices from today, or advised us they weren't going to a month ago.
What's worse is that Ben, what's his name, must be a thick as s**t to not have realised how much of a mistake this course of action was. It frightens me that he has a position making decisions for the club when he can make such a fundamental mistake!
Un-freekin' believable
Why do so many people hate the club quite so much ? If I hated anything to the same extent I wouldn't do it
So I feel let down by the club and feel that they have not been transparent.
They are moaning because they consider that they have been misled.
There is a difference.
(Why did i bite?)
Allegedly :-)
I would be staggered if we have sold more than 3000
No moans from me as I haven't and am unlikely to renew next season, 29 years wasn't a bad run...
Unfortunately the club declined to listen to the fans forum / Trust representatives re the front six rows of the north upper and only changed their minds on the day of the launch as complaints and lobbying emails came in. You could say better late than never (which I did at the time) but this issue overshadowed both the launch of the new cross bars deal and the large discounts at the sides of the East and West.
I think this season has been a very tough marketing challenge with new ownership and the club dicing with relegation but we are climbing out now.
Retaining the best players and signing some decent replacements over the summer can only help market more season tickets in the build up to next season.
The club might consider getting fans groups back on board to help promote this new era - the cessation of relations is really quite strange when the club is in the business of selling to a loyal fan base with over 50% coming to the Valley since before 1985!
And underlying all this we have cheaper seats and a team winning every other game - what's not to like?!
No, they had a choice.
Yes, they had a choice and that is the problem
Next season they will also have a choice and when another "offer" or "deadline" is given it won't be believed. Those people may make the choice not to renew. Kings Hills Addick has already said that his choice is to withhold some of his disposable income that might have spent on Charlton.
What is disingenuous about this statement? All it means is that 'this the best price you will get, but after Wednesday there are no guarantees that it will stay the same'.
Our situation hasn't changed, so they obviously thought a price rise isn't warranted at this time - and the price has stayed the same. Use your common sense... of course the club would play it by ear after the deadline, basing prices on remaining tickets, the likelihood of relegation etc. They would be stupid not to.
It doesn't affect me as I am a 5 year ST holder, but forking out a few hundred quid earlier than you could have because of what is essentially false advertising will cause people problems, pay days aren't every day for most people. Not everyone, a small minority, but it's unfair on those people
#Factoid
They didn't need to use terms like 'early bird' - they should have just marketed the prices as fixed until Apr 9th after which point they might go up, go down or stay the same.
Fans could then have made a rational decision based upon their likelihood of renewing (regardless of the league we are in), their desire for 'certainty' (of price), our form between publication and Apr 9th, their view on the 'value' implied by the prices etc.
If DFS extend their sale for another few weeks (again) do we all get huffy and refuse to buy a sofa from them?
It's all pretty trivial in the overall scheme of things.
The damage isn't to sales as that will be driven largely by performances on the pitch and in the transfer market plus other personal circumstances IMO.
The damage is to the credibility of our commercial team. Having cried "wolf" no one will take them seriously next time.
My view is that they should either have extended the deadline a week or so before April 9th or made a token price increase.
What credibility is there in what the club say if they chop and change regarding such a fundamental issue?