The have and have not thing is perhaps no better shown than the difference between London and the rest of the country. Places outside of London have many things to offer people, but infrastructure is definitely not great away from the capital. Public transport, for example, is frankly shocking in many towns outside the major cities and even in them it often isn't great. None-the-less, the UK is a small place and nowhere is truly far from London, meaning there's no real reason why a lot of businesses can't setup outside the southeast and still do business in the SE, especially with modern communications options. There is certainly a substantial amount of unemployed and certain towns are dying on there arses now a lot of the traditional industries some of these towns were founded on have moved abroad.
There's a lot of pieces to the jigsaw, but doing more to encourage people and businesses to move away from the SE would be a decent start.
I know we have regional development agencies, but they can only do so much
We don't anymore. They were abolished a few years ago.
My mistake. I thought such bodies existed. Were they unsuccessful or deemed an excess cost?
Some were better than others but generally coordinated regional developments more positively than in the past. A good example of the public and private sector working well together. Flushed away in a combination of 'not invented here' syndrome and the 'all Quangos are evil' rhetoric in the early years of the coalition! Regional development strategy is a complete mess at present.
They were a victim of the localism agenda of the current Government which dislikes regionalism (preferring city based initiatives).
The two RDAs that I had dealings with - London and North West - were both pretty good. The LDA delivered the land for the Olympics on time and did a decent job in land assembly for Wembley and some other projects. The NWDA delivered a number of good housing schemes. I don't know much about the other RDAs though.
They were a victim of the localism agenda of the current Government which dislikes regionalism (preferring city based initiatives).
The two RDAs that I had dealings with - London and North West - were both pretty good. The LDA delivered the land for the Olympics on time and did a decent job in land assembly for Wembley and some other projects. The NWDA delivered a number of good housing schemes. I don't know much about the other RDAs though.
When I worked on a supply chain project in a previous company, the European regional development agencies were really good to approach. I booked the regional authority for the Barca region in Spain and with them the port of Barcelona. I know it is slightly separate from the issue, but it seems on the continent they are given a lot of responsibility to promote inward investment, and we don't even have any
Trues, but in Spain they have well-defined regions and proper regional government which provides the democratic accountability that was lacking with the RDAs here.
Just reading this thread depresses me. Been a very intriguing thread, with many knowledgable posts.
Me and the other half rented for three years, until our landlord shafted us. Since been living with parents, saving as much as possible. But the average deposit is 25k/30k isn't it?
If you want to stop exploitative foreigner owners buying property to rent at out of reach prices, then introduce rent controll. It worked in New York. The knock effect is house prices would drop as buy to let would not be as attractive.
There is rent control in France too. Some kind of policy like this would be the solution. You can't blame the investors: they are playing by the rules of the game. If the rules aren't fair then change them. You can't change the fact that people will want to make a profit and that perhaps others will lose out. Anyone in the position to do so would do so themselves (even if they protest that they wouldn't, they would). That's the capitalist world we live in but it should be regulated.
I watched the programme on repeat this evening. Astonishing. Getting UK TV into my home has really opened my eyes up to how much the country has changed in the last 10 years.
Where I live, people baulk at an asking price of 150,000 euros for a 3 bedroom house with a small garden.
If you want to stop exploitative foreigner owners buying property to rent at out of reach prices, then introduce rent controll. It worked in New York. The knock effect is house prices would drop as buy to let would not be as attractive.
There is rent control in France too. Some kind of policy like this would be the solution. You can't blame the investors: they are playing by the rules of the game. If the rules aren't fair then change them. You can't change the fact that people will want to make a profit and that perhaps others will lose out. Anyone in the position to do so would do so themselves (even if they protest that they wouldn't, they would). That's the capitalist world we live in but it should be regulated.
I watched the programme on repeat this evening. Astonishing. Getting UK TV into my home has really opened my eyes up to how much the country has changed in the last 10 years.
Where I live, people baulk at an asking price of 150,000 euros for a 3 bedroom house with a small garden.
But in fairness there are plenty of parts of the UK where that also applies JM.
If you want to stop exploitative foreigner owners buying property to rent at out of reach prices, then introduce rent controll. It worked in New York. The knock effect is house prices would drop as buy to let would not be as attractive.
There is rent control in France too. Some kind of policy like this would be the solution. You can't blame the investors: they are playing by the rules of the game. If the rules aren't fair then change them. You can't change the fact that people will want to make a profit and that perhaps others will lose out. Anyone in the position to do so would do so themselves (even if they protest that they wouldn't, they would). That's the capitalist world we live in but it should be regulated.
I watched the programme on repeat this evening. Astonishing. Getting UK TV into my home has really opened my eyes up to how much the country has changed in the last 10 years.
Where I live, people baulk at an asking price of 150,000 euros for a 3 bedroom house with a small garden.
But in fairness there are plenty of parts of the UK where that also applies JM.
Its ironic that one of the ads that popped up whilst reading this thread was for a new build development in Lancaster. Interesting to note that they are offering a 4 bed semi for under £300k. I bet the same house in the S/E or N Kent area would be more like £500k.But why should that be so ?? I loaf of bread is (roughly the same ) in Bexley as it is in Manchester, same as a pint of milk. Even luxury cars, like a Jaguar or BMW would cost you the same wherever in the country you are, so why should a house be any different.
They should move the financial centre to Liverpool and parliament to Birmingham. loads of other industries ans businesses will have to move and ta-da! A readjustment of property prices. Works for most other developed countries to split these things up, all reachable in the UK quite easily. Worked for the BBC etc.
As plenty have noted, the economic dominance of London is remarkable but the lack of labour mobility compared to say the US (where distances are far greater) is curious.
Given many low/average paid jobs are quite mobile (eg teaching, police, retail etc.), I'm surprised more people don't move even just 50-100 miles from London for a better quality of life - the South-East is far from being the nicest part of the country.
If you want to stop exploitative foreigner owners buying property to rent at out of reach prices, then introduce rent controll. It worked in New York. The knock effect is house prices would drop as buy to let would not be as attractive.
There is rent control in France too. Some kind of policy like this would be the solution. You can't blame the investors: they are playing by the rules of the game. If the rules aren't fair then change them. You can't change the fact that people will want to make a profit and that perhaps others will lose out. Anyone in the position to do so would do so themselves (even if they protest that they wouldn't, they would). That's the capitalist world we live in but it should be regulated.
I watched the programme on repeat this evening. Astonishing. Getting UK TV into my home has really opened my eyes up to how much the country has changed in the last 10 years.
Where I live, people baulk at an asking price of 150,000 euros for a 3 bedroom house with a small garden.
But in fairness there are plenty of parts of the UK where that also applies JM.
Its ironic that one of the ads that popped up whilst reading this thread was for a new build development in Lancaster. Interesting to note that they are offering a 4 bed semi for under £300k. I bet the same house in the S/E or N Kent area would be more like £500k.But why should that be so ?? I loaf of bread is (roughly the same ) in Bexley as it is in Manchester, same as a pint of milk. Even luxury cars, like a Jaguar or BMW would cost you the same wherever in the country you are, so why should a house be any different.
....Because land somewhere like Lancaster is essentially free (relatively at least) and thus house prices won't be materially different from building/replacement cost.
If you want to stop exploitative foreigner owners buying property to rent at out of reach prices, then introduce rent controll. It worked in New York. The knock effect is house prices would drop as buy to let would not be as attractive.
There is rent control in France too. Some kind of policy like this would be the solution. You can't blame the investors: they are playing by the rules of the game. If the rules aren't fair then change them. You can't change the fact that people will want to make a profit and that perhaps others will lose out. Anyone in the position to do so would do so themselves (even if they protest that they wouldn't, they would). That's the capitalist world we live in but it should be regulated.
I watched the programme on repeat this evening. Astonishing. Getting UK TV into my home has really opened my eyes up to how much the country has changed in the last 10 years.
Where I live, people baulk at an asking price of 150,000 euros for a 3 bedroom house with a small garden.
But in fairness there are plenty of parts of the UK where that also applies JM.
Its ironic that one of the ads that popped up whilst reading this thread was for a new build development in Lancaster. Interesting to note that they are offering a 4 bed semi for under £300k. I bet the same house in the S/E or N Kent area would be more like £500k.But why should that be so ?? I loaf of bread is (roughly the same ) in Bexley as it is in Manchester, same as a pint of milk. Even luxury cars, like a Jaguar or BMW would cost you the same wherever in the country you are, so why should a house be any different.
One has an outside toilet. That alone is worth the extra 200k.
I live in the South East. I can leave my house and get to Kings Cross within 45 minutes from my door. In fact I work in West London (Marylebone) and do the full journey in under an hour in the morning. There are houses on my road (3 bedroom good size) with gardens valued at under 200k still.
It's not Blackheath (despite my name) or Chelsea. Its part of the Medway towns. I have never been burgled, or even seen any real crime issues, although I know it happens. The worst issue I've had to face is dogs mess in the alley near my house. Its a bit run down, and the schools need improving but that's why it's cheap.
Whilst I accept it's near impossible to buy in London these days. It's not impossible to buy somewhere under 200k that a family could live in and still commute to London on a daily basis.
If you want to stop exploitative foreigner owners buying property to rent at out of reach prices, then introduce rent controll. It worked in New York. The knock effect is house prices would drop as buy to let would not be as attractive.
There is rent control in France too. Some kind of policy like this would be the solution. You can't blame the investors: they are playing by the rules of the game. If the rules aren't fair then change them. You can't change the fact that people will want to make a profit and that perhaps others will lose out. Anyone in the position to do so would do so themselves (even if they protest that they wouldn't, they would). That's the capitalist world we live in but it should be regulated.
I watched the programme on repeat this evening. Astonishing. Getting UK TV into my home has really opened my eyes up to how much the country has changed in the last 10 years.
Where I live, people baulk at an asking price of 150,000 euros for a 3 bedroom house with a small garden.
But in fairness there are plenty of parts of the UK where that also applies JM.
Its ironic that one of the ads that popped up whilst reading this thread was for a new build development in Lancaster. Interesting to note that they are offering a 4 bed semi for under £300k. I bet the same house in the S/E or N Kent area would be more like £500k.But why should that be so ?? I loaf of bread is (roughly the same ) in Bexley as it is in Manchester, same as a pint of milk. Even luxury cars, like a Jaguar or BMW would cost you the same wherever in the country you are, so why should a house be any different.
I went to uni in Lancaster, you couldn't pay me to live there again. As for the difference in prices, people are willing to pay £500k for a semi detached in London and they aren't up North. The nearest city to Lancaster is probably Preston which is 30 minutes away and hardly a hot bed of employment. Manchester's probably an hour away.
They should move the financial centre to Liverpool and parliament to Birmingham. loads of other industries ans businesses will have to move and ta-da! A readjustment of property prices. Works for most other developed countries to split these things up, all reachable in the UK quite easily. Worked for the BBC etc.
People living near BBC media city in Salford have been complaining that their presence has increased house prices in that area...
They should move the financial centre to Liverpool and parliament to Birmingham. loads of other industries ans businesses will have to move and ta-da! A readjustment of property prices. Works for most other developed countries to split these things up, all reachable in the UK quite easily. Worked for the BBC etc.
Imagine if Scouse became the default 'posh banker accent'
They should move the financial centre to Liverpool and parliament to Birmingham. loads of other industries ans businesses will have to move and ta-da! A readjustment of property prices. Works for most other developed countries to split these things up, all reachable in the UK quite easily. Worked for the BBC etc.
Imagine if Scouse became the default 'posh banker accent'
Yes but if the scousers did all the banking wouldn't the wheels fall off of every business?
They should move the financial centre to Liverpool and parliament to Birmingham. loads of other industries ans businesses will have to move and ta-da! A readjustment of property prices. Works for most other developed countries to split these things up, all reachable in the UK quite easily. Worked for the BBC etc.
Imagine if Scouse became the default 'posh banker accent'
Yes but if the scousers did all the banking wouldn't the wheels fall off of every business?
The whole somewhere to live thing in London is sick, frighteningly and depressingly so, and I am mightily pissed off that circumstances have made me complicit in the sickness. What can I say? I bought my terraced house in Lee when my family grew and I moved out of my flat in Lee. My story was commonplace at the time because there was a realistic relationship between savings, earnings, and property prices. It has meant going without stuff other people spend on like holidays, but I am not a great fan of an annual holiday in the sun anyway. What makes me sick is how much my house has grown in 'value' as I watch neighbouring properties being bought and sold, and I feel like the blimmin aristocracy compared to most. However the value of the house is unreal because to get somewhere else to live in Lee would be the same cost as the 'value' of the house. The money my place is worth is meaningless unless I moved to somewhere I don't want to be, away from what I know and like. Anyway my very secure and comfortable position has come from a lifetimes work, but I feel the younger generation will not have the chance I have had and somehow I feel it is my fault. Just like benefiting from free education whilst others, my son included, rack up 9K a year in tuition fees alone. I don't feel smug about my good fortune having a modest terraced house, I wish everybody else could have one too, and it is down to the loss of council housing, no house building, and a combination of stupid policies that has led to this crisis. London has always been about, jobs, housing and transport, but it is now becoming a divided society where the posh expect their cleaners to travel in from Sittingbourne each day to 'do' for them. Roll on a property price crash where values halve at the very least.
Have any of you seen what they're building at Kidbrooke, and the prices they have the temerity to ask...and more shockingly, get?
The whole somewhere to live thing in London is sick, frighteningly and depressingly so, and I am mightily pissed off that circumstances have made me complicit in the sickness. What can I say? I bought my terraced house in Lee when my family grew and I moved out of my flat in Lee. My story was commonplace at the time because there was a realistic relationship between savings, earnings, and property prices. It has meant going without stuff other people spend on like holidays, but I am not a great fan of an annual holiday in the sun anyway. What makes me sick is how much my house has grown in 'value' as I watch neighbouring properties being bought and sold, and I feel like the blimmin aristocracy compared to most. However the value of the house is unreal because to get somewhere else to live in Lee would be the same cost as the 'value' of the house. The money my place is worth is meaningless unless I moved to somewhere I don't want to be, away from what I know and like. Anyway my very secure and comfortable position has come from a lifetimes work, but I feel the younger generation will not have the chance I have had and somehow I feel it is my fault. Just like benefiting from free education whilst others, my son included, rack up 9K a year in tuition fees alone. I don't feel smug about my good fortune having a modest terraced house, I wish everybody else could have one too, and it is down to the loss of council housing, no house building, and a combination of stupid policies that has led to this crisis. London has always been about, jobs, housing and transport, but it is now becoming a divided society where the posh expect their cleaners to travel in from Sittingbourne each day to 'do' for them. Roll on a property price crash where values halve at the very least.
Have any of you seen what they're building at Kidbrooke, and the prices they have the temerity to ask...and more shockingly, get?
Exactly, as others have pointed out a massive spike in house prices is only good if you can cash out and then not buy another house, at least not in the South Eastern UK, or if you are going to use the profit for other things and rent.
As for a property price crash a la 1990s, well, you can't rule it out but the London boom is being fuelled by the richest people on the planet and their cash is not going to run out anytime soon!
The whole somewhere to live thing in London is sick, frighteningly and depressingly so, and I am mightily pissed off that circumstances have made me complicit in the sickness. What can I say? I bought my terraced house in Lee when my family grew and I moved out of my flat in Lee. My story was commonplace at the time because there was a realistic relationship between savings, earnings, and property prices. It has meant going without stuff other people spend on like holidays, but I am not a great fan of an annual holiday in the sun anyway. What makes me sick is how much my house has grown in 'value' as I watch neighbouring properties being bought and sold, and I feel like the blimmin aristocracy compared to most. However the value of the house is unreal because to get somewhere else to live in Lee would be the same cost as the 'value' of the house. The money my place is worth is meaningless unless I moved to somewhere I don't want to be, away from what I know and like. Anyway my very secure and comfortable position has come from a lifetimes work, but I feel the younger generation will not have the chance I have had and somehow I feel it is my fault. Just like benefiting from free education whilst others, my son included, rack up 9K a year in tuition fees alone. I don't feel smug about my good fortune having a modest terraced house, I wish everybody else could have one too, and it is down to the loss of council housing, no house building, and a combination of stupid policies that has led to this crisis. London has always been about, jobs, housing and transport, but it is now becoming a divided society where the posh expect their cleaners to travel in from Sittingbourne each day to 'do' for them. Roll on a property price crash where values halve at the very least.
Have any of you seen what they're building at Kidbrooke, and the prices they have the temerity to ask...and more shockingly, get?
Nice post Seth. When I started this thread I did so because I don't own and it will probably be some time until I do own. However, there's no way in the world people should feel complicit or guilty because they own, and have seen the values of their properties rocket to the detriment of others getting a shot.
I would even say that to own 2 properties is something I have no issues with. Everybody is looking after their families at the end of the day and I would probably do the same.
What I do struggle with, is the culture of the modern day property market. If you watched the show, foreign/domestic owners with 4/5 houses. Suddenly everyone is a project manager because they buy to let and do up a house or houses. My burning issue is that I was born in south east London, grown up here all my life and have the pleasure of paying someone else's mortgage. I'm ok(ish) with that because at the end of the day I have a roof over my head.
But it just seems like the whole system is one that is set up in such a way, that if we are not careful, could be beyond redress in the not too distant (probably already is).
You made a good point about tuition fees above. My argument is that if someone completes their a-levels and wants to go into university and their parents can't contribute, then that person is saddled with debt from a young age. Yes, they have a chance that they can earn decent money in later life, but the jobs market is also competitive. 1000s of graduates flood the market every year, those that don't hit decent grad schemes are then left to take an entry level job, that doesn't pay as well. There is nothing wrong with that, but if you have then spent 30k on University and perhaps have to accept a lower starting salary, you're left asking, what was the point in the first place.
I know for a fact that there are people leaving uni coming onto the job market taking jobs that don't require a degree. Again, I'm not saying those jobs aren't worthwhile and I'm pleased the government promote apprenticeships in all sorts of sectors. IMO if you pay your taxes and contribute to society whatever job you do doesn't matter. I'm just linking the fact that whatever route, the chance of owning seems very far for a lot of people at the mo when you look at it like this.
And then, they say you've got to save for a pension because the state pension is on its knees.
As Seth says above, a combination of all this is very hard to fight against.
Most BTL landlords have interest-only mortgages so they are renting the property as much as the tenants are.
Tenants don't own a rising asset though. One that they can't afford to buy simply because they can't raise the deposit or show sufficient income to be offered a mortgage.
And BTL landlords are making a profit by charging a rent that more than covers that interest only mortgage.
Most BTL landlords have interest-only mortgages so they are renting the property as much as the tenants are.
Tenants don't own a rising asset though. One that they can't afford to buy simply because they can't raise the deposit or show sufficient income to be offered a mortgage.
And BTL landlords are making a profit by charging a rent that more than covers that interest only mortgage.
THIS. Also, I wonder how many of the recent btl landlords declare the income and also the capital gains when they eventually sell. As a financial advisor I find too many people believe that a btl property is the best thing since sliced bread, and will invest in one over & above a pension or an ISA - both of which are more tax efficient & now much more flexible.
The whole somewhere to live thing in London is sick, frighteningly and depressingly so, and I am mightily pissed off that circumstances have made me complicit in the sickness. What can I say? I bought my terraced house in Lee when my family grew and I moved out of my flat in Lee. My story was commonplace at the time because there was a realistic relationship between savings, earnings, and property prices. It has meant going without stuff other people spend on like holidays, but I am not a great fan of an annual holiday in the sun anyway. What makes me sick is how much my house has grown in 'value' as I watch neighbouring properties being bought and sold, and I feel like the blimmin aristocracy compared to most. However the value of the house is unreal because to get somewhere else to live in Lee would be the same cost as the 'value' of the house. The money my place is worth is meaningless unless I moved to somewhere I don't want to be, away from what I know and like. Anyway my very secure and comfortable position has come from a lifetimes work, but I feel the younger generation will not have the chance I have had and somehow I feel it is my fault. Just like benefiting from free education whilst others, my son included, rack up 9K a year in tuition fees alone. I don't feel smug about my good fortune having a modest terraced house, I wish everybody else could have one too, and it is down to the loss of council housing, no house building, and a combination of stupid policies that has led to this crisis. London has always been about, jobs, housing and transport, but it is now becoming a divided society where the posh expect their cleaners to travel in from Sittingbourne each day to 'do' for them. Roll on a property price crash where values halve at the very least.
Have any of you seen what they're building at Kidbrooke, and the prices they have the temerity to ask...and more shockingly, get?
Nice post Seth. When I started this thread I did so because I don't own and it will probably be some time until I do own. However, there's no way in the world people should feel complicit or guilty because they own, and have seen the values of their properties rocket to the detriment of others getting a shot.
I would even say that to own 2 properties is something I have no issues with. Everybody is looking after their families at the end of the day and I would probably do the same.
What I do struggle with, is the culture of the modern day property market. If you watched the show, foreign/domestic owners with 4/5 houses. Suddenly everyone is a project manager because they buy to let and do up a house or houses. My burning issue is that I was born in south east London, grown up here all my life and have the pleasure of paying someone else's mortgage. I'm ok(ish) with that because at the end of the day I have a roof over my head.
But it just seems like the whole system is one that is set up in such a way, that if we are not careful, could be beyond redress in the not too distant (probably already is).
You made a good point about tuition fees above. My argument is that if someone completes their a-levels and wants to go into university and their parents can't contribute, then that person is saddled with debt from a young age. Yes, they have a chance that they can earn decent money in later life, but the jobs market is also competitive. 1000s of graduates flood the market every year, those that don't hit decent grad schemes are then left to take an entry level job, that doesn't pay as well. There is nothing wrong with that, but if you have then spent 30k on University and perhaps have to accept a lower starting salary, you're left asking, what was the point in the first place.
I know for a fact that there are people leaving uni coming onto the job market taking jobs that don't require a degree. Again, I'm not saying those jobs aren't worthwhile and I'm pleased the government promote apprenticeships in all sorts of sectors. IMO if you pay your taxes and contribute to society whatever job you do doesn't matter. I'm just linking the fact that whatever route, the chance of owning seems very far for a lot of people at the mo when you look at it like this.
And then, they say you've got to save for a pension because the state pension is on its knees.
As Seth says above, a combination of all this is very hard to fight against.
You could argue that nobody has a 'right' to buy a house where they born / brought up. Why should anyone expect to be able to do that?
We live in a global economy, thousands upon thousands up sticks and move to where they can find work & can afford. Just look at London now, how wonderfully diverse and enriched our culture is with a melting pot of different communities and outlooks.
Why should we sit by and moan about foreign investment? Why aren't we doing the same, moving abroad, finding better places to live & work, expanding our horizons and enriching other cultures with our own?
We seem to want to stick in our own bubble, stay with what we know, perhaps we should be as mobile as others that come to London and seek out opportunities in Europe, Americas, Asia etc, perhaps we'd be much better for it.
I have friends in San Francisco, New York, Abu Dhabi, Dubai, Perth, Brisbane, Budapest, Holland, Sweden....none would return.
You need to be more outward looking.....I've only lived in SE9 for 31 years....I may even move to Kent one day.....
The whole somewhere to live thing in London is sick, frighteningly and depressingly so, and I am mightily pissed off that circumstances have made me complicit in the sickness. What can I say? I bought my terraced house in Lee when my family grew and I moved out of my flat in Lee. My story was commonplace at the time because there was a realistic relationship between savings, earnings, and property prices. It has meant going without stuff other people spend on like holidays, but I am not a great fan of an annual holiday in the sun anyway. What makes me sick is how much my house has grown in 'value' as I watch neighbouring properties being bought and sold, and I feel like the blimmin aristocracy compared to most. However the value of the house is unreal because to get somewhere else to live in Lee would be the same cost as the 'value' of the house. The money my place is worth is meaningless unless I moved to somewhere I don't want to be, away from what I know and like. Anyway my very secure and comfortable position has come from a lifetimes work, but I feel the younger generation will not have the chance I have had and somehow I feel it is my fault. Just like benefiting from free education whilst others, my son included, rack up 9K a year in tuition fees alone. I don't feel smug about my good fortune having a modest terraced house, I wish everybody else could have one too, and it is down to the loss of council housing, no house building, and a combination of stupid policies that has led to this crisis. London has always been about, jobs, housing and transport, but it is now becoming a divided society where the posh expect their cleaners to travel in from Sittingbourne each day to 'do' for them. Roll on a property price crash where values halve at the very least.
Have any of you seen what they're building at Kidbrooke, and the prices they have the temerity to ask...and more shockingly, get?
Nice post Seth. When I started this thread I did so because I don't own and it will probably be some time until I do own. However, there's no way in the world people should feel complicit or guilty because they own, and have seen the values of their properties rocket to the detriment of others getting a shot.
I would even say that to own 2 properties is something I have no issues with. Everybody is looking after their families at the end of the day and I would probably do the same.
What I do struggle with, is the culture of the modern day property market. If you watched the show, foreign/domestic owners with 4/5 houses. Suddenly everyone is a project manager because they buy to let and do up a house or houses. My burning issue is that I was born in south east London, grown up here all my life and have the pleasure of paying someone else's mortgage. I'm ok(ish) with that because at the end of the day I have a roof over my head.
But it just seems like the whole system is one that is set up in such a way, that if we are not careful, could be beyond redress in the not too distant (probably already is).
You made a good point about tuition fees above. My argument is that if someone completes their a-levels and wants to go into university and their parents can't contribute, then that person is saddled with debt from a young age. Yes, they have a chance that they can earn decent money in later life, but the jobs market is also competitive. 1000s of graduates flood the market every year, those that don't hit decent grad schemes are then left to take an entry level job, that doesn't pay as well. There is nothing wrong with that, but if you have then spent 30k on University and perhaps have to accept a lower starting salary, you're left asking, what was the point in the first place.
I know for a fact that there are people leaving uni coming onto the job market taking jobs that don't require a degree. Again, I'm not saying those jobs aren't worthwhile and I'm pleased the government promote apprenticeships in all sorts of sectors. IMO if you pay your taxes and contribute to society whatever job you do doesn't matter. I'm just linking the fact that whatever route, the chance of owning seems very far for a lot of people at the mo when you look at it like this.
And then, they say you've got to save for a pension because the state pension is on its knees.
As Seth says above, a combination of all this is very hard to fight against.
You could argue that nobody has a 'right' to buy a house where they born / brought up. Why should anyone expect to be able to do that?
We live in a global economy, thousands upon thousands up sticks and move to where they can find work & can afford. Just look at London now, how wonderfully diverse and enriched our culture is with a melting pot of different communities and outlooks.
Why should we sit by and moan about foreign investment? Why aren't we doing the same, moving abroad, finding better places to live & work, expanding our horizons and enriching other cultures with our own?
We seem to want to stick in our own bubble, stay with what we know, perhaps we should be as mobile as others that come to London and seek out opportunities in Europe, Americas, Asia etc, perhaps we'd be much better for it.
I have friends in San Francisco, New York, Abu Dhabi, Dubai, Perth, Brisbane, Budapest, Holland, Sweden....none would return.
You need to be more outward looking.....I've only lived in SE9 for 31 years....I may even move to Kent one day.....
I don't think anyone has a 'right' to buy anywhere. I was just pointing out that having be born and brought up in south east London, I am happy here. My family, friends and more importantly my football club are here;-)
What I am saying is that because of the fact house prices have rocketed in these areas, combined with other socioeconomic factors, government policy, greed, whatever you want to term it, buying a house in a place you've grown up and built a life in, is harder to achieve.
I have looked outward as well, I grew up in se4, but have also domiciled in se13 and se10 with a very brief stint in the ct postcode. If that's not expanding the bubble then I don't know what is!
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There's a lot of pieces to the jigsaw, but doing more to encourage people and businesses to move away from the SE would be a decent start.
The two RDAs that I had dealings with - London and North West - were both pretty good. The LDA delivered the land for the Olympics on time and did a decent job in land assembly for Wembley and some other projects. The NWDA delivered a number of good housing schemes. I don't know much about the other RDAs though.
Me and the other half rented for three years, until our landlord shafted us. Since been living with parents, saving as much as possible. But the average deposit is 25k/30k isn't it?
I watched the programme on repeat this evening. Astonishing. Getting UK TV into my home has really opened my eyes up to how much the country has changed in the last 10 years.
Where I live, people baulk at an asking price of 150,000 euros for a 3 bedroom house with a small garden.
Its ironic that one of the ads that popped up whilst reading this thread was for a new build development in Lancaster. Interesting to note that they are offering a 4 bed semi for under £300k. I bet the same house in the S/E or N Kent area would be more like £500k.But why should that be so ?? I loaf of bread is (roughly the same ) in Bexley as it is in Manchester, same as a pint of milk. Even luxury cars, like a Jaguar or BMW would cost you the same wherever in the country you are, so why should a house be any different.
Given many low/average paid jobs are quite mobile (eg teaching, police, retail etc.), I'm surprised more people don't move even just 50-100 miles from London for a better quality of life - the South-East is far from being the nicest part of the country.
It's not Blackheath (despite my name) or Chelsea. Its part of the Medway towns. I have never been burgled, or even seen any real crime issues, although I know it happens. The worst issue I've had to face is dogs mess in the alley near my house. Its a bit run down, and the schools need improving but that's why it's cheap.
Whilst I accept it's near impossible to buy in London these days. It's not impossible to buy somewhere under 200k that a family could live in and still commute to London on a daily basis.
What can I say? I bought my terraced house in Lee when my family grew and I moved out of my flat in Lee. My story was commonplace at the time because there was a realistic relationship between savings, earnings, and property prices. It has meant going without stuff other people spend on like holidays, but I am not a great fan of an annual holiday in the sun anyway.
What makes me sick is how much my house has grown in 'value' as I watch neighbouring properties being bought and sold, and I feel like the blimmin aristocracy compared to most. However the value of the house is unreal because to get somewhere else to live in Lee would be the same cost as the 'value' of the house. The money my place is worth is meaningless unless I moved to somewhere I don't want to be, away from what I know and like.
Anyway my very secure and comfortable position has come from a lifetimes work, but I feel the younger generation will not have the chance I have had and somehow I feel it is my fault. Just like benefiting from free education whilst others, my son included, rack up 9K a year in tuition fees alone.
I don't feel smug about my good fortune having a modest terraced house, I wish everybody else could have one too, and it is down to the loss of council housing, no house building, and a combination of stupid policies that has led to this crisis.
London has always been about, jobs, housing and transport, but it is now becoming a divided society where the posh expect their cleaners to travel in from Sittingbourne each day to 'do' for them.
Roll on a property price crash where values halve at the very least.
Have any of you seen what they're building at Kidbrooke, and the prices they have the temerity to ask...and more shockingly, get?
As for a property price crash a la 1990s, well, you can't rule it out but the London boom is being fuelled by the richest people on the planet and their cash is not going to run out anytime soon!
I would even say that to own 2 properties is something I have no issues with. Everybody is looking after their families at the end of the day and I would probably do the same.
What I do struggle with, is the culture of the modern day property market. If you watched the show, foreign/domestic owners with 4/5 houses. Suddenly everyone is a project manager because they buy to let and do up a house or houses. My burning issue is that I was born in south east London, grown up here all my life and have the pleasure of paying someone else's mortgage. I'm ok(ish) with that because at the end of the day I have a roof over my head.
But it just seems like the whole system is one that is set up in such a way, that if we are not careful, could be beyond redress in the not too distant (probably already is).
You made a good point about tuition fees above. My argument is that if someone completes their a-levels and wants to go into university and their parents can't contribute, then that person is saddled with debt from a young age. Yes, they have a chance that they can earn decent money in later life, but the jobs market is also competitive. 1000s of graduates flood the market every year, those that don't hit decent grad schemes are then left to take an entry level job, that doesn't pay as well. There is nothing wrong with that, but if you have then spent 30k on University and perhaps have to accept a lower starting salary, you're left asking, what was the point in the first place.
I know for a fact that there are people leaving uni coming onto the job market taking jobs that don't require a degree. Again, I'm not saying those jobs aren't worthwhile and I'm pleased the government promote apprenticeships in all sorts of sectors. IMO if you pay your taxes and contribute to society whatever job you do doesn't matter. I'm just linking the fact that whatever route, the chance of owning seems very far for a lot of people at the mo when you look at it like this.
And then, they say you've got to save for a pension because the state pension is on its knees.
As Seth says above, a combination of all this is very hard to fight against.
And BTL landlords are making a profit by charging a rent that more than covers that interest only mortgage.
We live in a global economy, thousands upon thousands up sticks and move to where they can find work & can afford. Just look at London now, how wonderfully diverse and enriched our culture is with a melting pot of different communities and outlooks.
Why should we sit by and moan about foreign investment? Why aren't we doing the same, moving abroad, finding better places to live & work, expanding our horizons and enriching other cultures with our own?
We seem to want to stick in our own bubble, stay with what we know, perhaps we should be as mobile as others that come to London and seek out opportunities in Europe, Americas, Asia etc, perhaps we'd be much better for it.
I have friends in San Francisco, New York, Abu Dhabi, Dubai, Perth, Brisbane, Budapest, Holland, Sweden....none would return.
You need to be more outward looking.....I've only lived in SE9 for 31 years....I may even move to Kent one day.....
What I am saying is that because of the fact house prices have rocketed in these areas, combined with other socioeconomic factors, government policy, greed, whatever you want to term it, buying a house in a place you've grown up and built a life in, is harder to achieve.
I have looked outward as well, I grew up in se4, but have also domiciled in se13 and se10 with a very brief stint in the ct postcode. If that's not expanding the bubble then I don't know what is!