The four lane stretch of the A2 is one of the worst for lane hoggers. You could drive on the inside lane for miles and undertake everyone else. It's about time that this problem was taken more seriously, miles and miles of road are wasted by lane hoggers.
I don't know what goes through the brains of people who sit in lanes 3 and 4 when the inside lanes are completely empty. It infuriates me.
Plenty of valid points on this thread but it will do NOTHING to help. People who don't use indicators know what they are, it's their arrogance that allows them not to use them. If you are asked most people, they would probably know which lane they should be in, but, you know, it's only annoying a load of people I'll never see again so who cares? Also, if I crash I've got insurance and things are never my fault anyway.
Plenty of valid points on this thread but it will do NOTHING to help. People who don't use indicators know what they are, it's their arrogance that allows them not to use them. If you are asked most people, they would probably know which lane they should be in, but, you know, it's only annoying a load of people I'll never see again so who cares? Also, if I crash I've got insurance and things are never my fault anyway.
it's not just annoying its very dangerous. if you crash at 70-80mph you're going to be very lucky to even be around to claim any insurance.
Moved from Kent to the North West 2 years ago and I can see why the insurance company ask for more money, the standard of driving is absolutely horrendous. Every other driver forgets to put their headlights on when it's pitch black, zebra crossings might as well not exist as drivers don't stop for people waiting or even on them whatsoever, people don't see to understand how merging works. My daily commute used to involve going on the M62 between Manchester and Warrington - it's more or less a straight stretch of motorway with only one exit between Warrington and Manchester, yet every week at least one person manages to crash their car on it.
The only thing worse than the drivers is the road design - they love traffic lights up there. Every junction has a set of traffic lights, every roundabout has traffic lights all over the place. Plus nearly every road has the speed limit 20mph lower than what would be reasonable and safe.
Plenty of valid points on this thread but it will do NOTHING to help. People who don't use indicators know what they are, it's their arrogance that allows them not to use them. If you are asked most people, they would probably know which lane they should be in, but, you know, it's only annoying a load of people I'll never see again so who cares? Also, if I crash I've got insurance and things are never my fault anyway.
it's not just annoying its very dangerous. if you crash at 70-80mph you're going to be very lucky to even be around to claim any insurance.
Right, but I don't think people consider this, and even if you 'educated' them, 'it won't happen to me'.
I hate the drivers that when driving along a normal road want to turn right but don't manage to get over into the box for doing so instead get to where the turning is then pull across blocking the cars behind from passing as they are half in the lane and half in the box bit
I've just bought a motorcycle and I really fear for my safety when I'm out riding in a couple of weeks' time. Having learned a little about road etiquette now, there really are innumerable obnoxious, dangerous a'holes out there. It does feel like a question of not whether I have an accident, but how bad will it be.
Just to be clear here, we're talking about Pete who drive in the middle Lane at under the speed limit, right? Because there's surely nothing wrong with people doing it at 70mph (the national speed limit on UK motorways) is there?
Fully agree that people who drive in the middle Lane at 60mph are idiots.
Just to be clear here, we're talking about Pete who drive in the middle Lane at under the speed limit, right? Because there's surely nothing wrong with people doing it at 70mph (the national speed limit on UK motorways) is there?
Fully agree that people who drive in the middle Lane at 60mph are idiots.
It doesn't matter at what speed you're travelling, you shouldn't remain in that lane after you have overtaken. If the lane to your left is empty you should move into it, irrespective of speed.
Because there's surely nothing wrong with people doing it at 70mph (the national speed limit on UK motorways) is there?
Well, probably. First if you discipline yourself to always move over whenever you can, you automatically become a better driver because it becomes sensible to make very frequent use of your mirrors and your indicators. This, in turn, means that you are more aware of what is going on around you. It also means that it is much more likely that you will stay awake because your brain will be active.
Second, the Institute of Advanced Motorists suggests always moving over whenever you will not need the outer lane(s) again for an estimated 14 seconds.
Third, The Highway Code tells you to do it:-
137 On a two-lane dual carriageway you should stay in the left-hand lane. Use the right-hand lane for overtaking or turning right. After overtaking, move back to the left-hand lane when it is safe to do so.
138 On a three-lane dual carriageway, you may use the middle lane or the right-hand lane to overtake but return to the middle and then the left-hand lane when it is safe.
160 Once moving you should keep to the left
168 Being overtaken. If a driver is trying to overtake you, maintain a steady course and speed, slowing down if necessary to let the vehicle pass. Never obstruct drivers who wish to pass.
Fourth, and most importantly of all, even if other traffic is trying to overtake you at a speed in excess of the limit, while you are travelling at the speed limit, you can still be prosecuted for "driving without due care and attention" if you are obstructing them." And that is how it should be.
PS. If you're doing this in a Nissan Micra you should have your knees removed with a club hammer.
I've just bought a motorcycle and I really fear for my safety when I'm out riding in a couple of weeks' time. Having learned a little about road etiquette now, there really are innumerable obnoxious, dangerous a'holes out there. It does feel like a question of not whether I have an accident, but how bad will it be.
honestly, just let everyone know what you're doing and assume everyone around you has the iq and intelligence of a mentally challenged bat and you'll be fine.
Just to be clear here, we're talking about Pete who drive in the middle Lane at under the speed limit, right? Because there's surely nothing wrong with people doing it at 70mph (the national speed limit on UK motorways) is there?
Fully agree that people who drive in the middle Lane at 60mph are idiots.
It doesn't matter at what speed you're travelling, you shouldn't remain in that lane after you have overtaken. If the lane to your left is empty you should move into it, irrespective of speed.
Why?
I have never seen any legitimate explanation for this - other than an entirely discredited study that linked it with causing congestion (since proven to be flawed as the logic of the study was predicated on the entirely incorrect assumption that traffic in the middle Lane was stationary)
Provided that no-one is going over the speed limit, there should never be any problem with it - and it actually surely leads to less congestion because there isn't anyone needing to pull out at junctions where traffic is joining from the left.
Be honest - the people that moan about it are the people that think they're entitled to travel at 95mph on the motorway. I'm not necessarily having a go at that - I just think that it's a but rich of people to moan about it when there isn't any evidence that it causes problems. Nor do I think it's appropriate for there to be legislation to allow police go pull people over and fine then for something that amounts to something that annoys people rather than endangers them.
Leroy, read cafcfan's piece above as to why. It is the correct way to drive according to the Highway Code.
Anyway, why stay in a lane when you CAN move to the left?
Because after a minute or so you'll be right behind someone driving too slow (for you) again and will have to move back over. I appreciate that lane hopping is an enjoyable past time for some but for others, especially those wary about constantly switching lanes at high speed, it's not.
Believe me, driving in England is a pleasure compared with driving here in Thailand. Thailand is among the world's most dangerous counties for road accidents and you can see why every time you go on the road.
Honestly Leroy, that's nonsense to me. People do between 60-80 in general. Some go way faster, some go a little slower, but that speed covers most vehicles. I couldn't care less what speed other people do, it's basically irrelevant. And I don't get the connection you're making to how much money people have in their wallets. If one of them sits in the outside lane, rich or poor, at the lower end of that scale, and nobody is allowed to pass on the inside, then traffic will get backed up. It's not complicated enough IMO for a study to prove or disprove it. The idea that people are 'just a little irritated' is bona fide stupid. To me.
Leroy, read cafcfan's piece above as to why. It is the correct way to drive according to the Highway Code.
Anyway, why stay in a lane when you CAN move to the left?
Because after a minute or so you'll be right behind someone driving too slow (for you) again and will have to move back over. I appreciate that lane hopping is an enjoyable past time for some but for others, especially those wary about constantly switching lanes at high speed, it's not.
not talking about those who stay in the overtaking lane to overtake, but those who sit in the overtaking lane when there's clearly half a mile or so of no traffic in front of them
Leroy, read cafcfan's piece above as to why. It is the correct way to drive according to the Highway Code.
Anyway, why stay in a lane when you CAN move to the left?
Because after a minute or so you'll be right behind someone driving too slow (for you) again and will have to move back over. I appreciate that lane hopping is an enjoyable past time for some but for others, especially those wary about constantly switching lanes at high speed, it's not.
not talking about those who stay in the overtaking lane to overtake, but those who sit in the overtaking lane when there's clearly half a mile or so of no traffic in front of them
Oh ok. Was just answering 'Why stay in a lane when you CAN move to the left'.
Honestly Leroy, that's nonsense to me. People do between 60-80 in general. Some go way faster, some go a little slower, but that speed covers most vehicles. I couldn't care less what speed other people do, it's basically irrelevant. And I don't get the connection you're making to how much money people have in their wallets. If one of them sits in the outside lane, rich or poor, at the lower end of that scale, and nobody is allowed to pass on the inside, then traffic will get backed up. It's not complicated enough IMO for a study to prove or disprove it. The idea that people are 'just a little irritated' is bona fide stupid. To me.
Where did I make any reference to how much money people have in their wallets?
And you've just validated my argument by saying that people do between 60 and 80. 80 is ten mph over the speed limit, and is illegal.
I maintain - people moaning about this are the same people who moan when cyclists overtake them - they've just got the arse hole with something and want a good old fucking whinge.
Leroy, read cafcfan's piece above as to why. It is the correct way to drive according to the Highway Code.
Anyway, why stay in a lane when you CAN move to the left?
Because after a minute or so you'll be right behind someone driving too slow (for you) again and will have to move back over. I appreciate that lane hopping is an enjoyable past time for some but for others, especially those wary about constantly switching lanes at high speed, it's not.
If they're that wary about changing lanes they have no business driving at all. If you're too scared to change lane you shouldn't have a driving licence.
Leroy, read cafcfan's piece above as to why. It is the correct way to drive according to the Highway Code.
Anyway, why stay in a lane when you CAN move to the left?
Because after a minute or so you'll be right behind someone driving too slow (for you) again and will have to move back over. I appreciate that lane hopping is an enjoyable past time for some but for others, especially those wary about constantly switching lanes at high speed, it's not.
If they're that wary about changing lanes they have no business driving at all. If you're too scared to change lane you shouldn't have a driving licence.
LOL. I don't think 'too scared to change lanes' is fair. I was thinking of my mum who has no problem changing lanes but doesn't like to keep swapping unnecessarily.
Honestly Leroy, that's nonsense to me. People do between 60-80 in general. Some go way faster, some go a little slower, but that speed covers most vehicles. I couldn't care less what speed other people do, it's basically irrelevant. And I don't get the connection you're making to how much money people have in their wallets. If one of them sits in the outside lane, rich or poor, at the lower end of that scale, and nobody is allowed to pass on the inside, then traffic will get backed up. It's not complicated enough IMO for a study to prove or disprove it. The idea that people are 'just a little irritated' is bona fide stupid. To me.
Where did I make any reference to how much money people have in their wallets?
And you've just validated my argument by saying that people do between 60 and 80. 80 is ten mph over the speed limit, and is illegal.
I maintain - people moaning about this are the same people who moan when cyclists overtake them - they've just got the arse hole with something and want a good old fucking whinge.
If everyone did 70 then they'd be no need to overtake, but the reality is not everyone does.
Facts are that people sit in lane 2 (2&3 on 4 lane carriageways) travelling slower than others. This does cause congestion as it forces those overtaking who should be in lane 2 to move to lane 3, which in turn holds up faster moving traffic using lane 3.
Van doing 50 sits in lane 2 (overtaking lane), forcing @Henry Irving travelling at 60 to move his Micra into Lane 3 (overtaking lane), which forces me (who never travels at anything other than a steady 70 - honest Officer) to slow down, forcing the vehicle behind to apply his breaks too, which forces the vehicle behind to do so etc etc.
In light traffic this is not too much of an issue, but in moderate to heavy traffic this does have massive knock on effects as we all break more heavily than needs be to keep perfect pace with the car in front.
Therefore I may slow down to 57, the car behind 53, the car behind that to 50, all the way down to under 10 within the space of a mile or so of vehicles.
Recent studies show this is one of the reasons traffic jams appear for no apparent reason.
Honestly Leroy, that's nonsense to me. People do between 60-80 in general. Some go way faster, some go a little slower, but that speed covers most vehicles. I couldn't care less what speed other people do, it's basically irrelevant. And I don't get the connection you're making to how much money people have in their wallets. If one of them sits in the outside lane, rich or poor, at the lower end of that scale, and nobody is allowed to pass on the inside, then traffic will get backed up. It's not complicated enough IMO for a study to prove or disprove it. The idea that people are 'just a little irritated' is bona fide stupid. To me.
Where did I make any reference to how much money people have in their wallets?
And you've just validated my argument by saying that people do between 60 and 80. 80 is ten mph over the speed limit, and is illegal.
I maintain - people moaning about this are the same people who moan when cyclists overtake them - they've just got the arse hole with something and want a good old fucking whinge.
Sorry, speed read on phone and mis-read the rich bit! Pretty funny but my bad.
But I stand by the rest. I believe we all know 80 is largely accepted, and anyone over that is being a little dodgy. It's being a little simplistic to say anyone going over 70 doesn't have a say in the argument because they're breaking the law. I'm surprised you're using that as the basis for your argument, it's not the real world. More to the point, if you're doing 70 then you can do that in the left lane and rarely have to move. So why bother going to the outside? Just to be a bit of an annoying twat, maybe. But to get to the destination quicker or safer? No chance.
The final paragraph there is generalistic nonsense. I've never complained about cyclists and have plenty to whine about outside of this, so that doesn't undermine my argument at all. I maintain that anybody who sits in the outside lanes and uses the 70mph speed limit argument as a blanket of protection is an obnoxious idiot.
Your car is your own little fiefdom. Jump in, wack on with your fav toons or a bit of talk radio. If it's raining outside, you stay dry, if it's cold you turn the heating up and you're all snug in your own little bubble.
The trouble is any idiot can pass a driving test (either in this country or more relevant nowadays, anywhere else in the world), jump in a tons worth of lethal weapon and off they go onto our congested and busy road system. There are many people driving that we all know, we would not trust to tie their own shoe laces. They invariably have no self awareness outside of checking Facebook on their i-phone and are a danger to themselves let alone the poor bastards who have to use the same roads as them to simply get from A to B. This can manifest itself in many ways of course but the one way I as a driver of 35 years have noticed become more prevalent, is the complete balloon poodling along in the middle lane causing free flowing and fast traffic (they are called motorways for a reason...) to take evasive action which as people have mentioned above has a ripple on effect to legitimate traffic flow.
I was taught to drive to be considerate to other road users and also to look after myself on the road, which involves having to second guess the actions of complete strangers. When you do eventually pass these middle lane cretins, they are invariably oblivious to any situation they have been causing for a few miles and are away with the fucking pixies.
The sooner technology comes in to to drive cars automatically and safely for us the better. Shame, because driving can be a liberating and pleasurable experience, honest!
For me, while lane-hoggers are are enormously irritating, they pale into insignificance compared to people using their phones to text and make calls.
There is *no* reasons to have a phone in the car with you, if you are driving alone. You are *either* driving *or* you are free to make and receive calls and texts. No middle ground. If you're on a journey where you want to have your phone with you when you get there, stick it in the boot.
People driving alone with phones in the car should be fined and given points on the spot. No exceptions.
If you're in the middle lane doing 70 and passing slower moving lorries you inevitably get tailgated, more often you have lorries doing about 50 on the inside lane, and then vans in the middle lane doing about 60-65, so you move into the outside lane doing 70 and you will definitely have other drivers right behind you, and in their heads they are screaming 'GET OUT OF MY WAY, I HAVE A BMW/AUDI/JAG/MERC AND I PAID A FORTUNE FOR IT, YOU HAVE TO KNOW I AM FASTER THAN YOUR MONDEO, GET OUT OF MY WAY'...that's it. No heed if there is a realistic opportunity to move over, they simply want to speed away and will drive a foot from your rear bumper, flashing and hooting to show you how they feel.
When they do that I put my hazard lights on, and when they eventually go past I tend to give them the finger whilst looking straight ahead and laughing. Funnily enough this is enough to make them swerve right in front of you whilst gesticulating, which means they weren't in so much of a hurry after all.
Comments
I don't know what goes through the brains of people who sit in lanes 3 and 4 when the inside lanes are completely empty. It infuriates me.
The only thing worse than the drivers is the road design - they love traffic lights up there. Every junction has a set of traffic lights, every roundabout has traffic lights all over the place. Plus nearly every road has the speed limit 20mph lower than what would be reasonable and safe.
Fully agree that people who drive in the middle Lane at 60mph are idiots.
Second, the Institute of Advanced Motorists suggests always moving over whenever you will not need the outer lane(s) again for an estimated 14 seconds.
Third, The Highway Code tells you to do it:-
137 On a two-lane dual carriageway you should stay in the left-hand lane. Use the right-hand lane for overtaking or turning right. After overtaking, move back to the left-hand lane when it is safe to do so.
138
On a three-lane dual carriageway, you may use the middle lane or the right-hand lane to overtake but return to the middle and then the left-hand lane when it is safe.
160
Once moving you should keep to the left
168
Being overtaken. If a driver is trying to overtake you, maintain a steady course and speed, slowing down if necessary to let the vehicle pass. Never obstruct drivers who wish to pass.
Fourth, and most importantly of all, even if other traffic is trying to overtake you at a speed in excess of the limit, while you are travelling at the speed limit, you can still be prosecuted for "driving without due care and attention" if you are obstructing them." And that is how it should be.
PS. If you're doing this in a Nissan Micra you should have your knees removed with a club hammer.
I have never seen any legitimate explanation for this - other than an entirely discredited study that linked it with causing congestion (since proven to be flawed as the logic of the study was predicated on the entirely incorrect assumption that traffic in the middle Lane was stationary)
Provided that no-one is going over the speed limit, there should never be any problem with it - and it actually surely leads to less congestion because there isn't anyone needing to pull out at junctions where traffic is joining from the left.
Be honest - the people that moan about it are the people that think they're entitled to travel at 95mph on the motorway. I'm not necessarily having a go at that - I just think that it's a but rich of people to moan about it when there isn't any evidence that it causes problems. Nor do I think it's appropriate for there to be legislation to allow police go pull people over and fine then for something that amounts to something that annoys people rather than endangers them.
Anyway, why stay in a lane when you CAN move to the left?
And you've just validated my argument by saying that people do between 60 and 80. 80 is ten mph over the speed limit, and is illegal.
I maintain - people moaning about this are the same people who moan when cyclists overtake them - they've just got the arse hole with something and want a good old fucking whinge.
Facts are that people sit in lane 2 (2&3 on 4 lane carriageways) travelling slower than others. This does cause congestion as it forces those overtaking who should be in lane 2 to move to lane 3, which in turn holds up faster moving traffic using lane 3.
Van doing 50 sits in lane 2 (overtaking lane), forcing @Henry Irving travelling at 60 to move his Micra into Lane 3 (overtaking lane), which forces me (who never travels at anything other than a steady 70 - honest Officer) to slow down, forcing the vehicle behind to apply his breaks too, which forces the vehicle behind to do so etc etc.
In light traffic this is not too much of an issue, but in moderate to heavy traffic this does have massive knock on effects as we all break more heavily than needs be to keep perfect pace with the car in front.
Therefore I may slow down to 57, the car behind 53, the car behind that to 50, all the way down to under 10 within the space of a mile or so of vehicles.
Recent studies show this is one of the reasons traffic jams appear for no apparent reason.
But I stand by the rest. I believe we all know 80 is largely accepted, and anyone over that is being a little dodgy. It's being a little simplistic to say anyone going over 70 doesn't have a say in the argument because they're breaking the law. I'm surprised you're using that as the basis for your argument, it's not the real world. More to the point, if you're doing 70 then you can do that in the left lane and rarely have to move. So why bother going to the outside? Just to be a bit of an annoying twat, maybe. But to get to the destination quicker or safer? No chance.
The final paragraph there is generalistic nonsense. I've never complained about cyclists and have plenty to whine about outside of this, so that doesn't undermine my argument at all. I maintain that anybody who sits in the outside lanes and uses the 70mph speed limit argument as a blanket of protection is an obnoxious idiot.
The trouble is any idiot can pass a driving test (either in this country or more relevant nowadays, anywhere else in the world), jump in a tons worth of lethal weapon and off they go onto our congested and busy road system. There are many people driving that we all know, we would not trust to tie their own shoe laces. They invariably have no self awareness outside of checking Facebook on their i-phone and are a danger to themselves let alone the poor bastards who have to use the same roads as them to simply get from A to B. This can manifest itself in many ways of course but the one way I as a driver of 35 years have noticed become more prevalent, is the complete balloon poodling along in the middle lane causing free flowing and fast traffic (they are called motorways for a reason...) to take evasive action which as people have mentioned above has a ripple on effect to legitimate traffic flow.
I was taught to drive to be considerate to other road users and also to look after myself on the road, which involves having to second guess the actions of complete strangers. When you do eventually pass these middle lane cretins, they are invariably oblivious to any situation they have been causing for a few miles and are away with the fucking pixies.
The sooner technology comes in to to drive cars automatically and safely for us the better. Shame, because driving can be a liberating and pleasurable experience, honest!
There is *no* reasons to have a phone in the car with you, if you are driving alone. You are *either* driving *or* you are free to make and receive calls and texts. No middle ground. If you're on a journey where you want to have your phone with you when you get there, stick it in the boot.
People driving alone with phones in the car should be fined and given points on the spot. No exceptions.
When they do that I put my hazard lights on, and when they eventually go past I tend to give them the finger whilst looking straight ahead and laughing. Funnily enough this is enough to make them swerve right in front of you whilst gesticulating, which means they weren't in so much of a hurry after all.