Would you prefer there was a separate channel at Border Control for people who don't think they should have to answer questions?
Seems like a load of fuss about nothing.
I realise that you only come on here to wind up but for the benefit of others I'll repeat; at Gatwick this cannot happen because a machine has replaced these clowns. The bloke at Ebbsfleeet is stealing a living, and, to quote your favourite paper, it's YOUR money that's paying for it
There are pre departure security checks at airports whereby you have to record your passport details at least two days before you depart. That's probably why airport security seems reduced - so they can focus on key threats.
I had forgotten that, and that might be an explanation.
For it to really be true the following would need to happen.
I whack my details into the EasyJet website when logging in. The same details that I logged in every other time. This time, however due to suspicions about my consultancy being a front for arms-dealing, the details are passed from EasyJet to the Border Force computer which automatically sets a red alert. That Prague Addick is coming through Gatwick!!! As soon as I show my passport at the machine there, another red alert goes off and the diligent Border Force hit squad descend on me and cart me off for questioning.
Sure I can believe that this is how it happens - in Spooks. In reality? Please...
See, my cynicism about the need for all this is compounded by the liquid ban bullshit at the airports.
Have you ever stopped to wonder why it doesn't apply to the Tunnel trains? Because for sure for a terrorist, the tunnel is an inviting target.
Up to now I would not even dare mention it on a public forum, lest it encourage Teresa May's goons to impose it there too, for "consistency".
But now it has quietly been announced that across the EU the liquid ban will be lifted on 1 Jan 2016.
Clearly this is a triumph for diplomacy. Agreement has clearly been reached with the terrorists that they will no longer try to make liquid bombs as of this date. Otherwise how it can it be possible that the threat exists on 31 December 2015, but not on 1.1.16? So at least I can safely ask, why did this never apply to Eurostar?
Well, it is amazing how little this ban was discussed in the mainstream media. You have to stray off to more specialised websites to read about this, and then it becomes difficult to know how "expert" they are. However more than once I have read that in practice making a bomb in the supposed way was more or less impossible because it would require up to four people to pile into the plane loo and do very funny things. Which might just not go unnoticed. Now what strikes me is that it might go unnoticed on a large Eurostar train. Yet the ban was never enforced. Why might that be? I can think of two reasons:
1. The French and Belgians simply never believed this threat and refused to wear it (but they have gone along with it at airports so that seems unlikely)
2. The volume of duty free sales at Eurostar is a tiny fraction of the huge volume at airports
How much is a current variant AK47 and 500 rounds nowadays Prague? :-)
The guys I used to deal with pay on average about £35 per unit and 25p per round for a Tula arsenal (Russian) AK. HOWEVER, they have to import a minimum of 25 units and then pay for them to be deactivated and proofed at the London proofing house and sell them as wall hangers for about £245-£350 each, no use to man or beast as a weapon though......well you did ask!! ;o)
1. The French and Belgians simply never believed this threat and refused to wear it (but they have gone along with it at airports so that seems unlikely)
US-bound flights wouldn't have been able to depart from those airports if they hadn't gone along with it, so they didn't really have a choice.
...I'm really inclined to take this up with my MP.
Gosh, that Border Force person really did push a button when s/he stopped you. I've got to be honest, I really can't see what all the fuss is about. I read through your verbatim report it took 30 seconds. Allow for a few pauses and maybe the real event took about a minute - or if it was really dramatic, two. I can't see anything in there that's rude or discourteous and there's no question that's asked that I can't see as being justifiable. You've already written to Border Force and got a text book answer. What do you think your MP will do about it? Personally, I can't see you getting any satisfaction at all through this route. Let's face it, they can't turn the clock back, they can't give you assurances that it won't happen again, and the chances of persuading the authorities to change their procedures are minimal.
I think your point about the proposed Eurostar-Marseille is an interesting one, and possibly worth investigating - though I'd be amazed if it was true and the rail companies weren't already lobbying to ensure no such delays.
having spent a working lifetime travelling the World I'm so glad that now retired I shall never have to cross a border again, that is until Charlton and in Europe
Would you prefer there was a separate channel at Border Control for people who don't think they should have to answer questions?
Seems like a load of fuss about nothing.
I realise that you only come on here to wind up but for the benefit of others I'll repeat; at Gatwick this cannot happen because a machine has replaced these clowns. The bloke at Ebbsfleeet is stealing a living, and, to quote your favourite paper, it's YOUR money that's paying for it
I can see your point about consistency; when you compare it to Gatwick it is ridiculous - and I'm presuming this is Prague's point.
I've used Gatwick to Copenhagen for work, and recently for a friendly visit; each time I've just thrown my stuff on a conveyor belt and it's been checked by a machine. My passport? It's been scanned by an electronic scanner and then given the eyeball from someone who works for the airline. Done and dusted. No more.
The exact same thing occurred when I used Gatwick for Marrakech, and Gatwick to Dubrovnik twice - all those times in the past 18 months.
If it's so essential then why on earth aren't UKBF doing this everywhere? In fact, how come I've been through a major UK airport 12 times in the past 18 months and never seen, let alone interacted, anyone from UKBF?
On the contrary, I don't think UKBF should avoid questioning people (and I doubt Prague is saying this too) - but they should be questioning people consistently when crossing our borders; regardless of their chosen mode of travel.
Strikes me as odd that Prague got the shake-down when leaving the UK at Ebbsfleet, yet whenever I've entered the UK at Dover via Calais (which I've done 5 times) there's been diddly squat at either end, and considering how the French are doing everything in their power to ease the transit of illegals through their territory into the UK, I would have thought this was a slightly higher priority than those leaving at Ebbsfleet.
Why is it that in Calais, the French police just stand and look at the illegal immigrants. If they are in France illegally why don't they just deport them? They know where they are and each night they stand in line to get their food, so an easy job to catch them.
Security is always inconsistent. There's got to be a lowest common denominator problem with the staff on the "front line". I mean, what a crap job sitting there checking countless passports all day and getting a dose of "work-related upper limb disorder" on the side.
I also remember when the City of London had the so-called "Ring of Steel" security. What a laugh that was! All the plod ever did was stop tacky looking motors. Never, ever, did you see them pull up a black cab or a shiny chauffeur-driven jobbie. But if you'd been in the PIRA, that's exactly the way you'd have brought you car bomb into the City isn't it?
Because they're too busy nicking British tourists who haven't got their breathalyser test kit, reflective jackets, spare bulbs or warning triangle as they head off down the A26 to Paris.
Would you prefer there was a separate channel at Border Control for people who don't think they should have to answer questions?
Seems like a load of fuss about nothing.
I realise that you only come on here to wind up but for the benefit of others I'll repeat; at Gatwick this cannot happen because a machine has replaced these clowns. The bloke at Ebbsfleeet is stealing a living, and, to quote your favourite paper, it's YOUR money that's paying for it
I can see your point about consistency; when you compare it to Gatwick it is ridiculous - and I'm presuming this is Prague's point.
I've used Gatwick to Copenhagen for work, and recently for a friendly visit; each time I've just thrown my stuff on a conveyor belt and it's been checked by a machine. My passport? It's been scanned by an electronic scanner and then given the eyeball from someone who works for the airline. Done and dusted. No more.
The exact same thing occurred when I used Gatwick for Marrakech, and Gatwick to Dubrovnik twice - all those times in the past 18 months.
If it's so essential then why on earth aren't UKBF doing this everywhere? In fact, how come I've been through a major UK airport 12 times in the past 18 months and never seen, let alone interacted, anyone from UKBF?
On the contrary, I don't think UKBF should avoid questioning people (and I doubt Prague is saying this too) - but they should be questioning people consistently when crossing our borders; regardless of their chosen mode of travel.
Strikes me as odd that Prague got the shake-down when leaving the UK at Ebbsfleet, yet whenever I've entered the UK at Dover via Calais (which I've done 5 times) there's been diddly squat at either end, and considering how the French are doing everything in their power to ease the transit of illegals through their territory into the UK, I would have thought this was a slightly higher priority than those leaving at Ebbsfleet.
Why is it that in Calais, the French police just stand and look at the illegal immigrants. If they are in France illegally why don't they just deport them? They know where they are and each night they stand in line to get their food, so an easy job to catch them.
Because they know as soon as they collar an illegal the illegal will claim asylum and become their government's problem. Illegals want to get to the UK due to the perception that the UK is a 'soft-touch' on illegals and asylum seekers, so the French are more than happy to turn a blind eye to them.
...I'm really inclined to take this up with my MP.
Gosh, that Border Force person really did push a button when s/he stopped you. I've got to be honest, I really can't see what all the fuss is about. I read through your verbatim report it took 30 seconds. Allow for a few pauses and maybe the real event took about a minute - or if it was really dramatic, two. I can't see anything in there that's rude or discourteous and there's no question that's asked that I can't see as being justifiable. You've already written to Border Force and got a text book answer. What do you think your MP will do about it? Personally, I can't see you getting any satisfaction at all through this route. Let's face it, they can't turn the clock back, they can't give you assurances that it won't happen again, and the chances of persuading the authorities to change their procedures are minimal.
I think your point about the proposed Eurostar-Marseille is an interesting one, and possibly worth investigating - though I'd be amazed if it was true and the rail companies weren't already lobbying to ensure no such delays.
I fully understand that a lot of people will wonder about the fuss I'm making. It's not about the incident per se. I've got two broader issues
1. The Border Force seem intent on making Eurostar as big a pain in the ass as air travel is, rather than concentrating on what we want them to do, stop illegal entry.
2. The UK and US governments use 'the terror threat" to impose unnecessary surveillance on all of us, which I think is important to question and resist.
Regarding point 1 here is the link to the fiasco of the new Eurostar Med. service . Any lobbying by Eurostar has failed, this was announced two years ago and the service starts in May. The French refused to build some big object in Marseille station with a sign saying "UK Border". The Border Force refuse to carry out the checks on the train (which is what happened in Europe pre Schengen). So we end up with this, which basically will kill the service at birth. I understand that this is also another reason for the delay in Deutsche Bahn's direct services through the tunnel to Cologne and Frankfurt. if I do write to my MP I will bundle it up with this wider issue/
Regarding point 2, either this bothers you or it doesn't. It bothers me and I will always try to persuade other people to be bothered too. I guess it's a consequence of having Orwell as a key part of my English Lit lessons at school, and modern European history (especially Eastern Europe after the war) in the history lessons.
Here you go. The actual date is buried in this PR article for a machine (albeit a British invention). It is amazing how nervous the mainstream media has been in discussing the liquid ban. I doubt that is an accident of journalism.
...I'm really inclined to take this up with my MP.
Gosh, that Border Force person really did push a button when s/he stopped you. I've got to be honest, I really can't see what all the fuss is about. I read through your verbatim report it took 30 seconds. Allow for a few pauses and maybe the real event took about a minute - or if it was really dramatic, two. I can't see anything in there that's rude or discourteous and there's no question that's asked that I can't see as being justifiable. You've already written to Border Force and got a text book answer. What do you think your MP will do about it? Personally, I can't see you getting any satisfaction at all through this route. Let's face it, they can't turn the clock back, they can't give you assurances that it won't happen again, and the chances of persuading the authorities to change their procedures are minimal.
I think your point about the proposed Eurostar-Marseille is an interesting one, and possibly worth investigating - though I'd be amazed if it was true and the rail companies weren't already lobbying to ensure no such delays.
I fully understand that a lot of people will wonder about the fuss I'm making. It's not about the incident per se. I've got two broader issues
1. The Border Force seem intent on making Eurostar as big a pain in the ass as air travel is, rather than concentrating on what we want them to do, stop illegal entry.
2. The UK and US governments use 'the terror threat" to impose unnecessary surveillance on all of us, which I think is important to question and resist.
Regarding point 1 here is the link to the fiasco of the new Eurostar Med. service . Any lobbying by Eurostar has failed, this was announced two years ago and the service starts in May. The French refused to build some big object in Marseille station with a sign saying "UK Border". The Border Force refuse to carry out the checks on the train (which is what happened in Europe pre Schengen). So we end up with this, which basically will kill the service at birth. I understand that this is also another reason for the delay in Deutsche Bahn's direct services through the tunnel to Cologne and Frankfurt. if I do write to my MP I will bundle it up with this wider issue/
Regarding point 2, either this bothers you or it doesn't. It bothers me and I will always try to persuade other people to be bothered too. I guess it's a consequence of having Orwell as a key part of my English Lit lessons at school, and modern European history (especially Eastern Europe after the war) in the history lessons.
I think this only adds to the "what a fuss about nothing" argument to be honest.
...I'm really inclined to take this up with my MP.
Gosh, that Border Force person really did push a button when s/he stopped you. I've got to be honest, I really can't see what all the fuss is about. I read through your verbatim report it took 30 seconds. Allow for a few pauses and maybe the real event took about a minute - or if it was really dramatic, two. I can't see anything in there that's rude or discourteous and there's no question that's asked that I can't see as being justifiable. You've already written to Border Force and got a text book answer. What do you think your MP will do about it? Personally, I can't see you getting any satisfaction at all through this route. Let's face it, they can't turn the clock back, they can't give you assurances that it won't happen again, and the chances of persuading the authorities to change their procedures are minimal.
I think your point about the proposed Eurostar-Marseille is an interesting one, and possibly worth investigating - though I'd be amazed if it was true and the rail companies weren't already lobbying to ensure no such delays.
I fully understand that a lot of people will wonder about the fuss I'm making. It's not about the incident per se. I've got two broader issues
1. The Border Force seem intent on making Eurostar as big a pain in the ass as air travel is, rather than concentrating on what we want them to do, stop illegal entry.
2. The UK and US governments use 'the terror threat" to impose unnecessary surveillance on all of us, which I think is important to question and resist.
Regarding point 1 here is the link to the fiasco of the new Eurostar Med. service . Any lobbying by Eurostar has failed, this was announced two years ago and the service starts in May. The French refused to build some big object in Marseille station with a sign saying "UK Border". The Border Force refuse to carry out the checks on the train (which is what happened in Europe pre Schengen). So we end up with this, which basically will kill the service at birth. I understand that this is also another reason for the delay in Deutsche Bahn's direct services through the tunnel to Cologne and Frankfurt. if I do write to my MP I will bundle it up with this wider issue/
Regarding point 2, either this bothers you or it doesn't. It bothers me and I will always try to persuade other people to be bothered too. I guess it's a consequence of having Orwell as a key part of my English Lit lessons at school, and modern European history (especially Eastern Europe after the war) in the history lessons.
I think this only adds to the "what a fuss about nothing" argument to be honest.
Whatever. Plenty of people thought ID cards were a good idea, too.
...I'm really inclined to take this up with my MP.
Gosh, that Border Force person really did push a button when s/he stopped you. I've got to be honest, I really can't see what all the fuss is about. I read through your verbatim report it took 30 seconds. Allow for a few pauses and maybe the real event took about a minute - or if it was really dramatic, two. I can't see anything in there that's rude or discourteous and there's no question that's asked that I can't see as being justifiable. You've already written to Border Force and got a text book answer. What do you think your MP will do about it? Personally, I can't see you getting any satisfaction at all through this route. Let's face it, they can't turn the clock back, they can't give you assurances that it won't happen again, and the chances of persuading the authorities to change their procedures are minimal.
I think your point about the proposed Eurostar-Marseille is an interesting one, and possibly worth investigating - though I'd be amazed if it was true and the rail companies weren't already lobbying to ensure no such delays.
I fully understand that a lot of people will wonder about the fuss I'm making. It's not about the incident per se. I've got two broader issues
1. The Border Force seem intent on making Eurostar as big a pain in the ass as air travel is, rather than concentrating on what we want them to do, stop illegal entry.
2. The UK and US governments use 'the terror threat" to impose unnecessary surveillance on all of us, which I think is important to question and resist.
Regarding point 1 here is the link to the fiasco of the new Eurostar Med. service . Any lobbying by Eurostar has failed, this was announced two years ago and the service starts in May. The French refused to build some big object in Marseille station with a sign saying "UK Border". The Border Force refuse to carry out the checks on the train (which is what happened in Europe pre Schengen). So we end up with this, which basically will kill the service at birth. I understand that this is also another reason for the delay in Deutsche Bahn's direct services through the tunnel to Cologne and Frankfurt. if I do write to my MP I will bundle it up with this wider issue/
Regarding point 2, either this bothers you or it doesn't. It bothers me and I will always try to persuade other people to be bothered too. I guess it's a consequence of having Orwell as a key part of my English Lit lessons at school, and modern European history (especially Eastern Europe after the war) in the history lessons.
I think this only adds to the "what a fuss about nothing" argument to be honest.
point 2 is certainly not a fuss about nothing.
Boom, do you mind PMing me your bank account details, your private email correspondence and your full internet history? I'm not doing anything with it, except collecting for surveillance. If you haven't done anything wrong you should be fine with giving me this information.
Not a problem, but I thought I'd already given these details to you. Are you not Uche Okeke from Lagos? Wondered where my promised £1gazillion had got to. Feel a bit silly now.
Not a problem, but I thought I'd already given these details to you. Are you not Uche Okeke from Lagos? Wondered where my promised £1gazillion had got to. Feel a bit silly now.
don't worry, i've got a deal with your ISP so i've got that information anyway.
I got stopped driving my new BMW by the police last night and they asked where I was going and what I did for a job as it's a nice car, shit best not go eurodisney after Christmas might get stopped and asked the same about my designer luggage, then that would mean that's two letters I would have to write, sod that can't be bothered
On Monday I caught "Le Shuttle" from Folkestone at 06:20 and for the first time in my life I did not have show a passport to anyone either leaving the UK or entering France. I have experienced this when crossing borders between other EU countries but that has never before Monday included the UK border.
Well I complained. I provided the dialogue verbatim and stressed that my main concern is whether stopping someone with my appearance and passport type is a sensible deployment of their time, when they are constantly complaining of being under-resourced. Finally today (after 75 days) they replied, and only after I threatened to take the issue to my MP if they didn't reply. Here it is...words in bold are my emphasis or addition
They are empowered to ask relevant questions of any passenger in order to establish identity and nationality (that is what a passport does) and whether or not cash or seizable or excisable commodities are being moved illegally into or out of the country. In addition they are also empowered to ask questions under section 7 of the Counter Terrorism Act to establish that a passenger is not involved in carrying out acts of terrorism or in the preparation of acts of terrorism. It is inevitable that during the course of our activities some travellers will find themselves subject to Border Force checks. However, I can assure you we have no wish to intervene in anyone’s journey more than is absolutely necessary to fulfil these important duties. On this occasion the operational manager is satisfied the questions asked were legitimate and commensurate with legislation and the officer was carrying out his duties in line with Border Force departmental policy.
Anyone who has met me, knows my age etc, and knows that on the day i was dressed "semi-formal" will probably join me in wondering how the Border Force will ever catch illegal immigrants when they are managed by idiots (by which i mean the superiors of the officer concerned who trained him and help him plan his daily work).
Prague You would have loved the main ITV news item, about the Border Contol force being overworked, they carried out a survey, the results are probally on their web site.
Prague You would have loved the main ITV news item, about the Border Contol force being overworked, they carried out a survey, the results are probally on their web site.
Great tip, will try to retrieve the ITV clip, would be a perfect intro for the letter to my MP. Thanks.
Well I complained. I provided the dialogue verbatim and stressed that my main concern is whether stopping someone with my appearance and passport type is a sensible deployment of their time, when they are constantly complaining of being under-resourced. Finally today (after 75 days) they replied, and only after I threatened to take the issue to my MP if they didn't reply. Here it is...words in bold are my emphasis or addition
They are empowered to ask relevant questions of any passenger in order to establish identity and nationality (that is what a passport does) and whether or not cash or seizable or excisable commodities are being moved illegally into or out of the country. In addition they are also empowered to ask questions under section 7 of the Counter Terrorism Act to establish that a passenger is not involved in carrying out acts of terrorism or in the preparation of acts of terrorism. It is inevitable that during the course of our activities some travellers will find themselves subject to Border Force checks. However, I can assure you we have no wish to intervene in anyone’s journey more than is absolutely necessary to fulfil these important duties. On this occasion the operational manager is satisfied the questions asked were legitimate and commensurate with legislation and the officer was carrying out his duties in line with Border Force departmental policy.
Anyone who has met me, knows my age etc, and knows that on the day i was dressed "semi-formal" will probably join me in wondering how the Border Force will ever catch illegal immigrants when they are managed by idiots (by which i mean the superiors of the officer concerned who trained him and help him plan his daily work).
Comments
Don't be a nonce, The Metro is very balanced.
For it to really be true the following would need to happen.
I whack my details into the EasyJet website when logging in. The same details that I logged in every other time. This time, however due to suspicions about my consultancy being a front for arms-dealing, the details are passed from EasyJet to the Border Force computer which automatically sets a red alert. That Prague Addick is coming through Gatwick!!! As soon as I show my passport at the machine there, another red alert goes off and the diligent Border Force hit squad descend on me and cart me off for questioning.
Sure I can believe that this is how it happens - in Spooks. In reality? Please...
Have you ever stopped to wonder why it doesn't apply to the Tunnel trains? Because for sure for a terrorist, the tunnel is an inviting target.
Up to now I would not even dare mention it on a public forum, lest it encourage Teresa May's goons to impose it there too, for "consistency".
But now it has quietly been announced that across the EU the liquid ban will be lifted on 1 Jan 2016.
Clearly this is a triumph for diplomacy. Agreement has clearly been reached with the terrorists that they will no longer try to make liquid bombs as of this date. Otherwise how it can it be possible that the threat exists on 31 December 2015, but not on 1.1.16? So at least I can safely ask, why did this never apply to Eurostar?
Well, it is amazing how little this ban was discussed in the mainstream media. You have to stray off to more specialised websites to read about this, and then it becomes difficult to know how "expert" they are. However more than once I have read that in practice making a bomb in the supposed way was more or less impossible because it would require up to four people to pile into the plane loo and do very funny things. Which might just not go unnoticed. Now what strikes me is that it might go unnoticed on a large Eurostar train. Yet the ban was never enforced. Why might that be? I can think of two reasons:
1. The French and Belgians simply never believed this threat and refused to wear it (but they have gone along with it at airports so that seems unlikely)
2. The volume of duty free sales at Eurostar is a tiny fraction of the huge volume at airports
What a load of bollocks.
HOWEVER, they have to import a minimum of 25 units and then pay for them to be deactivated and proofed at the London proofing house and sell them as wall hangers for about £245-£350 each, no use to man or beast as a weapon though......well you did ask!! ;o)
I think your point about the proposed Eurostar-Marseille is an interesting one, and possibly worth investigating - though I'd be amazed if it was true and the rail companies weren't already lobbying to ensure no such delays.
I also remember when the City of London had the so-called "Ring of Steel" security. What a laugh that was! All the plod ever did was stop tacky looking motors. Never, ever, did you see them pull up a black cab or a shiny chauffeur-driven jobbie. But if you'd been in the PIRA, that's exactly the way you'd have brought you car bomb into the City isn't it?
1. The Border Force seem intent on making Eurostar as big a pain in the ass as air travel is, rather than concentrating on what we want them to do, stop illegal entry.
2. The UK and US governments use 'the terror threat" to impose unnecessary surveillance on all of us, which I think is important to question and resist.
Regarding point 1 here is the link to the fiasco of the new Eurostar Med. service . Any lobbying by Eurostar has failed, this was announced two years ago and the service starts in May. The French refused to build some big object in Marseille station with a sign saying "UK Border". The Border Force refuse to carry out the checks on the train (which is what happened in Europe pre Schengen). So we end up with this, which basically will kill the service at birth. I understand that this is also another reason for the delay in Deutsche Bahn's direct services through the tunnel to Cologne and Frankfurt. if I do write to my MP I will bundle it up with this wider issue/
Regarding point 2, either this bothers you or it doesn't. It bothers me and I will always try to persuade other people to be bothered too. I guess it's a consequence of having Orwell as a key part of my English Lit lessons at school, and modern European history (especially Eastern Europe after the war) in the history lessons.
Boom, do you mind PMing me your bank account details, your private email correspondence and your full internet history? I'm not doing anything with it, except collecting for surveillance. If you haven't done anything wrong you should be fine with giving me this information.