Wow. Some of you need to have a word with yourself. Criticising a disabled guy for using a parent and child space when some arsehole has parked in the disabled bay that he is entitled to and is definitely more advantageous than a parent and baby space.
Please tell me where this disabled person should park instead? A normal bay? I'm pretty sure that is a lot more unreasonable than asking tarquin and his mummy to park a few metres further away in a normal space.
If I can't park in a disabled bay because able bodied lazy people park there, I then park in a parent and child space because my mobility is poor hence the blue badge. If that qualifies me for knob head status? Then I must mine one
I'm guessing they have misread your post and are about to apologise. Just to clarify you are saying that when the disabled bays are used you park in a mother and child space?
If I can't park in a disabled bay because able bodied lazy people park there, I then park in a parent and child space because my mobility is poor hence the blue badge. If that qualifies me for knob head status? Then I must mine one
I'm guessing they have misread your post and are about to apologise. Just to clarify you are saying that when the disabled bays are used you park in a mother and child space?
A few comments: first I'm sure it's just a ploy by supermarkets to try to attract people who they perceive are likely to spend more. (I have discussed with a Supermarket manager that it is me they are putting off because it's more difficult to get my case(s) of champagne into the car while in the "parents & kids" space loads up their people carrier with their kids, 75p sliced loaves and tins of value baked beans.) Second, clearly, parking spaces in British supermarkets are poorly designed using architect specifications that I guess have not changed in decades, from a time when cars were much less wide than they are today. Third, why not adopt the common US concept of having angled bays so that everyone gets more room around their car? (It seems that you can park the same number of cars in 7% less space using angled parking - or, obviously, give people more space - I think this is because the roadway needs to be less wide. But hardly anywhere seems to do it.)
Here's some layout measurements: Standard
US
Now it's easy to say well, American cars are bigger and that's true but they're really not that much different these days. Clearly 2.5m for a parking bay when most UK cars are at least around 2m wide gives an insufficient gap for most people let alone people who may have mobility issues but don't qualify for a blue badge. The problem is exacerbated if you have a coupe as two-door cars have larger doors which "hit" next doors car before giving enough room to get out. Even the massively overcrowded Hong Kong has larger standard parking bay sizes than we do!
It's also of note that the gap needed for the roadway is 6m in these diagrams whereas for a one-way system car park using angled parking you can get away with 3m or 5.4m for two-way.
So, in summary, if supermarkets designed their car parks properly, they wouldn't need special parking spaces and we'd all be much happier.
If only:
Some excellent points about diagonal parking @cafcfan I didn't know about the width of the roadway but I had heard before that there's a time saving because everyone can get into and out of their space in one move every time. It may only save a few seconds for each vehicle but for car parks with hundreds of bays it adds up to quite a lot of extra space over the course of a day. I also heard that there are less accidents in car parks with a herringbone design. I presume that the reason there's no big clamour from the insurance companies for this design is because most parking accidents will be low speed bumps and scrapes that people won't claim on for fear of losing their no-claims bonus.
If I can't park in a disabled bay because able bodied lazy people park there, I then park in a parent and child space because my mobility is poor hence the blue badge. If that qualifies me for knob head status? Then I must mine one
I'm guessing they have misread your post and are about to apologise. Just to clarify you are saying that when the disabled bays are used you park in a mother and child space?
Yes that's correct
Your right to park in a special bay is protected in statute as I am sure you are well aware. The right of a mother to park in such a manner is not.
If I was in a parent and child bay with a child and saw a disabled person didn't have a bay I would unquestionably forefeit my space. To not do so is ridiculous.
Also I'm very wary of people who throw their toys out of their pram at the use of the word pikey and then effectively say that the someone with a disability who NEEDS a special parking space should be prioritised below someone who has one for CONVENIENCE.
Also if a disabled driver can't park too far away does than mean that if there are no spaces right outside the venue, they go home and/or shop somewhere else?
I ask because the description above suggests that it is not about convenience but an inability to walk far enough.
Also if a disabled driver can't park too far away does than mean that if there are no spaces right outside the venue, they go home and/or shop somewhere else?
I ask because the description above suggests that it is not about convenience but an inability to walk far enough.
People are given blue badges because of their inability to walk far enough in a lot of cases. They have a physical impairment that makes life a lot more difficult for them through no choice of their own. They are even allowed to park on single yellows because of this.
Mother and child spaces are there for commercial reasons. Disabled spaces are there for real reasons.
So if all the parent and child spaces are used by childless couples can Mum's park park in a disabled space?
Are we seriously comparing mothers and disabled people? Unbelievable.
Why not? Not all disabled are the same. Not all children are the same. The scale of neediness within each group will vary considerably and there will be significant overlaps.
Personally I'm not sure why we need separate spaces for 'Disabled' and 'Parent/Child'. Why not have a single area for people with needs for extra space. There may be economies of scale.
So if all the parent and child spaces are used by childless couples can Mum's park park in a disabled space?
Are we seriously comparing mothers and disabled people? Unbelievable.
Why not? Not all disabled are the same. Not all children are the same. The scale of neediness within each group will vary considerably and there will be significant overlaps.
Personally I'm not sure why we need separate spaces for 'Disabled' and 'Parent/Child'. Why not have a single area for people with needs for extra space. There may be economies of scale.
Although not dismissing your point, legally that couldn't happen. Disabled people have unshared parking spaces protected by statute I believe.
Despite how much some people clearly disagree with that, I think its probably for the best.
I must admit from a lot of these posts I have had a brilliant mental image in my head of a mother pushing a pram with her starbucks coffee sneering as a war veteran with no legs gets out of his car in a mother and child space into a wheelchair when all the disabled bays are taken.
Also if a disabled driver can't park too far away does than mean that if there are no spaces right outside the venue, they go home and/or shop somewhere else?
I ask because the description above suggests that it is not about convenience but an inability to walk far enough.
Yes they do go else where, they don't have a choice.
I don't go in asdas near me and only go in morrisons, why? Because asda there is never a parent and child space or a disabled bay. I refuse to carry a getting very heavy 5 year old kicking, punching and screaming half a mile to the shop just because I need some groceries.
Can't believe this has descended into a debate about where people think disabled people should park. In a private car park, wherever they want. In public car parks and public roads, pretty much wherever they want as long as they're not causing an obstruction and they obey the limitations of their blue badge (no longer than 3 hours on single/double yellow lines, nowhere where loading/unloading is prohibited and not on red lines). That is the law, not some kind of unwritten consensus. Think people might want to educate themselves before they start abusing a disabled people at a supermarket.
Also if a disabled driver can't park too far away does than mean that if there are no spaces right outside the venue, they go home and/or shop somewhere else?
I ask because the description above suggests that it is not about convenience but an inability to walk far enough.
Yes they do go else where, they don't have a choice.
I don't go in asdas near me and only go in morrisons, why? Because asda there is never a parent and child space or a disabled bay. I refuse to carry a getting very heavy 5 year old kicking, punching and screaming half a mile to the shop just because I need some groceries.
All that aggravation, surely then, and I choose the service as a random example, using Tesco's home delivery service (some slots only cost a £1 now) or click & collect would be by far the better option for you? I bet a £1 is not much different from the cost of the fuel for your car's trip to a supermarket.
Also if a disabled driver can't park too far away does than mean that if there are no spaces right outside the venue, they go home and/or shop somewhere else?
I ask because the description above suggests that it is not about convenience but an inability to walk far enough.
Yes they do go else where, they don't have a choice.
I don't go in asdas near me and only go in morrisons, why? Because asda there is never a parent and child space or a disabled bay. I refuse to carry a getting very heavy 5 year old kicking, punching and screaming half a mile to the shop just because I need some groceries.
Interesting you should mention Asda because on Kings Hill they have the disabled spaces at the front yet the parent/child spaces are in a separate car park that is not closer to the shop but has a walking route that avoids the rest of the shoppers and their cars and makes it easier and safer for them.
I was merely playing devils advocate in asking if the child/parent spaces are free to be used by disabled people if all their spaces are taken up because being a bit of a stickler for the rules I don't think that child/parent spaces are for anyone other than parents with children. If the shop (and I'm sure they do) have allocated the required number of spaces for disabled shoppers then they are, in my view, allowed to dictate that child/parent spaces are for parents with children (small children only if that is their choice).
If we are going to make it ok for disabled shoppers to park in parent/child spaces then it begs the question where is the line drawn. Are disabled cinema goes allowed to sit in the premium seats without paying the upgrade? Are they allowed to take a First Class seat on a train or an aeroplane if it is closer to the door than the seat they paid for? Are they allowed to park on a private drive with a blue badge? Are they allowed to park in such a way that it blocks someone in? Are they allowed to park in the zones marked off outside schools for the very purpose of increasing safety for young children crossing the road? Are they allowed to park across Ambulance or Fire Engine access routes? Are they allowed to park in the space at a hospital where Ambulances drop off critically ill patients?
I know I'm being excessively ridiculous now but the line has to be drawn somewhere and I don't see why it shouldn't be that child/parent spaces are not for disabled people unless they have children. Next we will be looking to justify why John Terry can't park in a disabled bay if there are lots of them and none of them are being used.
Either these bays are reserved or they are not. Otherwise it becomes a free for all and I would like to think that we are (as a society) better than that!
Also if a disabled driver can't park too far away does than mean that if there are no spaces right outside the venue, they go home and/or shop somewhere else?
I ask because the description above suggests that it is not about convenience but an inability to walk far enough.
Yes they do go else where, they don't have a choice.
I don't go in asdas near me and only go in morrisons, why? Because asda there is never a parent and child space or a disabled bay. I refuse to carry a getting very heavy 5 year old kicking, punching and screaming half a mile to the shop just because I need some groceries.
All that aggravation, surely then, and I choose the service as a random example, using Tesco's home delivery service (some slots only cost a £1 now) or click & collect would be by far the better option for you? I bet a £1 is not much different from the cost of the fuel for your car's trip to a supermarket.
You are right the convenience of home shopping is great, they always forget things though or we do, also not every shop sells everything you need/want even shopping online everyweek I found the need to go out to the shops.
Persons issued with blue badges are issued with them because the person cannot safely or without pain move long distances with great ease. These People should always get the opportunity to park nearer than the average able bodied person. Even though we have a blue badge, I use parent child spaces instead where possible because I can, some with badges, if they follow rules don't have that option.
Blue badges are great. They clearly indicate who is allowed to benefit from badge-holder status and make it easy to be sure who is taking their rightful place and who is "breaking the rules".
So, the same should apply for people with children in their cars. There should be a sticker (like "Child on Board"), which entitles the driver to park in P&C spaces. But, when using that sticker, the driver should be limited to a maximum speed of 20mph.
Blue badges are great. They clearly indicate who is allowed to benefit from badge-holder status and make it easy to be sure who is taking their rightful place and who is "breaking the rules".
So, the same should apply for people with children in their cars. There should be a sticker (like "Child on Board"), which entitles the driver to park in P&C spaces. But, when using that sticker, the driver should be limited to a maximum speed of 20mph.
Tesco operate this policy. You need a P&C sticker in your car or they will clamp you. To get one you have to apply in the shop. I don't know the process as my wife did it.
Blue badges are great. They clearly indicate who is allowed to benefit from badge-holder status and make it easy to be sure who is taking their rightful place and who is "breaking the rules".
So, the same should apply for people with children in their cars. There should be a sticker (like "Child on Board"), which entitles the driver to park in P&C spaces. But, when using that sticker, the driver should be limited to a maximum speed of 20mph.
How exactly are Tesco, Morrisons etc going to enforce a speed limit on public roads?
"The Blue Badges are great" comment is interesting.
It's impacted my family in two ways. First my Dad refused to have one (although he would have qualified) because he thought it was demeaning. Bonkers but I suspect he was not alone. Second my sister has one. She lives in N. Ireland. When I pick her up from Stansted Airport I can't use the disabled bays because I don't have her badge with me (obviously). So she is greatly disadvantaged.
And this is the sort of horrendous dumb ass bureaucracy you get in the USA: "The Florida Department of Transportation now requires a temporary US parking badge for international visitors. Now, instead of just using your blue UK Disabled Blue Parking Badge, you need to take it (along with your passport) to a local vehicle licensing office and pay a $15 fee for a temporary US parking badge."
So, you are disabled and you've got to spend part of your holiday tracking down a licensing office and pay for the privilege - shocking behaviour. There should be some international reciprocity surely?
There are pros and cons with everything but the blue badge scheme is far from perfect.
So, you are disabled and you've got to spend part of your holiday tracking down a licensing office and pay for the privilege - shocking behaviour. There should be some international reciprocity surely?
There is a reciprocal arrangement! their diplomats can come over here, park wherever and whenever they like, and never pay a parking fine.
Comments
Please tell me where this disabled person should park instead? A normal bay? I'm pretty sure that is a lot more unreasonable than asking tarquin and his mummy to park a few metres further away in a normal space.
Stay classy guys.
Of all the things in the world to get worried about...
Damn that mum with her two toddlers and baby in a pram trying to do her weekly shop as easily and safely as possible...
If I was in a parent and child bay with a child and saw a disabled person didn't have a bay I would unquestionably forefeit my space. To not do so is ridiculous.
Also I'm very wary of people who throw their toys out of their pram at the use of the word pikey and then effectively say that the someone with a disability who NEEDS a special parking space should be prioritised below someone who has one for CONVENIENCE.
I ask because the description above suggests that it is not about convenience but an inability to walk far enough.
Mother and child spaces are there for commercial reasons. Disabled spaces are there for real reasons.
I see it all the time, people rocking up in blue bays and then jumping out fit as a fiddle.
Personally I'm not sure why we need separate spaces for 'Disabled' and 'Parent/Child'. Why not have a single area for people with needs for extra space. There may be economies of scale.
The days of "social graces" in the UK are over (sadly) - it's every man for himself now.
Next it will be those "fat scooters" that we all have to give way to.
Despite how much some people clearly disagree with that, I think its probably for the best.
I must admit from a lot of these posts I have had a brilliant mental image in my head of a mother pushing a pram with her starbucks coffee sneering as a war veteran with no legs gets out of his car in a mother and child space into a wheelchair when all the disabled bays are taken.
I don't go in asdas near me and only go in morrisons, why? Because asda there is never a parent and child space or a disabled bay. I refuse to carry a getting very heavy 5 year old kicking, punching and screaming half a mile to the shop just because I need some groceries.
I was merely playing devils advocate in asking if the child/parent spaces are free to be used by disabled people if all their spaces are taken up because being a bit of a stickler for the rules I don't think that child/parent spaces are for anyone other than parents with children. If the shop (and I'm sure they do) have allocated the required number of spaces for disabled shoppers then they are, in my view, allowed to dictate that child/parent spaces are for parents with children (small children only if that is their choice).
If we are going to make it ok for disabled shoppers to park in parent/child spaces then it begs the question where is the line drawn. Are disabled cinema goes allowed to sit in the premium seats without paying the upgrade? Are they allowed to take a First Class seat on a train or an aeroplane if it is closer to the door than the seat they paid for? Are they allowed to park on a private drive with a blue badge? Are they allowed to park in such a way that it blocks someone in? Are they allowed to park in the zones marked off outside schools for the very purpose of increasing safety for young children crossing the road? Are they allowed to park across Ambulance or Fire Engine access routes? Are they allowed to park in the space at a hospital where Ambulances drop off critically ill patients?
I know I'm being excessively ridiculous now but the line has to be drawn somewhere and I don't see why it shouldn't be that child/parent spaces are not for disabled people unless they have children. Next we will be looking to justify why John Terry can't park in a disabled bay if there are lots of them and none of them are being used.
Either these bays are reserved or they are not. Otherwise it becomes a free for all and I would like to think that we are (as a society) better than that!
So, the same should apply for people with children in their cars. There should be a sticker (like "Child on Board"), which entitles the driver to park in P&C spaces. But, when using that sticker, the driver should be limited to a maximum speed of 20mph.
It's impacted my family in two ways. First my Dad refused to have one (although he would have qualified) because he thought it was demeaning. Bonkers but I suspect he was not alone. Second my sister has one. She lives in N. Ireland. When I pick her up from Stansted Airport I can't use the disabled bays because I don't have her badge with me (obviously). So she is greatly disadvantaged.
And this is the sort of horrendous dumb ass bureaucracy you get in the USA:
"The Florida Department of Transportation now requires a temporary US parking badge for international visitors.
Now, instead of just using your blue UK Disabled Blue Parking Badge, you need to take it (along with your passport) to a local vehicle licensing office and pay a $15 fee for a temporary US parking badge."
So, you are disabled and you've got to spend part of your holiday tracking down a licensing office and pay for the privilege - shocking behaviour. There should be some international reciprocity surely?
There are pros and cons with everything but the blue badge scheme is far from perfect.
So, you are disabled and you've got to spend part of your holiday tracking down a licensing office and pay for the privilege - shocking behaviour. There should be some international reciprocity surely?
There is a reciprocal arrangement! their diplomats can come over here, park wherever and whenever they like, and never pay a parking fine.