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Ryan Mason and the players buried in PL squads

This season Ryan Mason has become a Tottenham regular, keeping some expensive signings out of the team (Paulinho was on the bench yesterday for example). As he seems to have come from nowhere, you tend to think of him as a youngster when he is actually 23, and is actually another Obika, someone who's been with Spurs for years, and has had a series of unglamorous loans
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Mason

Last season he was on loan in L1 at Swindon, this year he's a PL regular, which shows the way football has gone, the giant teams accumulating hordes of young players, most of whom (like Obika) will never play for the 1st team. It makes you wonder what sort of talent is currently rotting in the Development Squads of these clubs, and as a youngster whether it's better to get the Cat 1 coaching and facilities of the big boys or the playing time opportunities of a smaller club?

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  • This season Ryan Mason has become a Tottenham regular, keeping some expensive signings out of the team (Paulinho was on the bench yesterday for example). As he seems to have come from nowhere, you tend to think of him as a youngster when he is actually 23, and is actually another Obika, someone who's been with Spurs for years, and has had a series of unglamorous loans
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Mason

    Last season he was on loan in L1 at Swindon, this year he's a PL regular, which shows the way football has gone, the giant teams accumulating hordes of young players, most of whom (like Obika) will never play for the 1st team. It makes you wonder what sort of talent is currently rotting in the Development Squads of these clubs, and as a youngster whether it's better to get the Cat 1 coaching and facilities of the big boys or the playing time opportunities of a smaller club?

    Depends if you love playing or a pound note. Simple.
  • Not necessarily true. Think of yourself as a youngster. If Tottenham come calling and you're at say Scunthorpe, are you really going to then down the opportunity? Maybe the playing time at Scunthorpe is better for you and your career, but you don't know that at the time.
  • If your good enough the teams will always come in regardless.

    The answer is in there, if your at Scunthorpe on £300 a week with first team football or Tottenham offer you £2.5k a week and a possible meaningless Europa league game in 18 months and a premiership sub appearance in 3 years.

    love of game or love of Pound note.

    Me, pound note all day whilst you can as you don't know how long your career will last, the main reason why the small clubs will usually stay small.
  • dizzee said:

    Not necessarily true. Think of yourself as a youngster. If Tottenham come calling and you're at say Scunthorpe, are you really going to then down the opportunity? Maybe the playing time at Scunthorpe is better for you and your career, but you don't know that at the time.

    The problem is that you can end up rotting at the big club, yes your salary will be bigger than that of someone at a smaller club, but if you're good enough you'll be spotted anyway, and get to earn the really big money. The like of Shaw and Chambers show this. Would Ross Barkley have even played for Manchester City if he had joined them as a youngster?
  • dizzee said:

    Not necessarily true. Think of yourself as a youngster. If Tottenham come calling and you're at say Scunthorpe, are you really going to then down the opportunity? Maybe the playing time at Scunthorpe is better for you and your career, but you don't know that at the time.

    This.

    It's terrible so see good talented youth players rotting away and potentially never reaching their potential, but you can see how they end up there.

    Probably still getting decent money, better facilities, more clubs may look to loan the player and better players alongside them. I'm not saying that is a replacement for first team consistant football, but in the heads of the players, they all want to make the most out of the time they have. That is why it is important for teams like us to have a decent youth system which will make them want to stay.
  • You can understand many smaller clubs not bothering with a youth system. Anyone any good will get poached by the big boys for a pittance. Instead, just rely on the PL cast offs...
  • Maybe the question should be directed ta Diego Poyet?
  • iaitch said:

    Maybe the question should be directed ta Diego Poyet?

    Poyet has set himself up for life and is getting game time under a manager he clearly has a lot of respect for. I doubt he has too many regrets.
  • Poyet is currently on loan to a Championship club, this is exactly what the opening poster is talking about, Premier clubs who accumulate lots of players who are loaned out.
  • iaitch said:

    Maybe the question should be directed ta Diego Poyet?

    Poyet made his professional debut in January of this yearHe has since gone on to receive a Player of the Year Award and make his Premier League debut. West Ham have now sent him out on loan to pick up some experience under a manager who they know will look after him. He's hardly drifted into obscurity.
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  • This season Ryan Mason has become a Tottenham regular, keeping some expensive signings out of the team (Paulinho was on the bench yesterday for example). As he seems to have come from nowhere, you tend to think of him as a youngster when he is actually 23, and is actually another Obika, someone who's been with Spurs for years, and has had a series of unglamorous loans
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Mason

    Last season he was on loan in L1 at Swindon, this year he's a PL regular, which shows the way football has gone, the giant teams accumulating hordes of young players, most of whom (like Obika) will never play for the 1st team. It makes you wonder what sort of talent is currently rotting in the Development Squads of these clubs, and as a youngster whether it's better to get the Cat 1 coaching and facilities of the big boys or the playing time opportunities of a smaller club?

    Doesn't the Ryan Mason example suggest that it is better to go to a big club, or even Spurs, than a lower league club.

    He got a good wage no doubt, plenty of game time on loan and is now playing in the premier league.

    Yes, for every Mason there is an Obika but he also got plenty of game time, a good wage for 6 or 7 years and is now playing in league 1 which is no disgrace. Scored again on Saturday and could be promoted with Swindon.
  • The difference between Diego Poyet at Charlton and Joe blogs at Scunthorpe is levels. An 18 year old at Scunthorpe could play every game and hardly be noticed. If given the opportunity at the top level you take it and probably get loaned out to a 2nd tier side to make your name.

    If you are already making a name for yourself like poyet was I say you continue to do so and then either head upwards with your current club or having built a reputation, earn a move upwards. As an 18/20 year old the difference from 4th division to premier league is a no brainer from a money perspective. At championship and premier league a few more factors need to be considered
  • MrLargo said:

    iaitch said:

    Maybe the question should be directed ta Diego Poyet?

    Poyet made his professional debut in January of this yearHe has since gone on to receive a Player of the Year Award and make his Premier League debut. West Ham have now sent him out on loan to pick up some experience under a manager who they know will look after him. He's hardly drifted into obscurity.
    Poyet was playing Championship football with us but decided to try his hand at the Premiership, he's now loaned out playing Championship football so the only benefit he's getting is a bigger wage packet.

    As I said ask the player what he wants more, a big contract or to play regular first team football. Its the same as asking people on here do you want a big pay packet or a job you enjoy doing?

    Only the person involved can answer that.

  • I saw Ryan Mason at Millwall. I thought he initially looked better than Kane at first, albeit without an ability to impose himself on the game. He is a player who excels in a cohesive unit, something not respected or noticed often in English football.

    It took Pochetino, someone who believes in hard working cohesive Latin football to play him. Leon Brittain > Martinez, Mason > Pochettino. Let's hope Tom Carroll will get good game time at Swansea.
  • There are many young(ish) players who are on very lucrative contracts sitting on the sidelines at 'big' clubs either lacking the skills or the ambition to make it to the very top of their profession.
    I suspect that many are happy to take the money for a few good years, stash it away for the future, and then, when all hope of a top class career is gone, a switch to a lower league club on a decent wage will see them all right until they come close to retirement. I am not saying that the players named here fall into that category, but Dawkins and Obika, both late of Spurs, played few if any first team games at Spurs and are now playing at a decent level a division or two lower. Both made the move in their mid twenties. As is well known, Chelsea at the minute have some twenty six players out on loan. This farming and stockpiling of players is surely bad for the game.
    I recently saw Bamford playing for Middlebrough. He was by far the most skilful player on the pitch. He is on loan to 'Boro from Chelsea. He has little or no chance of ever becoming a regular first teamer at Chelsea. 'Boro get a potential promotion gaining player on the cheap, Chelsea are able to manipulate the career of a fine player. Not good on either count.
  • My cousin who is on the books at WBA and has played a couple of cup games and come on as sub a few times has just gone on loan to Scunthorpe for 1 month.
    He played the full game Saturday, ok they let a 2 goal lead go but it will be good to play regularly.
  • When Chelsea poached two Leeds youngsters they eventually had to pay Bates around £5 million in compo.
    The two players Michael Woods and Tom Taiwo were both released after 4 or 5 years and are now playing for Hartlepool and Falkirk . It will be interesting to see how Kasey Palmer progresses.
  • iaitch said:

    MrLargo said:

    iaitch said:

    Maybe the question should be directed ta Diego Poyet?

    Poyet made his professional debut in January of this yearHe has since gone on to receive a Player of the Year Award and make his Premier League debut. West Ham have now sent him out on loan to pick up some experience under a manager who they know will look after him. He's hardly drifted into obscurity.
    Poyet was playing Championship football with us but decided to try his hand at the Premiership, he's now loaned out playing Championship football so the only benefit he's getting is a bigger wage packet.

    As I said ask the player what he wants more, a big contract or to play regular first team football. Its the same as asking people on here do you want a big pay packet or a job you enjoy doing?

    Only the person involved can answer that.

    So really it's worked out brilliantly for Diego. Playing at the same level as before only on far more money that he'd earn at Charlton, knowing that if he performs at Huddersfield there's potentially a Premiership place waiting for him
  • But I thought he left to play Premiership football? But its really about increasing his wages.
  • It's a strange football world where some clubs could get promotion due to loan players from PL clubs, whereas we rely on loan players from Standard Liege instead :-)

    My sort of point was that the player at a club like Chelsea or Spurs, hardly playing and then getting released added 22-23 might have been well paid, but at a fraction of the level of the big stars, and will have lost much of the drive of players who've played regularly. Probably not a good example currently, but someone like Lallana who's played regularly for Soton and got his move at 25, will be on the sort of serious money that the Dawkins and Obikas can only dream of.
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  • When Chelsea poached two Leeds youngsters they eventually had to pay Bates around £5 million in compo.
    The two players Michael Woods and Tom Taiwo were both released after 4 or 5 years and are now playing for Hartlepool and Falkirk . It will be interesting to see how Kasey Palmer progresses.

    So, they get say, £3k a week for 5 years at Chelsea or they turn it down, miss the boats and earn £700 a week for 10 years at Leeds or other lower league teams wehere teams can go bust and one tackle can end your career.

    £780'000 or £364.000

    You can see why many take the Pound note route.

    No brainer imo, as much as I love football, I love my family more and theyre security would be at the forefront.

  • Surely one tackle could end your career in any division?
  • iaitch said:

    Surely one tackle could end your career in any division?

    One tackle with a fat contract to be paid up or one with a smaller contract to be paid up ...... You decide
  • Also discussed here:

    forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/60781/jonathan-obika-sam-hutchinson-et-al-time-to-move-on#latest

    Wenger must be on here because I asked for Campbell and he sent us Coquelin instead ;-)
  • ColinTat said:

    I saw Ryan Mason at Millwall. I thought he initially looked better than Kane at first, albeit without an ability to impose himself on the game. He is a player who excels in a cohesive unit, something not respected or noticed often in English football.

    It took Pochetino, someone who believes in hard working cohesive Latin football to play him. Leon Brittain > Martinez, Mason > Pochettino. Let's hope Tom Carroll will get good game time at Swansea.

    Wasn't too sure of him at the time, but have caught glimpses of him this season with Spurs and appears to have developed a great deal further.

  • Same discussion we have regularly really, but if they are out on loan they get the best of both worlds - silly money and playing time. Tough being a footballer isn't it...
  • 99% of all players will find their deserved level.
    Ask Sam appiah, mark tivey, mark debolla, tamar tuna and countless others if they were offered the same opportunity as Sean Mcginty when Man Utd showed an interest, would they have turned it down?
  • One Greedy Bastard
  • The only way to change this would be to level the playing field by limiting every club to a fixed number of players.
    Strangely given their commitment to the free market, this is how American Football works
  • Southbank said:

    The only way to change this would be to level the playing field by limiting every club to a fixed number of players.

    25 isn't it?
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