I don't think anyone has ever won both the Golden Boot and the Golden Ball at the same tournament. There's no point in giving the two awards to the same player.
Personally I think he has peaked. I think that he and Ronaldo will both retire at about the same time despite the fact that Ronaldo is a couple years older. The amount of stuff that was pumped into Messi in a long age will probably effect the longevity of his career.
If there's one player who's still humble it's Messi. Well liked by most at Barca, doesn't treat people like a spoilt brat such as Ronaldo. He didn't ask the for the award.
As for Messi maybe he has peaked, but he's the object of the media disease. If you play in tight one paced team, then there's little space for you. Listen to Hansen et al. Ibrahimovic isn't a big game player: playing for second class teams, then he plays for PSG he's wonderful! Suarez'll not a twenty goal a season man... oh Rodgers plays with pace Suarez is unplayable... Messi is brilliant for one of the best club sides ever, he's not the greatest in a good one dimensional team.
Big fan of Messi which compounds my disappointment that he did not perform at the levels that he is capable of in this tournament. Was hoping he would detroy this final but he was but a whimper of his former self.
Commentators kept referring to him as the world's best - in the last minute of extra time he had a free kick in a good area and I was thinking now's the time to prove you're the best and then he goes and launches it into row Z Danny Green style nuff said
I don't know, but suspect Messi would be a little disapointed with his world cup performances. If that is the case, he probably won't really welcome that trophy. If there is a trophy for best player in the world he wins that hands down in my book - but as others have said- quite a few names ahead of him in this tournament. WHo actually voted for him?
Commentators kept referring to him as the world's best - in the last minute of extra time he had a free kick in a good area and I was thinking now's the time to prove you're the best and then he goes and launches it into row Z Danny Green style nuff said
Someone print this off and send it to Green. Being compared to Messi would be the highlight of his career.
As for Messi maybe he has peaked, but he's the object of the media disease. If you play in tight one paced team, then there's little space for you. Listen to Hansen et al. Ibrahimovic isn't a big game player: playing for second class teams, then he plays for PSG he's wonderful! Suarez'll not a twenty goal a season man... oh Rodgers plays with pace Suarez is unplayable... Messi is brilliant for one of the best club sides ever, he's not the greatest in a good one dimensional team.
So Ajax, Juve, Inter and Milan are all second class teams and Ibra had nothing to do with each of those clubs winning their domestic titles practically every season he was at them? People aren't saying he's wonderful because he's at PSG, he has always been hugely respected on the continent and after his hattrick against England the media finally awoke to his quality - the masses then followed like sheep.
You're also talking down Messi's class by saying he's surrounded by one of the greatest sides ever. Likewise someone playing at a lesser club does not make them a lesser player, otherwise you're judging someone by the team they play in rather than their own quality.
Ronaldo has of course played for Manchester United but no where near the heights playing for Real Madrid... (Same with Messi's extraordinary record for Barcelona), at the end of this World Cup where neither player has set the world alight you do have wonder at the strength of La Liga
i.e. People say its the best in the world but apart from a handful of teams it really isn't that great (Competitiveness for sure as thats something the Premier League will always have)
Messi is the greatest player in Barcelona history - a club that has employed the likes of Maradona, Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, Cruyff, Xavi among others.
That for me is a much more telling indicator of Messi's place in the history books than what he does at international level.
Thing is Messi is scoring bundles against the likes of Levante and Grenada, and has only played in Spain. The guy is a ridiculous talent and one of the best players ever, BUT he has been part of one of the greatest club sides in history, and hasn't done it in different styles of football, like Maradonna did in Spain, Italy and international level.
Messi is the greatest player in Barcelona history - a club that has employed the likes of Maradona, Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, Cruyff, Xavi among others.
That for me is a much more telling indicator of Messi's place in the history books than what he does at international level.
Thing is Messi is scoring bundles against the likes of Levante and Grenada, and has only played in Spain. The guy is a ridiculous talent and one of the best players ever, BUT he has been part of one of the greatest club sides in history, and hasn't done it in different styles of football, like Maradonna did in Spain, Italy and international level.
You're right on those points - but then again I'd say that Messi's goals are very much a big part of the reason behind why Barcelona in recent years have been one of the greatest teams in history. I can't realistically think of any other player who would be able to score the sheer volume of goals that he does if plugged into his position.
Though I've been a culprit of it myself, I don't really understand why everyone is obsessed with categorizing Messi, Maradona, Pele etc. So lets say he scored a hat trick last night - that then puts him in the elite level. So what?
Messi is big enough of a talent that he should be considered one of the elite in his own right. Unfortunately for him he was born in Argentina so bizarrely is constantly compared to someone else in Argentina who made his name about 30 years ago.
Messi is Messi - shouldn't be "Messi, but wasn't quite Maradona".
Messi is the greatest player in Barcelona history - a club that has employed the likes of Maradona, Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, Cruyff, Xavi among others.
That for me is a much more telling indicator of Messi's place in the history books than what he does at international level.
Thing is Messi is scoring bundles against the likes of Levante and Grenada, and has only played in Spain. The guy is a ridiculous talent and one of the best players ever, BUT he has been part of one of the greatest club sides in history, and hasn't done it in different styles of football, like Maradonna did in Spain, Italy and international level.
You're right on those points - but then again I'd say that Messi's goals are very much a big part of the reason behind why Barcelona in recent years have been one of the greatest teams in history. I can't realistically think of any other player who would be able to score the sheer volume of goals that he does if plugged into his position.
Seriously? You can't think of another player that would score a huge volume of goals with peak-form Xavi/Iniesta/Busquets behind him?
The midfield were the reason that Barcelona were successful. Not Messi. The high pressuring, fast triangles and domination of possession in the middle.
'Player of the tournament' - sponsored by Adidas so obv had to be a bloke in adidas kit and who was gonna be in the stadium. Golden Boot boy James Hernandez notable by his absence. There should never be any surprise that a Blatter/FIFA decision is a) wrong and b) commercially driven
Neuer was excellent no doubt but he was underutilised compared to USA's Howard or Mexico's Ochoa - no sleep lost by either of them I'd warrant
Messi is the greatest player in Barcelona history - a club that has employed the likes of Maradona, Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, Cruyff, Xavi among others.
That for me is a much more telling indicator of Messi's place in the history books than what he does at international level.
Thing is Messi is scoring bundles against the likes of Levante and Grenada, and has only played in Spain. The guy is a ridiculous talent and one of the best players ever, BUT he has been part of one of the greatest club sides in history, and hasn't done it in different styles of football, like Maradonna did in Spain, Italy and international level.
You're right on those points - but then again I'd say that Messi's goals are very much a big part of the reason behind why Barcelona in recent years have been one of the greatest teams in history. I can't realistically think of any other player who would be able to score the sheer volume of goals that he does if plugged into his position.
Seriously? You can't think of another player that would score a huge volume of goals with peak-form Xavi/Iniesta/Busquets behind him?
The midfield were the reason that Barcelona were successful. Not Messi. The high pressuring, fast triangles and domination of possession in the middle.
The man is the greatest goalscorer in the history of Barcelona, at the age of 26. Yes there are strikers who would score a hatful with those players behind him, but I still don't think they would score as many as Messi.
Last season was the first time since 2010 that he didn't manage to score 50 goals or more in all competitions at club level (he got 41 in 46 games whilst being injured for most of that). It was also the first time in three years that he managed to produce less goals than appearances. World Cup or no World Cup - he is still one of the greatest of all time.
Tell me who could be put in that number 10 role and score as many as him?
Alright, I give up. I will not argue over it any further than this one post.
I didn't say Messi fully deserved the award. I agree he was not the best player of this tournament. I also agree there were a few who played better than him overall. But you have to remember that he was always covered by two or more players in most of the games. The decision to award him the Golden Ball didn't struck me as odd as it did most of you. Like ColinTat said, he didn't ask for it. FIFA gave it to him, more like a consolation prize. I don't see any conspiracy behind it. He has been one of the greatest (and perhaps THE greatest) players in the world for the past decade and his national team made it to the final in this tournament. If it was not for his performances in the early stage, Argentina would not have gone through all the way to the final. To say he was acting like a brat is simply ridiculous. What would you do if you were in his shoes? To fake a smile for the camera? It was not a one-sided game and he just lost probably the best chance in his life to win the World Cup for god's sake. Anyone would feel absolutely hurt and frustrated. I don't think there's anything wrong with his reaction, or lack of it.
I'm not strictly a fan of Messi. I just know he's a fairly decent person and over the years I've never heard anything particularly bad about him, which is pretty unbelievable considering how much pressure and public attention he's been surrounded with. I feel sorry that his world cup journey has to end this way (he had been exhausted even before yesterday and he was seen throwing up during the game). FIFA may have made a controversial decision but it's not fair to direct the hate/anger towards Messi himself.
Alright, I give up. I will not argue over it any further than this one post.
I didn't say Messi fully deserved the award. I agree he was not the best player of this tournament. I also agree there were a few who played better than him overall. But you have to remember that he was always covered by two or more players in most of the games. The decision to award him the Golden Ball didn't struck me as odd as it did most of you. Like ColinTat said, he didn't ask for it. FIFA gave it to him, more like a consolation prize. I don't see any conspiracy behind it. He has been one of the greatest (and perhaps THE greatest) players in the world for the past decade and his national team made it to the final in this tournament. If it was not for his performances in the early stage, Argentina would not have gone through all the way to the final. To say he was acting like a brat is simply ridiculous. What would you do if you were in his shoes? To fake a smile for the camera? It was not a one-sided game and he just lost probably the best chance in his life to win the World Cup for god's sake. Anyone would feel absolutely hurt and frustrated. I don't think there's anything wrong with his reaction, or lack of it.
I'm not strictly a fan of Messi. I just know he's a fairly decent person and over the years I've never heard anything particularly bad about him, which is pretty unbelievable considering how much pressure and public attention he's been surrounded with. I feel sorry that his world cup journey has to end this way (he had been exhausted even before yesterday and he was seen throwing up during the game). FIFA may have made a controversial decision but it's not fair to direct the hate/anger towards Messi himself.
Forget the end, his behaviour during managers team talk at full time was disgraceful, look it up, he actually walked away from his team talk. Course he's footballs darling so it won't be highlighted everywhere like it would have if Ronaldo had done same.
Think this is just the English way of doing everything possible to hammer someone when they have shown a slight weakness (in this case, Messi not supposedly becoming the best player of all time for losing one match).
Overnight he is "disgraceful", "undeserving" and a "spoiled brat".
We're a weird country when it comes to things like this.
Think this is just the English way of doing everything possible to hammer someone when they have shown a slight weakness (in this case, Messi not supposedly becoming the best player of all time for losing one match).
Overnight he is "disgraceful", "undeserving" and a "spoiled brat".
We're a weird country when it comes to things like this.
No we are not you just don't live in all the others and speak their languages Tom...
A joke. And, he was like a spoiled brat at the end. What an ego. My opinion of him went way down after that. All that fame goes straight to their heads doesn't it.
Absolute tripe. In what way was he acting like a spoilt brat?
If the fame had gone to his head then he would have been lauding up that award, which couldn't be further from what actually happened.
Don't agree. His whole attitude and body language at the end of that game reminded me of a petulant child. He was captain of Argentina and just failed to win the World Cup. Most people would give their right bollick to have the chance of that.
Agreed he was obviously upset and disappointed at having lost but after the initial disappointment he should have been bigger than that and been magnanimous in defeat. Instead he carried on his petulant behavior for all the world to see.
My opinion of him has just gone down a few notches. I had thought he was bigger than that but obviously not.
Nobody stood out in the tournament. If there was a best goal award it was between Rodriguez and Cahill. (almost throws up lauding an ex-spanner) Rodriguez had 2 pens, so his 4 outfield goals was equaled by Messi. I enjoyed watching Messi. There was nothing in the tournament to compare with a few of his runs. I can agree that he should have done more, but Argentina weren't set up to play to his strengths, ie pressing high. Would be interesting to see stats for yards covered over the past 5 years, but it did look like he had fitness issues. And he got to the final, which probably swung it for him. If Muller or Kroos scored in the final, they probably would (should) have won it.
A joke. And, he was like a spoiled brat at the end. What an ego. My opinion of him went way down after that. All that fame goes straight to their heads doesn't it.
Absolute tripe. In what way was he acting like a spoilt brat?
If the fame had gone to his head then he would have been lauding up that award, which couldn't be further from what actually happened.
Don't agree. His whole attitude and body language at the end of that game reminded me of a petulant child. He was captain of Argentina and just failed to win the World Cup. Most people would give their right bollick to have the chance of that.
Agreed he was obviously upset and disappointed at having lost but after the initial disappointment he should have been bigger than that and been magnanimous in defeat. Instead he carried on his petulant behavior for all the world to see.
My opinion of him has just gone down a few notches. I had thought he was bigger than that but obviously not.
So what did you want from him? Smiles and waves?
It is probably the ultimate low point of his career with the emotion of feeling that he let millions and millions of people down. He shook hands with the victors, quietly did the formalities but wanted the ground to swallow him up - can't believe that is being held against him!
Nobody stood out in the tournament. If there was a best goal award it was between Rodriguez and Cahill. (almost throws up lauding an ex-spanner) Rodriguez had 2 pens, so his 4 outfield goals was equaled by Messi. I enjoyed watching Messi. There was nothing in the tournament to compare with a few of his runs. I can agree that he should have done more, but Argentina weren't set up to play to his strengths, ie pressing high. Would be interesting to see stats for yards covered over the past 5 years, but it did look like he had fitness issues. And he got to the final, which probably swung it for him. If Muller or Kroos scored in the final, they probably would (should) have won it.
He only scored 1 pen to be fair. Embarrassing decision Messi getting it, Rodriguez for me.
A joke. And, he was like a spoiled brat at the end. What an ego. My opinion of him went way down after that. All that fame goes straight to their heads doesn't it.
Absolute tripe. In what way was he acting like a spoilt brat?
If the fame had gone to his head then he would have been lauding up that award, which couldn't be further from what actually happened.
Don't agree. His whole attitude and body language at the end of that game reminded me of a petulant child. He was captain of Argentina and just failed to win the World Cup. Most people would give their right bollick to have the chance of that.
Agreed he was obviously upset and disappointed at having lost but after the initial disappointment he should have been bigger than that and been magnanimous in defeat. Instead he carried on his petulant behavior for all the world to see.
My opinion of him has just gone down a few notches. I had thought he was bigger than that but obviously not.
So what did you want from him? Smiles and waves?
It is probably the ultimate low point of his career with the emotion of feeling that he let millions and millions of people down. He shook hands with the victors, quietly did the formalities but wanted the ground to swallow him up - can't believe that is being held against him!
Exactly, even a player as good as Messi isn't going to get that many chances to win the World Cup, even with luck on your side. Frankly he would probably have been happier if everyone had just focussed on the victors instead of being dragged back onto the centre stage when frankly no-one would be blamed for wanting to be left alone.
Nobody stood out in the tournament. If there was a best goal award it was between Rodriguez and Cahill. (almost throws up lauding an ex-spanner) Rodriguez had 2 pens, so his 4 outfield goals was equaled by Messi. I enjoyed watching Messi. There was nothing in the tournament to compare with a few of his runs. I can agree that he should have done more, but Argentina weren't set up to play to his strengths, ie pressing high. Would be interesting to see stats for yards covered over the past 5 years, but it did look like he had fitness issues. And he got to the final, which probably swung it for him. If Muller or Kroos scored in the final, they probably would (should) have won it.
6 goals in 4 & half games plus 2 assists!!!! Messi played in 7 including 3 which had an a extra 30 minutes and was only subbed in 1 of them, as far as this world cup goes, Rodriguez was streets ahead and it's just a shame Brazil kicked him to pieces and got away with it otherwise we would have had a competitive semi final.
A joke. And, he was like a spoiled brat at the end. What an ego. My opinion of him went way down after that. All that fame goes straight to their heads doesn't it.
Absolute tripe. In what way was he acting like a spoilt brat?
If the fame had gone to his head then he would have been lauding up that award, which couldn't be further from what actually happened.
Don't agree. His whole attitude and body language at the end of that game reminded me of a petulant child. He was captain of Argentina and just failed to win the World Cup. Most people would give their right bollick to have the chance of that.
Agreed he was obviously upset and disappointed at having lost but after the initial disappointment he should have been bigger than that and been magnanimous in defeat. Instead he carried on his petulant behavior for all the world to see.
My opinion of him has just gone down a few notches. I had thought he was bigger than that but obviously not.
So what did you want from him? Smiles and waves?
It is probably the ultimate low point of his career with the emotion of feeling that he let millions and millions of people down. He shook hands with the victors, quietly did the formalities but wanted the ground to swallow him up - can't believe that is being held against him!
Comments
Personally I think he has peaked. I think that he and Ronaldo will both retire at about the same time despite the fact that Ronaldo is a couple years older. The amount of stuff that was pumped into Messi in a long age will probably effect the longevity of his career.
Reza.
As for Messi maybe he has peaked, but he's the object of the media disease. If you play in tight one paced team, then there's little space for you. Listen to Hansen et al. Ibrahimovic isn't a big game player: playing for second class teams, then he plays for PSG he's wonderful! Suarez'll not a twenty goal a season man... oh Rodgers plays with pace Suarez is unplayable... Messi is brilliant for one of the best club sides ever, he's not the greatest in a good one dimensional team.
You're also talking down Messi's class by saying he's surrounded by one of the greatest sides ever. Likewise someone playing at a lesser club does not make them a lesser player, otherwise you're judging someone by the team they play in rather than their own quality.
And listen to Hansen? lol
That for me is a much more telling indicator of Messi's place in the history books than what he does at international level.
i.e. People say its the best in the world but apart from a handful of teams it really isn't that great (Competitiveness for sure as thats something the Premier League will always have)
Though I've been a culprit of it myself, I don't really understand why everyone is obsessed with categorizing Messi, Maradona, Pele etc. So lets say he scored a hat trick last night - that then puts him in the elite level. So what?
Messi is big enough of a talent that he should be considered one of the elite in his own right. Unfortunately for him he was born in Argentina so bizarrely is constantly compared to someone else in Argentina who made his name about 30 years ago.
Messi is Messi - shouldn't be "Messi, but wasn't quite Maradona".
The midfield were the reason that Barcelona were successful. Not Messi. The high pressuring, fast triangles and domination of possession in the middle.
Neuer was excellent no doubt but he was underutilised compared to USA's Howard or Mexico's Ochoa - no sleep lost by either of them I'd warrant
Last season was the first time since 2010 that he didn't manage to score 50 goals or more in all competitions at club level (he got 41 in 46 games whilst being injured for most of that). It was also the first time in three years that he managed to produce less goals than appearances. World Cup or no World Cup - he is still one of the greatest of all time.
Tell me who could be put in that number 10 role and score as many as him?
I didn't say Messi fully deserved the award. I agree he was not the best player of this tournament. I also agree there were a few who played better than him overall. But you have to remember that he was always covered by two or more players in most of the games. The decision to award him the Golden Ball didn't struck me as odd as it did most of you. Like ColinTat said, he didn't ask for it. FIFA gave it to him, more like a consolation prize. I don't see any conspiracy behind it. He has been one of the greatest (and perhaps THE greatest) players in the world for the past decade and his national team made it to the final in this tournament. If it was not for his performances in the early stage, Argentina would not have gone through all the way to the final. To say he was acting like a brat is simply ridiculous. What would you do if you were in his shoes? To fake a smile for the camera? It was not a one-sided game and he just lost probably the best chance in his life to win the World Cup for god's sake. Anyone would feel absolutely hurt and frustrated. I don't think there's anything wrong with his reaction, or lack of it.
I'm not strictly a fan of Messi. I just know he's a fairly decent person and over the years I've never heard anything particularly bad about him, which is pretty unbelievable considering how much pressure and public attention he's been surrounded with. I feel sorry that his world cup journey has to end this way (he had been exhausted even before yesterday and he was seen throwing up during the game). FIFA may have made a controversial decision but it's not fair to direct the hate/anger towards Messi himself.
Forget the end, his behaviour during managers team talk at full time was disgraceful, look it up, he actually walked away from his team talk.
Course he's footballs darling so it won't be highlighted everywhere like it would have if Ronaldo had done same.
Overnight he is "disgraceful", "undeserving" and a "spoiled brat".
We're a weird country when it comes to things like this.
Agreed he was obviously upset and disappointed at having lost but after the initial disappointment he should have been bigger than that and been magnanimous in defeat. Instead he carried on his petulant behavior for all the world to see.
My opinion of him has just gone down a few notches. I had thought he was bigger than that but obviously not.
If there was a best goal award it was between Rodriguez and Cahill. (almost throws up lauding an ex-spanner)
Rodriguez had 2 pens, so his 4 outfield goals was equaled by Messi.
I enjoyed watching Messi. There was nothing in the tournament to compare with a few of his runs. I can agree that he should have done more, but Argentina weren't set up to play to his strengths, ie pressing high.
Would be interesting to see stats for yards covered over the past 5 years, but it did look like he had fitness issues.
And he got to the final, which probably swung it for him. If Muller or Kroos scored in the final, they probably would (should) have won it.
It is probably the ultimate low point of his career with the emotion of feeling that he let millions and millions of people down. He shook hands with the victors, quietly did the formalities but wanted the ground to swallow him up - can't believe that is being held against him!
But hey not an issue as any plaudit from two totally discredited governing bodies ain't worth two bob.